Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Davanum Srinivas]

Bruno,

Here it is:  https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/go-and-containers (it
was on the first email of this thread)

Thanks,
Dims

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Bruno Morel <bmo...@internap.com> wrote:
> Still, I’m intrigued by this apparent duplication of efforts...
> esp since the discussions at the committee level tended to go the ‘inclusive’ 
> way toward other communities 
> (http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/community-leadership-charts-course-openstack/
>  section “Adjacent technologies”), can someone point me to the rational of 
> doing gophercloud work ?
>
> *No judging here :) *
> I’m guessing someone has done the work already but I can’t find the etherpad 
> Steve is talking about (when will those etherpad be searchable ? :P)
>
> Just trying to understand if we’re doing it for explicit, visible and logical 
> reasons and where to put our efforts if we need to participate in the ‘golang 
> for OpenStack’ efforts :)
>
> Tks
>
> Bruno
>
>
> On 2017-03-13, 8:13 PM, "Steve Gordon" <sgor...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Steve Gordon" <sgor...@redhat.com>
> > To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
> <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 8:11:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Clint Byrum" <cl...@fewbar.com>
> > > To: "openstack-dev" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 1:44:19 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go
> > >
> > > Excerpts from Davanum Srinivas's message of 2017-03-13 10:06:30 -0400:
> > > > Update:
> > > >
> > > > * We have a new git repo (EMPTY!) for the commons work -
> > > > http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-commons/
> > > > * The golang-client has little code, but lot of potential -
> > > > https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-client/
> > > >
> > >
> > > So, we're going to pretend gophercloud doesn't exist and continue to
> > > isolate ourselves from every other community?
> >
> > I'd add that gophercloud [1] is what the Kubernetes cloud provider 
> framework
> > implementation for OpenStack [2] uses to talk to the underlying cloud*. 
> This
> > would seem like a pretty good area for collaboration with other 
> communities
> > to expand on what is there rather than start over?
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/gophercloud/gophercloud
> > [2]
> > 
> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/tree/master/pkg/cloudprovider/providers/openstack
>
> Nevermind I see this train of thought also made its way to the etherpad...
>
> -Steve
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Bruno Morel]

Still, I’m intrigued by this apparent duplication of efforts... 
esp since the discussions at the committee level tended to go the ‘inclusive’ 
way toward other communities 
(http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/community-leadership-charts-course-openstack/
 section “Adjacent technologies”), can someone point me to the rational of 
doing gophercloud work ?

*No judging here :) *
I’m guessing someone has done the work already but I can’t find the etherpad 
Steve is talking about (when will those etherpad be searchable ? :P)

Just trying to understand if we’re doing it for explicit, visible and logical 
reasons and where to put our efforts if we need to participate in the ‘golang 
for OpenStack’ efforts :)

Tks

Bruno


On 2017-03-13, 8:13 PM, "Steve Gordon" <sgor...@redhat.com> wrote:

- Original Message -
> From: "Steve Gordon" <sgor...@redhat.com>
> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 8:11:34 PM
    > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go
> 
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Clint Byrum" <cl...@fewbar.com>
> > To: "openstack-dev" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 1:44:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go
> > 
> > Excerpts from Davanum Srinivas's message of 2017-03-13 10:06:30 -0400:
> > > Update:
> > > 
> > > * We have a new git repo (EMPTY!) for the commons work -
> > > http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-commons/
> > > * The golang-client has little code, but lot of potential -
> > > https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-client/
> > > 
> > 
> > So, we're going to pretend gophercloud doesn't exist and continue to
> > isolate ourselves from every other community?
> 
> I'd add that gophercloud [1] is what the Kubernetes cloud provider 
framework
> implementation for OpenStack [2] uses to talk to the underlying cloud*. 
This
> would seem like a pretty good area for collaboration with other 
communities
> to expand on what is there rather than start over?
> 
> -Steve
> 
> [1] https://github.com/gophercloud/gophercloud
> [2]
> 
https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/tree/master/pkg/cloudprovider/providers/openstack

Nevermind I see this train of thought also made its way to the etherpad...

-Steve

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Steve Gordon]

- Original Message -
> From: "Steve Gordon" <sgor...@redhat.com>
> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
> <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 8:11:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go
> 
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Clint Byrum" <cl...@fewbar.com>
> > To: "openstack-dev" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 1:44:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go
> > 
> > Excerpts from Davanum Srinivas's message of 2017-03-13 10:06:30 -0400:
> > > Update:
> > > 
> > > * We have a new git repo (EMPTY!) for the commons work -
> > > http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-commons/
> > > * The golang-client has little code, but lot of potential -
> > > https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-client/
> > > 
> > 
> > So, we're going to pretend gophercloud doesn't exist and continue to
> > isolate ourselves from every other community?
> 
> I'd add that gophercloud [1] is what the Kubernetes cloud provider framework
> implementation for OpenStack [2] uses to talk to the underlying cloud*. This
> would seem like a pretty good area for collaboration with other communities
> to expand on what is there rather than start over?
> 
> -Steve
> 
> [1] https://github.com/gophercloud/gophercloud
> [2]
> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/tree/master/pkg/cloudprovider/providers/openstack

Nevermind I see this train of thought also made its way to the etherpad...

-Steve

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Steve Gordon]

- Original Message -
> From: "Clint Byrum" <cl...@fewbar.com>
> To: "openstack-dev" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 1:44:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go
> 
> Excerpts from Davanum Srinivas's message of 2017-03-13 10:06:30 -0400:
> > Update:
> > 
> > * We have a new git repo (EMPTY!) for the commons work -
> > http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-commons/
> > * The golang-client has little code, but lot of potential -
> > https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-client/
> > 
> 
> So, we're going to pretend gophercloud doesn't exist and continue to
> isolate ourselves from every other community?

I'd add that gophercloud [1] is what the Kubernetes cloud provider framework 
implementation for OpenStack [2] uses to talk to the underlying cloud*. This 
would seem like a pretty good area for collaboration with other communities to 
expand on what is there rather than start over?

-Steve

[1] https://github.com/gophercloud/gophercloud
[2] 
https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/tree/master/pkg/cloudprovider/providers/openstack

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Davanum Srinivas's message of 2017-03-13 14:32:16 -0400:
> Clint,
> 
> There's some discussion on the etherpad, don't want to move that here.
> 

Ok. I don't see much that explains why. But either way, IMO this is
why an etherpad is a really bad place to have a discussion. Great for
recording notes _during_ a discussion. But it's not like I have a log
of what was said when by who.

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Davanum Srinivas]

Clint,

There's some discussion on the etherpad, don't want to move that here.

-- Dims

On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Clint Byrum  wrote:
> Excerpts from Davanum Srinivas's message of 2017-03-13 10:06:30 -0400:
>> Update:
>>
>> * We have a new git repo (EMPTY!) for the commons work -
>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-commons/
>> * The golang-client has little code, but lot of potential -
>> https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-client/
>>
>
> So, we're going to pretend gophercloud doesn't exist and continue to
> isolate ourselves from every other community?
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Davanum Srinivas's message of 2017-03-13 10:06:30 -0400:
> Update:
> 
> * We have a new git repo (EMPTY!) for the commons work -
> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-commons/
> * The golang-client has little code, but lot of potential -
> https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-client/
> 

So, we're going to pretend gophercloud doesn't exist and continue to
isolate ourselves from every other community?

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Davanum Srinivas]

Update:

* We have a new git repo (EMPTY!) for the commons work -
http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-commons/
* The golang-client has little code, but lot of potential -
https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/golang-client/

Anyone interested, please get cranking!

Oh, let's use #openstack-golang IRC channel to self-organize

Thanks,
Dims


On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Davanum Srinivas  wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Anyone interested? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/go-and-containers
>
> Thanks,
> Dims
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Michał Jastrzębski's message of 2017-03-09 11:23:17 -0800:
> Clint, I think it's good to find initial idea to work towards to
> create stuff like infrastructure (testing and such) around golang,
> code guidance, standards and so on. It takes first project to create
> all that stuff and it's good if it's bigger community effort. Next
> projects could just follow these standards really.
> 

I'm not sure I follow. There's already demand for golang infrastructure in
Designate and Swift, so I don't see why we wouldn't make sure our
infrastructure supports those.

> As for Kolla using golang - Kolla uses ansible and k8s today;) Or
> rather Kolla-ansible and Kolla-k8s uses Kolla. If you want to make
> Kolla-golang, you can...it just doesn't make any sense really (imho);)
> 

The etherpad made a veiled reference to Kolla wanting to do something in
Go. I was just making the point that I think deployment projects are
already other-language-based and so don't follow the same set of
constraints as the OpenStack project itself.

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Michał Jastrzębski]

Clint, I think it's good to find initial idea to work towards to
create stuff like infrastructure (testing and such) around golang,
code guidance, standards and so on. It takes first project to create
all that stuff and it's good if it's bigger community effort. Next
projects could just follow these standards really.

As for Kolla using golang - Kolla uses ansible and k8s today;) Or
rather Kolla-ansible and Kolla-k8s uses Kolla. If you want to make
Kolla-golang, you can...it just doesn't make any sense really (imho);)

On 7 March 2017 at 09:31, Clint Byrum  wrote:
> Excerpts from Hayes, Graham's message of 2017-03-07 14:19:02 +:
>> On 07/03/2017 13:22, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>> > Folks,
>> >
>> > Anyone interested? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/go-and-containers
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Dims
>> >
>>
>> The first thing that is required (according to the new guidelines) is
>> for there to be a technical reason we need to use go, and cannot use
>> python. [0]
>>
>> This was the major point thrown at designate when we asked for
>> permission - if there is now a golang project for the sake of
>> a golang project, that would seem at odds with these (brand new)
>> requirements.
>>
>> The only item in the linked etherpad that would fit that requirement
>> is the Go Common Lib, which is a requirement for any project who wants
>> to use go.
>>
>> Do we want to allow projects innovate, or do we just want Golang in
>> OpenStack now? I honestly cannot follow what is going on in this area.
>>
>
> There's a nasty assumption wrapped in that sentence that isn't quite
> fair. We've always wanted projects to innovate, but the choice of common
> language was entirely designed to put people in a box that was easier
> for operators to consume and debug.
>
> I don't see an actual real problem statement that takes operators and
> users into account in that etherpad*. IMO language bindings is a red
> herring, we have REST API's and they're not so bad that they have to
> be wrapped in convenience libs *cough*OaktreeShade*cough*.
>
> I'd really like to see *users* and/or *operators* be the focus of any
> efforts around Golang, or Lisp, or anything else we ship.
>
> Designate felt that the operators were better served by a Golang
> transfer daemon (IIRC). Hummingbird was created by Swift operators to
> deal with their IO concurrency problems. I _like_ those efforts (now
> that I understand them, which was not easy). But the etherpad kind of
> reads to me like "let's make Go things because container things".. maybe
> somebody can explain it to me like I'm 5?
>
>
> * Kolla is a deployment project, and imo, can do Golang the same way
>   openstack-ansible does ansible and puppet does puppet.
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Hayes, Graham's message of 2017-03-07 14:19:02 +:
> On 07/03/2017 13:22, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> > Folks,
> >
> > Anyone interested? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/go-and-containers
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dims
> >
> 
> The first thing that is required (according to the new guidelines) is
> for there to be a technical reason we need to use go, and cannot use
> python. [0]
> 
> This was the major point thrown at designate when we asked for
> permission - if there is now a golang project for the sake of
> a golang project, that would seem at odds with these (brand new)
> requirements.
> 
> The only item in the linked etherpad that would fit that requirement
> is the Go Common Lib, which is a requirement for any project who wants
> to use go.
> 
> Do we want to allow projects innovate, or do we just want Golang in
> OpenStack now? I honestly cannot follow what is going on in this area.
> 

There's a nasty assumption wrapped in that sentence that isn't quite
fair. We've always wanted projects to innovate, but the choice of common
language was entirely designed to put people in a box that was easier
for operators to consume and debug.

I don't see an actual real problem statement that takes operators and
users into account in that etherpad*. IMO language bindings is a red
herring, we have REST API's and they're not so bad that they have to
be wrapped in convenience libs *cough*OaktreeShade*cough*.

I'd really like to see *users* and/or *operators* be the focus of any
efforts around Golang, or Lisp, or anything else we ship.

Designate felt that the operators were better served by a Golang
transfer daemon (IIRC). Hummingbird was created by Swift operators to
deal with their IO concurrency problems. I _like_ those efforts (now
that I understand them, which was not easy). But the etherpad kind of
reads to me like "let's make Go things because container things".. maybe
somebody can explain it to me like I'm 5?


* Kolla is a deployment project, and imo, can do Golang the same way
  openstack-ansible does ansible and puppet does puppet.

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Hayes, Graham]

On 07/03/2017 13:22, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Anyone interested? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/go-and-containers
>
> Thanks,
> Dims
>

The first thing that is required (according to the new guidelines) is
for there to be a technical reason we need to use go, and cannot use
python. [0]

This was the major point thrown at designate when we asked for
permission - if there is now a golang project for the sake of
a golang project, that would seem at odds with these (brand new)
requirements.

The only item in the linked etherpad that would fit that requirement
is the Go Common Lib, which is a requirement for any project who wants
to use go.

Do we want to allow projects innovate, or do we just want Golang in
OpenStack now? I honestly cannot follow what is going on in this area.

0 - 
https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/new-language-requirements.html#step-1-use-case-analysis



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Trinath Somanchi]

+1 , please add me.

/Trinath

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>


From: Davanum Srinivas <dava...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 6:47:49 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: [openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

Folks,

Anyone interested? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/go-and-containers

Thanks,
Dims

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[openstack-dev] [all] Small steps for Go

[Davanum Srinivas]

Folks,

Anyone interested? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/go-and-containers

Thanks,
Dims

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