Re: [OpenStack-Infra] Zuul mailing lists

2018-01-09 Thread Jimmy Mcarthur 



Jeremy Stanley wrote:

I'd go further and credit it with much of the unnecessary perceived
division between developers and operators in the OpenStack
community. The proposal sounds great.
-- Jeremy Stanley

+1
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Re: [OpenStack-Infra] Zuul mailing lists

2018-01-09 Thread Jeremy Stanley 
On 2018-01-08 16:53:30 -0800 (-0800), Clark Boylan wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018, at 3:46 PM, James E. Blair wrote:
[...]
> > I'd like to create the following two lists to start:
> > 
> > zuul-annou...@lists.zuul-ci.org  --  A list for release
> > announcements and to disseminate information about job
> > definition changes (including information about the shared
> > zuul-jobs repos).
> > 
> > zuul-disc...@lists.zuul-ci.org  --  A list for general
> > discussion about using Zuul and development work.
> > 
> > Note in particular that, at the moment, I'm not proposing a
> > dev/user mailing list split.  Much of our dev work directly
> > impacts users and needs broad discussion.  Likewise, we're
> > better developers when we dive into real user problems.  So to
> > the extent possible, I'd like to avoid creating a split where
> > one isn't necessary.
> 
> +1. I think one of the things OpenStack has struggled with is
> we've set up separate lines of communication for devs, users, and
> ops so it is easier to miss conversations that should involve
> these various groups. And even when we accommodate that it ends up
> as a mess of cross posts.
[...]

I'd go further and credit it with much of the unnecessary perceived
division between developers and operators in the OpenStack
community. The proposal sounds great.
-- 
Jeremy Stanley


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Re: [OpenStack-Infra] Zuul mailing lists

2018-01-08 Thread Joshua Hesketh 
On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:46 AM, James E. Blair  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We recently completed the work needed to host mailing lists for projects
> at their own domains.  With our expanded focus in Zuul v3 on users
> beyond those related to the OpenStack project, now seems like a good
> time to create dedicated Zuul mailing lists.
>
> I'd like to create the following two lists to start:
>
> zuul-annou...@lists.zuul-ci.org  --  A list for release announcements
> and to disseminate information about job definition changes (including
> information about the shared zuul-jobs repos).
>
> zuul-disc...@lists.zuul-ci.org  --  A list for general discussion about
> using Zuul and development work.
>
> Note in particular that, at the moment, I'm not proposing a dev/user
> mailing list split.  Much of our dev work directly impacts users and
> needs broad discussion.  Likewise, we're better developers when we dive
> into real user problems.  So to the extent possible, I'd like to avoid
> creating a split where one isn't necessary.
>
> Of course, if that doesn't work out, or if circumstances change, we can
> add new lists as necessary.  It seems like the most conservative
> approach is to create only one discussion list and add more if needed.
>
> It's also worth noting that some of us wear multiple hats related to
> OpenStack and Zuul.  It will still be reasonable for folks to have
> Zuul-related discussions on this list, or openstack-dev, when they
> relate entirely to OpenStack's use of Zuul.  We might discuss adding new
> executors on openstack-infra, and we might promulgate a new role for
> working with devstack logs on openstack-dev.  Neither of those
> discussions need to happen on the new lists.  However, like any project
> used heavily by another, people involved in OpenStack with a significant
> interest in Zuul should subscribe to the new lists, so they can interact
> with the rest of the Zuul community.
>
> How does that sound?
>

Sounds good :-)


>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
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Re: [OpenStack-Infra] Zuul mailing lists

2018-01-08 Thread Clark Boylan 


On Mon, Jan 8, 2018, at 3:46 PM, James E. Blair wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We recently completed the work needed to host mailing lists for projects
> at their own domains.  With our expanded focus in Zuul v3 on users
> beyond those related to the OpenStack project, now seems like a good
> time to create dedicated Zuul mailing lists.
> 
> I'd like to create the following two lists to start:
> 
> zuul-annou...@lists.zuul-ci.org  --  A list for release announcements
> and to disseminate information about job definition changes (including
> information about the shared zuul-jobs repos).
> 
> zuul-disc...@lists.zuul-ci.org  --  A list for general discussion about
> using Zuul and development work.
> 
> Note in particular that, at the moment, I'm not proposing a dev/user
> mailing list split.  Much of our dev work directly impacts users and
> needs broad discussion.  Likewise, we're better developers when we dive
> into real user problems.  So to the extent possible, I'd like to avoid
> creating a split where one isn't necessary.

+1. I think one of the things OpenStack has struggled with is we've set up 
separate lines of communication for devs, users, and ops so it is easier to 
miss conversations that should involve these various groups. And even when we 
accommodate that it ends up as a mess of cross posts.

> 
> Of course, if that doesn't work out, or if circumstances change, we can
> add new lists as necessary.  It seems like the most conservative
> approach is to create only one discussion list and add more if needed.
> 
> It's also worth noting that some of us wear multiple hats related to
> OpenStack and Zuul.  It will still be reasonable for folks to have
> Zuul-related discussions on this list, or openstack-dev, when they
> relate entirely to OpenStack's use of Zuul.  We might discuss adding new
> executors on openstack-infra, and we might promulgate a new role for
> working with devstack logs on openstack-dev.  Neither of those
> discussions need to happen on the new lists.  However, like any project
> used heavily by another, people involved in OpenStack with a significant
> interest in Zuul should subscribe to the new lists, so they can interact
> with the rest of the Zuul community.
> 
> How does that sound?

Sounds good to me.

Clark

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[OpenStack-Infra] Zuul mailing lists

2018-01-08 Thread James E. Blair 
Hi,

We recently completed the work needed to host mailing lists for projects
at their own domains.  With our expanded focus in Zuul v3 on users
beyond those related to the OpenStack project, now seems like a good
time to create dedicated Zuul mailing lists.

I'd like to create the following two lists to start:

zuul-annou...@lists.zuul-ci.org  --  A list for release announcements
and to disseminate information about job definition changes (including
information about the shared zuul-jobs repos).

zuul-disc...@lists.zuul-ci.org  --  A list for general discussion about
using Zuul and development work.

Note in particular that, at the moment, I'm not proposing a dev/user
mailing list split.  Much of our dev work directly impacts users and
needs broad discussion.  Likewise, we're better developers when we dive
into real user problems.  So to the extent possible, I'd like to avoid
creating a split where one isn't necessary.

Of course, if that doesn't work out, or if circumstances change, we can
add new lists as necessary.  It seems like the most conservative
approach is to create only one discussion list and add more if needed.

It's also worth noting that some of us wear multiple hats related to
OpenStack and Zuul.  It will still be reasonable for folks to have
Zuul-related discussions on this list, or openstack-dev, when they
relate entirely to OpenStack's use of Zuul.  We might discuss adding new
executors on openstack-infra, and we might promulgate a new role for
working with devstack logs on openstack-dev.  Neither of those
discussions need to happen on the new lists.  However, like any project
used heavily by another, people involved in OpenStack with a significant
interest in Zuul should subscribe to the new lists, so they can interact
with the rest of the Zuul community.

How does that sound?

Thanks,

Jim

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