Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [LEDE-DEV] 18.06 Status?

[Daniel F. Dickinson]

On 2018-06-07 04:13 AM, Martin Schroeder wrote:
> How about you guys vote for a person. Make a list of candidates, mail
> it out to the list (people can add their own names if they wish). Then
> whoever gets voted in becomes the coordinator.
> 

Hauke seems to be the coordinator (I've seen him occasionally poking),
and others have been doing backports for the 17.xx.x point release, so I
image 18.06 will be later this month.  I think a lot of folks forget
that the majority of the OpenWrt developers work for a living, and not
doing openwrt, and unlike other projects there is not a real corporate
backing (and/or agenda) that drives what gets done and when.  For all I
made a lot of noise when I wasn't well, the developers deserve kudos for
doing *real* open source.  OpenWrt is not a corporate 'product',
although the devs have show definite signs of wanting better than
corporate product quality for this distro.  (I tend to get the chills
when I look at corporate GPL tarballs).

In a separate I'm hoping to make to do some quality (but *little* chunks
this time) contributions again; since the devs seem to be willing to let
bygones by bygones, and I'm doing better now (just have a lot on my plate).

Regards,

Daniel

> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:12 PM, Fernando Frediani  
> wrote:
>> I didn't mention forcing people at any point. Just having someone to be in
>> charge in order to organize certain things, get people's availability and
>> make more thing happen.
>>
>> With regards schedule the lack of one seems not doing much good, so having
>> one has the potential to improve things. And again, having a schedule
>> doesn't necessarily mean every single point will get done, but certainly
>> will get more attention and commitment from most of people around something
>> in common. It will not be a big thing if a feature was skipped.
>>
>> As mentioned in the other reply perhaps Release Coordinator could do this
>> job fine without changing much of the whole thing.
>>
>> Regards
>> Fernando
>>
>> On 05/05/2018 15:55, Alberto Bursi wrote:
>>>
>>> This isn't a job where you can force people to do anything.
>>>
>>> Also, I'm not a fan of half-assing or leaving out things for the sake of a
>>> schedule.
>>>
>>>



>>> -Alberto
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/05/2018 20:41, Fernando Frediani wrote:

 One characteristic from OpenWrt, different from other projects is the
 lack of a leader or a person who can gather others together, make some
 decisions or push for them to happen. If one doesn't like this title it can
 also be "Project Manager" or "Project Coordinator". This, in my view, makes
 a big difference for things to flow in time.

 Has anyone heard that saying: "A dog with many owners starves"

 Perhaps it is the time to adjust the Rules (https://openwrt.org/rules)
 and add something to make it exist in benefit of the project.

 Fernando

 On 05/05/2018 07:27, Jaap Buurman wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I feel like everybody is just waiting for everybody to agree what
> features we want in before coming up with the next step of picking a
> date. Obviously this isn't working out very well. Why not turn things
> around? Pick a date in a few weeks time on which the Master branch
> will be split to a 18.0X branch. If nobody complains before that date
> the branch goes on as planned. People can obviously get in the
> features they want before said date. If somebody deems a particular
> feature very important to be included in this branch, but feels like
> it will not be finished before said date, he/she can request a delay
> stating:
>
> -What he/she would like to include
> -Why this is so important to be included before the branch.
> -How much extra time this will need by proposing a new date
> -Perhaps a request for help implementing said change
>
> Should this proposal be accepted, we will reschedule the date from
> there. If the other people don't think it is important enough to
> postpone the release, the old date will stand. This way, we can simply
> move forward if nobody complains about a particular date instead of
> the waiting around for others that is going on right now. What does
> everybody else think of this idea? What seems like a reasonable date?
> And who would be willing to take on the task of splitting the branch
> at said date to make sure we'll be actually moving forward with the
> plan at said date?
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Jaap Buurman
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Eric Luehrsen 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 05/01/2018 10:47 AM, Hannu Nyman wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that the main source tree is in pretty good shape, so
>>> branching
>>> off the 18.0X rather soon might make sense
>>
>>
>> I would also think its time to branch 18.[something-soon], and rather
>> than
>> focus on work that 

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [LEDE-DEV] 18.06 Status?

[Martin Schroeder via openwrt-devel]

The sender domain has a DMARC Reject/Quarantine policy which disallows
sending mailing list messages using the original "From" header.

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automatically by the mailing list software.--- Begin Message ---
How about you guys vote for a person. Make a list of candidates, mail
it out to the list (people can add their own names if they wish). Then
whoever gets voted in becomes the coordinator.

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:12 PM, Fernando Frediani  wrote:
> I didn't mention forcing people at any point. Just having someone to be in
> charge in order to organize certain things, get people's availability and
> make more thing happen.
>
> With regards schedule the lack of one seems not doing much good, so having
> one has the potential to improve things. And again, having a schedule
> doesn't necessarily mean every single point will get done, but certainly
> will get more attention and commitment from most of people around something
> in common. It will not be a big thing if a feature was skipped.
>
> As mentioned in the other reply perhaps Release Coordinator could do this
> job fine without changing much of the whole thing.
>
> Regards
> Fernando
>
> On 05/05/2018 15:55, Alberto Bursi wrote:
>>
>> This isn't a job where you can force people to do anything.
>>
>> Also, I'm not a fan of half-assing or leaving out things for the sake of a
>> schedule.
>>
>>
>> -Alberto
>>
>>
>> On 05/05/2018 20:41, Fernando Frediani wrote:
>>>
>>> One characteristic from OpenWrt, different from other projects is the
>>> lack of a leader or a person who can gather others together, make some
>>> decisions or push for them to happen. If one doesn't like this title it can
>>> also be "Project Manager" or "Project Coordinator". This, in my view, makes
>>> a big difference for things to flow in time.
>>>
>>> Has anyone heard that saying: "A dog with many owners starves"
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is the time to adjust the Rules (https://openwrt.org/rules)
>>> and add something to make it exist in benefit of the project.
>>>
>>> Fernando
>>>
>>> On 05/05/2018 07:27, Jaap Buurman wrote:

 Hi all,

 I feel like everybody is just waiting for everybody to agree what
 features we want in before coming up with the next step of picking a
 date. Obviously this isn't working out very well. Why not turn things
 around? Pick a date in a few weeks time on which the Master branch
 will be split to a 18.0X branch. If nobody complains before that date
 the branch goes on as planned. People can obviously get in the
 features they want before said date. If somebody deems a particular
 feature very important to be included in this branch, but feels like
 it will not be finished before said date, he/she can request a delay
 stating:

 -What he/she would like to include
 -Why this is so important to be included before the branch.
 -How much extra time this will need by proposing a new date
 -Perhaps a request for help implementing said change

 Should this proposal be accepted, we will reschedule the date from
 there. If the other people don't think it is important enough to
 postpone the release, the old date will stand. This way, we can simply
 move forward if nobody complains about a particular date instead of
 the waiting around for others that is going on right now. What does
 everybody else think of this idea? What seems like a reasonable date?
 And who would be willing to take on the task of splitting the branch
 at said date to make sure we'll be actually moving forward with the
 plan at said date?

 Yours sincerely,

 Jaap Buurman

 On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Eric Luehrsen 
 wrote:
>
> On 05/01/2018 10:47 AM, Hannu Nyman wrote:
>>
>> I think that the main source tree is in pretty good shape, so
>> branching
>> off the 18.0X rather soon might make sense
>
>
> I would also think its time to branch 18.[something-soon], and rather
> than
> focus on work that needs yet to be completed, look to cut hardware and
> packages that are not ready for a release. There is always some heart
> ache
> when such decisions are made, but at a point those decisions do need to
> be
> made. Without an official release to punctuate both the core team and
> other
> packagers hard work, OpenWrt/LEDE could risk losing support from the
> community and its limited sponsorship. I imagine this project means
> something personally to the core team, so those risks should be
> considered.
>
> - Eric
>
>
> ___
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> lede-...@lists.infradead.org
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/lede-adm

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Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [LEDE-DEV] 18.06 Status?

[Martin Schroeder]

How about you guys vote for a person. Make a list of candidates, mail
it out to the list (people can add their own names if they wish). Then
whoever gets voted in becomes the coordinator.

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:12 PM, Fernando Frediani  wrote:
> I didn't mention forcing people at any point. Just having someone to be in
> charge in order to organize certain things, get people's availability and
> make more thing happen.
>
> With regards schedule the lack of one seems not doing much good, so having
> one has the potential to improve things. And again, having a schedule
> doesn't necessarily mean every single point will get done, but certainly
> will get more attention and commitment from most of people around something
> in common. It will not be a big thing if a feature was skipped.
>
> As mentioned in the other reply perhaps Release Coordinator could do this
> job fine without changing much of the whole thing.
>
> Regards
> Fernando
>
> On 05/05/2018 15:55, Alberto Bursi wrote:
>>
>> This isn't a job where you can force people to do anything.
>>
>> Also, I'm not a fan of half-assing or leaving out things for the sake of a
>> schedule.
>>
>>
>> -Alberto
>>
>>
>> On 05/05/2018 20:41, Fernando Frediani wrote:
>>>
>>> One characteristic from OpenWrt, different from other projects is the
>>> lack of a leader or a person who can gather others together, make some
>>> decisions or push for them to happen. If one doesn't like this title it can
>>> also be "Project Manager" or "Project Coordinator". This, in my view, makes
>>> a big difference for things to flow in time.
>>>
>>> Has anyone heard that saying: "A dog with many owners starves"
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is the time to adjust the Rules (https://openwrt.org/rules)
>>> and add something to make it exist in benefit of the project.
>>>
>>> Fernando
>>>
>>> On 05/05/2018 07:27, Jaap Buurman wrote:

 Hi all,

 I feel like everybody is just waiting for everybody to agree what
 features we want in before coming up with the next step of picking a
 date. Obviously this isn't working out very well. Why not turn things
 around? Pick a date in a few weeks time on which the Master branch
 will be split to a 18.0X branch. If nobody complains before that date
 the branch goes on as planned. People can obviously get in the
 features they want before said date. If somebody deems a particular
 feature very important to be included in this branch, but feels like
 it will not be finished before said date, he/she can request a delay
 stating:

 -What he/she would like to include
 -Why this is so important to be included before the branch.
 -How much extra time this will need by proposing a new date
 -Perhaps a request for help implementing said change

 Should this proposal be accepted, we will reschedule the date from
 there. If the other people don't think it is important enough to
 postpone the release, the old date will stand. This way, we can simply
 move forward if nobody complains about a particular date instead of
 the waiting around for others that is going on right now. What does
 everybody else think of this idea? What seems like a reasonable date?
 And who would be willing to take on the task of splitting the branch
 at said date to make sure we'll be actually moving forward with the
 plan at said date?

 Yours sincerely,

 Jaap Buurman

 On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Eric Luehrsen 
 wrote:
>
> On 05/01/2018 10:47 AM, Hannu Nyman wrote:
>>
>> I think that the main source tree is in pretty good shape, so
>> branching
>> off the 18.0X rather soon might make sense
>
>
> I would also think its time to branch 18.[something-soon], and rather
> than
> focus on work that needs yet to be completed, look to cut hardware and
> packages that are not ready for a release. There is always some heart
> ache
> when such decisions are made, but at a point those decisions do need to
> be
> made. Without an official release to punctuate both the core team and
> other
> packagers hard work, OpenWrt/LEDE could risk losing support from the
> community and its limited sponsorship. I imagine this project means
> something personally to the core team, so those risks should be
> considered.
>
> - Eric
>
>
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> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/lede-adm

 ___
 lede-adm mailing list
 lede-...@lists.infradead.org
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> 

Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [LEDE-DEV] 18.06 Status?

[Fernando Frediani]

I didn't mention forcing people at any point. Just having someone to be 
in charge in order to organize certain things, get people's availability 
and make more thing happen.


With regards schedule the lack of one seems not doing much good, so 
having one has the potential to improve things. And again, having a 
schedule doesn't necessarily mean every single point will get done, but 
certainly will get more attention and commitment from most of people 
around something in common. It will not be a big thing if a feature was 
skipped.


As mentioned in the other reply perhaps Release Coordinator could do 
this job fine without changing much of the whole thing.


Regards
Fernando

On 05/05/2018 15:55, Alberto Bursi wrote:

This isn't a job where you can force people to do anything.

Also, I'm not a fan of half-assing or leaving out things for the sake 
of a schedule.



-Alberto

On 05/05/2018 20:41, Fernando Frediani wrote:
One characteristic from OpenWrt, different from other projects is the 
lack of a leader or a person who can gather others together, make 
some decisions or push for them to happen. If one doesn't like this 
title it can also be "Project Manager" or "Project Coordinator". 
This, in my view, makes a big difference for things to flow in time.


Has anyone heard that saying: "A dog with many owners starves"

Perhaps it is the time to adjust the Rules 
(https://openwrt.org/rules) and add something to make it exist in 
benefit of the project.


Fernando

On 05/05/2018 07:27, Jaap Buurman wrote:

Hi all,

I feel like everybody is just waiting for everybody to agree what
features we want in before coming up with the next step of picking a
date. Obviously this isn't working out very well. Why not turn things
around? Pick a date in a few weeks time on which the Master branch
will be split to a 18.0X branch. If nobody complains before that date
the branch goes on as planned. People can obviously get in the
features they want before said date. If somebody deems a particular
feature very important to be included in this branch, but feels like
it will not be finished before said date, he/she can request a delay
stating:

-What he/she would like to include
-Why this is so important to be included before the branch.
-How much extra time this will need by proposing a new date
-Perhaps a request for help implementing said change

Should this proposal be accepted, we will reschedule the date from
there. If the other people don't think it is important enough to
postpone the release, the old date will stand. This way, we can simply
move forward if nobody complains about a particular date instead of
the waiting around for others that is going on right now. What does
everybody else think of this idea? What seems like a reasonable date?
And who would be willing to take on the task of splitting the branch
at said date to make sure we'll be actually moving forward with the
plan at said date?

Yours sincerely,

Jaap Buurman

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Eric Luehrsen 
 wrote:

On 05/01/2018 10:47 AM, Hannu Nyman wrote:
I think that the main source tree is in pretty good shape, so 
branching

off the 18.0X rather soon might make sense


I would also think its time to branch 18.[something-soon], and 
rather than

focus on work that needs yet to be completed, look to cut hardware and
packages that are not ready for a release. There is always some 
heart ache
when such decisions are made, but at a point those decisions do 
need to be
made. Without an official release to punctuate both the core team 
and other

packagers hard work, OpenWrt/LEDE could risk losing support from the
community and its limited sponsorship. I imagine this project means
something personally to the core team, so those risks should be 
considered.


- Eric


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Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [LEDE-DEV] 18.06 Status?

[Luiz Angelo Daros de Luca]

> One characteristic from OpenWrt, different from other projects is the
> lack of a leader or a person who can gather others together, make some
> decisions or push for them to happen. If one doesn't like this title it
> can also be "Project Manager" or "Project Coordinator". This, in my
> view, makes a big difference for things to flow in time.

Maybe we just need someone to be the Release Coordinator, that can be
responsible for a single
release. John seems to be doing that job for this one.

ML info about 18.xx release is scarce. Maybe something was discussed
elsewhere (IRC, forum, in person)

I really thing that a time based release would work better without a
central project leader.
The "when" would already be set. The "what" is what was already commited.
It could even be automated. If something is not commited yet, just wait for
the next release.
If we could do it more often (6 or 8 months), it would not matter too much
if a feature was skipped.

I have pending patches both on maillist (improves backup) and github (fixes
easy-rsa) that I would like
to have them commited (or even rejected). Most (if not all) pending patches
on github (77) or patchwork (44)
is from developers without commit access. They are potential future
developers that will keep the project
alive. I'm not specific talking about my patches but it would be kind to
encourage new devs to have their work
considered, even to say "NAK".

Regards,
---
  Luiz Angelo Daros de Luca
 luizl...@gmail.com
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Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [LEDE-DEV] 18.06 Status?

[Fernando Frediani]

One characteristic from OpenWrt, different from other projects is the 
lack of a leader or a person who can gather others together, make some 
decisions or push for them to happen. If one doesn't like this title it 
can also be "Project Manager" or "Project Coordinator". This, in my 
view, makes a big difference for things to flow in time.


Has anyone heard that saying: "A dog with many owners starves"

Perhaps it is the time to adjust the Rules (https://openwrt.org/rules) 
and add something to make it exist in benefit of the project.


Fernando

On 05/05/2018 07:27, Jaap Buurman wrote:

Hi all,

I feel like everybody is just waiting for everybody to agree what
features we want in before coming up with the next step of picking a
date. Obviously this isn't working out very well. Why not turn things
around? Pick a date in a few weeks time on which the Master branch
will be split to a 18.0X branch. If nobody complains before that date
the branch goes on as planned. People can obviously get in the
features they want before said date. If somebody deems a particular
feature very important to be included in this branch, but feels like
it will not be finished before said date, he/she can request a delay
stating:

-What he/she would like to include
-Why this is so important to be included before the branch.
-How much extra time this will need by proposing a new date
-Perhaps a request for help implementing said change

Should this proposal be accepted, we will reschedule the date from
there. If the other people don't think it is important enough to
postpone the release, the old date will stand. This way, we can simply
move forward if nobody complains about a particular date instead of
the waiting around for others that is going on right now. What does
everybody else think of this idea? What seems like a reasonable date?
And who would be willing to take on the task of splitting the branch
at said date to make sure we'll be actually moving forward with the
plan at said date?

Yours sincerely,

Jaap Buurman

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Eric Luehrsen  wrote:

On 05/01/2018 10:47 AM, Hannu Nyman wrote:

I think that the main source tree is in pretty good shape, so branching
off the 18.0X rather soon might make sense


I would also think its time to branch 18.[something-soon], and rather than
focus on work that needs yet to be completed, look to cut hardware and
packages that are not ready for a release. There is always some heart ache
when such decisions are made, but at a point those decisions do need to be
made. Without an official release to punctuate both the core team and other
packagers hard work, OpenWrt/LEDE could risk losing support from the
community and its limited sponsorship. I imagine this project means
something personally to the core team, so those risks should be considered.

- Eric


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Re: [OpenWrt-Devel] [LEDE-DEV] 18.06 Status?

[John Crispin]

On 05/05/18 12:27, Jaap Buurman wrote:

Hi all,

I feel like everybody is just waiting for everybody to agree what
features we want in before coming up with the next step of picking a
date. Obviously this isn't working out very well. Why not turn things
around? Pick a date in a few weeks time on which the Master branch
will be split to a 18.0X branch. If nobody complains before that date
the branch goes on as planned. People can obviously get in the
features they want before said date. If somebody deems a particular
feature very important to be included in this branch, but feels like
it will not be finished before said date, he/she can request a delay
stating:

-What he/she would like to include
-Why this is so important to be included before the branch.
-How much extra time this will need by proposing a new date
-Perhaps a request for help implementing said change

Should this proposal be accepted, we will reschedule the date from
there. If the other people don't think it is important enough to
postpone the release, the old date will stand. This way, we can simply
move forward if nobody complains about a particular date instead of
the waiting around for others that is going on right now. What does
everybody else think of this idea? What seems like a reasonable date?
And who would be willing to take on the task of splitting the branch
at said date to make sure we'll be actually moving forward with the
plan at said date?

Yours sincerely,

Jaap Buurman

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Eric Luehrsen  wrote:

On 05/01/2018 10:47 AM, Hannu Nyman wrote:

I think that the main source tree is in pretty good shape, so branching
off the 18.0X rather soon might make sense


I would also think its time to branch 18.[something-soon], and rather than
focus on work that needs yet to be completed, look to cut hardware and
packages that are not ready for a release. There is always some heart ache
when such decisions are made, but at a point those decisions do need to be
made. Without an official release to punctuate both the core team and other
packagers hard work, OpenWrt/LEDE could risk losing support from the
community and its limited sponsorship. I imagine this project means
something personally to the core team, so those risks should be considered.

- Eric


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we agreed already to branch on friday but delayed it till start of the 
week as we ran out of time before calling it a day.

    John
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