RE: RULE versus CHOOSE - sorry it's long
Title: RE: RULE versus CHOOSE - sorry it's long One more thing to consider, if you're using RBO, you may not be able to use lot of features added to oracle 8i. features like function based indexes, bitmap indexes, IOTs are applicable for CBO environment only. rgds amar -Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 5:41 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: RULE versus CHOOSE - sorry it's long Hi Vivek, comments inline. List, please correct me if I am wrong. -Original Message- From: VIVEK_SHARMA [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:56 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RULE versus CHOOSE Database = Oracle 8.1.7.0.0 on SunOS 5.6 . Current Database Size = 20 GB This is only a Test One the Live Production will be a BIGGER (100 GB) One . OPTIMIZER_MODE = RULE NO Statistics Exist Currently Qs.1 How does optimizer_mode=CHOOSE Compare with RULE ? [Lisa Koivu] Choose invokes the cost based optimizer (CBO). If the optimizer_goal = RULE, it is rule, period (RBO). Qs.2 Is there ANY Benefit of keeping optimizer_mode=CHOOSE WITHOUT having Any Statistics Existent on the Application Tables , Indexes ? [Lisa Koivu] Well, that equates to rule, I believe. However, if anyone does something like put statistics on an index somewhere and forget to delete them, and that index is used in a query, your optimizer will change to CBO and you may end up with unexpected query plans. I also believe that degree 1 will invoke CBO. (not exactly sure?) If Statistics are DELETED on ALL Objects , yet with optmizer_mode = CHOOSE , does it behave in Exactly the Same manner as having optmizer_mode set to RULE Or are there Still Some Advantages which can be Reaped ? [Lisa Koivu] Same as answer above. Qs.3 Are there any Disadvantages with Using RULE in 8.1.7.0 ? [Lisa Koivu] Can't comment specifically on that, I haven't had the opportunity to play with 8.1.7 Qs.4 In Choose mode are there any Commonly known Standard Important Statistics' Fields/Values which can be Looked at to understand why optimizer took a particular path ? What Causes a Path to be Chosen in CHOOSE , we are largely ignorant about . [Lisa Koivu] Read up on histograms and exactly what the statistics mean (DBA_TABLES, etc). With CBO it isn't always exactly clear why it did what it did - for example, I have tried in the past to eliminate all FTS's from a query. CBO did not like that, it wanted to FTS at least one table. That's one thing you will find in CBO - it will favor FTS's more so than RBO. NOTE - At a Customer's Database , Our Development Section Head wants to set optmizer_mode=RULE keep it so . His Reasons :- - The path of the optimizer is more predictable when set to RULE [Lisa Koivu] Well, yes. There is a published list of steps RBO will take to try to determine the query plan. - Any under-performance Issues would be Handled by Giving HINTS etc rather than Allowing the Optimizer to Choose / Compute it's own Path which may be a BAD One . [Lisa Koivu] Well, have you tried it? Some view hints as hard-coding. However, in some cases it is warranted. - A Correct Path being Taken Today may in Time get Automatically Changed to a Worse Path somewhere in future (with the Stats getting OLD etc.) . [Lisa Koivu] You avoid this by keeping your statistics fresh at all times. You may have to mess with the statistics for any skewed columns (again, this is histograms) but the bottom line is stale statistics mean sub-optimal query plans. I believe there's a package called DBMS_STATS that will monitor your objects for stale statistics. I don't know what the threshold is for determining if statistics are stale, I haven't investigated this package. However, there's also a school of thought that says ANY change to your data renders the statistics invalid, period. Also, deleting statistics from an object and following this step with analyzing the object renders much better behavior. Don't ask why... it's just another quirk (list, correct me if I am wrong) - Lastly his Team will Take Responsibility for Any Performance Issues arising out of a Code underperforming . [Lisa Koivu] Well, that's a challenge. Tuning your top ten bad statements should be an ongoing task... Are they qualified to do this? are there any SQL tuning experts on his team? Qs Are there Any Best practices Documents / Links on RULE vs. CHOOSE ? [Lisa Koivu] CBO is best suited for DSS environment, where FTS is common and is not viewed as evil. CBO has several features
RE: RULE versus CHOOSE - sorry it's long
Just some comment on following lines Another comment: I believe the 9i doc states that RBO is desupported. Gosh, I highly doubt it, I think Oracle Apps run RBO. But Oracle has been saying for a long time that RBO is going away. Oracle themselves have shifted from RBO to CBO beginning with Oracle Applications release 11i . So there shouldn't be major hassle dessuporting RBO from 9i onwards. HTH, Rajesh OCDBA 88i -Original Message- From: Koivu, Lisa [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:14 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; VIVEK_SHARMA Subject: RE: RULE versus CHOOSE - sorry it's long Hi Vivek, comments inline. List, please correct me if I am wrong. -Original Message- From: VIVEK_SHARMA [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:56 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RULE versus CHOOSE Database = Oracle 8.1.7.0.0 on SunOS 5.6 . Current Database Size = 20 GB This is only a Test One the Live Production will be a BIGGER (100 GB) One . OPTIMIZER_MODE = RULE NO Statistics Exist Currently Qs.1 How does optimizer_mode=CHOOSE Compare with RULE ? [Lisa Koivu] Choose invokes the cost based optimizer (CBO). If the optimizer_goal = RULE, it is rule, period (RBO). Qs.2 Is there ANY Benefit of keeping optimizer_mode=CHOOSE WITHOUT having Any Statistics Existent on the Application Tables , Indexes ? [Lisa Koivu] Well, that equates to rule, I believe. However, if anyone does something like put statistics on an index somewhere and forget to delete them, and that index is used in a query, your optimizer will change to CBO and you may end up with unexpected query plans. I also believe that degree 1 will invoke CBO. (not exactly sure?) If Statistics are DELETED on ALL Objects , yet with optmizer_mode = CHOOSE , does it behave in Exactly the Same manner as having optmizer_mode set to RULE Or are there Still Some Advantages which can be Reaped ? [Lisa Koivu] Same as answer above. Qs.3 Are there any Disadvantages with Using RULE in 8.1.7.0 ? [Lisa Koivu] Can't comment specifically on that, I haven't had the opportunity to play with 8.1.7 Qs.4 In Choose mode are there any Commonly known Standard Important Statistics' Fields/Values which can be Looked at to understand why optimizer took a particular path ? What Causes a Path to be Chosen in CHOOSE , we are largely ignorant about . [Lisa Koivu] Read up on histograms and exactly what the statistics mean (DBA_TABLES, etc). With CBO it isn't always exactly clear why it did what it did - for example, I have tried in the past to eliminate all FTS's from a query. CBO did not like that, it wanted to FTS at least one table. That's one thing you will find in CBO - it will favor FTS's more so than RBO. NOTE - At a Customer's Database , Our Development Section Head wants to set optmizer_mode=RULE keep it so . His Reasons :- - The path of the optimizer is more predictable when set to RULE [Lisa Koivu] Well, yes. There is a published list of steps RBO will take to try to determine the query plan. - Any under-performance Issues would be Handled by Giving HINTS etc rather than Allowing the Optimizer to Choose / Compute it's own Path which may be a BAD One . [Lisa Koivu] Well, have you tried it? Some view hints as hard-coding. However, in some cases it is warranted. - A Correct Path being Taken Today may in Time get Automatically Changed to a Worse Path somewhere in future (with the Stats getting OLD etc.) . [Lisa Koivu] You avoid this by keeping your statistics fresh at all times. You may have to mess with the statistics for any skewed columns (again, this is histograms) but the bottom line is stale statistics mean sub-optimal query plans. I believe there's a package called DBMS_STATS that will monitor your objects for stale statistics. I don't know what the threshold is for determining if statistics are stale, I haven't investigated this package. However, there's also a school of thought that says ANY change to your data renders the statistics invalid, period. Also, deleting statistics from an object and following this step with analyzing the object renders much better behavior. Don't ask why... it's just another quirk (list, correct me if I am wrong) - Lastly his Team will Take Responsibility for Any Performance Issues arising out of a Code underperforming . [Lisa Koivu] Well, that's a challenge. Tuning your top ten bad statements should be an ongoing task... Are they qualified to do this? are there any SQL tuning experts on his team? Qs Are there Any Best practices Documents / Links on RULE vs. CHOOSE ? [Lisa Koivu] CBO is best suited for DSS environment, where FTS is common and is not viewed as evil.
9i New Features
I thought this would help all in becoming familiar with 9i DB ... http://technet.oracle.com/products/oracle9i/daily/content.html Here you can see one new feature of Oracle 9i on daily basis.. HTH, Rajesh -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rajesh Dayal INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products
And the other side of the coin (I feel like playing devil's advocate here) there are lots of truly savvy, brilliant IT people, who choose IT as their career, who know nothing about the business side of the process. I don't care how beautifully you code, if the program is not useful or usable by the end user, it's junk. We have a brilliant programmer here, who doesn't give a damn about the implications of what he does or the end user. I have sat and listened to him make fun of the business manager because she is concerned about the impact of what we do on the ultimate end user, our website visitors. And I have wanted to smack him more often than not. I got into programming accidentally on purpose, I originally meant to be an English or math teacher. looking forward at the prospect of no jobs, I choose something else that had been fun -- programming. I haven't regretted my choice but perhaps the original leaning means that I tend to see BOTH aspects of what I'm doing. Rachel From: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:30:20 -0800 On Friday 06 July 2001 08:20, paquette stephane wrote: In the real life, the development is done by people with a medium knowledge of SQL, a weak knowledge of tuning and the rdbms and with 3-4 years of experience. I have to admit, we had the same concern with the project we were using it on. Several people in the classes were struggling with stuff that was easy. It's my opinion that many people in IT were in the business side first, and eventually became IT folks because they had such a good understanding of the business processes and appeared to be computer savvy. In many cases the savvy exhibited by a talented power user does not translate well into the kind of skills, talent, perseverance and motivation required to have a good understanding of low level application processes. These people came into IT by accident. I'm here on purpose. I think it makes a big difference in many cases as to how successful they will be. There are of course exceptions, but I've seen a lot of people like this. So often the problems in IT are not technology problems, but people problems. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products
Not really devil's advocate, you're absolutely right. A good IT person needs to understand the business, though maybe not to the point of actually being able to do the other persons job, just as a good business person needs to understand the Informatation Systems being used to perform his or her job, though not necessarily well enough to create that system. Too many people on both sides of that coin lack the appropriate knowledge to be really effective at their jobs. Jared On Saturday 07 July 2001 05:40, Rachel Carmichael wrote: And the other side of the coin (I feel like playing devil's advocate here) there are lots of truly savvy, brilliant IT people, who choose IT as their career, who know nothing about the business side of the process. I don't care how beautifully you code, if the program is not useful or usable by the end user, it's junk. We have a brilliant programmer here, who doesn't give a damn about the implications of what he does or the end user. I have sat and listened to him make fun of the business manager because she is concerned about the impact of what we do on the ultimate end user, our website visitors. And I have wanted to smack him more often than not. I got into programming accidentally on purpose, I originally meant to be an English or math teacher. looking forward at the prospect of no jobs, I choose something else that had been fun -- programming. I haven't regretted my choice but perhaps the original leaning means that I tend to see BOTH aspects of what I'm doing. Rachel From: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:30:20 -0800 On Friday 06 July 2001 08:20, paquette stephane wrote: In the real life, the development is done by people with a medium knowledge of SQL, a weak knowledge of tuning and the rdbms and with 3-4 years of experience. I have to admit, we had the same concern with the project we were using it on. Several people in the classes were struggling with stuff that was easy. It's my opinion that many people in IT were in the business side first, and eventually became IT folks because they had such a good understanding of the business processes and appeared to be computer savvy. In many cases the savvy exhibited by a talented power user does not translate well into the kind of skills, talent, perseverance and motivation required to have a good understanding of low level application processes. These people came into IT by accident. I'm here on purpose. I think it makes a big difference in many cases as to how successful they will be. There are of course exceptions, but I've seen a lot of people like this. So often the problems in IT are not technology problems, but people problems. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE: RULE versus CHOOSE
Vivek: Skewed data is data that is not evenly distributed in a column. Let me try to explain. Let's say you have a shipping company that does business throughout the US (in all 50 states) and you have a shipping table with address to customer that has a STATE column with the 2 letter state abbreviation as part of their address. You have done business in all 50 states, but most of your business comes from the 6 states that are in your region of the country. Therefore, statistically speaking, those 6 state abbreviations are represented an abnormally high number of times; they may represent as much as 80% of all the shipping orders. Without evidence to the contrary, the CBO assumes evenly distributed data when it works. This would mean, for the purposes of our example, that the CBO would assume that each state is represented 2% of the time and that these 6 states taken together would represent 12% of the total, not 60%. So, let's say I run a query selecting all the ordered shipped to one of those states. Something like select * from orders where state='NY'. Now, the CBO is going to assume that the state 'NY' represents 2% of the total orders on average and do use the index on the state column. In fact, however, much of our business comes from NY and it represents 35% of all the orders. So, the CBO should go for a full table scan. But it doesn't know that--it can only assume an even distribution of the data from the normal statistics collected. A histogram on the state column would provide the CBO with the additional information it needs to know that, in this case, the expected number of rows to return from the query would represent a large percentage of the total number of rows and that it should do a full table scan. So, as has been said earlier, you want to look for data in indexed columns that are used in where clauses as literal predicates where the data is not evenly distributed in the column. These generally make good candidates for histograms. Hope this makes sense. -- Jon Walthour, OCDBA Oracle DBA Cincinnati, Ohio - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:28 PM Can you possibly Detail what you mean by Skewed Data ? -Original Message- From: Jon Walthour [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 8:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: RULE versus CHOOSE Tom: I never did any official benchmark studies, per se. I studied the CBO/histograms about 4 months ago when we were converting an app over from Oracle 7 to 8i. The new version of the app had queries that were very different from its earlier version and so performance on 8i as compared to 7 was dramatically worse. Of course, the app owners blamed the database. In the course of my defense of the db, I discovered that the data (being primarily composed of case studies) was severely skewed to the more recent dates (i.e., the further back you went, the sparser the number of cases). I discovered that the optimizer was doing a lot of range scans for queries when it should have been doing full table scans according to the CBO thresholds. Histograms on certain date fields throughout the schema dropped times on certain large report queries from 30 minutes to under 2. That's all I know. I can't give you an hard empirical evidence, just anecdotal evidence that, when properly used, histograms do seem to have dramatic impacts. -- Jon Walthour, OCDBA Oracle DBA Computer Horizons Cincinnati, Ohio --- Original Message --- From: Terrian, Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/6/01 9:20:24 AM Jon, Great write up. Several times you mentioned creating Histograms for skewed data distributions. I am just curious if you have ever studied the performance impact with and without them? We used to maintain histograms but when we studied the performance impact (with and without them) we determined that there was very little benefit with histograms. The down side with them is that they drastically increased the amount of time it took to analyze the tables at night. We decided to do without them. Have you ever studied their benefits verse drawbacks? Tom Tom Terrian Oracle DBA WPAFB - DAASC [EMAIL PROTECTED] 937-656-3844 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: VIVEK_SHARMA INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for
RE: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products
This is very true. Before coming to IT, I was in the field of nuclear physics. I know very little about business nor do I pretend to be a business person on TV. I first started in IT as a programmer, and was actually very good at it. My problem was that I did not like the business side. After those years of working in science, to have to listen to the illogical business nonsense was hard for me to do. Then I had the opportunity to start doing DBA stuff and really liked it. Now I am a full time DBA, that does little if anything with end users(YES) and deals mainly with developers. I get to do lots of reading and research on Oracle, SQL Server and DB2, but more importantly, I now get near 100% of my time for my databases. This is good!! But I do realize that we also have to have people like Rachel that have a liking for the dark side of IT, that is end users. :o) Dave -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L And the other side of the coin (I feel like playing devil's advocate here) there are lots of truly savvy, brilliant IT people, who choose IT as their career, who know nothing about the business side of the process. I don't care how beautifully you code, if the program is not useful or usable by the end user, it's junk. We have a brilliant programmer here, who doesn't give a damn about the implications of what he does or the end user. I have sat and listened to him make fun of the business manager because she is concerned about the impact of what we do on the ultimate end user, our website visitors. And I have wanted to smack him more often than not. I got into programming accidentally on purpose, I originally meant to be an English or math teacher. looking forward at the prospect of no jobs, I choose something else that had been fun -- programming. I haven't regretted my choice but perhaps the original leaning means that I tend to see BOTH aspects of what I'm doing. Rachel From: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:30:20 -0800 On Friday 06 July 2001 08:20, paquette stephane wrote: In the real life, the development is done by people with a medium knowledge of SQL, a weak knowledge of tuning and the rdbms and with 3-4 years of experience. I have to admit, we had the same concern with the project we were using it on. Several people in the classes were struggling with stuff that was easy. It's my opinion that many people in IT were in the business side first, and eventually became IT folks because they had such a good understanding of the business processes and appeared to be computer savvy. In many cases the savvy exhibited by a talented power user does not translate well into the kind of skills, talent, perseverance and motivation required to have a good understanding of low level application processes. These people came into IT by accident. I'm here on purpose. I think it makes a big difference in many cases as to how successful they will be. There are of course exceptions, but I've seen a lot of people like this. So often the problems in IT are not technology problems, but people problems. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego,
Importing data from dump exported with different character set
Hi All I have been given the task to export the data from the database which has the character set of USASCII7 and import it into Databse with UTF8 character. However when I try to this the import fails with error. I also searched oracle mannual but was unable to find any relevant information. Can anyone please tell me how to accomplish this task Thanks and Regards Brijesh __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Brijesh Lal INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products
But I do realize that we also have to have people like Rachel that have a liking for the dark side of IT, that is end users. :o) It's more generic than that... I like people. Why else would I have considered a job teaching? I make the ultimate end user for testing. I'm not what they call an 'early adopter' (someone who is willing to work with version -1.5) I'm not interested (usually) in opening up the hood and looking around the engine. All I want is for the product to do what it said it will do. And I have little or no patience to wait for the webpage to build (you know those annoying people who hit stop and then reload and stop and then reload? that's me). I'm practical, not theoretical. In fact, when I would write with Marlene, we'd call ourselves the theoretician (her) and the technician (me). She'd come up with lots of what if and I'd just want to make it work in the real world. So if I can't deal with it, then most of the rest of the world won't like it either. From: Farnsworth, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 05:50:19 -0800 This is very true. Before coming to IT, I was in the field of nuclear physics. I know very little about business nor do I pretend to be a business person on TV. I first started in IT as a programmer, and was actually very good at it. My problem was that I did not like the business side. After those years of working in science, to have to listen to the illogical business nonsense was hard for me to do. Then I had the opportunity to start doing DBA stuff and really liked it. Now I am a full time DBA, that does little if anything with end users(YES) and deals mainly with developers. I get to do lots of reading and research on Oracle, SQL Server and DB2, but more importantly, I now get near 100% of my time for my databases. This is good!! But I do realize that we also have to have people like Rachel that have a liking for the dark side of IT, that is end users. :o) Dave -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L And the other side of the coin (I feel like playing devil's advocate here) there are lots of truly savvy, brilliant IT people, who choose IT as their career, who know nothing about the business side of the process. I don't care how beautifully you code, if the program is not useful or usable by the end user, it's junk. We have a brilliant programmer here, who doesn't give a damn about the implications of what he does or the end user. I have sat and listened to him make fun of the business manager because she is concerned about the impact of what we do on the ultimate end user, our website visitors. And I have wanted to smack him more often than not. I got into programming accidentally on purpose, I originally meant to be an English or math teacher. looking forward at the prospect of no jobs, I choose something else that had been fun -- programming. I haven't regretted my choice but perhaps the original leaning means that I tend to see BOTH aspects of what I'm doing. Rachel From: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:30:20 -0800 On Friday 06 July 2001 08:20, paquette stephane wrote: In the real life, the development is done by people with a medium knowledge of SQL, a weak knowledge of tuning and the rdbms and with 3-4 years of experience. I have to admit, we had the same concern with the project we were using it on. Several people in the classes were struggling with stuff that was easy. It's my opinion that many people in IT were in the business side first, and eventually became IT folks because they had such a good understanding of the business processes and appeared to be computer savvy. In many cases the savvy exhibited by a talented power user does not translate well into the kind of skills, talent, perseverance and motivation required to have a good understanding of low level application processes. These people came into IT by accident. I'm here on purpose. I think it makes a big difference in many cases as to how successful they will be. There are of course exceptions, but I've seen a lot of people like this. So often the problems in IT are not technology problems, but people problems. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
Re: Importing data from dump exported with different character set
Brijesh, What are the Oracle versions you're exporting from and import into? UTF8 is a superset of US7ASCII, so you shouldn't be having problems. What error are you receiving? If you can't get it to work, can you redo the export? There are several ways to change character sets, which are documented on OTN and Metalink. Most involve changing the NLS_LANG for the session (import or export) but there was an interesting piece on editing the export file to change the reported character set last month on the list. Go to: http://www.unal-bilisim.com/qa/discus/messages/33/34.html?991400274 for a précis on the procedure, and check out the various Metalink references. If you're going to edit the export file, you MUST use a binary editor. Brijesh Lal wrote: Hi All I have been given the task to export the data from the database which has the character set of USASCII7 and import it into Databse with UTF8 character. However when I try to this the import fails with error. I also searched oracle mannual but was unable to find any relevant information. Can anyone please tell me how to accomplish this task Thanks and Regards Brijesh __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Brijesh Lal INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: David A. Barbour INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products
Sometimes it's not the programmer fault but the managers' fault. They do not invlove the team including the programmers in the analysis cycle of the project and when the implimentation starts they are the last ones to know any thing about the business part of the project. Regards, Waleed -Original Message- To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: 7/7/01 9:30 AM Not really devil's advocate, you're absolutely right. A good IT person needs to understand the business, though maybe not to the point of actually being able to do the other persons job, just as a good business person needs to understand the Informatation Systems being used to perform his or her job, though not necessarily well enough to create that system. Too many people on both sides of that coin lack the appropriate knowledge to be really effective at their jobs. Jared On Saturday 07 July 2001 05:40, Rachel Carmichael wrote: And the other side of the coin (I feel like playing devil's advocate here) there are lots of truly savvy, brilliant IT people, who choose IT as their career, who know nothing about the business side of the process. I don't care how beautifully you code, if the program is not useful or usable by the end user, it's junk. We have a brilliant programmer here, who doesn't give a damn about the implications of what he does or the end user. I have sat and listened to him make fun of the business manager because she is concerned about the impact of what we do on the ultimate end user, our website visitors. And I have wanted to smack him more often than not. I got into programming accidentally on purpose, I originally meant to be an English or math teacher. looking forward at the prospect of no jobs, I choose something else that had been fun -- programming. I haven't regretted my choice but perhaps the original leaning means that I tend to see BOTH aspects of what I'm doing. Rachel From: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:30:20 -0800 On Friday 06 July 2001 08:20, paquette stephane wrote: In the real life, the development is done by people with a medium knowledge of SQL, a weak knowledge of tuning and the rdbms and with 3-4 years of experience. I have to admit, we had the same concern with the project we were using it on. Several people in the classes were struggling with stuff that was easy. It's my opinion that many people in IT were in the business side first, and eventually became IT folks because they had such a good understanding of the business processes and appeared to be computer savvy. In many cases the savvy exhibited by a talented power user does not translate well into the kind of skills, talent, perseverance and motivation required to have a good understanding of low level application processes. These people came into IT by accident. I'm here on purpose. I think it makes a big difference in many cases as to how successful they will be. There are of course exceptions, but I've seen a lot of people like this. So often the problems in IT are not technology problems, but people problems. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access /
Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products
Well, I'll agree that the manager can certainly help the programmers. But a programmer can learn the business from the users without any help from the manager. It's motivation thing. Most of the responsibility to learn the business you are in lies with you as an individual. Get to know people, ask qeustions, help them out with their problems. You learn what they do, they learn what you do. Since you're willing to help them, they're willing to help you. I don't buy into blaming the manager for things I can control. Jared On Saturday 07 July 2001 13:15, Khedr, Waleed wrote: Sometimes it's not the programmer fault but the managers' fault. They do not invlove the team including the programmers in the analysis cycle of the project and when the implimentation starts they are the last ones to know any thing about the business part of the project. Regards, Waleed -Original Message- To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: 7/7/01 9:30 AM Not really devil's advocate, you're absolutely right. A good IT person needs to understand the business, though maybe not to the point of actually being able to do the other persons job, just as a good business person needs to understand the Informatation Systems being used to perform his or her job, though not necessarily well enough to create that system. Too many people on both sides of that coin lack the appropriate knowledge to be really effective at their jobs. Jared On Saturday 07 July 2001 05:40, Rachel Carmichael wrote: And the other side of the coin (I feel like playing devil's advocate here) there are lots of truly savvy, brilliant IT people, who choose IT as their career, who know nothing about the business side of the process. I don't care how beautifully you code, if the program is not useful or usable by the end user, it's junk. We have a brilliant programmer here, who doesn't give a damn about the implications of what he does or the end user. I have sat and listened to him make fun of the business manager because she is concerned about the impact of what we do on the ultimate end user, our website visitors. And I have wanted to smack him more often than not. I got into programming accidentally on purpose, I originally meant to be an English or math teacher. looking forward at the prospect of no jobs, I choose something else that had been fun -- programming. I haven't regretted my choice but perhaps the original leaning means that I tend to see BOTH aspects of what I'm doing. Rachel From: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Learning Curve for Informatica ETL Products Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:30:20 -0800 On Friday 06 July 2001 08:20, paquette stephane wrote: In the real life, the development is done by people with a medium knowledge of SQL, a weak knowledge of tuning and the rdbms and with 3-4 years of experience. I have to admit, we had the same concern with the project we were using it on. Several people in the classes were struggling with stuff that was easy. It's my opinion that many people in IT were in the business side first, and eventually became IT folks because they had such a good understanding of the business processes and appeared to be computer savvy. In many cases the savvy exhibited by a talented power user does not translate well into the kind of skills, talent, perseverance and motivation required to have a good understanding of low level application processes. These people came into IT by accident. I'm here on purpose. I think it makes a big difference in many cases as to how successful they will be. There are of course exceptions, but I've seen a lot of people like this. So often the problems in IT are not technology problems, but people problems. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
HP9000/HP-UX/8.1.5 System Move
Hi DBA's: We just moved some instances from an HP K220 to a new L2000. Same O/S, same version of the o/s, same Oracle. When I run svrmgrl, I get a message I've never seen before: oracle8 svrmgrl Oracle Server Manager Release 3.1.5.0.0 - Production (c) Copyright 1997, Oracle Corporation. All Rights Reserved. Warning: Entry/Exit code is optimized. Cannot restore context (UNWIND 22) Warning: Entry/Exit code is optimized. Cannot restore context (UNWIND 22) ORA-03113: end-of-file on communication channel SVRMGR Anybody know what this means? I've run the relink program on everything but the precompilers (cause it blows there). Any ideas? I'm gonna reinstall Oracle and try again, but I'd like to know if I'm swatting a flea with a sledgehammer. Thanx, Mike --- === Michael P. Vergara | I've got a PBS mind in an MTV world Oracle DBA | Guidant Corporation | -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: HP9000/HP-UX/8.1.5 System Move
Michael: Some things to consider: 1. If you're using MTS, your hostname is probably too long in the MTS_LISTENER_ADDRESS init.ora parameter. Use the IP address for the host value for this parameter. 2. If you're using HP-UX 64-bit and Oracle is 32-bit, you may need to reduce your SHMMAX kernel parameter. For that matter, you may want to check on all your kernel parameters and make sure they match your other machine. I've had this problem before (HP-UX 11.0 64-bit and Oracle 8i 32-bit) and it was something to do with kernel parameters not being set correctly. That's all I can think of right now. See if either of these ideas work for you. -- Jon Walthour, OCDBA Oracle DBA Cincinnati, Ohio - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:40 PM Hi DBA's: We just moved some instances from an HP K220 to a new L2000. Same O/S, same version of the o/s, same Oracle. When I run svrmgrl, I get a message I've never seen before: oracle8 svrmgrl Oracle Server Manager Release 3.1.5.0.0 - Production (c) Copyright 1997, Oracle Corporation. All Rights Reserved. Warning: Entry/Exit code is optimized. Cannot restore context (UNWIND 22) Warning: Entry/Exit code is optimized. Cannot restore context (UNWIND 22) ORA-03113: end-of-file on communication channel SVRMGR Anybody know what this means? I've run the relink program on everything but the precompilers (cause it blows there). Any ideas? I'm gonna reinstall Oracle and try again, but I'd like to know if I'm swatting a flea with a sledgehammer. Thanx, Mike --- === Michael P. Vergara | I've got a PBS mind in an MTV world Oracle DBA | Guidant Corporation | -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jon Walthour INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: HP9000/HP-UX/8.1.5 System Move
Jon: Thanks for the help. Another lister e-mailed me directly with the same suggestion about kernel parameters. I scanned MetaLink (it was up! Yowza!) and found a note about reducing SHMMAX. It was set to 16G on the new box, and since we just moved the Oracle binaries from the 'K' to the 'L' we have the 32-bit code. We brought SHMMAX down to about 1.75GB and the instances started OK. Thanks for the assist! Mike --- === Michael P. Vergara | I've got a PBS mind in an MTV world Oracle DBA | Guidant Corporation | -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Michael: Some things to consider: 1. If you're using MTS, your hostname is probably too long in the MTS_LISTENER_ADDRESS init.ora parameter. Use the IP address for the host value for this parameter. 2. If you're using HP-UX 64-bit and Oracle is 32-bit, you may need to reduce your SHMMAX kernel parameter. For that matter, you may want to check on all your kernel parameters and make sure they match your other machine. I've had this problem before (HP-UX 11.0 64-bit and Oracle 8i 32-bit) and it was something to do with kernel parameters not being set correctly. That's all I can think of right now. See if either of these ideas work for you. -- Jon Walthour, OCDBA Oracle DBA Cincinnati, Ohio - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:40 PM Hi DBA's: We just moved some instances from an HP K220 to a new L2000. Same O/S, same version of the o/s, same Oracle. When I run svrmgrl, I get a message I've never seen before: oracle8 svrmgrl Oracle Server Manager Release 3.1.5.0.0 - Production (c) Copyright 1997, Oracle Corporation. All Rights Reserved. Warning: Entry/Exit code is optimized. Cannot restore context (UNWIND 22) Warning: Entry/Exit code is optimized. Cannot restore context (UNWIND 22) ORA-03113: end-of-file on communication channel SVRMGR Anybody know what this means? I've run the relink program on everything but the precompilers (cause it blows there). Any ideas? I'm gonna reinstall Oracle and try again, but I'd like to know if I'm swatting a flea with a sledgehammer. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
