RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Actually I have done much the same as Joe. I run RedHat 7.3, Oracle9i for Linux, OpenOffice, and Ximian Evolution (www.ximian.com). I have a Windows box that I sync my Handspring with to get my Exchange schedule and then use gpilotd to sync with Evolution and run my calendar off of Linux. I use IMAP to connect Evolution to my Exchange folders. The exchange stuff is just so I can share with the company. Once the company upgrades to Exchange 2000 I will investigate using Ximian Connector for Exchange and get rid of my Windows box completely. Rodd Holman On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 11:09, Orr, Steve wrote: Wow Joe, sounds like a religious conviction... I'm impressed because I'm of the same persuasion but I'm not quite so pious/zealous and am still somewhat enslaved to the M$ beast/devil because of the company usage of Exchange with MS Outlook for Calendar and workflow. I run Linux on the laptop via VMWare but because of the Outlook dependency, running Pine, Mozilla or whatever is not a viable email solution for me. Sigh... Having run Oracle/Linux servers in production for over a year now I conclude that the platform is not just viable but is promising. Unix, Linux, and Windows are part the present with significant installed bases so that also means they will be part of the future. How long that future will be and how much future presence there will be is anybody's guess I guess. Good and Evil abound. :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thats were you're wrong, i dont use microsoft products, all of my development and presentations that i make are non microsoft products. for IOUG presentations, requirement is to put them in msword and powerpoint, i convert from star office to those formatrs and have someone proof them so i know the conversion went ok. so NO I DONT PIRATE software, dont need to since all that i run is free. And yes feel free to look at the headers of this email, its from mozilla on linux. :) selling my IT manager is easy on linux, since I'm the CTO of Data Management Consulting, and selling using linux for development is just as easy at client sites. Outradeious prices absolutely but everywhere i've been they've already had oracle in-house so there was no selling to do. joe ltiu wrote: Oracle. It's only free during development/education. Charges will be exhorbitant when getting production licenses. Windows and SQL Server is free too - if you pirate, right? It's what every one does : Linux is free but trying to sell this to your IT manager is not. On Sunday 14 July 2002 12:43, Joe Testa wrote: I dont think the classic unix that you speak of will go away that fast, too many solaris/aix/hpux machines floating around still. I do any development/testing of features on linux, it cost me nothing but the hardware. RH 7.3 downloaded, no cost. technet member 9ir2 oracle downloaded, no cost. it only makes sense. joe Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Can you send more details: Which mainframe, what type of systems, how many machines, staff reduction, costs etc Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 7:58 PM Actually they were replaced in my previous company : Not XP though but W2K !!! On Monday 15 July 2002 09:44, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yes, and mainframes will all be replaced by XP next year as well. ltiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/2002 09:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future But do all these matter though? Everyone's moving to MS software and *nixes are getting rarer and rarer. The fact is that everyone's losing money (Sun, IBM, HP, SGI even RedHat and Caldera) - except MS. It's an MS world like it or not. ltiu On Monday 15 July 2002 08:33, Andrey Bronfin wrote: Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Not exactly , just look at homepages of sun , ibm , oracle . There are more appearences of the word linux there than any word in Britannica ;-) DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Wow Joe, sounds like a religious conviction... I'm impressed because I'm of the same persuasion but I'm not quite so pious/zealous and am still somewhat enslaved to the M$ beast/devil because of the company usage of Exchange with MS Outlook for Calendar and workflow. I run Linux on the laptop via VMWare but because of the Outlook dependency, running Pine, Mozilla or whatever is not a viable email solution for me. Sigh... Having run Oracle/Linux servers in production for over a year now I conclude that the platform is not just viable but is promising. Unix, Linux, and Windows are part the present with significant installed bases so that also means they will be part of the future. How long that future will be and how much future presence there will be is anybody's guess I guess. Good and Evil abound. :-) Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thats were you're wrong, i dont use microsoft products, all of my development and presentations that i make are non microsoft products. for IOUG presentations, requirement is to put them in msword and powerpoint, i convert from star office to those formatrs and have someone proof them so i know the conversion went ok. so NO I DONT PIRATE software, dont need to since all that i run is free. And yes feel free to look at the headers of this email, its from mozilla on linux. :) selling my IT manager is easy on linux, since I'm the CTO of Data Management Consulting, and selling using linux for development is just as easy at client sites. Outradeious prices absolutely but everywhere i've been they've already had oracle in-house so there was no selling to do. joe ltiu wrote: Oracle. It's only free during development/education. Charges will be exhorbitant when getting production licenses. Windows and SQL Server is free too - if you pirate, right? It's what every one does : Linux is free but trying to sell this to your IT manager is not. On Sunday 14 July 2002 12:43, Joe Testa wrote: I dont think the classic unix that you speak of will go away that fast, too many solaris/aix/hpux machines floating around still. I do any development/testing of features on linux, it cost me nothing but the hardware. RH 7.3 downloaded, no cost. technet member 9ir2 oracle downloaded, no cost. it only makes sense. joe Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
-- Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/16/02 08:09:23 -0800 I'm impressed because I'm of the same persuasion but I'm not quite so pious/zealous and am still somewhat enslaved to the M$ beast/devil because of the company usage of Exchange with MS Outlook for Calendar and workflow. I run Linux on the laptop via VMWare but because of the Outlook dependency, running Pine, Mozilla or whatever is not a viable email solution for me. Sigh... Try it the other way around and you get better performance: run VMWare on linux w/ W2K on the VM. Linux does a better job at multi-tasking and samba works wonderfully for file sharing. Add in a touch of portforwarding and a dash of NAT and it comes out fairly tasty.. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Forwarded from a co-worker: First the Germans, now the Nordes! http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=4406 I'll save my political diatribe of US vs MS for the OT list... :) Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Jared - Good point. In addition, other costs to an independent Unix vendor are: - Staff costs of a large development staff. This cost doesn't vary, regardless of the number of customers. Therefore, vendors with a small market share have proportionally higher costs. - Costs of attracting software vendors. If the Unix version has a large market share, application software vendors (like Oracle) will gladly port their product to your O.S. However, if your market share is low, vendors are reluctant to support your O.S. Then you are trapped in the chicken-and-egg syndrome (similar to nobody will give me a job because I don't have experience, but how can I get experience without a job). Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:53 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm sure that many vendors welcome an opportunity to stop paying royalties to ATT for unix code. I believe that all mainstream vendor implementations of unix have ATT base. Jared On Sunday 14 July 2002 11:58, Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Not exactly , just look at homepages of sun , ibm , oracle . There are more appearences of the word linux there than any word in Britannica ;-) DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Mon, July 15, 2002 4:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jared - Good point. In addition, other costs to an independent Unix vendor are: - Staff costs of a large development staff. This cost doesn't vary, regardless of the number of customers. Therefore, vendors with a small market share have proportionally higher costs. - Costs of attracting software vendors. If the Unix version has a large market share, application software vendors (like Oracle) will gladly port their product to your O.S. However, if your market share is low, vendors are reluctant to support your O.S. Then you are trapped in the chicken-and-egg syndrome (similar to nobody will give me a job because I don't have experience, but how can I get experience without a job). Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:53 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm sure that many vendors welcome an opportunity to stop paying royalties to ATT for unix code. I believe that all mainstream vendor implementations of unix have ATT base. Jared On Sunday 14 July 2002 11:58, Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Andrey Bronfin INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
But do all these matter though? Everyone's moving to MS software and *nixes are getting rarer and rarer. The fact is that everyone's losing money (Sun, IBM, HP, SGI even RedHat and Caldera) - except MS. It's an MS world like it or not. ltiu On Monday 15 July 2002 08:33, Andrey Bronfin wrote: Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Not exactly , just look at homepages of sun , ibm , oracle . There are more appearences of the word linux there than any word in Britannica ;-) DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Mon, July 15, 2002 4:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jared - Good point. In addition, other costs to an independent Unix vendor are: - Staff costs of a large development staff. This cost doesn't vary, regardless of the number of customers. Therefore, vendors with a small market share have proportionally higher costs. - Costs of attracting software vendors. If the Unix version has a large market share, application software vendors (like Oracle) will gladly port their product to your O.S. However, if your market share is low, vendors are reluctant to support your O.S. Then you are trapped in the chicken-and-egg syndrome (similar to nobody will give me a job because I don't have experience, but how can I get experience without a job). Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:53 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm sure that many vendors welcome an opportunity to stop paying royalties to ATT for unix code. I believe that all mainstream vendor implementations of unix have ATT base. Jared On Sunday 14 July 2002 11:58, Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Andrey I think it is important to understand the situation from the vendor's point of view. That will lead to more accurate predictions of their future behavior. At this point, I feel Linux has great momentum behind it, virtually guaranteeing its success, and your statement about vendors splashing it all over their Web pages is evidence of that momentum. Someone made the comment that there were lots of non-Linux systems in place. That is true, but the vendors don't make much money from existing systems. Only new systems drive revenue, which is why we tend to get cranky with Oracle for paying more attention to potential customers that to we loyal supporters. As I recall, Sun was one of the last Unix vendors to embrace Linux. And it was severely criticized for being behind the other major vendors. My suspicion is that Sun's support at this stage is more of the lip service variety. Has anyone had a Sun salesperson try to talk them into implementing Linux instead of Solaris? IBM has provided the most Linux support of any of the major vendors. However, AIX hasn't developed the market share of Solaris. My suspicion is that IBM's undeniably genuine support of Linux is not so much altruism, but anything that hurts Microsoft. Again, I'm just speaking to market momentum. I can recall the time when Unix was considered not ready for prime time. Vendors were putting their dollars into proprietary systems. Then, HP broke from the pack, de-emphasized their bread-and-butter proprietary O.S. and made a sincere commitment to Unix. They wound up as a major Unix vendor, while their competitors ended up as historical footnotes. Sun should pay careful attention to that experience. For Oracle, my guess is that their goal is to use Linux to look modern and open and hope nobody asks why they are spending $40k/processor for Oracle and getting the Linux O.S. for free. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Not exactly , just look at homepages of sun , ibm , oracle . There are more appearences of the word linux there than any word in Britannica ;-) DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Mon, July 15, 2002 4:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jared - Good point. In addition, other costs to an independent Unix vendor are: - Staff costs of a large development staff. This cost doesn't vary, regardless of the number of customers. Therefore, vendors with a small market share have proportionally higher costs. - Costs of attracting software vendors. If the Unix version has a large market share, application software vendors (like Oracle) will gladly port their product to your O.S. However, if your market share is low, vendors are reluctant to support your O.S. Then you are trapped in the chicken-and-egg syndrome (similar to nobody will give me a job because I don't have experience, but how can I get experience without a job). Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:53 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm sure that many vendors welcome an opportunity to stop paying royalties to ATT for unix code. I believe that all mainstream vendor implementations of unix have ATT base. Jared On Sunday 14 July 2002 11:58, Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
-- Andrey Bronfin [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/15/02 07:33:33 -0800 Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Not exactly , just look at homepages of sun , ibm , oracle . There are more appearences of the word linux there than any word in Britannica ;-) Sun doesn't like Linux all that much, they want folks to use Solaris. HP and IBM's *nix are hacks of API calls over older proprietary operating systems and both of them would be happy to dump HP-UX and AIX forever. Net result: HP and IBM are on the bandwagon, Sun is recitent about horking linux too hard for fear of making Solaris look less than perfect. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Actually they were replaced in my previous company : Not XP though but W2K !!! On Monday 15 July 2002 09:44, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yes, and mainframes will all be replaced by XP next year as well. ltiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/2002 09:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future But do all these matter though? Everyone's moving to MS software and *nixes are getting rarer and rarer. The fact is that everyone's losing money (Sun, IBM, HP, SGI even RedHat and Caldera) - except MS. It's an MS world like it or not. ltiu On Monday 15 July 2002 08:33, Andrey Bronfin wrote: Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Not exactly , just look at homepages of sun , ibm , oracle . There are more appearences of the word linux there than any word in Britannica ;-) DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Oh yes, and mainframes will all be replaced by XP next year as well. ltiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/2002 09:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future But do all these matter though? Everyone's moving to MS software and *nixes are getting rarer and rarer. The fact is that everyone's losing money (Sun, IBM, HP, SGI even RedHat and Caldera) - except MS. It's an MS world like it or not. ltiu On Monday 15 July 2002 08:33, Andrey Bronfin wrote: Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Not exactly , just look at homepages of sun , ibm , oracle . There are more appearences of the word linux there than any word in Britannica ;-) DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
can't wait for replies to this ... Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:58 PM Actually they were replaced in my previous company : Not XP though but W2K !!! On Monday 15 July 2002 09:44, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yes, and mainframes will all be replaced by XP next year as well. ltiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/2002 09:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future But do all these matter though? Everyone's moving to MS software and *nixes are getting rarer and rarer. The fact is that everyone's losing money (Sun, IBM, HP, SGI even RedHat and Caldera) - except MS. It's an MS world like it or not. ltiu On Monday 15 July 2002 08:33, Andrey Bronfin wrote: Good bet that smaller Unix vendors will run to Linux before vendors like Sun do. Not exactly , just look at homepages of sun , ibm , oracle . There are more appearences of the word linux there than any word in Britannica ;-) DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
For Oracle, my guess is that their goal is to use Linux to look modern and open and hope nobody asks why they are spending $40k/processor for Oracle and getting the Linux O.S. for free. Dennis, If you want to purchase heavy duty production ready, SMP capable Linux, it ain't free. RH for examples is $2K+. Still not a bad price, but not free. I don't know what IBM's offererings cost. Jared DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/2002 09:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future Andrey I think it is important to understand the situation from the vendor's point of view. That will lead to more accurate predictions of their future behavior. At this point, I feel Linux has great momentum behind it, virtually guaranteeing its success, and your statement about vendors splashing it all over their Web pages is evidence of that momentum. Someone made the comment that there were lots of non-Linux systems in place. That is true, but the vendors don't make much money from existing systems. Only new systems drive revenue, which is why we tend to get cranky with Oracle for paying more attention to potential customers that to we loyal supporters. As I recall, Sun was one of the last Unix vendors to embrace Linux. And it was severely criticized for being behind the other major vendors. My suspicion is that Sun's support at this stage is more of the lip service variety. Has anyone had a Sun salesperson try to talk them into implementing Linux instead of Solaris? IBM has provided the most Linux support of any of the major vendors. However, AIX hasn't developed the market share of Solaris. My suspicion is that IBM's undeniably genuine support of Linux is not so much altruism, but anything that hurts Microsoft. Again, I'm just speaking to market momentum. I can recall the time when Unix was considered not ready for prime time. Vendors were putting their dollars into proprietary systems. Then, HP broke from the pack, de-emphasized their bread-and-butter proprietary O.S. and made a sincere commitment to Unix. They wound up as a major Unix vendor, while their competitors ended up as historical footnotes. Sun should pay careful attention to that experience. For Oracle, my guess is that their goal is to use Linux to look modern and open and hope nobody asks why they are spending $40k/processor for Oracle and getting the Linux O.S. for free. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Thats were you're wrong, i dont use microsoft products, all of my development and presentations that i make are non microsoft products. for IOUG presentations, requirement is to put them in msword and powerpoint, i convert from star office to those formatrs and have someone proof them so i know the conversion went ok. so NO I DONT PIRATE software, dont need to since all that i run is free. And yes feel free to look at the headers of this email, its from mozilla on linux. :) selling my IT manager is easy on linux, since I'm the CTO of Data Management Consulting, and selling using linux for development is just as easy at client sites. Outradeious prices absolutely but everywhere i've been they've already had oracle in-house so there was no selling to do. joe ltiu wrote: Oracle. It's only free during development/education. Charges will be exhorbitant when getting production licenses. Windows and SQL Server is free too - if you pirate, right? It's what every one does : Linux is free but trying to sell this to your IT manager is not. On Sunday 14 July 2002 12:43, Joe Testa wrote: I dont think the classic unix that you speak of will go away that fast, too many solaris/aix/hpux machines floating around still. I do any development/testing of features on linux, it cost me nothing but the hardware. RH 7.3 downloaded, no cost. technet member 9ir2 oracle downloaded, no cost. it only makes sense. joe Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Andrey Bronfin INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
I dont think the classic unix that you speak of will go away that fast, too many solaris/aix/hpux machines floating around still. I do any development/testing of features on linux, it cost me nothing but the hardware. RH 7.3 downloaded, no cost. technet member 9ir2 oracle downloaded, no cost. it only makes sense. joe Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
I don't know man. I use whatever gets the job done. ltiu On Sunday 14 July 2002 11:58, Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Oracle. It's only free during development/education. Charges will be exhorbitant when getting production licenses. Windows and SQL Server is free too - if you pirate, right? It's what every one does : Linux is free but trying to sell this to your IT manager is not. On Sunday 14 July 2002 12:43, Joe Testa wrote: I dont think the classic unix that you speak of will go away that fast, too many solaris/aix/hpux machines floating around still. I do any development/testing of features on linux, it cost me nothing but the hardware. RH 7.3 downloaded, no cost. technet member 9ir2 oracle downloaded, no cost. it only makes sense. joe Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
Development shops that actually write native code will target an OS with market share. Now, seeing that alot of code written today is interpreted the move to linux, windows, or beatnix is irrelevent. As far as DB vendors targeting linux they move in herds and have just finished their linux port from when linux was a buzzword. On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Andrey Bronfin INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alex INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT - unix vs linux vs windows - the future
I'm sure that many vendors welcome an opportunity to stop paying royalties to ATT for unix code. I believe that all mainstream vendor implementations of unix have ATT base. Jared On Sunday 14 July 2002 11:58, Andrey Bronfin wrote: hi ! i might start another war , but i can't resist a part of me which wants to ask : what do you , seasoned gurus, think of everybody's (as it seems to be) plans to abandon the classic unix for linux ? In particular , most database vendors (as well as other enterprise software vendors) name linux as the future #1 platform for their DBs (especially given the fact that a DB cluster is not rare any more). It also looks like many development shops shift their efforts to develop on windows (or , in some rare cases, linux ) instead of unix . What do you think about this ? DBAndrey * 03-9254520 * 058-548133 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
