Re: Question of the day
Surely you meant idyllic symbol? :-) BTW, the buildings are really giant disk drives... [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/09/01 05:06PM SATIRE, SARCASMS ON (just got our 2002 price quote) Does any person know of a statue / figure/ object that stands outside the Oracle Corporate Headquarters that stands as their idolic symbol? All I have found is the registered trademark ORACLE. I guess the cylindrical tower buildings are a gothic resemblance in themselves. SATIRE, SARCASMS OFF ROR mô¿ôm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Question of the day
If it's an idolic symbol it's probably a statue of Larry that everyone is supposed to bow to. ;-) Rodd Original Message On 5/10/01, 7:51:05 AM, Tim Sawmiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding Re: Question of the day: Surely you meant idyllic symbol? :-) BTW, the buildings are really giant disk drives... [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/09/01 05:06PM SATIRE, SARCASMS ON (just got our 2002 price quote) Does any person know of a statue / figure/ object that stands outside the Oracle Corporate Headquarters that stands as their idolic symbol? All I have found is the registered trademark ORACLE. I guess the cylindrical tower buildings are a gothic resemblance in themselves. SATIRE, SARCASMS OFF ROR mô¿ôm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rodd Holman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Question of the day
SATIRE, SARCASMS ON (just got our 2002 price quote) Does any person know of a statue / figure/ object that stands outside the Oracle Corporate Headquarters that stands as their idolic symbol? All I have found is the registered trademark ORACLE. I guess the cylindrical tower buildings are a gothic resemblance in themselves. SATIRE, SARCASMS OFF ROR mô¿ôm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
well... (platitude insertion:) the good thing about pondering the dark side of the force every once of while is that it makes everything else look brighter. :) On 6 Feb 2001, at 7:01, Mohan, Ross scribbled with alacrity and cogency: PC Answer: How awful. This denigrates blah blah blah and is just another example of the Post-Male Doctrinal Hegemony laid out (so to speak) by E. Jong in her "Fear of Flying" manifesto. Insert streams of senseless Po-Mo here until exhausted. Non PC Answer: Technically, none such exists. In reality ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
I have taken the stance with one junior that he now has to prove me wrong in anything I tell him. Loser buys the beer. He owes me quite a bit right now:-) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Kimberly, I could say the same thing of course, the other part is that I convinced the programmers here that I knew what I was doing by letting them have their way in development and watching it die... then converting it to what I wanted to do and watching it fly. Now they ask my opinion before they do anything. Rachel From: Kimberly Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 08:11:03 -0800 I have had that same issue in the past but I don't have it here. I find that as long as you have your managements support and the development team knows that then life will be much easier. I am very lucky here in that I have good management and a very well trained senior development team to work with. Not that there are never disagreements but comprise is the name of the game. You just got to be picky on what you let them think you are compromising on:-) I always have more issues with junior/intermediate developers. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Rachel: I miss a couple of my old jobs where I has other roles (developer/dba and network admin/helpdesk/etc) where I got quite a few people trained real well :) I could count on a snack from several people a week. Although I guess that could be seen from their side as "We sure got this guy trained better than the last IT guy here!" Stephen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/05 11:35 AM hm, I like that. I've been working on training people here on the proper bribes for the DBA, but they are SLOWWW learners. From: Kimberly Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:55:48 -0800 I have taken the stance with one junior that he now has to prove me wrong in anything I tell him. Loser buys the beer. He owes me quite a bit right now:-) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Kimberly, I could say the same thing of course, the other part is that I convinced the programmers here that I knew what I was doing by letting them have their way in development and watching it die... then converting it to what I wanted to do and watching it fly. Now they ask my opinion before they do anything. Rachel From: Kimberly Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 08:11:03 -0800 I have had that same issue in the past but I don't have it here. I find that as long as you have your managements support and the development team knows that then life will be much easier. I am very lucky here in that I have good management and a very well trained senior development team to work with. Not that there are never disagreements but comprise is the name of the game. You just got to be picky on what you let them think you are compromising on:-) I always have more issues with junior/intermediate developers. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from thi
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Rocky, She lost the bet and got a raise - go figure ! well done lisa , we still wish you were back in Eden Prairie ! Q Rocky Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 02/05/2001 03:45:33 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Brian McQuillan/GELCO) Anyone heard from Lisa today or is she out job hunting? ;o) Kimberly Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like you more like the backup DBA then just a developer. Congrs, I believe you wear two hats. Now go ask for a raise. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You are exactly correct. I as a developer am usually the first line of blame when something doesn't work even when it is because the sys admin decided to add a service pack or to tweak some parameters to optimize something else, or the network guys decided to improve the firewalls or the DBA decided to clean up the database without bothering to find out if those tables were actually being used. We are a pretty small shop compared to most of you guys, nobody is on call, and sometimes the DBA is not available or is busy with something else, so I need to be able to stop and start the listener, create and move tables, recreate indexes, drop and add users and privileges. On the plus side for the DBA, I am responsible for fixing my own mistakes, the most he has to do for me is load the backup tape. At 10:05 AM 2/2/01 -0800, you wrote: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTcome on! give me an user who prefer we, developers and dbas working in a decent way, instead of get its job done "rigth now in this moment" and I'll shave my head and paint it blue. developers get crazy trying to solve a problem with users on the other side of the phone yelling! and that's first reason of messing everything up. (ok, don't generalize) users' bosses want the same. why can't we talk about the complete organization? and why everybody thinks developers and dbas as separate things? If you can't separate responsabilities and duties, well, it's an organization problem try to take an equilibrium and you'll be happy Gabriel Galanternik - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:10 PM Lisa, Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete restores. Use some technical DBA language to make them understand you have the knowledge, but make sure you keep the message at a manager level of understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$ and performance in front of the CEO. HTH Rodd Holman -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information containe
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/12701.html - http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/16057.html (Prostitutes used to tempt IT staff into jobs) On 5 Feb 2001, at 12:12, Rocky Welch wrote: Date sent: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:12:17 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] hm, I like that. I've been working on training people here on the proper bribes for the DBA, but they are SLOWWW learners. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Lisa, A sweatshop?! Now that sounds a bit harsh. .; ) And just yesterday, both Larry and Jeff complimented me on something nice some developers said about me. Last Friday they reorged a bit and now Leo is Larry's boss. So basically Development and our group is under the same umbrella. They've been spending the last week trying to get everyone to play nice together. Now we're trying to emphasize Service with a Smile. Cherie -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Oops, I hate it when I do that. That was supposed to go straight to Lisa. Everyone else can just scratch their head and wonder. Cherie -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re:Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Lisa, Sounds like you've got a problem. I'll give you my take on this which has worked pretty well, although not always. Developers do not get free reign all over the place. They do not get DBA privileges. They do not get access to other than 'USER%' views into the core tables. They get specific access to specific tablespaces in specific instances only. They grant object privileges to database roles only. Grants on objects to other users is on a case by case basis. Passwords are changed with some regularity are not shared (if I find a case where this is not so, especially in the production systems, I change the password their boss has to come get it). I work with the developers as much as possible to insure they don't get out of hand I will make backups of production stuff before they make changes if they ask. If they don't ask then break something they're on their own the grilling that gets handed out by the "powers that be" is more than enough incentive. In some cases I've actually taken over control of the production DB where the developers have created too much havoc, which isn't much. I kind of rule with an "iron" hand, but it's soft iron. For the most part if your involved in the beginnings of a project it's easy to keep things in check. It also does help to stand up for your opinions, even to the CIO/CTO. I've gotten to the point where I really don't care if the upper crust is upset with me. If they don't like it they can fire me, there are more than enough other jobs out there. Besides, when I did "let them have their own way", I only spent one evening fixing the mess but the developer ended up spending an entire day before the "firing squad" upstairs. Case closed. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: "Koivu; Lisa" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/2/2001 7:20 AM "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2650.12" TITLEPondering Question of the Day-RESPECT/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"quot;Hello Oracle Guruquot;/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace.nbsp; ??/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"How many of you have this problem?nbsp; It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production.nbsp; I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email.nbsp; But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY.nbsp; I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts.nbsp; /FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority.nbsp; Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do.nbsp; Even when I say, Dude, I own the database.nbsp; If there's a problem, I have to fix it.nbsp; Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production.nbsp; /FO
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Title: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT Lisa, Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete restores. Use sometechnicalDBA language to make them understand you have the knowledge, but make sure you keepthe message at amanager level of understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$ and performance in front of the CEO. HTH Rodd Holman -Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com."
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Title: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT I have had that same issue in the past but I don't have it here. I find that as long as you have your managements support and the development team knows that then life will be much easier. I am very lucky here in that I have good management and a very well trained senior development team to work with. Not that there are never disagreements but comprise is the name of the game. You just got to be picky on what you let them think you are compromising on:-) I always have more issues with junior/intermediate developers. -Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:20 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com."
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTlisa, feel sorry for you, but it's some of what we discuss the other day about if a developer should tell dba about creating tables and so. i think that here, we respect the others based only on technical skills, and that's the way it should be at work, and sometimes not. maybe, just to get some piece of mind, in your place, I would change the phrase "I own database" for "I'm responsible to make it work", they means the same but in second case you won't feel they are hurting you. this problem is a sign of these days that runs at "internet speed" :-( when I was in that position, the only thing that helped a little was "zero tolerance", but maybe you can't. other position would be, "ok, you break it, I'll fix it" but then you must write a full report, describing problem, when, what, who, why and what the solution was, including time you spend on each of the tasks, ok? who will read it? you could try in this order: - the one who made the mistake and, - your boss or leader or coordinator - developer's leader - project manager and going up in the organization chart at least, you can cover you from blaming best wishes Gabriel Galanternik - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 12:20 PM "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gabriel Galanternik INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTcome on! give me an user who prefer we, developers and dbas working in a decent way, instead of get its job done "rigth now in this moment" and I'll shave my head and paint it blue. developers get crazy trying to solve a problem with users on the other side of the phone yelling! and that's first reason of messing everything up. (ok, don't generalize) users' bosses want the same. why can't we talk about the complete organization? and why everybody thinks developers and dbas as separate things? If you can't separate responsabilities and duties, well, it's an organization problem try to take an equilibrium and you'll be happy Gabriel Galanternik - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:10 PM Lisa, Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete restores. Use some technical DBA language to make them understand you have the knowledge, but make sure you keep the message at a manager level of understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$ and performance in front of the CEO. HTH Rodd Holman -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gabriel Galanternik INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Title: RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT Gabriel, I agree. In the past it hasn't been us vs. them. It just has gotten worse in the last few months. Why can't we just all get along? Sure, it's quiet when I don't insist upon proper procedures. I DID change the passwords, this morning, after someone left the company yesterday. That's what caused this entire rift! Oh well. It's Friday and I have a bet going that I'll be fired by the end of the day. If I do get fired today I win $500! Ha! Have a great weekend everyone Lisa -Original Message- From: Gabriel Galanternik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTcome on! give me an user who prefer we, developers and dbas working in a decent way, instead of get its job done rigth now in this moment and I'll shave my head and paint it blue. developers get crazy trying to solve a problem with users on the other side of the phone yelling! and that's first reason of messing everything up. (ok, don't generalize) users' bosses want the same. why can't we talk about the complete organization? and why everybody thinks developers and dbas as separate things? If you can't separate responsabilities and duties, well, it's an organization problem try to take an equilibrium and you'll be happy Gabriel Galanternik - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:10 PM Lisa, Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete restores. Use some technical DBA language to make them understand you have the knowledge, but make sure you keep the message at a manager level of understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$ and performance in front of the CEO. HTH Rodd Holman -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Oracle Guru Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gabriel Galanternik INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Lisa, What?!! Are you betting against getting fired or for being fired? Cherie Oh well. It's Friday and I have a bet going that I'll be fired by the end of the day. If I do get fired today I win $500! Ha! Have a great weekend everyone Lisa -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTcome on! give me an user who prefer we, developers and dbas working in a decent way, instead of get its job done "rigth now in this moment" and I'll shave my head and paint it blue. developers get crazy trying to solve a problem with users on the other side of the phone yelling! and that's first reason of messing everything up. (ok, don't generalize) users' bosses want the same. why can't we talk about the complete organization? and why everybody thinks developers and dbas as separate things? If you can't separate responsabilities and duties, well, it's an organization problem try to take an equilibrium and you'll be happy Gabriel Galanternik - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:10 PM Lisa, Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete restores. Use some technical DBA language to make them understand you have the knowledge, but make sure you keep the message at a manager level of understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$ and performance in front of the CEO. HTH Rodd Holman -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gabriel Galanternik INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Title: RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT Gabriel, I agree. In the past it hasn't been us vs. them. It just has gotten worse in the last few months. Why can't we just all get along? Sure, it's quiet when I don't insist upon proper procedures. I DID change the passwords, this morning, after someone left the company
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Sounds like a new white paper titled, "How To Be Fired as a DBA." :-) Best of luck... however you're interpreting that. ;-) Steve Orr -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, What?!! Are you betting against getting fired or for being fired? Cherie Oh well. It's Friday and I have a bet going that I'll be fired by the end of the day. If I do get fired today I win $500! Ha! Have a great weekend everyone Lisa -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTcome on! give me an user who prefer we, developers and dbas working in a decent way, instead of get its job done "rigth now in this moment" and I'll shave my head and paint it blue. developers get crazy trying to solve a problem with users on the other side of the phone yelling! and that's first reason of messing everything up. (ok, don't generalize) users' bosses want the same. why can't we talk about the complete organization? and why everybody thinks developers and dbas as separate things? If you can't separate responsabilities and duties, well, it's an organization problem try to take an equilibrium and you'll be happy Gabriel Galanternik - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:10 PM Lisa, Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete restores. Use some technical DBA language to make them understand you have the knowledge, but make sure you keep the message at a manager level of understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$ and performance in front of the CEO. HTH Rodd Holman -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
On 2 Feb 2001, at 8:18, Koivu, Lisa wrote: ... Fire me then. Are you *sure* it's not because you are a viking fan? :) ep -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
Lisa, Yes. Don't keep us in suspense. Let us know how the bet turned out. Cherie p.s. If you lose, that's $50 down the drain "Steve Orr" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 02/02/2001 03:36:12 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Cherie Machler/GELCO) Sounds like a new white paper titled, "How To Be Fired as a DBA." :-) Best of luck... however you're interpreting that. ;-) Steve Orr -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, What?!! Are you betting against getting fired or for being fired? Cherie Oh well. It's Friday and I have a bet going that I'll be fired by the end of the day. If I do get fired today I win $500! Ha! Have a great weekend everyone Lisa -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECTcome on! give me an user who prefer we, developers and dbas working in a decent way, instead of get its job done "rigth now in this moment" and I'll shave my head and paint it blue. developers get crazy trying to solve a problem with users on the other side of the phone yelling! and that's first reason of messing everything up. (ok, don't generalize) users' bosses want the same. why can't we talk about the complete organization? and why everybody thinks developers and dbas as separate things? If you can't separate responsabilities and duties, well, it's an organization problem try to take an equilibrium and you'll be happy Gabriel Galanternik - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:10 PM Lisa, Rather than talking to the CTO about this go to the Dir, VP, or whatever of the USERS of the system. In-fact he/she is the actual OWNER of the data in the system. Explain to him/her how dangerous and devious the developers are to the data. Talk about corruption, system downtime, partial and incomplete restores. Use some technical DBA language to make them understand you have the knowledge, but make sure you keep the message at a manager level of understanding. Get them good and scared. Then when the developers are asking for the free ride in production you have an advocate in high postion that can put the CTO in a position of getting a backbone. When the COO starts asking why his people can't work, or why the P/L statement is messed up the CTO will start scrambling for a lockdown on production and more comprehensive testing of new or enhanced code. Remember the politics. We in the IT field are not the production organization we are the service organization. When it comes to power struggles at the Cxx levels the production/operations guys always beat the IT/IS guys. It's a mater of $$$ and performance in front of the CEO. HTH Rodd Holman -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
RE: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT
But, but... you da man, Lisa. I just button down everything. The only people in the universe that know the db passwords are me and my 11-year-old daughter, because my company is too damn cheap to hire a backup for me. I told my daughter that if I die, log in and delete every database in sight. Bend over, fart, nice to know ya. Button down everything and just sit tight. The duhvelopers will come to you on bended knees. If your company is like the several I have worked for, your CTO, CIO, VP, Middle Manager, and Janitor (they're all the same) don't have a clue what you're doing. They're too damn busy trying to save their own jobs. You have much political leverage. Use it. Damn, I wish I was still working at my old job. When I was an air traffic controller, it was so simple. I fucked up, someone died (never happened). Being a DBA, it doesn't matter how well you do your job. People still use you as the whipping boy. Once again, you're at the strong end of the lever. Figure out how to use it. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA From: "Koivu, Lisa" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Pondering Question of the Day-RESPECT Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 07:20:24 -0800 "Hello Oracle Guru" Now why is it that I get more respect on the Internet than I do in my workplace. ?? How many of you have this problem? It's like an ongoing fight with developers, they want carte blanche in the production database, and they do whatever they want EVEN THOUGH I tell them NO, let's do something different that won't affect production. I go to the CTO because this is like the 3rd time this has happened, and he sends out a let's-be-sure-not-to-offend-anyone email. But the developer(s) will go ahead and do what they want ANYWAY. I'm waiting for the first user-mistake recovery to say STOP, I've had ENOUGH and this is how it's going to be, no ifs, ands or buts. My last job may have been a sweatshop, but at least people respected my authority. Here, it's a free for all no matter what I do. Even when I say, Dude, I own the database. If there's a problem, I have to fix it. Therefore I say what happens in production and what doesn' t happen in production. And yes, I am looking for another position. I can only take this dba/developer/janitor role for so long. I'M SO GLAD IT'S FRIDAY... Bring on the Captain Morgan! It's noon somewhere... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com "The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com." _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
