Re: 4 join methods?

2001-06-02 Thread Sam Roberts



I did have to RTFM - 

A cluster join is nothing more than a nested loops join 
involving two tables that are stored together in a cluster. Because each row 
from the dept table is stored in the same data blocks as the 
matching rows in the emp table, Oracle can access matching rows 
most efficiently

Sam

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Vadim Gorbounov 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 6:25 PM
  Subject: RE: 4 join methods?
  
  Hi, 
  DBAs,
  RTFM is so 
  boring, but... There is cutpaste from 
  "Oracle8i Designing and Tuning for 
  Performance" 
   The 
  Optimizer
   Optimizing 
  joins
  
  
  


  
Join 
Operations
  
To join each pair of row sources, 
Oracle must perform one of these operations: 

  Nested Loops (NL) Join 
  
  Sort-Merge Join 
  
  Hash Join (not available with the RBO) 
  
  Cluster Join 
  
  Cheers,
  Vadim 
  Gorbounov
  Oracle DBA 
  


RE: 4 join methods?

2001-06-01 Thread Shevtsov, Eduard

Hi Greg,

I think Tim is right. I've read all the thread and 
among all other suggestions cluster join might have been the
best answer. But if I remember correctly it is a kind of N-L
Now going to read the article. Thanks for the link

Regards,
Ed

  
  I also sent an inquiry to Tim Gorman, who wrote the article 
  on the CBO.
  He's no novice.  He says the fourth join method is
  
  1.  nested loops
  2.  sort merge
  3.  hash join
  
  and
  
  4.  cartesian product !
  
  I kid you not.
  
  By the way, if you're on 8i and haven't already set init parms
  OPTIMIZER_INDEX_CACHING=90 and OPTIMIZER_INDEX_COST_ADJ to 
  something between
  10 and 50, you might really like this article he wrote, The 
  Search for
  Intelligent Life in the CBO.  Currently it's the fist 
  article listed at
  http://www.evdbt.com/library.htm
  
  - Greg
  
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-06-01 Thread Greg Moore



Most people think of cartesian product as a type of 
SQL coding that produces a result set where all rows in one table are joined to 
all rows in another. This could be accomplished by any of the three 
commonly known join methods. For example,select ename , dname from 
emp , dept/Execution 
Plan--SELECT STATEMENT Optimizer=CHOOSE 
NESTED LOOPS TABLE ACCESS (FULL) OF 
'DEPT' TABLE ACCESS (FULL) OF 
'EMP'Above a cartesian product SQL is resolved by a nested 
loops join method.

I notice in explain plans a sort merge step appears 
as:
... 
MERGE JOIN...However, in 8.1.6, and 
possibly before, Oracle may resolve a query against a large child table and two 
small parent tables by first performing a cartesian product on the smaller 
tables, then joining the result set with the large table. This is invoked 
with the STAR hint and may happen without the hint if you happen to join one 
large table with two smaller lookup tables. In this case the step where 
the smaller tables are joined appears as:... MERGE JOIN 
(CARTESIAN)...This does not happen because the 
SQL is written as a cartesian product, and the results do not reflect a join of 
all rows to all rows. The cartesian product is merely an intermediate step 
used to optimize processing.

My question is whether theMERGE JOIN 
(CARTESIAN)step is a separate join method. Certainly it is 
not the normal processing for what is typically understood to be SQL that 
creates a cartesian product, which could be resolved with any of the three 
ordinary join methodsseen in explain plans.
I have searched the Oracle documentation and 
find no explanation for the difference between an explain plan step MERGE JOIN, which we know is a sort merge 
method, and a step MERGE JOIN 
(CARTESIAN), which as far as I can tell is never mentioned in 
the documentation, and which apparently represents the mysterious fourth 
method!Does anyone know where I can 
find any further information on MERGE JOIN 
(CARTESIAN)?


RE: 4 join methods?

2001-06-01 Thread Christopher Spence

inner join and equijoin are the same

Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen.

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:26 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There are 5 join operations
inner join
equi-join
outer-join
anti-join
self-join

and 3 join methods
neted loop
sort merge join
hash join


sam


- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:55 AM


 1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4. Hash-join

 rukmini
 - Original Message -
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:20 AM


  i feel the fourth one is self join.
 
  - Original Message -
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:10 AM
 
 
   Hi,
  
   I just read there are four join methods.  I know three:
  
   Nested loops
   Sort merge
   Hash join
  
   What's the fourth?
  
   - Greg
  
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-06-01 Thread Jared Still

On Friday 01 June 2001 06:30, Greg Moore wrote:

 Does anyone know where I can find any further information on MERGE JOIN
 (CARTESIAN)?

Ha!  While reading your post, I was formulating a reply to you to ask the 
same question, then I saw the end of your post.

I just read the chapter on the Optimizer earlier this week, and don't recall
seeing anything about the cartesian step, though I did see it in an explain
plan earlier this week and wondered where it came from.

The join I was playing with was a simple one to test some other features,
no cartesian product possible with it, yet there it was in the execution plan.

If you find any more on it, please share with the list.

Jared
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RE: 4 join methods?

2001-06-01 Thread Vadim Gorbounov



Hi, 
DBAs,
RTFM is so boring, 
but... There is cutpaste from 
"Oracle8i Designing and Tuning for 
Performance" 
 The 
Optimizer
 Optimizing 
joins



  
  

  Join 
  Operations

  To join each pair of row sources, 
  Oracle must perform one of these operations: 
  
Nested Loops (NL) Join 

Sort-Merge Join 

Hash Join (not available with the RBO) 

Cluster Join 

Cheers,
Vadim 
Gorbounov
Oracle DBA 



Re: 4 join methods?

2001-06-01 Thread Sam Roberts

They are basically the same I agree
but for clarification
an inner join is a join where rows from one table are joined to rows from
another table based on some common values, an equi join is one in which the
equals operator is used to directly relate two values.
I can see the difference in business terms - if you disagree take the
argument up with the likes  of guy harrison et al.
cause to quote rhett, frankly my dear, I don't give a (damn('flying duck'))

Sam




- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 5:40 PM


 inner join and equijoin are the same

 Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
 both are frozen.

 Christopher R. Spence
 Oracle DBA
 Fuelspot



 -Original Message-
 Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:26 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


 There are 5 join operations
 inner join
 equi-join
 outer-join
 anti-join
 self-join

 and 3 join methods
 neted loop
 sort merge join
 hash join


 sam


 - Original Message -
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:55 AM


  1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4. Hash-join
 
  rukmini
  - Original Message -
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:20 AM
 
 
   i feel the fourth one is self join.
  
   - Original Message -
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:10 AM
  
  
Hi,
   
I just read there are four join methods.  I know three:
   
Nested loops
Sort merge
Hash join
   
What's the fourth?
   
- Greg
   
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Greg Moore

There's an article by Tim Gorman, The Search for Intelligent Life in the
Cost-Based Optimizer  http://www.evdbt.com/library.htm where he talks about
the CBO having knowledge about how the four methods of joining tables
operate.

I asked the question because I've only heard of nested loops, sort merge and
hash join.  Wondering what the fourth is.

- Greg

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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread PD Miller

At 22:55 -0800 30/5/01, Rukmini Devi wrote:
1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4. Hash-join

Outer join is a logical type not an access method.

the four types of join that Oracle can use:

Nested Loops join
Sort Merge join (equi-join only)
Cluster join (equi-join on cluster key only)
Hash join (equijoin, cost-based only)

Regards

Paul Miller
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Rukmini Devi

Where can I get the documentation for join methods ?

rukmini
- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 3:45 PM


 At 22:55 -0800 30/5/01, Rukmini Devi wrote:
 1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4. Hash-join
 
 Outer join is a logical type not an access method.
 
 the four types of join that Oracle can use:
 
 Nested Loops join
 Sort Merge join (equi-join only)
 Cluster join (equi-join on cluster key only)
 Hash join (equijoin, cost-based only)
 
 Regards
 
 Paul Miller
 -- 
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Greg Moore

 the four types of join that Oracle can use:

Ah ha.  Thank you!

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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Connor McDonald

And with all the hoopla that Oracle are spouting,
I'm sure they'll be trying to convince us that (8i)
partition wise join is a new type as well..

:-)

Connor

--- PD Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  At
22:55 -0800 30/5/01, Rukmini Devi wrote:
 1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4.
 Hash-join
 
 Outer join is a logical type not an access method.
 
 the four types of join that Oracle can use:
 
 Nested Loops join
 Sort Merge join (equi-join only)
 Cluster join (equi-join on cluster key only)
 Hash join (equijoin, cost-based only)
 
 Regards
 
 Paul Miller
 -- 
 -
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RE: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Post, Ethan

Search this page for the word hash, you will find a good article on hash
joins.

http://www.itsystems.lv/gints/files/oracle/oracle.htm

- Ethan Post

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:57 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Where can I get the documentation for join methods ?

rukmini
- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 3:45 PM


 At 22:55 -0800 30/5/01, Rukmini Devi wrote:
 1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4. Hash-join
 
 Outer join is a logical type not an access method.
 
 the four types of join that Oracle can use:
 
 Nested Loops join
 Sort Merge join (equi-join only)
 Cluster join (equi-join on cluster key only)
 Hash join (equijoin, cost-based only)
 
 Regards
 
 Paul Miller
 -- 
 -
 Carib Data Limited
 
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Mogens Nørgaard

There is certainly something new called an index join around in 8i.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wonder if their thinking of the star join??

 Dick Goulet

 Reply Separator
 Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date:   5/31/2001 5:00 AM

 And with all the hoopla that Oracle are spouting,
 I'm sure they'll be trying to convince us that (8i)
 partition wise join is a new type as well..

 :-)

 Connor

 --- PD Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  At
 22:55 -0800 30/5/01, Rukmini Devi wrote:
  1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4.
  Hash-join
 
  Outer join is a logical type not an access method.
 
  the four types of join that Oracle can use:
 
  Nested Loops join
  Sort Merge join (equi-join only)
  Cluster join (equi-join on cluster key only)
  Hash join (equijoin, cost-based only)
 
  Regards
 
  Paul Miller
  --
  -
  Carib Data Limited
 
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.caribdata.co.uk
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RE: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Scott . Shafer

Cartesian Join?  shudder

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210-581-6217

And no amount of training or preparedness can eliminate the almost
certainty that in the middle of your Angry Crane stance, as you transition
to your Combative Monkey to administer the Coup de Grâce via your Ninja
Death Touch, you step on a beer bottle and fall backwards into the juke box
and get your head stove in by a drunk with a pool cue.  --Jay Trigg

 -Original Message-
 From: Greg Moore [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:41 PM
 To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject:  4 join methods?
 
 Hi,
 
 I just read there are four join methods.  I know three:
 
 Nested loops
 Sort merge
 Hash join
 
 What's the fourth?
 
 - Greg
 
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread PD Miller

At 9:07 -0800 31/5/01, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:
There is certainly something new called an index join around in 8i.

An index join is a hash join on 2 or more indexes which between them
contain all the columns required to fulfill the query. It is new to
8i, and is considered to be an access pathl but strangely is not
considered to be a join method; probably because it is a hybrid of
the hash join using indices only.

Regards

Paul Miller
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Jared Still


On Thursday 31 May 2001 10:07, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:
 There is certainly something new called an index join around in 8i.

That wouldn't be considered a new type of join though would it?

Just using indexes as a data source for the join.  They shoulda done
this a long time ago.

Jared
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RE: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Khedr, Waleed

I think you mean bitmap join indexes which is a new feature in 9i.

Regards,

Waleed

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There is certainly something new called an index join around in 8i.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wonder if their thinking of the star join??

 Dick Goulet

 Reply Separator
 Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date:   5/31/2001 5:00 AM

 And with all the hoopla that Oracle are spouting,
 I'm sure they'll be trying to convince us that (8i)
 partition wise join is a new type as well..

 :-)

 Connor

 --- PD Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  At
 22:55 -0800 30/5/01, Rukmini Devi wrote:
  1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4.
  Hash-join
 
  Outer join is a logical type not an access method.
 
  the four types of join that Oracle can use:
 
  Nested Loops join
  Sort Merge join (equi-join only)
  Cluster join (equi-join on cluster key only)
  Hash join (equijoin, cost-based only)
 
  Regards
 
  Paul Miller
  --
  -
  Carib Data Limited
 
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.caribdata.co.uk
  --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
  http://www.orafaq.com
  --
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 Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue

 
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 Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
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Venlig hilsen

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Miracle A/S, Denmark
Web: http://MiracleAS.dk
Mobile: +45 2527 7100


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RE: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Christopher Spence

i don't think it is considered a join, from what I remember it was called
merging indexes.

Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen.

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 3:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



On Thursday 31 May 2001 10:07, Mogens Nørgaard wrote:
 There is certainly something new called an index join around in 8i.

That wouldn't be considered a new type of join though would it?

Just using indexes as a data source for the join.  They shoulda done
this a long time ago.

Jared
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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Author: Jared Still
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RE: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Christopher Spence

No, Oracle 8i will actually merge indexes and perform a pseudo join when
possible without going to either table directly.

Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen.

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I think you mean bitmap join indexes which is a new feature in 9i.

Regards,

Waleed

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There is certainly something new called an index join around in 8i.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wonder if their thinking of the star join??

 Dick Goulet

 Reply Separator
 Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date:   5/31/2001 5:00 AM

 And with all the hoopla that Oracle are spouting,
 I'm sure they'll be trying to convince us that (8i)
 partition wise join is a new type as well..

 :-)

 Connor

 --- PD Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  At
 22:55 -0800 30/5/01, Rukmini Devi wrote:
  1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4.
  Hash-join
 
  Outer join is a logical type not an access method.
 
  the four types of join that Oracle can use:
 
  Nested Loops join
  Sort Merge join (equi-join only)
  Cluster join (equi-join on cluster key only)
  Hash join (equijoin, cost-based only)
 
  Regards
 
  Paul Miller
  --
  -
  Carib Data Limited
 
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.caribdata.co.uk
  --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
  http://www.orafaq.com
  --
  Author: PD Miller
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Technical Director
Miracle A/S, Denmark
Web: http://MiracleAS.dk
Mobile: +45 2527 7100


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RE: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Khedr, Waleed

Yes I know it and sometimes I enforce it using index_join hint.

Regards

Waleed

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:07 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


No, Oracle 8i will actually merge indexes and perform a pseudo join when
possible without going to either table directly.

Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen.

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I think you mean bitmap join indexes which is a new feature in 9i.

Regards,

Waleed

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There is certainly something new called an index join around in 8i.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wonder if their thinking of the star join??

 Dick Goulet

 Reply Separator
 Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date:   5/31/2001 5:00 AM

 And with all the hoopla that Oracle are spouting,
 I'm sure they'll be trying to convince us that (8i)
 partition wise join is a new type as well..

 :-)

 Connor

 --- PD Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  At
 22:55 -0800 30/5/01, Rukmini Devi wrote:
  1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4.
  Hash-join
 
  Outer join is a logical type not an access method.
 
  the four types of join that Oracle can use:
 
  Nested Loops join
  Sort Merge join (equi-join only)
  Cluster join (equi-join on cluster key only)
  Hash join (equijoin, cost-based only)
 
  Regards
 
  Paul Miller
  --
  -
  Carib Data Limited
 
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.caribdata.co.uk
  --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
  http://www.orafaq.com
  --
  Author: PD Miller
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 http://www.oradba.freeserve.co.uk)

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 Do You Yahoo!?
 Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
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Venlig hilsen

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Technical Director
Miracle A/S, Denmark
Web: http://MiracleAS.dk
Mobile: +45 2527 7100


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Author: 

Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-31 Thread Greg Moore

I also sent an inquiry to Tim Gorman, who wrote the article on the CBO.
He's no novice.  He says the fourth join method is

1.  nested loops
2.  sort merge
3.  hash join

and

4.  cartesian product !

I kid you not.

By the way, if you're on 8i and haven't already set init parms
OPTIMIZER_INDEX_CACHING=90 and OPTIMIZER_INDEX_COST_ADJ to something between
10 and 50, you might really like this article he wrote, The Search for
Intelligent Life in the CBO.  Currently it's the fist article listed at
http://www.evdbt.com/library.htm

- Greg

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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-30 Thread Saurabh Sharma

i feel the fourth one is self join.

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 Hi,
 
 I just read there are four join methods.  I know three:
 
 Nested loops
 Sort merge
 Hash join
 
 What's the fourth?
 
 - Greg
 
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RE: 4 join methods?

2001-05-30 Thread Shevtsov, Eduard

Hi Greg,

Maybe they consider Cartesian as 4th method ? :-)

Ed

  
  
  Hi,
  
  I just read there are four join methods.  I know three:
  
  Nested loops
  Sort merge
  Hash join
  
  What's the fourth?
  
  - Greg
  
  -- 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
  -- 
  Author: Greg Moore
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
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Author: Shevtsov, Eduard
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Re: 4 join methods?

2001-05-30 Thread Rukmini Devi

1. Equi-join 2. Self-join 3. Outer-join  4. Hash-join

rukmini
- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:20 AM


 i feel the fourth one is self join.
 
 - Original Message - 
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:10 AM
 
 
  Hi,
  
  I just read there are four join methods.  I know three:
  
  Nested loops
  Sort merge
  Hash join
  
  What's the fourth?
  
  - Greg
  
  -- 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
  -- 
  Author: Greg Moore
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
  San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
  
  To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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  also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
 -- 
 Author: Saurabh Sharma
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Author: Rukmini Devi
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