RE: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore...
Yeah, I'd say that proportion would have worked in my group too. And when I interviewed others, I rarely got any great people applying, and it's almost solely because at that level, dollars were so much better as independents, and the only people who wanted to come were visa-sponsors or relative newbies. Again, I really had a great run there, and I'm grateful. (I don't know why I need to keep saying that.) And, I'd even probably go back if I could work out the salary. But I haven't tried. Anyway, still rambling, Yosi -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 4:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... Yosi, I interviewed for one of those jobs here in Boston, MA. Although there was one VERY good individual in the bunch I was a little perplexed by the others. Most were very junior and had not been in an outside shop before, one was straight out of school and bootcamp and only one had done a real recovery. It also hit me as strange that other than the smart guy, none of them had ever created a database from scratch. Thankfully I did not take the job. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/25/2001 11:52 AM From experience, I have used consultants from Oracle. The 1st one sent was right out of DBA school. We sent him back after 1 week. At that time, Oracle didn't allow you to interview their DBA's. According to Oracle, they were all good. The 2nd DBA Oracle sent had only NT experience, never been on a Unix machine. Ok, sent him back too. By this time, we were about to give up, then Oracle sent DBA #3 and she was sharp. The moral of the story, Oracle will send the juniors 1st b/c they save the good ones for the 3rd strike :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/25/01 03:01PM I was once one of those superior i-dba consultants. I was pretty good, and as with this list, some of my colleagues were amazingly talented, knowledgable and great to work with. Others were, well, others. It's lots of fun to ridicule, disparage, deride, belittle, and mock Oracle Consulting, and don't even get me started about Oracle Support, and I do this all the time too, I just want to put in a good word for SOME of my old friends. Have a great weekend. Yosi -Original Message- From: PD Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:58 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... I've just spent most of today repairing damage left at a site by some of Oracle's 'superior' consultants! At 8:27 -0800 25/5/01, Gary Weber wrote: Far as their superior i-dba team, I sure hope those are different people from the ones you get on first line of Support... Cheers Paul Miller -- - Banned and proud of it! Carib Data Limited mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.caribdata.co.uk -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: PD Miller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or
RE: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore...
Yeah, I think they've got a retention problem, since the money is better outside, and consultants have a good idea of what they're being billed for. But the internal resources are great, as are their internal email lists. Of course, now we've got much of their internal stuff on metalink - if you can get access - and the odtug lists and oracle-l are right up there too. All in all, I liked working there very very much, and if they'd been able to keep up with what the market was offering I never would have left. And for those of us looking now, we know where the market is going, and Oracle's salaries are getting more in line with everyone else's anyway. (Boy, am I rambling or what? I've got a migraine, the fiorinal didn't do it's usual magic, and I really ought to go home.) -Original Message- From: Hillman, Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... Oracle charges for such guys 250-350 an hour and pay them 50-90K/year (15-20% bonus and 4 weeks of training per year). I would say that Oracle DBA knowing what he or she is doing can make more money in consulting. Alex Hillman PS. It would be very useful if US participants of this list post their rates or salaries on www.realrates.com - it is fully anonimous. Also there is very interesting contractors BBS -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 4:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yosi, I interviewed for one of those jobs here in Boston, MA. Although there was one VERY good individual in the bunch I was a little perplexed by the others. Most were very junior and had not been in an outside shop before, one was straight out of school and bootcamp and only one had done a real recovery. It also hit me as strange that other than the smart guy, none of them had ever created a database from scratch. Thankfully I did not take the job. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/25/2001 11:52 AM From experience, I have used consultants from Oracle. The 1st one sent was right out of DBA school. We sent him back after 1 week. At that time, Oracle didn't allow you to interview their DBA's. According to Oracle, they were all good. The 2nd DBA Oracle sent had only NT experience, never been on a Unix machine. Ok, sent him back too. By this time, we were about to give up, then Oracle sent DBA #3 and she was sharp. The moral of the story, Oracle will send the juniors 1st b/c they save the good ones for the 3rd strike :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/25/01 03:01PM I was once one of those superior i-dba consultants. I was pretty good, and as with this list, some of my colleagues were amazingly talented, knowledgable and great to work with. Others were, well, others. It's lots of fun to ridicule, disparage, deride, belittle, and mock Oracle Consulting, and don't even get me started about Oracle Support, and I do this all the time too, I just want to put in a good word for SOME of my old friends. Have a great weekend. Yosi -Original Message- From: PD Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:58 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... I've just spent most of today repairing damage left at a site by some of Oracle's 'superior' consultants! At 8:27 -0800 25/5/01, Gary Weber wrote: Far as their superior i-dba team, I sure hope those are different people from the ones you get on first line of Support... Cheers Paul Miller -- - Banned and proud of it! Carib Data Limited mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.caribdata.co.uk -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: PD Miller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
RE: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore...
Thanks...after checking this site, I find out that I'm paid LOTS more than most of those bozos out there... 8-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/30/01 01:16PM Yeah, I think they've got a retention problem, since the money is better outside, and consultants have a good idea of what they're being billed for. But the internal resources are great, as are their internal email lists. Of course, now we've got much of their internal stuff on metalink - if you can get access - and the odtug lists and oracle-l are right up there too. All in all, I liked working there very very much, and if they'd been able to keep up with what the market was offering I never would have left. And for those of us looking now, we know where the market is going, and Oracle's salaries are getting more in line with everyone else's anyway. (Boy, am I rambling or what? I've got a migraine, the fiorinal didn't do it's usual magic, and I really ought to go home.) -Original Message- From: Hillman, Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... Oracle charges for such guys 250-350 an hour and pay them 50-90K/year (15-20% bonus and 4 weeks of training per year). I would say that Oracle DBA knowing what he or she is doing can make more money in consulting. Alex Hillman PS. It would be very useful if US participants of this list post their rates or salaries on www.realrates.com - it is fully anonimous. Also there is very interesting contractors BBS -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 4:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yosi, I interviewed for one of those jobs here in Boston, MA. Although there was one VERY good individual in the bunch I was a little perplexed by the others. Most were very junior and had not been in an outside shop before, one was straight out of school and bootcamp and only one had done a real recovery. It also hit me as strange that other than the smart guy, none of them had ever created a database from scratch. Thankfully I did not take the job. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/25/2001 11:52 AM From experience, I have used consultants from Oracle. The 1st one sent was right out of DBA school. We sent him back after 1 week. At that time, Oracle didn't allow you to interview their DBA's. According to Oracle, they were all good. The 2nd DBA Oracle sent had only NT experience, never been on a Unix machine. Ok, sent him back too. By this time, we were about to give up, then Oracle sent DBA #3 and she was sharp. The moral of the story, Oracle will send the juniors 1st b/c they save the good ones for the 3rd strike :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/25/01 03:01PM I was once one of those superior i-dba consultants. I was pretty good, and as with this list, some of my colleagues were amazingly talented, knowledgable and great to work with. Others were, well, others. It's lots of fun to ridicule, disparage, deride, belittle, and mock Oracle Consulting, and don't even get me started about Oracle Support, and I do this all the time too, I just want to put in a good word for SOME of my old friends. Have a great weekend. Yosi -Original Message- From: PD Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:58 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... I've just spent most of today repairing damage left at a site by some of Oracle's 'superior' consultants! At 8:27 -0800 25/5/01, Gary Weber wrote: Far as their superior i-dba team, I sure hope those are different people from the ones you get on first line of Support... Cheers Paul Miller -- - Banned and proud of it! Carib Data Limited mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.caribdata.co.uk -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: PD Miller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet
RE: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore...
This is a problem that not many people put their data. I did not do it myself for couple of years. Alex Hillman -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:31 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks...after checking this site, I find out that I'm paid LOTS more than most of those bozos out there... 8-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/30/01 01:16PM Yeah, I think they've got a retention problem, since the money is better outside, and consultants have a good idea of what they're being billed for. But the internal resources are great, as are their internal email lists. Of course, now we've got much of their internal stuff on metalink - if you can get access - and the odtug lists and oracle-l are right up there too. All in all, I liked working there very very much, and if they'd been able to keep up with what the market was offering I never would have left. And for those of us looking now, we know where the market is going, and Oracle's salaries are getting more in line with everyone else's anyway. (Boy, am I rambling or what? I've got a migraine, the fiorinal didn't do it's usual magic, and I really ought to go home.) -Original Message- From: Hillman, Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... Oracle charges for such guys 250-350 an hour and pay them 50-90K/year (15-20% bonus and 4 weeks of training per year). I would say that Oracle DBA knowing what he or she is doing can make more money in consulting. Alex Hillman PS. It would be very useful if US participants of this list post their rates or salaries on www.realrates.com - it is fully anonimous. Also there is very interesting contractors BBS -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 4:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yosi, I interviewed for one of those jobs here in Boston, MA. Although there was one VERY good individual in the bunch I was a little perplexed by the others. Most were very junior and had not been in an outside shop before, one was straight out of school and bootcamp and only one had done a real recovery. It also hit me as strange that other than the smart guy, none of them had ever created a database from scratch. Thankfully I did not take the job. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/25/2001 11:52 AM From experience, I have used consultants from Oracle. The 1st one sent was right out of DBA school. We sent him back after 1 week. At that time, Oracle didn't allow you to interview their DBA's. According to Oracle, they were all good. The 2nd DBA Oracle sent had only NT experience, never been on a Unix machine. Ok, sent him back too. By this time, we were about to give up, then Oracle sent DBA #3 and she was sharp. The moral of the story, Oracle will send the juniors 1st b/c they save the good ones for the 3rd strike :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/25/01 03:01PM I was once one of those superior i-dba consultants. I was pretty good, and as with this list, some of my colleagues were amazingly talented, knowledgable and great to work with. Others were, well, others. It's lots of fun to ridicule, disparage, deride, belittle, and mock Oracle Consulting, and don't even get me started about Oracle Support, and I do this all the time too, I just want to put in a good word for SOME of my old friends. Have a great weekend. Yosi -Original Message- From: PD Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:58 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... I've just spent most of today repairing damage left at a site by some of Oracle's 'superior' consultants! At 8:27 -0800 25/5/01, Gary Weber wrote: Far as their superior i-dba team, I sure hope those are different people from the ones you get on first line of Support... Cheers Paul Miller -- - Banned and proud of it! Carib Data Limited mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.caribdata.co.uk -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: PD Miller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing
Re: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore...
And for those of us looking now, we know where the market is going, and Oracle's salaries are getting more in line with everyone else's anyway. I'm about to start looking. Curious to know where you believe the market is going. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore...
Oracle charges for such guys 250-350 an hour and pay them 50-90K/year (15-20% bonus and 4 weeks of training per year). I would say that Oracle DBA knowing what he or she is doing can make more money in consulting. Alex Hillman PS. It would be very useful if US participants of this list post their rates or salaries on www.realrates.com - it is fully anonimous. Also there is very interesting contractors BBS -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 4:36 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yosi, I interviewed for one of those jobs here in Boston, MA. Although there was one VERY good individual in the bunch I was a little perplexed by the others. Most were very junior and had not been in an outside shop before, one was straight out of school and bootcamp and only one had done a real recovery. It also hit me as strange that other than the smart guy, none of them had ever created a database from scratch. Thankfully I did not take the job. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/25/2001 11:52 AM From experience, I have used consultants from Oracle. The 1st one sent was right out of DBA school. We sent him back after 1 week. At that time, Oracle didn't allow you to interview their DBA's. According to Oracle, they were all good. The 2nd DBA Oracle sent had only NT experience, never been on a Unix machine. Ok, sent him back too. By this time, we were about to give up, then Oracle sent DBA #3 and she was sharp. The moral of the story, Oracle will send the juniors 1st b/c they save the good ones for the 3rd strike :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/25/01 03:01PM I was once one of those superior i-dba consultants. I was pretty good, and as with this list, some of my colleagues were amazingly talented, knowledgable and great to work with. Others were, well, others. It's lots of fun to ridicule, disparage, deride, belittle, and mock Oracle Consulting, and don't even get me started about Oracle Support, and I do this all the time too, I just want to put in a good word for SOME of my old friends. Have a great weekend. Yosi -Original Message- From: PD Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:58 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Fire your DBA's you don't need them anymore... I've just spent most of today repairing damage left at a site by some of Oracle's 'superior' consultants! At 8:27 -0800 25/5/01, Gary Weber wrote: Far as their superior i-dba team, I sure hope those are different people from the ones you get on first line of Support... Cheers Paul Miller -- - Banned and proud of it! Carib Data Limited mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.caribdata.co.uk -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: PD Miller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
