Re: OT: Working from home
Unless I disremember, that is from Fred Brooks 'The Mythical Man Month' and referred to writing an IBM OS ( forget which one ), and was assembly code. This was for fully documented and unit tested code. And it was 6 lines, not 10. :) Jared On Monday 18 June 2001 05:00, Boivin, Patrice J wrote: Didn't IBM have a standard, something like a good programmer will produce ten lines of code per day? That was in the days before OOP, though. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Christopher Spence [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 2:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: OT: Working from home My theory is this. A loosely used ratio for performance reviews. (Number of Bugs Resolved x Number of Projects x Number of lines of code - (Bugs introduced in your code x 500)) But use this with a grain of salt as many things are involved in programming and lines of codes, bugs, and number of products are all relative to the current situation. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 3:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Friday 15 June 2001 06:00, Rachel Carmichael wrote: There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Rachel, Remember the Dilbert where the PHB tells the engineers that he'll pay a cash incentive for every bug the find and fix? Wally leave the meaning saying I'm gonna code me a minivan! As for lines of code, one could get even by writing succint obtuse code before leaving. ;) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Working from home
I have fond memories of writing 1300 lines of code in one 12 hour day a few years back. This was a front end to a DOS version of RCS ( or something like RCS ) and it was for versioning an entire set of application code. Written in a compiled language called 'Force'. It even worked when I was done, and was useful for a a few years. It wasn't very well documented though... Must be the hubris getting to me, it's a programmers disease. ;) Jared On Monday 18 June 2001 08:16, Guy Hammond wrote: I believe that was counting lines of code per person/day over the entire development lifecycle, so some days you actually write no code because you were writing documentation, or sitting in meetings eating donuts or whatever. COBOL can actually be measured fairly well in terms of lines of code per function point, and old-style lead programmers would submit an estimate of lines of code needed at the beginning of a project, according to one of my grad school professors who used to run a mainframe shop at a hospital. Kinda meaningless in a 4GL/RAD/CASE world, tho'. g. -Original Message- Sent: 18 June 2001 13:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Didn't IBM have a standard, something like a good programmer will produce ten lines of code per day? That was in the days before OOP, though. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Working from home
Hehehe! My record is 125 PL/SQL procedures in a day. Lost count of the lines of code. But I had VIM to help me... Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den - Original Message - I have fond memories of writing 1300 lines of code in one 12 hour day a few years back. This was a front -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
Blah, I do about 2,000 lines just during lunch on a napkin before I go back to work. And I ussually put it on two napkins, one in assembly and one in a high level language like c++ so other people can read it. One time, I actually had to disassemble Oracle.exe as there was some code I didn't like and I needed to tune it. Since then, it runs 5 times faster. I benchmarked vrs 9i, and it was like no comparison. Cripes, the application that runs on it doesn't even have an interface, it just displays raw assembly like the matrix, it is extemely quick. All activity is entered directly into the registers. Since all the problms with windows lately, I decided to just write my own OS. I call it WinBlows, it has this custom (Patent Pending) agent that will severe connection immediately on any StupidUser (TM) errors. It will take a single cpu system and have it perform like a virtual quad processor machine. Since there is no interface, surfing the web is done through machine code socket calls directly through the hardware. Driver compatibility is a thing of the past since there are no drivers, there are no compatibility issues. It is great. Plus it is completely open source too. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have fond memories of writing 1300 lines of code in one 12 hour day a few years back. This was a front end to a DOS version of RCS ( or something like RCS ) and it was for versioning an entire set of application code. Written in a compiled language called 'Force'. It even worked when I was done, and was useful for a a few years. It wasn't very well documented though... Must be the hubris getting to me, it's a programmers disease. ;) Jared On Monday 18 June 2001 08:16, Guy Hammond wrote: I believe that was counting lines of code per person/day over the entire development lifecycle, so some days you actually write no code because you were writing documentation, or sitting in meetings eating donuts or whatever. COBOL can actually be measured fairly well in terms of lines of code per function point, and old-style lead programmers would submit an estimate of lines of code needed at the beginning of a project, according to one of my grad school professors who used to run a mainframe shop at a hospital. Kinda meaningless in a 4GL/RAD/CASE world, tho'. g. -Original Message- Sent: 18 June 2001 13:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Didn't IBM have a standard, something like a good programmer will produce ten lines of code per day? That was in the days before OOP, though. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
LOL! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:07 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Blah, I do about 2,000 lines just during lunch on a napkin before I go back to work. And I ussually put it on two napkins, one in assembly and one in a high level language like c++ so other people can read it. One time, I actually had to disassemble Oracle.exe as there was some code I didn't like and I needed to tune it. Since then, it runs 5 times faster. I benchmarked vrs 9i, and it was like no comparison. Cripes, the application that runs on it doesn't even have an interface, it just displays raw assembly like the matrix, it is extemely quick. All activity is entered directly into the registers. Since all the problms with windows lately, I decided to just write my own OS. I call it WinBlows, it has this custom (Patent Pending) agent that will severe connection immediately on any StupidUser (TM) errors. It will take a single cpu system and have it perform like a virtual quad processor machine. Since there is no interface, surfing the web is done through machine code socket calls directly through the hardware. Driver compatibility is a thing of the past since there are no drivers, there are no compatibility issues. It is great. Plus it is completely open source too. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have fond memories of writing 1300 lines of code in one 12 hour day a few years back. This was a front end to a DOS version of RCS ( or something like RCS ) and it was for versioning an entire set of application code. Written in a compiled language called 'Force'. It even worked when I was done, and was useful for a a few years. It wasn't very well documented though... Must be the hubris getting to me, it's a programmers disease. ;) Jared On Monday 18 June 2001 08:16, Guy Hammond wrote: I believe that was counting lines of code per person/day over the entire development lifecycle, so some days you actually write no code because you were writing documentation, or sitting in meetings eating donuts or whatever. COBOL can actually be measured fairly well in terms of lines of code per function point, and old-style lead programmers would submit an estimate of lines of code needed at the beginning of a project, according to one of my grad school professors who used to run a mainframe shop at a hospital. Kinda meaningless in a 4GL/RAD/CASE world, tho'. g. -Original Message- Sent: 18 June 2001 13:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Didn't IBM have a standard, something like a good programmer will produce ten lines of code per day? That was in the days before OOP, though. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
Didn't IBM have a standard, something like a good programmer will produce ten lines of code per day? That was in the days before OOP, though. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Christopher Spence [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 2:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: OT: Working from home My theory is this. A loosely used ratio for performance reviews. (Number of Bugs Resolved x Number of Projects x Number of lines of code - (Bugs introduced in your code x 500)) But use this with a grain of salt as many things are involved in programming and lines of codes, bugs, and number of products are all relative to the current situation. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 3:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Friday 15 June 2001 06:00, Rachel Carmichael wrote: There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Rachel, Remember the Dilbert where the PHB tells the engineers that he'll pay a cash incentive for every bug the find and fix? Wally leave the meaning saying I'm gonna code me a minivan! As for lines of code, one could get even by writing succint obtuse code before leaving. ;) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
Yeah, now it's one line per day. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, 18 June 2001 13:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Didn't IBM have a standard, something like a good programmer will produce ten lines of code per day? That was in the days before OOP, though. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Christopher Spence [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 2:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: OT: Working from home My theory is this. A loosely used ratio for performance reviews. (Number of Bugs Resolved x Number of Projects x Number of lines of code - (Bugs introduced in your code x 500)) But use this with a grain of salt as many things are involved in programming and lines of codes, bugs, and number of products are all relative to the current situation. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 3:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Friday 15 June 2001 06:00, Rachel Carmichael wrote: There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Rachel, Remember the Dilbert where the PHB tells the engineers that he'll pay a cash incentive for every bug the find and fix? Wally leave the meaning saying I'm gonna code me a minivan! As for lines of code, one could get even by writing succint obtuse code before leaving. ;) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing)... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Solomon INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
RE: OT: Working from home
They also used to rate their people by the number of KLOC's produced by their people in a rating period. KLOC's stands for (K) Thousand (L) Lines (O) of (C) code. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/18/01 09:10AM Yeah, now it's one line per day. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, 18 June 2001 13:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Didn't IBM have a standard, something like a good programmer will produce ten lines of code per day? That was in the days before OOP, though. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Christopher Spence [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 2:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: OT: Working from home My theory is this. A loosely used ratio for performance reviews. (Number of Bugs Resolved x Number of Projects x Number of lines of code - (Bugs introduced in your code x 500)) But use this with a grain of salt as many things are involved in programming and lines of codes, bugs, and number of products are all relative to the current situation. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 3:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Friday 15 June 2001 06:00, Rachel Carmichael wrote: There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Rachel, Remember the Dilbert where the PHB tells the engineers that he'll pay a cash incentive for every bug the find and fix? Wally leave the meaning saying I'm gonna code me a minivan! As for lines of code, one could get even by writing succint obtuse code before leaving. ;) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing)... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Solomon INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
RE: OT: Working from home
I believe that was counting lines of code per person/day over the entire development lifecycle, so some days you actually write no code because you were writing documentation, or sitting in meetings eating donuts or whatever. COBOL can actually be measured fairly well in terms of lines of code per function point, and old-style lead programmers would submit an estimate of lines of code needed at the beginning of a project, according to one of my grad school professors who used to run a mainframe shop at a hospital. Kinda meaningless in a 4GL/RAD/CASE world, tho'. g. -Original Message- Sent: 18 June 2001 13:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Didn't IBM have a standard, something like a good programmer will produce ten lines of code per day? That was in the days before OOP, though. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Guy Hammond INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Working from home
On Friday 15 June 2001 06:00, Rachel Carmichael wrote: There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Rachel, Remember the Dilbert where the PHB tells the engineers that he'll pay a cash incentive for every bug the find and fix? Wally leave the meaning saying I'm gonna code me a minivan! As for lines of code, one could get even by writing succint obtuse code before leaving. ;) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
My theory is this. A loosely used ratio for performance reviews. (Number of Bugs Resolved x Number of Projects x Number of lines of code - (Bugs introduced in your code x 500)) But use this with a grain of salt as many things are involved in programming and lines of codes, bugs, and number of products are all relative to the current situation. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 3:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Friday 15 June 2001 06:00, Rachel Carmichael wrote: There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Rachel, Remember the Dilbert where the PHB tells the engineers that he'll pay a cash incentive for every bug the find and fix? Wally leave the meaning saying I'm gonna code me a minivan! As for lines of code, one could get even by writing succint obtuse code before leaving. ;) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
Come on Rachel. You mean that lines of code is not a good measure of a programmer's productivity? Next thing you'll tell me the its not the number of pages that makes a book good? :- (fleeing for my life) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Nuno, you are preaching to the choir here I think :) There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Truly. And they wondered why people kept quitting on her. From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:53 -0800 - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was sitting at our desks rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and metrics being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an architect or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their inconvenience in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily fail? They can't even accurately define failure nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Toepke, Kevin M INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
well, there are different rules for different things... it's not the number of pages, it's the number of words :) back in the early days of pulp fiction, writers were paid by the word, not the story... the more words, the more money. Made for very very detailed stories :) From: Toepke, Kevin M [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:05:52 -0800 Come on Rachel. You mean that lines of code is not a good measure of a programmer's productivity? Next thing you'll tell me the its not the number of pages that makes a book good? :- (fleeing for my life) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Nuno, you are preaching to the choir here I think :) There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Truly. And they wondered why people kept quitting on her. From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:53 -0800 - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was sitting at our desks rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and metrics being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an architect or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their inconvenience in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily fail? They can't even accurately define failure nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Toepke, Kevin M INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself
RE: OT: Working from home
so then if you use a REAL SMALL Font(like this msg), then you can get more word with less pages per book and make more? Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 11:51AM well, there are different rules for different things... it's not the number of pages, it's the number of words :)back in the early days of pulp fiction, writers were paid by the word, not the story... the more words, the more money. Made for very very detailed stories :)From: "Toepke, Kevin M" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: OT: Working from homeDate: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:05:52 -0800Come on Rachel. You mean that lines of code is not a good measure of aprogrammer's productivity? Next thing you'll tell me the its not the numberof pages that makes a book good? :-(fleeing for my life)-Original Message-Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:01 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LNuno, you are preaching to the choir here I think :)There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilitiesby the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once"I don't like to waste time on design"Truly. And they wondered why people kept quitting on her. From: "Nuno Souto" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:53 -0800 - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was "sitting at our desks" rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and "metrics" being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an "architect" or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their "inconvenience" in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily "fail"? They can't even accurately define "failure" nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing)._Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Toepke, Kevin M INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing)._Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-
RE: OT: Working from home
One of my favorites is divying up how I spent my time each week. If a project has a problem and I spend 4 hours researching it before solving it, that is 4 hours to the project. But if I happened across that problem during my normal reading and research (i.e. this group or other web sites) that is 5 minutes to the project. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 6:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was sitting at our desks rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and metrics being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an architect or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their inconvenience in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily fail? They can't even accurately define failure nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
Lets not get into how we divied up time . otherwise I will be here for days !! We had to account for each 15 minute block . and THAT was when we were working in the office ! Our time sheets took, on average, about 2 hours out of each 2 week period to prepare. In my new job, they have us put a check on the day we were here and a check in a different box if it was vacation or whatever. Our time sheets take about 10 seconds. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 11:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L One of my favorites is divying up how I spent my time each week. If a project has a problem and I spend 4 hours researching it before solving it, that is 4 hours to the project. But if I happened across that problem during my normal reading and research (i.e. this group or other web sites) that is 5 minutes to the project. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 6:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was sitting at our desks rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and metrics being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an architect or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their inconvenience in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily fail? They can't even accurately define failure nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
only when you write magazine articles or short stories. :) From: JOE TESTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:31:12 -0800 so then if you use a REAL SMALL Font(like this msg), then you can get more word with less pages per book and make more? Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 11:51AM well, there are different rules for different things... it's not the number of pages, it's the number of words :) back in the early days of pulp fiction, writers were paid by the word, not the story... the more words, the more money. Made for very very detailed stories :) From: Toepke, Kevin M [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:05:52 -0800 Come on Rachel. You mean that lines of code is not a good measure of a programmer's productivity? Next thing you'll tell me the its not the number of pages that makes a book good? :- (fleeing for my life) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Nuno, you are preaching to the choir here I think :) There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Truly. And they wondered why people kept quitting on her. From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:53 -0800 - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was sitting at our desks rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and metrics being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an architect or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their inconvenience in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily fail? They can't even accurately define failure nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Toepke, Kevin M INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send
RE: OT: Working from home
Number of pages has absolutely no bearring on a good book. Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 11:06 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Come on Rachel. You mean that lines of code is not a good measure of a programmer's productivity? Next thing you'll tell me the its not the number of pages that makes a book good? :- (fleeing for my life) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Nuno, you are preaching to the choir here I think :) There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Truly. And they wondered why people kept quitting on her. From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:53 -0800 - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was sitting at our desks rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and metrics being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an architect or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their inconvenience in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily fail? They can't even accurately define failure nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Toepke, Kevin M INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
I remember when I was in 10th grade, and we had an assignment to write a paper that was to be three pages "double spaced". I didn't know what double spaced meant (and, being a boy, was too stupid to ask - no comments from the smart women out there) that I typed it with double spaces between each word. Was this a bad thing? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message-From: JOE TESTA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:31 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: OT: Working from home so then if you use a REAL SMALL Font(like this msg), then you can get more word with less pages per book and make more? Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 11:51AM well, there are different rules for different things... it's not the number of pages, it's the number of words :)back in the early days of pulp fiction, writers were paid by the word, not the story... the more words, the more money. Made for very very detailed stories :)From: "Toepke, Kevin M" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: OT: Working from homeDate: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:05:52 -0800Come on Rachel. You mean that lines of code is not a good measure of aprogrammer's productivity? Next thing you'll tell me the its not the numberof pages that makes a book good? :-(fleeing for my life)-Original Message-Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:01 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LNuno, you are preaching to the choir here I think :)There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilitiesby the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once"I don't like to waste time on design"Truly. And they wondered why people kept quitting on her. From: "Nuno Souto" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:53 -0800 - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was "sitting at our desks" rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and "metrics" being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an "architect" or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their "inconvenience" in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily "fail"? They can't even accurately define "failure" nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing)._Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Toepke, Kevin M INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538
RE: OT: Working from home
Number of pages has absolutely no bearring on a good book. Does the number of pages have a bearing on how well the database is administered?? ;) Hey, it's Friday and I always say Weak humor is better than no humor at all. Mike If I wasn't laughing, I'd be crying Hand Polaroid Corp. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Hand, Michael T INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
At least you got certified! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I remember when I was in 10th grade, and we had an assignment to write a paper that was to be three pages double spaced. I didn't know what double spaced meant (and, being a boy, was too stupid to ask - no comments from the smart women out there) that I typed it with double spaces between each word. Was this a bad thing? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:31 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L so then if you use a REAL SMALL Font(like this msg), then you can get more word with less pages per book and make more? Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 11:51AM well, there are different rules for different things... it's not the number of pages, it's the number of words :) back in the early days of pulp fiction, writers were paid by the word, not the story... the more words, the more money. Made for very very detailed stories :) From: Toepke, Kevin M [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:05:52 -0800 Come on Rachel. You mean that lines of code is not a good measure of a programmer's productivity? Next thing you'll tell me the its not the number of pages that makes a book good? :- (fleeing for my life) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Nuno, you are preaching to the choir here I think :) There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Truly. And they wondered why people kept quitting on her. From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:53 -0800 - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was sitting at our desks rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and metrics being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an architect or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their inconvenience in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily fail? They can't even accurately define failure nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Toepke, Kevin M INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego
RE: OT: Working from home
You just reminded me - when I was in one of the early grades I was given a punishment and had to write 50 lines (I will not ... in class). I was pretty scared, pretty embarrassed, went home used a ruler and drew 50 (more or less) straight lines and handed that in, but I don't remember what happened after that Chk. Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/15/2001 02:49:14 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Chaim Katz/Completions/Bombardier) I remember when I was in 10th grade, and we had an assignment to write a paper that was to be three pages double spaced. I didn't know what double spaced meant (and, being a boy, was too stupid to ask - no comments from the smart women out there) that I typed it with double spaces between each word. Was this a bad thing? Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:31 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L so then if you use a REAL SMALL Font(like this msg), then you can get more word with less pages per book and make more? Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/15/01 11:51AM well, there are different rules for different things... it's not the number of pages, it's the number of words :) back in the early days of pulp fiction, writers were paid by the word, not the story... the more words, the more money. Made for very very detailed stories :) From: Toepke, Kevin M [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:05:52 -0800 Come on Rachel. You mean that lines of code is not a good measure of a programmer's productivity? Next thing you'll tell me the its not the number of pages that makes a book good? :- (fleeing for my life) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Nuno, you are preaching to the choir here I think :) There was a manager in that same shop who measured her programmers abilities by the number of lines of code they wrote in a day. She also said to me once I don't like to waste time on design Truly. And they wondered why people kept quitting on her. From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Working from home Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:45:53 -0800 - Original Message - So we all lied a lot. And this was sitting at our desks rant That IMHO is the main flaw of all these new management techniques and metrics being pushed by methodology reps. They are very good when dealing with coal face workers. They haven't got a chance in hell of accurately representing working patterns when dealing with a technical job. Most of them are extrapolated from factory environments, where the amount of work is easy to measure in terms of units/hour. Since none of them even make an effort at defining what's a unit of work for a DBA or a designer or an architect or even an analyst, they fail miserably in properly tracking this type of job. Result? Totally incorrect project metrics and cost extrapolations. Corollary? Make these jobs disappear because of their inconvenience in fitting a flawed model. Not fix the model. And they wonder why projects can easily fail? They can't even accurately define failure nowadays! /rant Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line
Re: OT: Working from home
Number of pages has absolutely no bearring on a good book. Yes it does. I don't like ones with too many! ;-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Greg Moore INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Working from home
I can top that one! My first real Oracle job was at a company that was trying to convert from being a mainframe service bureau to becoming an open systems software vendor - when Oracle and open systems were near heresy in the business world. Only one other person and myself in the entire company were doing this non-traditional work. The rest couldn't understand why their twenty-some year old standard form didn't work for us. (it didn't actually work for them either, but they were comfortable with it.) The time sheet was broken up into 0.1 hour increments. Yup! Six minutes! Every entry had to have 17 individual mandatory fields filled in - machine#, job#, client#, runtime, function code, service code, progress state, authorization#, ad nauseum. None of it made any sense to me. Every code was a two, or three, or more digit number. There were yellow antiquated hardcopy lookup sheets for some of them. For some, there wasn't even a sheet! There were 87 different function codes, no lookup, and nobody knew what most of them meant. In addition, they had written a custom application in Unisys Mapper to help people enter their time. Every technical employee was mandated to go the Mapper terminal in the public area in programmer's alley (a hallway lined on both sides with office doors - yes! We had offices, not cubes!) and enter their time - preferably on a daily basis, at least weekly. I made the mistake of commenting on the user-hostility of the Mapper app to the person showing me how to use it - before I knew that he had designed and written it! No lookups? No data validation? (It just rejected the entire lot when you committed if there were any mistakes, like leaving off a leading zero!) There wasn't even any obviously meaningful boilerplate text on the screen! He retorted, Its simple! Just hit the XMIT key, go to the upper left corner, type g,,6,,1,,,employee number, then hit GO. That gets you to the main screen. Now to get to the time entry screen, type... and so on for another ten minutes of verbal instructions to show how to enter a *six minute* time quanta! His entire monologue sounded to me like someone trying to translate ancient hebrew to hexidecimal. There were, of course, NO written instructions. The first time I tried to enter a week's worth of time, I spent almost a full day on it and was in a very serious state of frustration! Since I wasn't actually working on anything billable to a client, but rather on designing and building a new line of Oracle-based software products to be offered for sale at some later date, none of this really applied anyway. Finally, some kind soul told me that nobody ever read the details anyway and that they were only useful for the automated billing programs . I tried just not doing them, but soon found out that there was a summary report showing hours worked by employee - by day, week, and month - that management actually looked at, so that didn't fly. The aforementioned kind soul then helped further by showing me how to copy an entire day of entries to the next day (the only useful feature of the program!). I just put in a bunch of activities under obscure categories that were a complete mystery to everyone (e.g. QUALITY CIRCLE?), used the function codes that nobody could explain, etc. I loaded up a day of this gibberish and just copied it every day for the next year or so! Since the total hours showed up on the one report that they actually looked at, management never again complained! After about a year of this nonsense, I redesigned and rewrote the entire beast in SQL*Forms 2 and Oracle over a three day weekend. I cleaned up the design, made it infinitely more usable, eliminated all the obsolete codes, replaced the others with semi-meaningful words, created lookups and defaults on fields, and generally updated the entire mess by about 25-30 years. (I kept the clone-a-day feature though!) Management loved it. They wanted to make it a commercial product, which I barely managed to discourage. It is still the project of which I am most ashamed. -Don Granaman [OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:40 PM Lets not get into how we divied up time . otherwise I will be here for days !! We had to account for each 15 minute block . and THAT was when we were working in the office ! Our time sheets took, on average, about 2 hours out of each 2 week period to prepare. In my new job, they have us put a check on the day we were here and a check in a different box if it was vacation or whatever. Our time sheets take about 10 seconds. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
Re: OT: Working from home
- Original Message - After all, how do they manage accountability when you are in the office? By the number of hours you sit at your desk or by the work that gets done, to deadline and correctly? In Australia, unfortunately it's the first option. Most managers wouldn't have a clue what amount of work we do unless they see us sitting at a desk for hours on end... We still have a long way to go in this country when it comes to getting smart management. Company benefits: I work more hours (since I'm not commuting). More work That alone should make a HUGE difference. Nowadays, I find myself sitting inside a car or train nearly 3.5 hours per day. Time that is unproductive to anyone. That's more than a third of a normal working day that is wasted, *EVERY SINGLE DAY*, by the vast majority of commuting workers. Yet does it ever get addressed by companies or politicians? No way, too hard basket. And the solution is so simple. Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Working from home
I actually work for a company that is ok with working from home and have done it but I am now at a client that was quite insistent that everyone be here from 8-5. So we all pretty much said ok and we all now work much less hours. Sucks to be them. VPN is a god send though. When I have to take calls in the middle of the night its nice to be able to check the database and then tell the person off on the phone (1st tier support) for not doing their job because there is no database issue. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Wed, 13 Jun 2001,Rachel Carmichael scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: -After all, how do they manage accountability when you are in the office? By -the number of hours you sit at your desk or by the work that gets done, to -deadline and correctly? in my case the former... damagement is more interested in seeing my smiling face than in how much gets done while i'm here. - -Communication: before I got a cable modem and VPN, I had two phone lines and -an email pager. (I still do, but use the VPN now). So I was dialed in on -one, and had the other free for office communication. We have office email -and my pager. I let them know if I have to go out for any reason. I am -ALWAYS available by pager. Yes, even on vacation. I'd rather take time out -of vacation to do a fast fix of a problem than let it wait until I get back -and find it has festered into a major problem. well, i have a cell phone and a pager [with an email address but no reply capability.] so when i'm on the phone dialed in i can talk on the cell and still get a page. problem: they complain how much i use the cell. and no i'm not changing the .sig.;-) -- Bill Shrek Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. ~~ Abstraction is achieved by data hiding and enforced by encapsulation. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Working from home
Accountability: My boss judges by the fact that work gets done. I am treated as a responsible adult and he figures that I know what has to be done and will get the work done. They tend to let me manage myself in any case, onsite or telecommuting. He also knows that I am often working from home after hours and weekends, because that's when the work has to be done. After all, how do they manage accountability when you are in the office? By the number of hours you sit at your desk or by the work that gets done, to deadline and correctly? Communication: before I got a cable modem and VPN, I had two phone lines and an email pager. (I still do, but use the VPN now). So I was dialed in on one, and had the other free for office communication. We have office email and my pager. I let them know if I have to go out for any reason. I am ALWAYS available by pager. Yes, even on vacation. I'd rather take time out of vacation to do a fast fix of a problem than let it wait until I get back and find it has festered into a major problem. Unforseen problems: Couldn't get a dial-in connection higher than 33.3, the modem on the office side kept disconnecting me. Hard to understand conversations when in a conference call (can't tell who is speaking) Company benefits: I work more hours (since I'm not commuting). More work gets done because I am not interrupted constantly by people at my desk with a quick question (one day I AM going to install one of those take a number machines). I'm a happier camper in general, and therefore more willing to put in extra onsite hours when they ask, because I know they will accomodate my requests for adjusted schedule. That help some? From: Willett, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: Working from home Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:00:20 -0800 Hi All, I have a few off-topic questions for those of you who are allowed to work from home either occasionally or on a regular basis. My department is putting a proposal together to present to management and we're looking for any information you could provide. How did you handle accountability? How did you handle communication between work and home? What were some of the unforeseen problems that you encountered? Were there any specific company benefits? (This appears to be more a benefit to the employee than to the company.) Thanks to all who can reply. Mark Production:In Progress: Oracle 7.3.4.4 Oracle 8i Oracle Apps (Fin/Mfg) 10.7SC Oracle Apps (Fin/Mfg) 11.5.3 Sun Solaris 2.6Sun Solaris 8 (2.8) Mark Willett Corporate Database Administrator - Sunnen Products Company 7910 Manchester Ave Maplewood, Missouri 63143 USA Voice: 314.781.2100 x2429 Fax: 314.951.2749 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The statements and opinions expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Sunnen Products Company. --- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Willett, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Working from home
Yep, allowed to work from home, but prefer working at the office. Accountability We have mutual trust between management and techies. I've got a pager and am on call 24x7. Work that has been assigned to us gets done and as long as it's done we're ok. We try extra hard not to break this trust because working from home is a privilege so it turns out that when I do work from home, I end up working extra hours and seems to me extra hard. Communication I have a seperate line so that I can telnet to our servers. A cell phone and pager by my side so that I am always available and email. For meetings, we can conference in. If I need to attend a meeting, I'll come into the office. Company has also offered DSL lines. Unforseen Circumstances None so far Benefits I believe it increases productivity since I work harder at home simply because I don't want the privilege revoked. I don't abuse the system. Again, it's a reponsibility thing. You'll find some folk who'll abuse the system so you'll have to pick people you (management) can trust. Biggest benefit I can see is to the company. Have a benefit like this available makes one want to stay i.e. easier to keep people from leaving. I think if you've got management that is open to new ideas and trusting of employees this will work. Other benefits to company include obvious stuff like reduce office space etc. Just my opinions. --- Willett, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I have a few off-topic questions for those of you who are allowed to work from home either occasionally or on a regular basis. My department is putting a proposal together to present to management and we're looking for any information you could provide. How did you handle accountability? How did you handle communication between work and home? What were some of the unforeseen problems that you encountered? Were there any specific company benefits? (This appears to be more a benefit to the employee than to the company.) Thanks to all who can reply. Mark Production: In Progress: Oracle 7.3.4.4Oracle 8i Oracle Apps (Fin/Mfg) 10.7SC Oracle Apps (Fin/Mfg) 11.5.3 Sun Solaris 2.6 Sun Solaris 8 (2.8) Mark Willett Corporate Database Administrator - Sunnen Products Company 7910 Manchester Ave Maplewood, Missouri 63143 USA Voice: 314.781.2100 x2429 Fax: 314.951.2749 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The statements and opinions expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Sunnen Products Company. --- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Willett, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mohammed bhatti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT: Working from home
Mark, Well, in order to give you my 2 cents worth, lets answer those in order: Accountability: Work needs be get done whether in office or at home. If it gets done and db's are running well, it shouldn't matter where it gets done from. This is very hard for some managers to understand and one of the reasons I left my last job. If the manager is open to results-based management, this won't be a problem. We also overcome some of this by over-communicating when working at home. For example things that don't generally warrant an e-mail when in the office, (like adding space to a tbs that is causing IWatch to chirp) get a quick "FYI, I took care of X" while working from home. Communication: Our telecomm guys set us up so our phones can be set to ring at home. Thus for the in-office user who calls our 4-digit extention, they don't even know we are sitting at home in shorts/t-shirt.You also need a second line so you can be connected all day and still answer your phone. Unforeseen problems. 1) What to do it remote access is down? If ETA is all day, drag yourself to the office. If 1-2 hours, read white papers/manuals, work on status report, project plan or anything else that you can do with software on your home pc. 2) What if a meeting is scheduled on your work at home day? Have someone conference call you in. That is widely accepted in our company as we have a lot of projects that involve people at different locations. Specific company benefits: 1) happier dba's = less turn-over. Personally I work from home 1-day per week and enjoy the extra timeand gas saved from not driving. I also like wearing shorts and t-shirt. 2) In many bigger cities, bigger companies are required to work on reducing the number of "single occupant vehicle miles" driven by their employees. Generally companies will encourage carpooling, bus riding, etc, but they also get credit for regular telecommuters. In some areas, this is actually a huge motivator for companies. 3) I find I generally start work earlier and stop later when I'm at home. Also lack of typical office interruptions makes this a good time for anything that requires concentration. HTH Stephen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/13/01 03:00PM Hi All,I have a few off-topic questions for those of you who are allowed to workfrom home either occasionally or on a regular basis. My department isputting a proposal together to present to management and we're looking forany information you could provide. How did you handle accountability? Howdid you handle communication between work and home? What were some of theunforeseen problems that you encountered? Were there any specific companybenefits? (This appears to be more a benefit to the employee than to thecompany.) Thanks to all who can reply.MarkProduction: In Progress:Oracle 7.3.4.4 Oracle 8iOracle Apps (Fin/Mfg) 10.7SC Oracle Apps (Fin/Mfg) 11.5.3Sun Solaris 2.6 Sun Solaris 8 (2.8)Mark WillettCorporate Database Administrator- Sunnen Products Company 7910 Manchester Ave Maplewood, Missouri 63143 USA Voice: 314.781.2100 x2429 Fax: 314.951.2749 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]The statements and opinions expressed herein are my own and do notnecessarily reflect those of Sunnen Products Company. --- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: Willett, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
