Re: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to
Scott, Your posts to this list have been prolific today. Thanks for sharing your expertise, I hope we can hear more from you on occasion. Thanks Jared On Friday 11 May 2001 13:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric, Sales and marketing have 1 job and that is to sell and market. These marketing things are teasers not necessarily giving detailed information. I have not checked but there may be some Oracle9i stuff on OLN. I think OLN has a trial membership (for 30 days?). However I am not sure of the detail. ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to
Eric D. Pierce wrote: Summary Self-tuning, self-managing Oracle9i monitors your system to provide high availability, reliability and minimized downtime. Whether you are a hosting service, in-house data center, or IT organization, you can rely on Oracle9i and its system management products to provide optimal quality of service to all users. Eric, I believe that I see the emergence of new BOFH excuse of the day material: (I will quote from a former life - Chemical Process Control - An Introduction to Theory and Practice. I knew that someday, Laplace Transforms would be somehow useful. Hello again, imaginary numbers.) Windup-error Here the tuning interval was so large, that the disturbances experienced recently are so diluted by the non-peak time intervals that the ability to discern problems is like trying to find a bomb the size of a lipstick container in all of the purses in a New York commute morning. analogy - cache hit ratios when correlated subqueries are reusing cursors/code billions of times. concepts - autoextending datafiles that cannot reuse extents - purely capacitive process. Dead time Well, if init.ora parameters are only changed when the instance is terminated, uptime = dead time, in a self-tuning paradigm. analogy #1 - unplugging the leads to the controller mechanism. analogy #2 - disconnecting the phone, power off the cell phone, close the email client. Phase Lag an offset between the input and output signals. analogy - a dog chasing his/her tail - but never quite catching it. In further detail, the distance between the dog snout and tip of the tail, divided by the circumference of the perimeter of the (outer) circling dog fur (in radians). M ... pie. Crossover Frequency This has nothing to do with bisexuals. It has to do with system stability once the control loop is closed. If the gain margin at the crossover frequency is too large, the system will be unstable. In this case, the operating system and DBA will be blamed. Open loop tuning = advice Closed loop tuning = implemented advice, now put to the test. Consultants have long since left. Run. We don't actually implement solutions, we just recommend them. Amplitude Ratio This has to do with a self-tuning mechanism, and rival tuning goals of server and user processes competing for resources (e.g. memory). A critically dampened tuning algorithm will overshoot the optimal target by 17% and converge on the ideal solution without a sinousoidal response signal. Most others will oscillate in a perpertual fashion. Unfortunately, a 17% overestimation in available memory will cause the paging daemon to chime in, causing the DBA and SysAdmin to disable the auto-tuning in favor of going with what has worked for the past nn years. The Bhopal disaster (MIC) was caused when field personnel disabled 3 layers of control systems and additional safety systems. You can't optimize globally and tune locally. Maybe the holistic method has a point. Acronyms P Proportional Control PI Proportional Integral Control PD Proportional Derivative Control PID Proportional Integral Derivative Control Bode stability criterion we'll save that for the advanced session. Tune in tomorrow. Paul used to be a Chem Engr. Database Blowups are far better than Chemical Process Industry plant blowups. AFAIK, no one has died from a database crash. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Drake INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to
Paul, Clarification: I didn't write the material, I was just posting an excerpt from an Oracle document. Anyway, I vastly enjoyed your comments. so. I take it that you also found the lack of detail about self tuning to be problematic. :) Presumably we now have a lot to look forward to in terms of reading Oracle9i tuning documentation, scattered stuff in a bewildering variety of official Oracle manuals, various tech notes, TAR dialogues, suport forums, listservs, and of course 3rd party tuning books. I love the madness! Thanks for the very generous offer of help w/ Veritas/Win2K. Will ponder after talking to the Win2k SA folks. Since the Veritas Win2K BE Oracle agent are fairly cheap, and we get an almost 1/2 off education discount, we are buying it. regards, ep On 10 May 2001, at 23:35, Paul Drake wrote: Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:35:21 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric D. Pierce wrote: [excerpted from: http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/database/9i/continuity/index.html?manageas.html ] Summary Self-tuning, self-managing Oracle9i monitors your system to provide high availability, reliability and minimized downtime. Whether you are a hosting service, in-house data center, or IT organization, you can rely on Oracle9i and its system management products to provide optimal quality of service to all users. Eric, I believe that I see the emergence of new BOFH excuse of the day material: ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to
Eric, Sales and marketing have 1 job and that is to sell and market. These marketing things are teasers not necessarily giving detailed information. I have not checked but there may be some Oracle9i stuff on OLN. I think OLN has a trial membership (for 30 days?). However I am not sure of the detail. I do know that 9i still offers the old way of tuning, however you can have Oracle do it for you if you want. The automatic tuning allows Oracle to adjust memory structures dynamically and when oracle adjusts these structures it write that information to the SPFILE. The SPFILE is the oracle managed init.ora. This dynamic tuning can also be temporary instead of persistent. 9i also brings back the ability to monitor the buffer cache. This will help you in determining if you need to add or subtract buffers. As far as the MTTR goes, you have this in 8i as well. Oracle8i has you specify the MTTR information in blocks where oracle9i has you specify it in seconds, then oracle9i will determine how many blocks and how often the blocks need to be written to the redo logs for faster instance recovery. Oracle managed files are nothing special. Oracle already creates the datafile for you. Oracle9i allows you to specify an init.ora parameter to specify where the datafiles get created by default. This also works for log files. This way you say CREATE TABLESPACE test and oracle will create the datafile in the specified location from the init.ora. Oracle managed UNDO are also just rollback segments that are managed by Oracle and not you. The oracle managed UNDO are still segments just like the ones you create. The oracle managed UNDO(AUTO) has features that you can't get with old way of doing UNDO (Manual). The AUTO undo automatically creates UNDO segments based on init.ora parameters that I haven't quite figured out yet. The AUTO undo also allows retention of UNDO for a specified period of time. I haven't tested this but have been told that AUTO undo can steal extents from other rollback segments if that specific rollback segment needs more space (extents) and cannot extend in the current tablespace. Scott dude, The article is not actually providing details, it is just reporting that Oracle has provided details. Who got them, when, how, where is a different story. :) It is weird how the article doesn't cite any specific sources at Oracle. I even looked in www.oracle.com's press releases page (yuk), and so forth, and couldn't see anything. Although there is a Press Portal at www.oracle.com that seems to require registration prior to access. In terms of general 9i product information, there is a lot of stuff (see below), but I couldn't find *anything* at the first or second level of the 9i info that jumped out at me as being focused clearly explaining self tuning details. The data sheet on Oracle9i Manageability (URL below) refers http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/database/9i/continuity/index.html?manageas.html to startup/backup issues, and indicates that a persistent INIT.ORA feature is used to bring self tuned parameter settings across shutdowns. Sounds like an incredibly giant pile of cr*p to me. The assumption they are presumably arguing *against* is that self-tuned features would somehow be non-persistent. The circumstances under which a self tuning database would forget what it had done previously is unexplained. Apparently the people that produce the marketing drivel at Oracle either have no clue about this specific topic, or the material was presented to them in an incoherent maner (or both). At any rate it is exceptionally unhelpful to the reader (especially those without a lot of time to waste) to hae to attempt to make sense out of such garbage. Moving right along... In the Resource Management section (same URL): - self-managing rollback segments (some detail) - multi-block size db files for portability - memory management: * SGA self tuning (buffer cache and shared pool) * SGA tuning advisories * transparent management of working memory for SQL execution by self tuning the initialization runtime parameters controlling allocation of private memory - Oracle Managed Files (auto creation of db files) - control downtime ... specify mean time to recover (MTTR) ... in number of seconds ... coupled with dynamic initialization parameters ... improve database availability (which means ??, I don't know) - new capability ... resumable statements ... temporarily suspend ... operation ... process encounters out of space errors ... fix problem ... resume the operation from the point of interruption ... without disrupting normal database operations [new section:] End-to-End Management of Oracle's Internet Infrastructure ... is continuous system availability, reliability, and performance ... important
RE: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to
Scott, Agreed, but we were just letting off some steam due to the great ongoing decline of civilization (a decline, which as the old saying goes, started as soon as civilization was invented) as epitomized by the meaningless insanity of reading an article about details that contains no details, and no cite of where the source of the alleged detailed info is. Anyway, thanks for the great feedback. I now feel that I know something about what 9i is. Now I have to do my 7.3 to 8.1.7 upgrade. :) have a great weekend if at all possible! ep On 11 May 2001, at 12:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date sent: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:15:27 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eric, Sales and marketing have 1 job and that is to sell and market. These marketing things are teasers not necessarily giving detailed information. ... The article is not actually providing details, it is just reporting that Oracle has provided details. Who got them, when, how, where is a different story. :) ... The data sheet on Oracle9i Manageability (URL below) http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/database/9i/continuity/index.html?manageas.html ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to June
Funny. The article says Oracle details. and there is not a single detail in the article. Bad Journalism, or Great Marketeering? || -Original Message- || From: Glenn Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:21 PM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || Subject: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to June || || || Oracle details self-tuning pieces of 9i database - || http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/05/03/010503hndat || abase.xml?p=br || s=2 || || Oracle Moves Back 9i Launch, Dribbles Out More Product Detail - || http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?Art || icleID=26312 || || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: Glenn Travis || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || Mailing Lists || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may || also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). || -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to June
They promised the same thing in Oracle 8. I just hope they fix the major bugs and try to get the major product functionality working! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:21 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Oracle details self-tuning pieces of 9i database - http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/05/03/010503hndatabase.xml?p=br; s=2 Oracle Moves Back 9i Launch, Dribbles Out More Product Detail - http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/BreakingNews.asp?ArticleID=26312 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Glenn Travis INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to
Oooh, I *like* Postgres. I'm having super much fun with it on a personal project right now, and I must say they really trump Oracle on a few things. Of course, I don't know how it handles large amounts of data or users or transactions yet...and I know nothing about the tunability. But it really seems to make the easy things easy and the hard things easier which Oracle certainly doesn't even attempt to do. I know, I know, it's an Oracle list, but it's nice to step out of the box occasionally. Diana Duncan TITAN Technology Partners One Copley Parkway, Ste 540 Morrisville, NC 27560 VM: 919.466.7337 x 316 F: 919.466.7427 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mohan, Ross MohanR@STARSTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] -SMI.comcc: Sent by: Fax to: root@fatcity.Subject: RE: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to com 05/10/2001 04:53 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L snip Some days, PostGres just *sounds* better. sigh /snip -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle 9i Articles - self tuning, launch delayed to June
Ain't self-ruining, er, self-tuning great? :-) Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den - Original Message - Guess what problem is tweaking my knickers now? A poorly self-tuned DC with NO WAY to tweak it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
