RE: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Niall Litchfield
For optimizer_index_caching start with your hit ratio (sorry everyone)
expressed as on integer - eg 85.57% would gove you 86. The parameter
means how often do you expect index blocks to be found in memory, hit
ratio is a start. For o_i_c_a use the ratio of db_file_sequential_read
wait times to db_file_scattered_read wait times (v$system_event)
expressed as an integer (most of mine on compaq systems come out at
around 30.) 

The stat is saying how much cheaper are disk accesses for sequential
read blocks (index) compared to disk accesses for scattered read blocks
(fts).  Comments along the lines of 'but surely that's the wrong way
around' agreed with, but as I understand it the wait interface was a
late night - off topic affair so hey who is arguing for decent
nomenclature. 

Niall 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Smith, Ron L.
> Sent: 11 August 2003 22:04
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Poor performance after moving Extempore database 
> from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7
> 
> 
> Can you give me starting values to try in the optimizer 
> parameters? Ron
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:44 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> to 8.1.7
> 
> 
> Yes it does. 8i has parameters optimizer_index_cost_adj and 
> optimizer_index_caching, which don't exist in 7.3. And these 
> parameters' default values aren't optimal.
> 
> Also, when testing your app, be sure that you're comparing 
> oranges with oranges, e.g. if your app uses bind variables 
> but your sqlplus test doesn't, the comparision is quite pointless...
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 11:24 PM
> 8.1.7
> 
> 
> > The old and new versions were both set to CHOOSE.  Both are 
> analyzed.
> > Are you saying 8.1.7 handles this differently?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Ron
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:04 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > to 8.1.7
> >
> >
> > RBO, CBO, the old story. If you plan to continue using 8.1.7 for a
> > While, then set the parameter OPTIMIZER_MODE to RULE. Your 
> performance
> 
> > will be normal again and programmers will be able to override the
> > parameter By specifying any hint except /*+ RULE */. Before 
> switching 
> > to CBO, please read the article about the intelligent life in the 
> > optimizer. The article itself is a good one (thanks, Tim) 
> but reading 
> > the book from JL (Jonathan
> > Lewis, not Jeniffer Lopez) wouldn't hurt, either.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Smith, Ron L.
> > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:14 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 8.1.7
> >
> >
> >
> > We recently upgraded an application (Extempore) database from Oracle
> > 7.3.4 to 8.1.7.  The clients say the test database, still on Oracle 
> > 7.3.4 is much faster than the production database, now on 
> 8.1.7.  The 
> > server is newer and faster on the production database.  The Oracle 
> > init parameters are pretty much identical.
> >
> > When I access the database through SQL*PLUS or TOAD, the response is
> > instantaneous.  The app uses an ODBC connection which is 
> also 8.1.7.  
> > I have tried attaching the tables in MS Access through 
> ODBC.  This too
> 
> > is instantaneous.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Ron Smith
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Smith, Ron L.
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
> > 
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> also send 
> > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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> > Note:
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> > confidential,

RE: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Mladen Gogala
Differently from what? Differently from V7? But of course! The optimizer 
is very, very different. It will frequently give different results. 

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



-Original Message-
Smith, Ron L.
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
8.1.7


The old and new versions were both set to CHOOSE.  Both are analyzed. Are
you saying 8.1.7 handles this differently?

Thanks!
Ron

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
to 8.1.7


RBO, CBO, the old story. If you plan to continue using 8.1.7 for a While,
then set the parameter OPTIMIZER_MODE to RULE. Your performance will be
normal again and programmers will be able to override the parameter By
specifying any hint except /*+ RULE */. Before switching to CBO, please read
the article about the intelligent life in the optimizer. The article 
itself is a good one (thanks, Tim) but reading the book from JL (Jonathan 
Lewis, not Jeniffer Lopez) wouldn't hurt, either.  

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



-Original Message-
Smith, Ron L.
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
8.1.7



We recently upgraded an application (Extempore) database from Oracle 7.3.4
to 8.1.7.  The clients say the test database, still on Oracle 7.3.4 is much
faster than the production database, now on 8.1.7.  The server is newer and
faster on the production database.  The Oracle init parameters are pretty
much identical.  

When I access the database through SQL*PLUS or TOAD, the response is
instantaneous.  The app uses an ODBC connection which is also 8.1.7.  I have
tried attaching the tables in MS Access through ODBC.  This too is
instantaneous.

Any ideas?

Ron Smith
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Smith, Ron L.
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Steve McClure

>>then set the parameter OPTIMIZER_MODE to RULE. Your performance
>>will be normal again and programmers will be able to override the
parameter
>>By specifying any hint except /*+ RULE */.

Is this really the case.  I used to think this was the case, but somewhere
along the way to studying for the OCP exams, I read and accepted that NO
hints were available if you were using the RULE based optimizer.  I guess I
need to fire up my test instance later today, and figure this out.

Steve McClure


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Steve McClure
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Tanel Poder
Yes it does. 8i has parameters optimizer_index_cost_adj and
optimizer_index_caching, which don't exist in 7.3. And these parameters'
default values aren't optimal.

Also, when testing your app, be sure that you're comparing oranges with
oranges, e.g. if your app uses bind variables but your sqlplus test doesn't,
the comparision is quite pointless...

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 11:24 PM
8.1.7


> The old and new versions were both set to CHOOSE.  Both are analyzed.
> Are you saying 8.1.7 handles this differently?
>
> Thanks!
> Ron
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:04 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> to 8.1.7
>
>
> RBO, CBO, the old story. If you plan to continue using 8.1.7 for a
> While, then set the parameter OPTIMIZER_MODE to RULE. Your performance
> will be normal again and programmers will be able to override the
> parameter By specifying any hint except /*+ RULE */. Before switching to
> CBO, please read the article about the intelligent life in the
> optimizer. The article
> itself is a good one (thanks, Tim) but reading the book from JL
> (Jonathan
> Lewis, not Jeniffer Lopez) wouldn't hurt, either.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Smith, Ron L.
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:14 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 8.1.7
>
>
>
> We recently upgraded an application (Extempore) database from Oracle
> 7.3.4 to 8.1.7.  The clients say the test database, still on Oracle
> 7.3.4 is much faster than the production database, now on 8.1.7.  The
> server is newer and faster on the production database.  The Oracle init
> parameters are pretty much identical.
>
> When I access the database through SQL*PLUS or TOAD, the response is
> instantaneous.  The app uses an ODBC connection which is also 8.1.7.  I
> have tried attaching the tables in MS Access through ODBC.  This too is
> instantaneous.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Ron Smith
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Smith, Ron L.
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
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> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the
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> command for other information (like subscribing).
>
> 
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only.  It may
> contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged
> information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived
> or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this
> message in error, please immediately delete it and all
> copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies
> of it and notify the sender.  You must not, directly or
> indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy
> any part of this message if you are not the intended
> recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries
> each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail
> communications through its networks.
>
> Any views expressed in this message are those of the
> individual sender, except where the message states
> otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them
> to be the views of any such entity.
> -
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Mladen Gogala
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Smith, Ron L.
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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RE: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Smith, Ron L.
The old and new versions were both set to CHOOSE.  Both are analyzed.
Are you saying 8.1.7 handles this differently?

Thanks!
Ron

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
to 8.1.7


RBO, CBO, the old story. If you plan to continue using 8.1.7 for a
While, then set the parameter OPTIMIZER_MODE to RULE. Your performance
will be normal again and programmers will be able to override the
parameter By specifying any hint except /*+ RULE */. Before switching to
CBO, please read the article about the intelligent life in the
optimizer. The article 
itself is a good one (thanks, Tim) but reading the book from JL
(Jonathan 
Lewis, not Jeniffer Lopez) wouldn't hurt, either.  

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



-Original Message-
Smith, Ron L.
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
8.1.7



We recently upgraded an application (Extempore) database from Oracle
7.3.4 to 8.1.7.  The clients say the test database, still on Oracle
7.3.4 is much faster than the production database, now on 8.1.7.  The
server is newer and faster on the production database.  The Oracle init
parameters are pretty much identical.  

When I access the database through SQL*PLUS or TOAD, the response is
instantaneous.  The app uses an ODBC connection which is also 8.1.7.  I
have tried attaching the tables in MS Access through ODBC.  This too is
instantaneous.

Any ideas?

Ron Smith
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Smith, Ron L.
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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message in error, please immediately delete it and all 
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies 
of it and notify the sender.  You must not, directly or 
indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy 
any part of this message if you are not the intended 
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries 
each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail 
communications through its networks.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the 
individual sender, except where the message states 
otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them 
to be the views of any such entity.
-
-- 
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-- 
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-- 
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RE: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Mladen Gogala
Tried and tested in practice. Yes, it really is so.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



-Original Message-
Steve McClure
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
8.1.7



>>then set the parameter OPTIMIZER_MODE to RULE. Your performance will 
>>be normal again and programmers will be able to override the
parameter
>>By specifying any hint except /*+ RULE */.

Is this really the case.  I used to think this was the case, but somewhere
along the way to studying for the OCP exams, I read and accepted that NO
hints were available if you were using the RULE based optimizer.  I guess I
need to fire up my test instance later today, and figure this out.

Steve McClure


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Steve McClure
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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command for other information (like subscribing).



Note:
This message is for the named person's use only.  It may 
contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged 
information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived 
or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this 
message in error, please immediately delete it and all 
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies 
of it and notify the sender.  You must not, directly or 
indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy 
any part of this message if you are not the intended 
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries 
each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail 
communications through its networks.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the 
individual sender, except where the message states 
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to be the views of any such entity.
-
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
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RE: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Smith, Ron L.
Can you give me starting values to try in the optimizer parameters?
Ron

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
to 8.1.7


Yes it does. 8i has parameters optimizer_index_cost_adj and
optimizer_index_caching, which don't exist in 7.3. And these parameters'
default values aren't optimal.

Also, when testing your app, be sure that you're comparing oranges with
oranges, e.g. if your app uses bind variables but your sqlplus test
doesn't, the comparision is quite pointless...

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 11:24 PM
8.1.7


> The old and new versions were both set to CHOOSE.  Both are analyzed. 
> Are you saying 8.1.7 handles this differently?
>
> Thanks!
> Ron
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:04 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> to 8.1.7
>
>
> RBO, CBO, the old story. If you plan to continue using 8.1.7 for a 
> While, then set the parameter OPTIMIZER_MODE to RULE. Your performance

> will be normal again and programmers will be able to override the 
> parameter By specifying any hint except /*+ RULE */. Before switching 
> to CBO, please read the article about the intelligent life in the 
> optimizer. The article itself is a good one (thanks, Tim) but reading 
> the book from JL (Jonathan
> Lewis, not Jeniffer Lopez) wouldn't hurt, either.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Smith, Ron L.
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:14 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 8.1.7
>
>
>
> We recently upgraded an application (Extempore) database from Oracle 
> 7.3.4 to 8.1.7.  The clients say the test database, still on Oracle 
> 7.3.4 is much faster than the production database, now on 8.1.7.  The 
> server is newer and faster on the production database.  The Oracle 
> init parameters are pretty much identical.
>
> When I access the database through SQL*PLUS or TOAD, the response is 
> instantaneous.  The app uses an ODBC connection which is also 8.1.7.  
> I have tried attaching the tables in MS Access through ODBC.  This too

> is instantaneous.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Ron Smith
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Smith, Ron L.
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the 
> name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may also send 
> the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
> 
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain 
> confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No 
> confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.

> If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and

> all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies
> of it and notify the sender.  You must not, directly or
> indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy
> any part of this message if you are not the intended
> recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries
> each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail
> communications through its networks.
>
> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual 
> sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is 
> authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.
> -
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Mladen Gogala
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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RE: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Mladen Gogala
RBO, CBO, the old story. If you plan to continue using 8.1.7 for a
While, then set the parameter OPTIMIZER_MODE to RULE. Your performance
will be normal again and programmers will be able to override the parameter
By specifying any hint except /*+ RULE */. Before switching to CBO, please
read the article about the intelligent life in the optimizer. The article 
itself is a good one (thanks, Tim) but reading the book from JL (Jonathan 
Lewis, not Jeniffer Lopez) wouldn't hurt, either.  

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



-Original Message-
Smith, Ron L.
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
8.1.7



We recently upgraded an application (Extempore) database from Oracle 7.3.4
to 8.1.7.  The clients say the test database, still on Oracle 7.3.4 is much
faster than the production database, now on 8.1.7.  The server is newer and
faster on the production database.  The Oracle init parameters are pretty
much identical.  

When I access the database through SQL*PLUS or TOAD, the response is
instantaneous.  The app uses an ODBC connection which is also 8.1.7.  I have
tried attaching the tables in MS Access through ODBC.  This too is
instantaneous.

Any ideas?

Ron Smith
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Re: Poor performance after moving Extempore database from 7.3.4 to 8.1.7

2003-08-14 Thread Tanel Poder
> Is this really the case.  I used to think this was the case, but somewhere
> along the way to studying for the OCP exams, I read and accepted that NO
> hints were available if you were using the RULE based optimizer.  I guess
I
> need to fire up my test instance later today, and figure this out.

Rule hint itself is an exception. Otherwise it would contradict it's
purpose.

Tanel.


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