Re: Top (=10) Issues faced by Oracle DBAs Deploying in a
Hemant, Group, Could not resist: here is my 0.02 Euro. (0.05 by the time I re-read it) Start with a Disclaimer: Limited SAN experience: HP-(ex cmpq) storageworks (EVA3000?) and Dell/EMC/Clarion only. Here is How I try to approach SAN: Me, the DBA, wants; - focus on mountpoints - equal-everything - no surprises (re-size?) - no lock-in on disk, vendor or server. Elaboration: - Just Mountpoints, I just want directories to place my stuff. I don't want to be bothered too much with the stuff below the mountpoints, just make sure it is Raid10, striped, mirrored, triple-powered, and no SPOF anywhere. Make sure raid-groups are large enough so throughput of N-disks is enough to keep up with controllers, regardless of cache. Sizes should be known, and fixed, no surprises about hard/soft size-limits. - equal everything. - The least possible nr of components, and - The least possible nr of Different components: - Identical raid groups, if possible. - 1 or two types of mountpoints only - Preferably all of same properties - Predictable (equal) performance on all - e.g. all raid groups 4+4 disks of 140G each would result in mountpoints of +/- 560G with equal properties. - Few, Large mountpoints, if nothing else suffers My perferred system would only grow with (raid-groups/VG's of ) 8 disks at a time. - I will re-insist on a equal playing field for all disks again, because at some point, I will have to compromise by putting a file in a location where I did not plan it @1st. - Snapshotting: per mountpoint or per directory, which enbles me to copy/backup whole db at once. Hence my reluctancy to dig deeper then mountpoints. When LVM's distribute my mountpoints over 1 LUN and snaphot happens at the LUN-level or deeper: BAD. I often found I could not snapshot exactly the subset of mountpoints(files) that I wanted. - space for ORACLE_HOME preferably on a CFS, so I only have to install once. I tend to set oracle-home on the Shard-disks, so I can mount or copy to multiple servers. my internal server-disks are near-empty. NB: like HP-UX style mirrored system disks, you can take one out and get next server going even faster then with ignite ;-). (I would support OpenSSI.org, if I could, I long back to the VMS style clustering). Dislikes: - Drivers not available for my unix/linux versions. - LUN's or VG's unable to extend without rebuild - LUN's or VG's with different characterisics. - VG's filling up miraculously because of soft limits. - snapshots not moutable on same machine (I'll give the a different dir-name!) - Snapshots-log full. - Snapshot-logs on same raid-group as my redo-logs. What I do not like (I'll repeat): - mountpoints (or vol-groups, or Luns) that are faster or slower, or behave differently from the others. Any perceived difference will limit me in my possibilities (or exposes me to accusations: thou hast placed thy archives on the slower disk!...) If I have to separate : - separate for safety : each vg should allow complete recovery: vg1 : archs + 1-set-redo + 1 ctlfile vg2 : datafiles + 1-set-redo + ctlfile vg3 : depends... - separate for perfomance : avoid hotspot in throughput: vg1 : redos (on fastest disk, If there is one) vg2 : data vg3 : sort-space, archives, depends... vg4 : depends... Keep monitoring ! btw: tuning the app or the data-model will gain more then tuning the disks, quotes: - The Brain is more intelligent then the Controller - Less hardware is good for Innovation - More Hardware should give you Less Status, not more :-) Disclaimers ; - 10G may upset all of this again. - YMMV Regards, PdV Oracle DBA - Certified (you figure it out) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Piet de Visser INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Top (=10) Issues faced by Oracle DBAs Deploying in a
Unfortunately, we are always adding a new database. The new SAN commission in June-July was supposed to hold 6 databases. Then it became 7 databases in August. Now it is 8 this month and the count will go up to 9 databases by December. As the SAN Storage Admin and Unix SA roles are handled by two people [apart from me, the DBA], I haven't been able to get additional file systems available on the SunCluster accessing the SAN. I have been cramming in 8 databases into file systems sized for 6. Hemant At 09:09 AM 29-09-03 -0800, you wrote: Hemant -- I just came off a gig where I was the storage/Unix/DBA geek, and, in my opinion, while the level of expertise *does* need to be higher, *and different*, for in that environment, it's all front-end. Once you have the database configured and the backup and recovery scripts written and tested, you can go back to having just straight DBAs. At least that's what they did at my last site, and I haven't heard any complaints from them. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As an Oracle DBA , I have no problems putting my Databases on SANs [yes, we have seperate SANs, from different vendors]. However, I find that Storage and Unix Admin skill requirements for a SAN seem to be higher. When Clustered servers access the SAN, it seems to be even more difficult to get an additional mount point made available to the DBA. Hemant At 10:59 AM 25-09-03 -0800, you wrote: Fellow Listers, If you don't deal with Oracle databases on SAN/NAS environments, this posting may not interest you. If so, my apologies, please delete this. Otherwise, please read on. In an effort to better understand what issues you face when deploying an Oracle database in a SAN/NAS environment, I am writing to you to get some real life feedback. Although I have a fair idea, where some of the pain lies, it would be much more valuable if you could tell me. Kind of like From the horse's mouth..;-) And I truly meant that as a compliment...:-) My goal is to fully understand where the real pain lies, so that appropriate solutions can be built to alleviate or even eliminate the pain. You can be as broad or narrow in your responses using the following topics as guidelines: * Initial SAN/NAS Configuration for Database Creation and Application Deployment * Ongoing Storage Volume Management in a SAN/NAS * Ongoing Storage Administration (Growth, Resizing) * Performance Optimization Troubleshooting * Things that require automation * Anything else you think is important that I have missed I do really appreciate you taking the time to put your feedback in black and white. Those of you who take the time and effort to provide feedback, will be entered in a raffle to for some T-shirts and other freebies. Oh, BTW, when you do send your response, please provide your full contact information, so that I know where to mail the goodies. In the interest of not flooding the list, please send me your feedback directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a courtesy to my fellow listers, I will collate all responses and post a summary in the near future. You can count on me to do that. Best regards, Gaja = Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha| E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Principal Technical Product Manager | Phone: (650)-527-3180 Application Performance Management | Web: http://www.veritas.com Veritas Corporation | __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Hemant K Chitale Oracle 9i Database Administrator Certified Professional My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also
RE: Top (=10) Issues faced by Oracle DBAs Deploying in a
Hemant -- I just came off a gig where I was the storage/Unix/DBA geek, and, in my opinion, while the level of expertise *does* need to be higher, *and different*, for in that environment, it's all front-end. Once you have the database configured and the backup and recovery scripts written and tested, you can go back to having just straight DBAs. At least that's what they did at my last site, and I haven't heard any complaints from them. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As an Oracle DBA , I have no problems putting my Databases on SANs [yes, we have seperate SANs, from different vendors]. However, I find that Storage and Unix Admin skill requirements for a SAN seem to be higher. When Clustered servers access the SAN, it seems to be even more difficult to get an additional mount point made available to the DBA. Hemant At 10:59 AM 25-09-03 -0800, you wrote: Fellow Listers, If you don't deal with Oracle databases on SAN/NAS environments, this posting may not interest you. If so, my apologies, please delete this. Otherwise, please read on. In an effort to better understand what issues you face when deploying an Oracle database in a SAN/NAS environment, I am writing to you to get some real life feedback. Although I have a fair idea, where some of the pain lies, it would be much more valuable if you could tell me. Kind of like From the horse's mouth..;-) And I truly meant that as a compliment...:-) My goal is to fully understand where the real pain lies, so that appropriate solutions can be built to alleviate or even eliminate the pain. You can be as broad or narrow in your responses using the following topics as guidelines: * Initial SAN/NAS Configuration for Database Creation and Application Deployment * Ongoing Storage Volume Management in a SAN/NAS * Ongoing Storage Administration (Growth, Resizing) * Performance Optimization Troubleshooting * Things that require automation * Anything else you think is important that I have missed I do really appreciate you taking the time to put your feedback in black and white. Those of you who take the time and effort to provide feedback, will be entered in a raffle to for some T-shirts and other freebies. Oh, BTW, when you do send your response, please provide your full contact information, so that I know where to mail the goodies. In the interest of not flooding the list, please send me your feedback directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a courtesy to my fellow listers, I will collate all responses and post a summary in the near future. You can count on me to do that. Best regards, Gaja = Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha| E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Principal Technical Product Manager | Phone: (650)-527-3180 Application Performance Management | Web: http://www.veritas.com Veritas Corporation | __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Hemant K Chitale Oracle 9i Database Administrator Certified Professional My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bellow, Bambi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message
Re: Top (=10) Issues faced by Oracle DBAs Deploying in a SAN/NAS
Title: Re: Top (=10) Issues faced by Oracle DBAs Deploying in a SAN/NAS NAS mistakes: Not dedicating two (or more) network segments to NAS access only, segregated from other uses Should you just plug a NAS into a general-purpose LAN and start connecting servers to it? Why would more than one network port on a server using NAS storage be a good idea? Why are two (or more, not one) dedicated network segments a good idea? Not placing data structures like online redo logfiles, RBS/UNDO datafiles, lkDBNAME file, and at least one controlfile on direct-attach HDD or SAN If there is a policy to place all corporate data on the shared storage (NAS), then surely redo, RBS/UNDO etc should not be considered corporate data Often, the lkDBNAME mount lock file in the $ORACLE_HOME/dbs directory should be placed on direct-attach HDD or SAN, else ORA-27086 can happen Oracle documentation mentions resolution of ORA-27806 by running unlocking commands on NetApps console, but the best solution is prevention... Not placing file-systems like user home directories, ORACLE_HOME, admin/log/trc, APPL_TOP, etc on the NAS and placing heavily-accessed datafiles on direct-attach HDD or SAN Why not place low-demand file-systems on the lower-performance storage and high-demand file-systems on higher-performance storage? My $0.02... on 9/25/03 11:59 AM, Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fellow Listers, If you don't deal with Oracle databases on SAN/NAS environments, this posting may not interest you. If so, my apologies, please delete this. Otherwise, please read on. In an effort to better understand what issues you face when deploying an Oracle database in a SAN/NAS environment, I am writing to you to get some real life feedback. Although I have a fair idea, where some of the pain lies, it would be much more valuable if you could tell me. Kind of like From the horse's mouth..;-) And I truly meant that as a compliment...:-) My goal is to fully understand where the real pain lies, so that appropriate solutions can be built to alleviate or even eliminate the pain. You can be as broad or narrow in your responses using the following topics as guidelines: * Initial SAN/NAS Configuration for Database Creation and Application Deployment * Ongoing Storage Volume Management in a SAN/NAS * Ongoing Storage Administration (Growth, Resizing) * Performance Optimization Troubleshooting * Things that require automation * Anything else you think is important that I have missed I do really appreciate you taking the time to put your feedback in black and white. Those of you who take the time and effort to provide feedback, will be entered in a raffle to for some T-shirts and other freebies. Oh, BTW, when you do send your response, please provide your full contact information, so that I know where to mail the goodies. In the interest of not flooding the list, please send me your feedback directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a courtesy to my fellow listers, I will collate all responses and post a summary in the near future. You can count on me to do that. Best regards, Gaja = Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Principal Technical Product Manager | Phone: (650)-527-3180 Application Performance Management | Web: http://www.veritas.com Veritas Corporation | __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: Top (=10) Issues faced by Oracle DBAs Deploying in a SAN/NAS
I would still rank undo redologs together with regular data because they're crucial for survivability and consistency ofinformation... Tanel. If there is a policy to place all corporate data on the shared storage (NAS), then surely redo, RBS/UNDO etc should not be considered corporate data Often, the lkDBNAME mount lock file in the $ORACLE_HOME/dbs directory should be placed on direct-attach HDD or SAN, else ORA-27086 can happen Oracle documentation mentions resolution of ORA-27806 by running unlocking commands on NetApps console, but the best solution is prevention... Not placing file-systems like user home directories, ORACLE_HOME, admin/log/trc, APPL_TOP, etc on the NAS and placing heavily-accessed datafiles on direct-attach HDD or SAN Why not place low-demand file-systems on the lower-performance storage and high-demand file-systems on higher-performance storage?
Re: Top (=10) Issues faced by Oracle DBAs Deploying in a
As an Oracle DBA , I have no problems putting my Databases on SANs [yes, we have seperate SANs, from different vendors]. However, I find that Storage and Unix Admin skill requirements for a SAN seem to be higher. When Clustered servers access the SAN, it seems to be even more difficult to get an additional mount point made available to the DBA. Hemant At 10:59 AM 25-09-03 -0800, you wrote: Fellow Listers, If you don't deal with Oracle databases on SAN/NAS environments, this posting may not interest you. If so, my apologies, please delete this. Otherwise, please read on. In an effort to better understand what issues you face when deploying an Oracle database in a SAN/NAS environment, I am writing to you to get some real life feedback. Although I have a fair idea, where some of the pain lies, it would be much more valuable if you could tell me. Kind of like From the horse's mouth..;-) And I truly meant that as a compliment...:-) My goal is to fully understand where the real pain lies, so that appropriate solutions can be built to alleviate or even eliminate the pain. You can be as broad or narrow in your responses using the following topics as guidelines: * Initial SAN/NAS Configuration for Database Creation and Application Deployment * Ongoing Storage Volume Management in a SAN/NAS * Ongoing Storage Administration (Growth, Resizing) * Performance Optimization Troubleshooting * Things that require automation * Anything else you think is important that I have missed I do really appreciate you taking the time to put your feedback in black and white. Those of you who take the time and effort to provide feedback, will be entered in a raffle to for some T-shirts and other freebies. Oh, BTW, when you do send your response, please provide your full contact information, so that I know where to mail the goodies. In the interest of not flooding the list, please send me your feedback directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a courtesy to my fellow listers, I will collate all responses and post a summary in the near future. You can count on me to do that. Best regards, Gaja = Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha| E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Principal Technical Product Manager | Phone: (650)-527-3180 Application Performance Management | Web: http://www.veritas.com Veritas Corporation | __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Hemant K Chitale Oracle 9i Database Administrator Certified Professional My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Top (=10) Issues faced by Oracle DBAs Deploying in a SAN/NAS
Hi, gaja I post the feedback to list and hope others can also cc a copy to the list so that we share our experience. My small database runs on a small basic san: two database on V880/E4500 and two standby server , share a storage which is consistent of 4*Sun T3, with 2 FC-switch. Our pains we suffer: 1. Must have DMP or something like that configured. Or one path fail, database fail. Controller fail is not someting rare.We have an 2 hours outage once because of failed controller on T3 and unproper DMP config. 2.We have raid10 for production and raid5 for standby database. 3.Sun T3(under control of VxVM/VXFS) is really poor in disk performance.We have 9(4-4 mirror, one standby) as raid1 with 1G cache.300+random IO(blocksize 8k) satured the storage.90+% busy and iowait 30+% 4. SAN Zone is not configured here and all server can see all the disks. This gives flexible control but harder to manage. 5. Our basic SAN is not a really SAN. We still use one server to have exclusive control of one T3.So , some T3 are extreme busy while other T3 are basicaly idle. THis waste resource.But as we do not have another software layer, we used SAN just for Failover, any host can take over any storage. Regrads Zhu Chao. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 2:59 AM Fellow Listers, If you don't deal with Oracle databases on SAN/NAS environments, this posting may not interest you. If so, my apologies, please delete this. Otherwise, please read on. In an effort to better understand what issues you face when deploying an Oracle database in a SAN/NAS environment, I am writing to you to get some real life feedback. Although I have a fair idea, where some of the pain lies, it would be much more valuable if you could tell me. Kind of like From the horse's mouth..;-) And I truly meant that as a compliment...:-) My goal is to fully understand where the real pain lies, so that appropriate solutions can be built to alleviate or even eliminate the pain. You can be as broad or narrow in your responses using the following topics as guidelines: * Initial SAN/NAS Configuration for Database Creation and Application Deployment * Ongoing Storage Volume Management in a SAN/NAS * Ongoing Storage Administration (Growth, Resizing) * Performance Optimization Troubleshooting * Things that require automation * Anything else you think is important that I have missed I do really appreciate you taking the time to put your feedback in black and white. Those of you who take the time and effort to provide feedback, will be entered in a raffle to for some T-shirts and other freebies. Oh, BTW, when you do send your response, please provide your full contact information, so that I know where to mail the goodies. In the interest of not flooding the list, please send me your feedback directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a courtesy to my fellow listers, I will collate all responses and post a summary in the near future. You can count on me to do that. Best regards, Gaja = Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha| E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Principal Technical Product Manager | Phone: (650)-527-3180 Application Performance Management | Web: http://www.veritas.com Veritas Corporation | __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: zhu chao INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
