RE: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installation
Well, in reality, there is only one way. You must shamelessly advertise
yourself and invent some legends about yourself ("I saved Priceline...").
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:50 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
installations?
I've thought that it would be interesting and lucrative work offering
third party apps companies my services in modeling and designing
databases.
Problem is, they don't understand how bad they truly are. Anyone
have ideas on selling ignorant ( no disrespect intended ) folks on
why they need the services of good modelers and DBA's?
Jraed
On Friday 20 April 2001 03:55, Thater, William wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2001,Jared Still scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
>
> ->If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know
> that ->it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If
> you ->haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes,
worse
> than ->Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc.
>
> take a look at MetaSolv's TBS.;-) i'll stack it up against Remedy
> anyday. can you say circular references? i knew you could.;-)
>
> --
> Bill Thater Certifieable ORACLE DBA
> Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ~~
> You gotta program like you don't need the money,
> You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
> You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
> It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.
> ~~
> Another megabytes the dust.
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Author: Jared Still
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Author: Gogala, Mladen
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Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installation
Remedy is a different beast all right. I found out about the schema thing when a PL/SQL function I wrote to retrieve dates (stored in seconds since the epoch) went awry, and the Oracle Discoverer templates I set up for our engineers stopped working. There are a couple tables, ARSCHEMA and I think it's FIELDS that will tell you what the table and field names are. Seagate(Crystal Reports) has an ODBC driver (ugh) that I'm told map these, or you can do what I did which is to create your own view using dynamic SQL. Good Luck. David A. Barbour Oracle DBA Jared Still wrote: > > So, he hasn't told you yet that the schemas are > generated on the fly? > > Jared > > On Friday 20 April 2001 06:00, Lanteigne, Mike wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > Funny you mention Remedy. I've been recently introduced to Remedy here at > > my new job. I was about to refresh our QA database with production data > > when I discovered the schema's were different! I took a look at the two > > schemas and WOW, was that a shock (uglyy). Seems the DEV schema is > > different from QA schema too. Next week I will meet with one the > > consultants that implemented the app here. I hope there is some method to > > the apparent madness (at least mapping between schemas). > > > > Mike Lanteigne > > > > The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official position > > of my employer or the organization through which the internet was accessed. > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Seley, Linda [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:30 AM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Subject:RE: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE > > > installation > > > > > > With your 'free time' now would be a good time to work on putting Remedy > > > out > > > of business. ;-) It wouldn't be too hard and you'd be the hero of > > > countless DBAs! > > > > > > Linda > > > (who is very grateful never to have had to deal with AR but sure heard > > > some > > > ugly stories!) > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:50 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > installations? > > > > > > > > > > > > Comments embedded > > > > > > On Thursday 19 April 2001 15:31, Eric D. Pierce wrote: > > > ... > > > > > > > As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a > > > > method for modification of a normalized design. There should be > > > > disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase > > > > in a trade-off for the least collateral damage (extra coding). > > > > > > > > I get the impression that this is standard operating procedure, > > > > documented in industry journals, and so forth. > > > > > > > > In your experience, what percentage of "real world" dbs are using > > > > pure normalized designs? > > > > > > In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers > > > with tales of how terrible life will be if they're forced to write code > > > for > > > a normalized database. > > > > > > I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely > > > normalized > > > > > > database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if we found > > > it necessary for some reason. > > > > > > We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started > > > doing physical modeling. Sigh. > > > > > > If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know > > > that > > > it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you > > > haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse > > > than Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. > > > > > > ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) > > > > > > One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a > > > normalized > > > schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The schema > > > is that bad. > > > > > > > Has this changed as hardware becomes more powerful and cheaper? > > > > > > Hardware, and Oracle has improved in it's ability to join. I assume &
Re: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installation
So, he hasn't told you yet that the schemas are generated on the fly? Jared On Friday 20 April 2001 06:00, Lanteigne, Mike wrote: > Hello all, > > Funny you mention Remedy. I've been recently introduced to Remedy here at > my new job. I was about to refresh our QA database with production data > when I discovered the schema's were different! I took a look at the two > schemas and WOW, was that a shock (uglyy). Seems the DEV schema is > different from QA schema too. Next week I will meet with one the > consultants that implemented the app here. I hope there is some method to > the apparent madness (at least mapping between schemas). > > Mike Lanteigne > > The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official position > of my employer or the organization through which the internet was accessed. > > > -Original Message- > > From: Seley, Linda [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:30 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject:RE: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE > > installation > > > > With your 'free time' now would be a good time to work on putting Remedy > > out > > of business. ;-) It wouldn't be too hard and you'd be the hero of > > countless DBAs! > > > > Linda > > (who is very grateful never to have had to deal with AR but sure heard > > some > > ugly stories!) > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:50 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > installations? > > > > > > > > Comments embedded > > > > On Thursday 19 April 2001 15:31, Eric D. Pierce wrote: > > ... > > > > > As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a > > > method for modification of a normalized design. There should be > > > disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase > > > in a trade-off for the least collateral damage (extra coding). > > > > > > I get the impression that this is standard operating procedure, > > > documented in industry journals, and so forth. > > > > > > In your experience, what percentage of "real world" dbs are using > > > pure normalized designs? > > > > In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers > > with tales of how terrible life will be if they're forced to write code > > for > > a normalized database. > > > > I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely > > normalized > > > > database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if we found > > it necessary for some reason. > > > > We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started > > doing physical modeling. Sigh. > > > > If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know > > that > > it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you > > haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse > > than Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. > > > > ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) > > > > One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a > > normalized > > schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The schema > > is that bad. > > > > > Has this changed as hardware becomes more powerful and cheaper? > > > > Hardware, and Oracle has improved in it's ability to join. I assume > > other databases are faster than in years past as well. > > > > > pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last > > > job? > > > > Sorry, thought I had. > > > > My previous employer laid off several folks. I wasn't among them > > however. Damagement decided to take this opportunity to redeploy several > > positions to HQ in Houston TX. > > > > If you've spent any time in the Pacific NorthWest, you may understand why > > I chose to stay here. Likewise if you've been to Houston :) > > > > ( hope I didn't offend any Texicans :) > > > > I'm taking this opportunity to attempt a slight career change and get > > into > > the contracting side of things. > > > > Jared > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Jared Still > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat C
RE: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installation
OH crappers, we just put Remedy in here. They are running it in SQL Server though. They just let me have a second DBA. Maybe I will give him responsibility over that one:-) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L installations? Comments embedded On Thursday 19 April 2001 15:31, Eric D. Pierce wrote: ... > As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a > method for modification of a normalized design. There should be > disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase > in a trade-off for the least collateral damage (extra coding). > > I get the impression that this is standard operating procedure, > documented in industry journals, and so forth. > > In your experience, what percentage of "real world" dbs are using > pure normalized designs? In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers with tales of how terrible life will be if they're forced to write code for a normalized database. I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely normalized database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if we found it necessary for some reason. We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started doing physical modeling. Sigh. If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know that it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse than Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a normalized schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The schema is that bad. > > Has this changed as hardware becomes more powerful and cheaper? > Hardware, and Oracle has improved in it's ability to join. I assume other databases are faster than in years past as well. > pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last > job? Sorry, thought I had. My previous employer laid off several folks. I wasn't among them however. Damagement decided to take this opportunity to redeploy several positions to HQ in Houston TX. If you've spent any time in the Pacific NorthWest, you may understand why I chose to stay here. Likewise if you've been to Houston :) ( hope I didn't offend any Texicans :) I'm taking this opportunity to attempt a slight career change and get into the contracting side of things. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installation
Hello all, Funny you mention Remedy. I've been recently introduced to Remedy here at my new job. I was about to refresh our QA database with production data when I discovered the schema's were different! I took a look at the two schemas and WOW, was that a shock (uglyy). Seems the DEV schema is different from QA schema too. Next week I will meet with one the consultants that implemented the app here. I hope there is some method to the apparent madness (at least mapping between schemas). Mike Lanteigne The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official position of my employer or the organization through which the internet was accessed. > -Original Message- > From: Seley, Linda [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:30 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE > installation > > With your 'free time' now would be a good time to work on putting Remedy > out > of business. ;-) It wouldn't be too hard and you'd be the hero of > countless DBAs! > > Linda > (who is very grateful never to have had to deal with AR but sure heard > some > ugly stories!) > > -Original Message- > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:50 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > installations? > > > > Comments embedded > > On Thursday 19 April 2001 15:31, Eric D. Pierce wrote: > ... > > As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a > > method for modification of a normalized design. There should be > > disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase > > in a trade-off for the least collateral damage (extra coding). > > > > I get the impression that this is standard operating procedure, > > documented in industry journals, and so forth. > > > > In your experience, what percentage of "real world" dbs are using > > pure normalized designs? > > In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers > with tales of how terrible life will be if they're forced to write code > for > a normalized database. > > I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely > normalized > > database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if we found > it necessary for some reason. > > We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started > doing physical modeling. Sigh. > > If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know > that > it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you > haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse than > Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. > > ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) > > One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a > normalized > schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The schema > is that bad. > > > > > Has this changed as hardware becomes more powerful and cheaper? > > > > Hardware, and Oracle has improved in it's ability to join. I assume other > databases are faster than in years past as well. > > > pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last > > job? > > Sorry, thought I had. > > My previous employer laid off several folks. I wasn't among them however. > Damagement decided to take this opportunity to redeploy several positions > to HQ in Houston TX. > > If you've spent any time in the Pacific NorthWest, you may understand why > I chose to stay here. Likewise if you've been to Houston :) > > ( hope I didn't offend any Texicans :) > > I'm taking this opportunity to attempt a slight career change and get > into > the contracting side of things. > > Jared > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Jared Still > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- >
RE: Where can I find real-life-examples about ORACLE installation
With your 'free time' now would be a good time to work on putting Remedy out of business. ;-) It wouldn't be too hard and you'd be the hero of countless DBAs! Linda (who is very grateful never to have had to deal with AR but sure heard some ugly stories!) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L installations? Comments embedded On Thursday 19 April 2001 15:31, Eric D. Pierce wrote: ... > As far as I know, structured denormalization is considered to be a > method for modification of a normalized design. There should be > disipline/method/rules that try to get the best performance increase > in a trade-off for the least collateral damage (extra coding). > > I get the impression that this is standard operating procedure, > documented in industry journals, and so forth. > > In your experience, what percentage of "real world" dbs are using > pure normalized designs? In my experience, DBA's are scum and developers lobby the managers with tales of how terrible life will be if they're forced to write code for a normalized database. I guess I'm saying that I can't recall starting with a completely normalized database ( just 3rd normal form here ) and then denormalize if we found it necessary for some reason. We've usually have had some denormalization in as soon as we started doing physical modeling. Sigh. If you're familiar with the Help Desk software 'Remedy', you will know that it has one of the worst schemas ever designed by man or beast. If you haven't seen it, you would have a hard time imagining it. Yes, worse than Finanacials, Lawson, SAP, etc. ( 'where is he going with this?' you ask ) One of my fantasies is to build a help desk system that runs on a normalized schema, open source it, and put Remedy out of business. The schema is that bad. > > Has this changed as hardware becomes more powerful and cheaper? > Hardware, and Oracle has improved in it's ability to join. I assume other databases are faster than in years past as well. > pss, aren't you *ever* going to tell us what happened at your last > job? Sorry, thought I had. My previous employer laid off several folks. I wasn't among them however. Damagement decided to take this opportunity to redeploy several positions to HQ in Houston TX. If you've spent any time in the Pacific NorthWest, you may understand why I chose to stay here. Likewise if you've been to Houston :) ( hope I didn't offend any Texicans :) I'm taking this opportunity to attempt a slight career change and get into the contracting side of things. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Seley, Linda INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
