RE: may not be necessary -- was RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN

2003-03-29 Thread Hemant K Chitale


Chris,
What I plan to do is to issue the series of ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN
BACKUP
commands, to cover all the tablespaces, _before_ the Snaphshot is
created
and then issue the ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP commands, without
using the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND.
I will be referring to
http://www.hds.com/pdf/ods.pdf
for the outline of the backup procedure.
I wonder if you could send me the Hitachi SAN and Oracle DB scripts
in use at your site, or any notes on them ?
Hemant
At 10:03 AM 28-03-03 -0800, you wrote:

We use the 'shadow mirror' process
on a Hitachi SAN (with
Oracle 8.1.7 on Solaris 8 and Veritas VxFS) successfully to refresh
our development db without a suspend, or even hot backup mode.
After the hair that I didn't pull out turned gray (though
I am not willing to detail the incompetence on a semi-public
list), we got the hardware/file system set up correctly and
we have done this several times with no trouble.
One issue I had with Hitachi support was that they insisted I
had to suspend the database at the time of the split when we
were seeing data corruption that was clearly unrelated to Oracle
behavior. It turned out to be low level misconfiguration, I believe
at the Veritas file system level. I never got a satisfactory
explanation.
Here is my current (possibly inaccurate) understanding of the
process. I would be more than happy to be corrected on any of
the details.
The shadow mirror process is 'atomic' in the sense that there is
some kind of journaling so that when the mirror is split, it is
done so that the shadow is a copy of the disk at a particular
time, so it looks like the disk would look after a crash or a
shutdown abort. Oracle crash recovery has worked as advertised,
which is sufficient for our development db needs. If we do get a
bad mirror, we would be able to resync and resplit quickly. But
as I said, we've done this without incident at least 8 or 9
times. The only times we've had to resync and resplit were due
to human error.
If you are using Shadow mirror, and this is for backup purposes,
you may want the extra security of hot backup. But the mirror
split should not cause split blocks, so I'm not sure that it
would actually do much for you. To be honest, I haven't thought
through all the ramifications of using this as a backup method.

If you're not using Shadow mirror, but some other mirror method,
the above may not apply.
Hope this helps.
-Chris

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RE: may not be necessary -- was RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with

2003-03-28 Thread Sarnowski, Chris


We use the 'shadow mirror' process on a Hitachi SAN (with
Oracle 8.1.7 on Solaris 8 and Veritas VxFS) successfully to refresh
our development db without a suspend, or even hot backup mode.

After the hair that I didn't pull out turned gray (though
I am not willing to detail the incompetence on a semi-public
list), we got the hardware/file system set up correctly and
we have done this several times with no trouble.

One issue I had with Hitachi support was that they insisted I
had to suspend the database at the time of the split when we
were seeing data corruption that was clearly unrelated to Oracle
behavior. It turned out to be low level misconfiguration, I believe
at the Veritas file system level. I never got a satisfactory
explanation.

Here is my current (possibly inaccurate) understanding of the
process. I would be more than happy to be corrected on any of
the details.

The shadow mirror process is 'atomic' in the sense that there is
some kind of journaling so that when the mirror is split, it is
done so that the shadow is a copy of the disk at a particular
time, so it looks like the disk would look after a crash or a
shutdown abort. Oracle crash recovery has worked as advertised,
which is sufficient for our development db needs. If we do get a
bad mirror, we would be able to resync and resplit quickly. But
as I said, we've done this without incident at least 8 or 9
times. The only times we've had to resync and resplit were due
to human error.

If you are using Shadow mirror, and this is for backup purposes,
you may want the extra security of hot backup. But the mirror
split should not cause split blocks, so I'm not sure that it
would actually do much for you. To be honest, I haven't thought
through all the ramifications of using this as a backup method.

If you're not using Shadow mirror, but some other mirror method,
the above may not apply.

Hope this helps.
-Chris

 -Original Message-
 From: Hemant K Chitale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:44 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: may not be necessary -- was RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with
 
 
 
 Jeremiah / Deborah,
 
 My understanding is/was that the Snapshot creation wasn't 
 atomic -- it can 
 take a little bit of time
 and, therefore, it becomes necessary to suspend I/O.
 Now, I haven't had a chance yet to speak to the Sun/Hitachi 
 engineers and I 
 am going
 by what management has understood and conveyed to me -- that 
 the database must
 be quiesced.  Hopefully, next week, I will be allowed to 
 speak to the 
 engineers before
 they set up the SAN.
 
 Reading Oracle's documentation in the Backup and Recovery guide
 Using the Oracle8i SUSPEND/RESUME functionality, you can 
 suspend I/O to 
 the database, then split the mirror and make a backup of the 
 split mirror. 
 This feature, which complements the hot backup functionality, 
 allows you to 
 quiesce the database so that no new I/O can be performed. You 
 can then 
 access the suspended database to make backups without I/O 
 interference.
 Note: Some RAID devices benefit from suspending writes while 
 the split 
 operation is occurring; your RAID vendor can advise you on 
 whether your 
 system would benefit from this feature.
 
 and
 After a successful database suspension, you can back up the 
 database to 
 disk or break the mirrors. Because suspending a database does 
 not guarantee 
 immediate termination of I/O, Oracle recommends that you precede the 
 SUSPEND statement with a BEGIN BACKUP statement to place the 
 tablespaces in 
 hot backup mode.
 
 You must use conventional operating system backup methods to 
 back up split 
 mirrors. RMAN cannot make database backups or copies because these 
 operations require reading the datafile headers. After the 
 database backup 
 is finished or the mirrors are re-silvered, then you can 
 resume normal 
 database operations using the RESUME statement.
 
 Backing up a suspended database without splitting mirrors can 
 cause an 
 extended database outage because the database is inaccessible 
 during this 
 time. If backups are taken by splitting mirrors, however, 
 then the outage 
 is nominal. The outage time depends on the size of cache to 
 flush, the 
 number of datafiles, and the time required to break the mirror
 
 
 I did get the impression that a SUSPEND was necessary.
 
 However, I have read a Hitachi document at
 http://www.hds.com/pdf/ods.pdf
 and I think that a SUSPEND is not mandatory.
 
 I will come back to the list when I get more information from 
 the Sun/Hitachi
 engineers and see the scripts/script-templates that they will 
 be providing.
 
 Hemant
 
 


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