RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Jared , no language as powerfull as Java (and it is VERY powerfull) is easy to learn. Yes , it is easy to pick up the basic syntax and write toy programs (which could be much more easily written in perl, tcl or even ksh). That's what i did - i learned some basic java and XML in a week or two and claimed that i know them both. It took me 1/2 a day to realize that i know nothing. -Original Message- Sent: Thu, May 02, 2002 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
There is a big difference between LEARN and becoming an experienced programmer. I do not see any thing wrong when somebody says I learnt java or C in a day, week or month. I learnt Java in a day! I had to write a program that sends/receives a PL/SQL tables to an Oracle stored procedure (I developed). Does this mean I'm a Java programmer? of course no. But I see no problem being one if I wanted to be. It's not a difficult job for an IT person who spent his life doing similar things and programming in many other languages. So Jared I think it took you long time to learn java :) Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jared , no language as powerfull as Java (and it is VERY powerfull) is easy to learn. Yes , it is easy to pick up the basic syntax and write toy programs (which could be much more easily written in perl, tcl or even ksh). That's what i did - i learned some basic java and XML in a week or two and claimed that i know them both. It took me 1/2 a day to realize that i know nothing. -Original Message- Sent: Thu, May 02, 2002 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?- java test
Sun Certified Programmer Practice Exam http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Orchard/9362/java/javacert/newboone1-19.html http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Orchard/9362/java/javacert/newboone20-39.html http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Orchard/9362/java/javacert/newboone40-70.html As always I think this isn't ultimate oracle to say You know java or not But it is a criteria I'm sure one can find something similar in Brainbench, too. Gints Plivna IT Sistçmas, Meríeïa 13, LV1050 Rîga http://www.itsystems.lv/gints/ Andrey Bronfin andreyb@elrontelTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] esoft.com cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2002.05.06 15:23 Please respond to ORACLE-L Jared , no language as powerfull as Java (and it is VERY powerfull) is easy to learn. Yes , it is easy to pick up the basic syntax and write toy programs (which could be much more easily written in perl, tcl or even ksh). That's what i did - i learned some basic java and XML in a week or two and claimed that i know them both. It took me 1/2 a day to realize that i know nothing. -Original Message- Sent: Thu, May 02, 2002 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From:Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent:Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Na, I probably would have got a bonus or something for that. Jared On Thursday 02 May 2002 12:13, Khedr, Waleed wrote: Hope it's not the program that triggered the whole Enron thing :) Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before. Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time. The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened to that. It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
I used to work with Jared. He just has 'The Gift'. For those of us who are mere mortals it takes a little longer :-) --- Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must be pretty smart then. I wonder why rates for java are not $6/hr seeing that it only takes a week to learn. You could probably say any language is easy to learn; it is just ifs, elses, and loops. On Thu, 2 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before. Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time. The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened to that. It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. === message truncated === = Pete Barnett
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice. Wish I had more time to play... Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Hi how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about it ? When does it make sense to use Java instead of PL/SQL ? The problem is that I dislike a mix of different languages within an application. It messes things up. But maybe it makes sense to use PL/SQL for most stuff and Java for some specific things (perhaps accessing a file or using a network resource ?). As far
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
You THINK that you are kidding. I submit to you that in a few years there will be a great demand for Cobol programmers as the current old crop goes into retirement and all the newbe's are learning Java and perl. Start writing those books. They will be needed by the time that you finish them. Just my 2$ (inflation, you know) Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:48 PM Whatever happend to COBOL anyway?? That was so easy to code, along with Fortran, BASIC, Pascal was a lot of fun. What's wrong with storing your data in VSAM files??? I think I hear my pasture calling me...35, and retired...that would be nice. I can write COBOL books to fund my retirement... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Independent contractors in Albany NY who know Cobol are getting $120/hour because all of the original employees who know Cobol are retiring. And the legacy systems are going to be around for quite awhile. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You THINK that you are kidding. I submit to you that in a few years there will be a great demand for Cobol programmers as the current old crop goes into retirement and all the newbe's are learning Java and perl. Start writing those books. They will be needed by the time that you finish them. Just my 2$ (inflation, you know) Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:48 PM Whatever happend to COBOL anyway?? That was so easy to code, along with Fortran, BASIC, Pascal was a lot of fun. What's wrong with storing your data in VSAM files??? I think I hear my pasture calling me...35, and retired...that would be nice. I can write COBOL books to fund my retirement... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
May be it's time to switch back to Cobol! I've done it for four years (Cobol F77 with Codasyl). Regards, Waleed -Original Message- To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: 5/2/02 8:13 AM Independent contractors in Albany NY who know Cobol are getting $120/hour because all of the original employees who know Cobol are retiring. And the legacy systems are going to be around for quite awhile. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You THINK that you are kidding. I submit to you that in a few years there will be a great demand for Cobol programmers as the current old crop goes into retirement and all the newbe's are learning Java and perl. Start writing those books. They will be needed by the time that you finish them. Just my 2$ (inflation, you know) Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:48 PM Whatever happend to COBOL anyway?? That was so easy to code, along with Fortran, BASIC, Pascal was a lot of fun. What's wrong with storing your data in VSAM files??? I think I hear my pasture calling me...35, and retired...that would be nice. I can write COBOL books to fund my retirement... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
I can give you a hand in that :-) Or If you want to write it in spanish. Ramon -Original Message- Thomas F Sent: Thursday, 02 May, 2002 8:13 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Independent contractors in Albany NY who know Cobol are getting $120/hour because all of the original employees who know Cobol are retiring. And the legacy systems are going to be around for quite awhile. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You THINK that you are kidding. I submit to you that in a few years there will be a great demand for Cobol programmers as the current old crop goes into retirement and all the newbe's are learning Java and perl. Start writing those books. They will be needed by the time that you finish them. Just my 2$ (inflation, you know) Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:48 PM Whatever happend to COBOL anyway?? That was so easy to code, along with Fortran, BASIC, Pascal was a lot of fun. What's wrong with storing your data in VSAM files??? I think I hear my pasture calling me...35, and retired...that would be nice. I can write COBOL books to fund my retirement... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ramon E. Estevez INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice. Wish I had more time to play... Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Hi how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
I think that given Jared's strong Perl background, his picking up the syntax was easy enough for him. Heck, I downloaded some Java programs from the web and made changes to them while playing around, and my changes worked just fine (I change colors of moving objects - whoopee, I'm a Java programmer!) But even he said, and I am assuming that Alex is alluding to - that understanding the libraries so that one truely develops OOP programs would take awhile to learn. I rememember doing programming like this once - but it was in Assembly Language class back in 1976. That's when programmers were much closer to the hardware than we are now. Ooops - showed my age again... :( Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared Well Jared, He certainly referenced your message, but I am not sure if he actually read it first. You two actually seem to be in agreement. Java language/syntax is pretty straight forward, using it/libraries, API's, etc are another story. I think he is still just stinging from that crontab -e thread. Steve -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve McClure INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before. Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time. The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened to that. It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Ah, didn't make the connection. crontab -e: now that's just nuts. ;) Jared Steve McClure [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 10:43 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared Well Jared, He certainly referenced your message, but I am not sure if he actually read it first. You two actually seem to be in agreement. Java language/syntax is pretty straight forward, using it/libraries, API's, etc are another story. I think he is still just stinging from that crontab -e thread. Steve -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve McClure INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Java this...PERL thatCOBOL rules It's easy to write and maintain...back to writing my book... -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before. Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time. The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened to that. It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Hope it's not the program that triggered the whole Enron thing :) Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before. Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time. The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened to that. It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
You must be pretty smart then. I wonder why rates for java are not $6/hr seeing that it only takes a week to learn. You could probably say any language is easy to learn; it is just ifs, elses, and loops. On Thu, 2 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before. Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time. The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened to that. It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
-Have another beer
Excellent advice. I think I'll do just that.
Dave
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
yeah, yeah Chris, whatever.
Have another beer and do some creative writing.
;-{)
Jared
Grabowy, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 11:48 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Java this...PERL thatCOBOL rules It's easy to write and
maintain...back to writing my book...
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming
class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before.
Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time.
The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be
hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going
to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened
to that.
It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer
Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff.
Jared
Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 08:23 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it.
Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you
learned in that week.
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote:
Hold on Lisa!
Java is not complex. It's a very simple language
actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm
not using it now: I much prefer Perl.
Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is
another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple.
Jared
On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote:
You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO
language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be
learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out
there.
However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not
much
tho)
I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people
failing
the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had
aced
the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both
classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db
class
because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes
couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight
from
work.)
What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths.
Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Monkey Mama
Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
-Original Message-
From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM
To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very
short period of time, or for that matter, any other language.
I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference,
and
he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these
were
written
by developers that knew what they were doing.
Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's
Learning
PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But
who
the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or
effort
that
I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA
skills,
plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they
blow
out
OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid
technical
alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB,
BC4J,
JDBC,
SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me
what
all
those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep
hearing
that
XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn
that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or
something
to
DML???
Now where the heck did I hide that bottle...
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Lisa,
You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything
else
outside of the db).
In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never*
mentioned)
is
what programming langauage the organization is satisfied
with/settled
upon.
In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Yes indeed. Have often wondered why Perl is'nt considered cross-platform. After all, is'nt it true to say that it probably runs on way more platforms than Java, can be programmed either straight or OOP, is fast and relatively easy to learn. Did I mention it's free. Gotta love those open source folks. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). === message truncated === __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
I think there is a book called Java for Dummies. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Please, someone. Savor a thick and tasty Guinness for me...
I even had someone call my house wanting to do a survey on beer. I laughed
at him and hung up.
Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database BABY OVEN
Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
-Original Message-
From: Farnsworth, Dave [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
-Have another beer
Excellent advice. I think I'll do just that.
Dave
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
yeah, yeah Chris, whatever.
Have another beer and do some creative writing.
;-{)
Jared
Grabowy, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 11:48 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Java this...PERL thatCOBOL rules It's easy to write and
maintain...back to writing my book...
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming
class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before.
Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time.
The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be
hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going
to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened
to that.
It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer
Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff.
Jared
Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 08:23 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it.
Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you
learned in that week.
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote:
Hold on Lisa!
Java is not complex. It's a very simple language
actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm
not using it now: I much prefer Perl.
Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is
another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple.
Jared
On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote:
You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO
language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be
learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out
there.
However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not
much
tho)
I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people
failing
the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had
aced
the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both
classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db
class
because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes
couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight
from
work.)
What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths.
Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Monkey Mama
Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
-Original Message-
From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM
To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very
short period of time, or for that matter, any other language.
I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference,
and
he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these
were
written
by developers that knew what they were doing.
Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's
Learning
PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But
who
the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or
effort
that
I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA
skills,
plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they
blow
out
OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid
technical
alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB,
BC4J,
JDBC,
SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me
what
all
those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep
hearing
that
XML is going to put me out
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Ahhyes...COBOL for Dummiesthat sounds like a good name for a book -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think there is a book called Java for Dummies. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
that was me! rude of you to hang-up on me! I was just getting to the good
questions!
Please, someone. Savor a thick and tasty Guinness for me...
I even had someone call my house wanting to do a survey on beer. I laughed
at him and hung up.
Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database BABY OVEN
Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
-Original Message-
From: Farnsworth, Dave [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
-Have another beer
Excellent advice. I think I'll do just that.
Dave
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
yeah, yeah Chris, whatever.
Have another beer and do some creative writing.
;-{)
Jared
Grabowy, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 11:48 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Java this...PERL thatCOBOL rules It's easy to write and
maintain...back to writing my book...
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming
class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before.
Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time.
The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be
hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going
to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened
to that.
It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer
Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff.
Jared
Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 08:23 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it.
Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you
learned in that week.
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote:
Hold on Lisa!
Java is not complex. It's a very simple language
actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm
not using it now: I much prefer Perl.
Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is
another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple.
Jared
On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote:
You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO
language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be
learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out
there.
However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not
much
tho)
I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people
failing
the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had
aced
the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both
classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db
class
because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes
couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight
from
work.)
What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths.
Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Monkey Mama
Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
-Original Message-
From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM
To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very
short period of time, or for that matter, any other language.
I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference,
and
he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these
were
written
by developers that knew what they were doing.
Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's
Learning
PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But
who
the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or
effort
that
I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA
skills,
plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they
blow
out
OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid
technical
alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB,
BC4J,
JDBC,
SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me
what
all
those mean, because I can't
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
You...must...resist.
Only...afew.more...days.
:o)
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Please, someone. Savor a thick and tasty Guinness for me...
I even had someone call my house wanting to do a survey on beer. I laughed
at him and hung up.
Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database BABY OVEN
Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
-Original Message-
From: Farnsworth, Dave [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
-Have another beer
Excellent advice. I think I'll do just that.
Dave
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
yeah, yeah Chris, whatever.
Have another beer and do some creative writing.
;-{)
Jared
Grabowy, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 11:48 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Java this...PERL thatCOBOL rules It's easy to write and
maintain...back to writing my book...
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming
class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before.
Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time.
The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be
hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going
to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened
to that.
It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer
Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff.
Jared
Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/02/2002 08:23 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it.
Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you
learned in that week.
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote:
Hold on Lisa!
Java is not complex. It's a very simple language
actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm
not using it now: I much prefer Perl.
Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is
another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple.
Jared
On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote:
You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO
language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be
learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out
there.
However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not
much
tho)
I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people
failing
the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had
aced
the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both
classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db
class
because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes
couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight
from
work.)
What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths.
Lisa Koivu
Oracle Database Monkey Mama
Fairfield Resorts, Inc.
5259 Coconut Creek Parkway
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063
-Original Message-
From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM
To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very
short period of time, or for that matter, any other language.
I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference,
and
he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these
were
written
by developers that knew what they were doing.
Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's
Learning
PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But
who
the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or
effort
that
I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA
skills,
plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they
blow
out
OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid
technical
alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB,
BC4J,
JDBC,
SQLJ, PSP, JVM
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Recess is over children. Let it go. Time to get back to work. Jeeze By the way Alex, nice to see another m-net.arbornet.org user on the list. Brian P. MacLean Oracle DBA, OCP8i Jared.Still@ra disys.comTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? om 05/02/02 12:33 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Watch for my new book! Learn Java in 20 minutes and earn BIG Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Hmmm... Appears I'm violating some of my own rules here. My bad, I apoligize to the list. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 12:38 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? And here I thought this was a private message. You have unfortunately caught me in a rather stressful week, and I find great relief in greeting arrogance with sarcasm. Don't worry about it, what I learned in a week would take you a month. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 12:23 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? You must be pretty smart then. I wonder why rates for java are not $6/hr seeing that it only takes a week to learn. You could probably say any language is easy to learn; it is just ifs, elses, and loops. On Thu, 2 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before. Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time. The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened to that. It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Okay then, but you are on probation for 30 daze, don't do it again ;^) Brian Jared.Still@ra disys.comTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? om 05/02/02 04:53 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Hmmm... Appears I'm violating some of my own rules here. My bad, I apoligize to the list. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 12:38 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? And here I thought this was a private message. You have unfortunately caught me in a rather stressful week, and I find great relief in greeting arrogance with sarcasm. Don't worry about it, what I learned in a week would take you a month. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 12:23 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? You must be pretty smart then. I wonder why rates for java are not $6/hr seeing that it only takes a week to learn. You could probably say any language is easy to learn; it is just ifs, elses, and loops. On Thu, 2 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It ain't that tough. We're not talking about taking a programming class without any experience, I've done a bit of it before. Learning all the API's, etc.: that would take some time. The language? It isn't that difficult, though I would be hard put to write any at the moment. The job I was going to use Java on was at Enron, and we all know what happened to that. It's been a year since I took the class, and I *much* prefer Perl. It can run circles around Java for most stuff. Jared Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/2002 08:23 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? It took you a week to learn it? Then you obviously do not know it. Syntax is one thing design is another. I would love to know what you learned in that week. On Thu, 2 May 2002, Jared Still wrote: Hold on Lisa! Java is not complex. It's a very simple language actually. It took me a week to learn it, though I'm not using it now: I much prefer Perl. Getting a handle on all of the libraries and API's is another story, but Java as a language is pretty simple. Jared On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:14, Koivu, Lisa wrote: You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
XML = Extensible Markup Language, which is actually a subset of SGML ;P (Standard Generalised Markup Language) It allows a web type developer to create their own user defined tags, that web applications can then pass data to other background applications to handle - once the background app has been programmed to handle the XML tags appropriately.. Not something that is going to make a DBA redundant in my view.. kind of like SHAMELESS PLUG !-- Plug inserted here -- /SHAMELESS PLUG In it's most basic form of course.. ;) HTH Mark -Original Message- Chris Sent: 30 April 2002 18:14 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice. Wish I had more time to play... Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Hi how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about it ? When does it make sense to use Java instead of PL/SQL ? The problem is that I dislike a mix of different languages within an application. It messes things up. But maybe it makes sense to use PL/SQL for most stuff and Java for some specific things (perhaps accessing a file or using a network resource ?). As far as I know, there is an option to compile the Java into platform dependend code, which would make it execute much faster then bytecode (and PL/SQL?), since the later has to be interpreted at run-time. Any opinions ? Regards, -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. April 2002 16:09 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re:pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Lisa, It is both true false at the same time. Obviously any anonymous blocks you submit to the database are fully interpreted. PL/SQL that you store in the database as procedures, functions, and packages get partially compiled into a p-code. This makes the code ready for execution, but retains a modular design so that if your DBA reloads catproc your code is not totally destroyed. Where I think PL/SQL buys us a lot of performance is in reducing the communications outside of the database that is otherwise needed. There's no JDBC driver or other
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? : the XML sub-thread
Hee hee. XML making DBAs redundant. Sorry Mark, I know that's not what you said but I'm DBAing for an XML-based project at the minute and I've rarely been busier. For example, the latest version of the XDK (which Technet encourages you to download NOW!) doesn't include the files you need to run it with 8i databases despite including instructions on how to do it. Never mind the quality, feel the hype. Mind you, when it's working it does the job well enough. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 11:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L XML = Extensible Markup Language, which is actually a subset of SGML ;P (Standard Generalised Markup Language) It allows a web type developer to create their own user defined tags, that web applications can then pass data to other background applications to handle - once the background app has been programmed to handle the XML tags appropriately.. Not something that is going to make a DBA redundant in my view.. kind of like SHAMELESS PLUG !-- Plug inserted here -- /SHAMELESS PLUG In it's most basic form of course.. ;) HTH Mark This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender. You should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you. Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426. England. Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1 1DP. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Hately Mike INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Whatever happend to COBOL anyway?? That was so easy to code, along with Fortran, BASIC, Pascal was a lot of fun. What's wrong with storing your data in VSAM files??? I think I hear my pasture calling me...35, and retired...that would be nice. I can write COBOL books to fund my retirement... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice. Wish I had more time to play... Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Hi how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about it ? When does it make sense to use Java instead of PL/SQL ? The problem is that I dislike a mix of different languages within an application. It messes things up. But maybe it makes sense to use PL/SQL for most stuff and Java for some specific things (perhaps accessing a file or using a network resource ?). As far as I know
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Saw some basic demo's at a BMC/Simulus seminar revealed that compiled units were certainly faster than their interpreted counterparts - I can't remember off hand but it was in the order of 20-30% maybe? Of course, typically the main performance problems with PL/SQL are: a) poor SQL within the code b) inefficient (ie row at a time) handling of the results neither of which I believe native compilation will help with greatly. hth connor --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Waleed, have you actually tried this? Or anyone else for that matter? Jared Khedr, Waleed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/29/2002 04:23 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? See this note: http://metalink.oracle.com/metalink/plsql/ml2_documents.showDocument?p_datab ase_id=NOTp_id=151224.1 Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to manipulate data within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like that slow poke, Java)? I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.uk under explicit/implicit cursors, under pl/sql. What on earth? Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please help me understand this... My green may be showing, but my gosh. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Baby Oven Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = Connor McDonald http://www.oracledba.co.uk http://www.oaktable.net Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Yup - its compiled into (if I recall correctly) p-code which is a tokenized and optimized version of the source. You can see a number of IDL prefixed tables under SYS which contain the compiled code. You'll see the term DIANA floating about which is related to this as well. hth connor --- Koivu, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to manipulate data within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like that slow poke, Java)? I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.uk under explicit/implicit cursors, under pl/sql. What on earth? Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please help me understand this... My green may be showing, but my gosh. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Baby Oven Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = Connor McDonald http://www.oracledba.co.uk http://www.oaktable.net Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Saw some basic demo's at a BMC/Simulus seminar revealed that compiled units were certainly faster than their interpreted counterparts - I can't remember off hand but it was in the order of 20-30% maybe? Of course, typically the main performance problems with PL/SQL are: a) poor SQL within the code b) inefficient (ie row at a time) handling of the results c) Confucean respect for specs (eg SELECT COUNT(*) to test for existence) d) Confucean respect for specs (eg reprogramming nested loops) e) Confusion (if you thought I was going to start with the same word you're wrong :-)) between 'relational table' and 'sequential file' f) Love for complexity g) ... neither of which I believe native compilation will help with greatly. I second that ! Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroul INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice. Wish I had more time to play... Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Hi how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about it ? When does it make sense to use Java instead of PL/SQL ? The problem is that I dislike a mix of different languages within an application. It messes things up. But maybe it makes sense to use PL/SQL for most stuff and Java for some specific things (perhaps accessing a file or using a network resource ?). As far as I know, there is an option to compile the Java into platform dependend code, which would make it execute much faster then bytecode (and PL/SQL?), since the later has to be interpreted at run-time. Any opinions ? Regards, -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. April 2002 16:09 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re:pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Lisa, It is both true false at the same time. Obviously any anonymous blocks you submit to the database are fully interpreted. PL/SQL that you store in the database as procedures, functions, and packages get partially compiled into a p-code. This makes the code ready for execution, but retains a modular design so that if your DBA reloads catproc your code is not totally destroyed. Where I think PL/SQL buys us a lot of performance is in reducing the communications outside of the database that is otherwise needed. There's no JDBC driver or other miscellaneous mess (like SQL*Net) required. It's all handled inside the kernel. Now the bad part about PL/SQL that Java handles better is platform independence. You can run Java on your client, the apps server or database without a problem. PL/SQL on the other hand must be run in the database. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Koivu; Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4/29/2002 2:52 PM Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to manipulate data within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like that slow poke, Java)? I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.uk under explicit/implicit cursors, under pl/sql. What on earth? Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please help me understand this... My green may be showing, but my gosh. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Baby Oven Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice. Wish I had more time to play... Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Hi how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about it ? When does it make sense to use Java instead of PL/SQL ? The problem is that I dislike a mix of different languages within an application. It messes things up. But maybe it makes sense to use PL/SQL for most stuff and Java for some specific things (perhaps accessing a file or using a network resource ?). As far as I know, there is an option to compile the Java into platform dependend code, which would make it execute much faster then bytecode (and PL/SQL?), since the later has to be interpreted at run-time. Any opinions ? Regards, -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. April 2002 16:09 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re:pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Lisa, It is both true false at the same time. Obviously any anonymous blocks you submit to the database are fully interpreted. PL/SQL that you store in the database as procedures, functions, and packages get partially compiled into a p-code. This makes the code ready for execution, but retains a modular design so that if your DBA reloads catproc your code is not totally destroyed. Where I think PL/SQL buys us a lot of performance is in reducing the communications outside of the database that is otherwise needed. There's no JDBC driver or other miscellaneous mess (like SQL*Net) required. It's all handled inside the kernel. Now the bad part about PL/SQL that Java handles better is platform independence. You can run Java on your client, the apps server or database without a problem. PL/SQL on the other hand must be run in the database. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Koivu; Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4/29/2002 2:52 PM Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to manipulate data within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like that slow poke, Java)? I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.uk under explicit/implicit cursors, under pl/sql. What on earth? Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please help me understand this... My green may be showing, but my gosh. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Baby Oven Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
And if you want to see the Diana-code (it's an Ada-term as I recall) all you have to do is take some wrap'ed code and "Dec" it, since wrap'ed code is nothing but Diana-code that has been Hex'ed. Guess who told me that... Mogens Connor McDonald wrote: Yup - its "compiled" into (if I recall correctly)p-code which is a tokenized and optimized version ofthe source. You can see a number of IDL prefixedtables under SYS which contain the "compiled" code. You'll see the term DIANA floating about which isrelated to this as well.hthconnor --- "Koivu, Lisa" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can this be true? How can this be? If it'soptimized to manipulate datawithin the database, how can it be fast if it'sinterpreted (like that slowpoke, Java)? I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.ukunder explicit/implicitcursors, under pl/sql. What on earth? Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please helpme understand this...My "green" may be showing, but my gosh. Lisa KoivuOracle Database Baby OvenFairfield Resorts, Inc.5259 Coconut Creek ParkwayFt. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Service s-- (858) 538-5051 FAX:(858) 538-5051San Diego, California-- Public Internetaccess / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send anE-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUBORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removedfrom). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information(like subscribing). =Connor McDonaldhttp://www.oracledba.co.ukhttp://www.oaktable.net"Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue"__Do You Yahoo!?Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.yahoo.com
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice. Wish I had more time to play... Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Hi how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about it ? When does it make sense to use Java instead of PL/SQL ? The problem is that I dislike a mix of different languages within an application. It messes things up. But maybe it makes sense to use PL/SQL for most stuff and Java for some specific things (perhaps accessing a file or using a network resource ?). As far as I know, there is an option to compile the Java into platform dependend code, which would make it execute much faster then bytecode (and PL/SQL?), since the later has to be interpreted at run-time. Any opinions ? Regards, -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. April 2002 16:09 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re:pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Lisa, It is both true false at the same time. Obviously any anonymous blocks you submit to the database are fully interpreted. PL/SQL that you store in the database as procedures, functions, and packages get partially compiled into a p-code. This makes the code ready for execution, but retains a modular design so that if your DBA reloads catproc your code is not totally destroyed. Where I think PL/SQL buys us a lot of performance is in reducing the communications outside of the database that is otherwise needed. There's no JDBC driver or other miscellaneous mess (like SQL*Net) required. It's all handled inside the kernel. Now the bad part about PL/SQL that Java handles better is platform independence. You can run Java on your client, the apps server or database without a problem. PL/SQL on the other hand must be run in the database. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Koivu; Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4/29/2002 2:52 PM Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to manipulate data within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like that slow poke, Java)? I see
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
You have a point Chris, but pl/sql is nowhere near as complex as an OO language like java or C++, IMHO. I agree with Tom that pl/sql can be learned fairly easily in comparison to the many other choices out there. However, it takes a bit of database savvy to do it correctly. (Not much tho) I was amazed in my database class in college that the same people failing the simple entity-relationship modeling portion of the class that had aced the Op Systems and networking classes we took. I nearly failed both classes, they were so complex. I was the teacher's pet in the db class because I asked him questions that made him think, and he sometimes couldn't answer. (And I had to wear a skirt - night student, straight from work.) What's easy for who is dependent on the person's strengths. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? IMHO, I don't believe that you can properly learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time, or for that matter, any other language. I attended Steve Feuerstein's presentation at MAOP-AOTC conference, and he tore into many real-life examples of PL/SQL. Supposedly, these were written by developers that knew what they were doing. Granted, if a smart developer sits down and reads Feuerstein's Learning PL/SQL and Best Practices books, then perhaps they will be good. But who the hell has free time? There is no free time on any project or effort that I know of!! I'm struggling with trying to improve my Oracle DBA skills, plus some developers skills so I can speak their language when they blow out OPEN_CURSORS or something. My head is swimming in the stupid technical alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP...and don't ask me what all those mean, because I can't keep them straight. But I do keep hearing that XML is going to put me out of a job, so I guess I should learn that...whatever that is. Isn't XML an add-on, or extension, or something to DML??? Now where the heck did I hide that bottle... -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, You are right about the debate between PL/SQL Java (or anything else outside of the db). In my mind, the deciding factor (and something that is *never* mentioned) is what programming langauage the organization is satisfied with/settled upon. In my little opinion, *any* programmer can learn PL/SQL in a very short period of time. This means that development and maintenance costs are relatively low. If an IT shop is stronger in Java, then they should probably program in Java, or Cobol, or Ada, or whatever the flavor of the decade happens to be (lets bring back APL!). IT tool selection/standards should be the deciding factor. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is something that's been debated on the list in the past. The general consensus was: For manipulating data in the database, nothing beats pl/sql. It is well suited for this purpose. For everything else, java could beat it. I am sure fellow list members will post links describing studies. I remember seeing these last year. Stefan, have you tried running your own test? There's a sure fire way to convince yourself. Even a small test (no fancy code) would suffice. Wish I had more time to play... Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Stefan Jahnke [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:AW: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? Hi how about Java within Oracle. What do you think about it ? When does it make sense to use Java instead of PL/SQL ? The problem is that I dislike a mix of different languages within an application. It messes things up. But maybe it makes sense to use PL/SQL for most stuff and Java for some specific things (perhaps accessing a file or using a network resource ?). As far as I know, there is an option to compile the Java into platform dependend code, which would make it execute much faster then bytecode (and PL/SQL?), since the later has to be interpreted at run-time. Any opinions ? Regards, -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. April 2002 16:09 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
I wrote something more substantial up on this a few months ago, but can't easily find it right now. So, I'll just cut-and-paste a blurb I found: "DIANA (Descriptive Intermediate Attributed Notation for Ada), is a high-level tree-structured intermediate language that provides communication internal to compilers and other tools. In Oracle, DIANA is an intermediate representation of a PL/SQL program unit, generated by the compiler (SYS.DIANA package). The Diana includes syntactic and semantic information for a compiled program unit." Don Granaman [OraSaurus] - Original Message - From: Mogens Nørgaard To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:08 PM Subject: Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? And if you want to see the Diana-code (it's an Ada-term as I recall) all you have to do is take some wrap'ed code and "Dec" it, since wrap'ed code is nothing but Diana-code that has been Hex'ed. Guess who told me that...Mogens
Re: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Sometimes they appear and disappear so quickly that tracking them is akin to particle physics! According to the pundits, every new technology is the one that is going to revolutionize the industry. ;-) A few from Oracle - OPO (Oracle Power Objects), ODP (Oracle Developer Programme), CDE, OPS (uh.. RAC), etc. Don Granaman [OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:59 PM Chris, alphabet soup, XML, XDK, XSQL, XSLT, XPath, SOAP, ASP, ADO, EJB, BC4J, JDBC, SQLJ, PSP, JVM, JSP, J2EE, EAD, RMI, CORBA, IIOP... wait - some of these are obsolete already!! :) Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
See this note: http://metalink.oracle.com/metalink/plsql/ml2_documents.showDocument?p_datab ase_id=NOTp_id=151224.1 Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to manipulate data within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like that slow poke, Java)? I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.uk under explicit/implicit cursors, under pl/sql. What on earth? Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please help me understand this... My green may be showing, but my gosh. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Baby Oven Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
Waleed, have you actually tried this? Or anyone else for that matter? Jared Khedr, Waleed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/29/2002 04:23 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? See this note: http://metalink.oracle.com/metalink/plsql/ml2_documents.showDocument?p_datab ase_id=NOTp_id=151224.1 Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to manipulate data within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like that slow poke, Java)? I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.uk under explicit/implicit cursors, under pl/sql. What on earth? Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please help me understand this... My green may be showing, but my gosh. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Baby Oven Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED?
I've just seen when I posted it. I knew Oracle had this feature for its Java engine. I will try to run something in native mode and compare its performance with the INTERPRETED one. Regards, Waleed -Original Message- To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: 4/29/02 7:48 PM Waleed, have you actually tried this? Or anyone else for that matter? Jared Khedr, Waleed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/29/2002 04:23 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: pl/sql is INTERPRETED? See this note: http://metalink.oracle.com/metalink/plsql/ml2_documents.showDocument?p_d atab ase_id=NOTp_id=151224.1 Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can this be true? How can this be? If it's optimized to manipulate data within the database, how can it be fast if it's interpreted (like that slow poke, Java)? I see this on Connor's website www.oracledba.co.uk under explicit/implicit cursors, under pl/sql. What on earth? Can someone elaborate, namely, Connor?? Please help me understand this... My green may be showing, but my gosh. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Baby Oven Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
