Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
And with ascii files, security becomes an issue. Its easy to change data and load it back without errors... And its easy to see confidential data too. =) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lyndon, Beacuse it's proprietary. Any dunce can create a flat ascii text file, which probably accounts for the wide audience it gets. But it takes a PHD to read a binary one. BTW: IBM and M$'s dump files are binary as well. Also, Oracle's default installation does scale, although not as well as it should. And to boot that's the reason your boss pays you. Look at as job justification. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 10:34 AM Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon, True, an export file is peculiar to Oracle. The difference between a commercial database and an open source one. IBM and MicroSludge do the same. The functional purpose though is the same. Question: Why a binary file? More efficient? I find the plain text output more useful and easy to store. Recovery is easier as well, just cut and past the relevant lines of script and run it. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Maria Aurora VT de la Vega Oracle DBA Philippine Stock Exchange, Inc. Failure is only postponed success as long as courage 'coaches' ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Maria Aurora VT de la Vega INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
I too have seen too many DBA wannabes...mainly because of the pay Once they're in to it...only then do they see how complicated the job really is... Lyndon Tiu wrote: On Wednesday 12 February 2003 08:14 am, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Lyndon A rule of thumb in job-seeking is when you don't have experience, your education counts all the more. I agree. No Comp. Sci. education means - To quote Oracle 9i: Unemployable, Can't break-in, Just can't get it. This applies when you are just starting your career or when you are changing careers. I haven't seen too many DBA job postings that require a BSCS (always glad to be educated, though), but I can see if there were two candidates who had no Oracle experience or other IT experience, the one with a BSCS might be selected. Have you considered getting the OCP? I have OCP, SCJP, LPI, SCSA, SCNA, EIEIO. I do believe that these certifications are worthless without job experience. Order of importance: 1) People you know (i.e. kiss ass) 2) Experience 3) Education 4) Certifications One heck of a lot less effort than a BSCS, and might carry more weight when being considered for a position. I don't think the OCP is a cure-all, but I think it can demonstrate a sincere interest in an Oracle career. Think of it as a way to separate yourself from other wannabes. I work for a company where a third are wannabes, and they kiss ass better than me : \ My impression is that during the dot-com wave a lot of people crowded into the IT field, and some of them jumped on Oracle. That might leave the field crowded at the moment, but any field has turnover. Some people become discouraged, others find other careers that suit them better, etc. If you take a 20-year perspective, the Oracle DBA field has nearly always had more demand than supply. Hey what am I saying . . . no way! If anyone on this list is getting discouraged, this is the time to pursue that truck driving career you've always dreamed of. Go! Hurry! ;-) I will be while before things get cleared up. By then, I'll be a pensioner. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Maria Aurora VT de la Vega Oracle DBA Philippine Stock Exchange, Inc. Failure is only postponed success as long as courage 'coaches' ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Maria Aurora VT de la Vega INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
Going back to the topic. I've been trying to avoid using RMAN for a long time... I've always been confident with my own scripts... But once you start getting more and more servers...more and more databases and on different platforms...you can get tired making separate scripts for windows and unix. Checking it one by one and when you change something...change it on each server. And another thing I liked about RMAN is that it checks each block for corruption and it copies only used blocks. Saves a lot of space. You can't do that with a file backup. =) Michael Fontana wrote: As a longtime Oracle DBA who has used many products, including RMAN, I find myself guilty of a paradoxical mistrust of RMAN, dating back from the time when Oracle has tried several products, including integration with Legato and other hardware/software backup vendors, without a consistent direction. In the little I've used RMAN, it seems quite complex and kludgy. Even the nomenclature and commands used by Oracle within the product are a challenge to learn. While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic and predictable recovery scenarios, true recovery situations are never so neat and clean. This is not an advertisement for any particular product, but we've had great success in my shop with a product called SQL*Backtrack from BMC. I've also heard that Veritas makes a good product, but I've not used it. From what I've seen of RMAN, at least so far, I feel far more confident with the home-cooked scripts I've been using for years. Any comments, or other interesting experiences? Perhaps we can do a list poll of favorite/preferred backup software? -- Maria Aurora VT de la Vega Oracle DBA Philippine Stock Exchange, Inc. "Failure is only postponed success as long as courage 'coaches' ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory."
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
On Thursday 13 February 2003 07:08 pm, Maria Aurora VT de la Vega wrote: I too have seen too many DBA wannabes...mainly because of the pay Once they're in to it...only then do they see how complicated the job really is... It is very complicated I agree. PostGreSQL does not come close to Oracle in funxtionality. I am already over-worked trying to manage just one PostGreSQL instance. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
On Thursday 13 February 2003 06:58 pm, Maria Aurora VT de la Vega wrote: And with ascii files, security becomes an issue. Its easy to change data and load it back without errors... And its easy to see confidential data too. You are right. That's where encryption comes into play. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon A rule of thumb in job-seeking is when you don't have experience, your education counts all the more. This applies when you are just starting your career or when you are changing careers. I haven't seen too many DBA job postings that require a BSCS (always glad to be educated, though), but I can see if there were two candidates who had no Oracle experience or other IT experience, the one with a BSCS might be selected. Have you considered getting the OCP? One heck of a lot less effort than a BSCS, and might carry more weight when being considered for a position. I don't think the OCP is a cure-all, but I think it can demonstrate a sincere interest in an Oracle career. Think of it as a way to separate yourself from other wannabes. My impression is that during the dot-com wave a lot of people crowded into the IT field, and some of them jumped on Oracle. That might leave the field crowded at the moment, but any field has turnover. Some people become discouraged, others find other careers that suit them better, etc. If you take a 20-year perspective, the Oracle DBA field has nearly always had more demand than supply. Hey what am I saying . . . no way! If anyone on this list is getting discouraged, this is the time to pursue that truck driving career you've always dreamed of. Go! Hurry! ;-) Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Quoting DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon To me, being a DBA is more an attitude than an HR position. Study what DBAs do and that will carry you forward. I don't see what having a BSCS has to do with it. And I speak as someone who has done a lot of computer science at the graduate level. During the dark days, prepare, so when the industry picks up again, you are in a position to ride the surging wave. B.Sc. more from the standpoint of getting your foot into that door. I don't think it actually helps you get the job done, only that it will get you the job in the first place. Even junior position DBA require a B.Sc. (those that I've read). As far as the wave is concerned, it's getting too crowded at the crest. Too many people wannbea DBA. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
On Wednesday 12 February 2003 08:14 am, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Lyndon A rule of thumb in job-seeking is when you don't have experience, your education counts all the more. I agree. No Comp. Sci. education means - To quote Oracle 9i: Unemployable, Can't break-in, Just can't get it. This applies when you are just starting your career or when you are changing careers. I haven't seen too many DBA job postings that require a BSCS (always glad to be educated, though), but I can see if there were two candidates who had no Oracle experience or other IT experience, the one with a BSCS might be selected. Have you considered getting the OCP? I have OCP, SCJP, LPI, SCSA, SCNA, EIEIO. I do believe that these certifications are worthless without job experience. Order of importance: 1) People you know (i.e. kiss ass) 2) Experience 3) Education 4) Certifications One heck of a lot less effort than a BSCS, and might carry more weight when being considered for a position. I don't think the OCP is a cure-all, but I think it can demonstrate a sincere interest in an Oracle career. Think of it as a way to separate yourself from other wannabes. I work for a company where a third are wannabes, and they kiss ass better than me : \ My impression is that during the dot-com wave a lot of people crowded into the IT field, and some of them jumped on Oracle. That might leave the field crowded at the moment, but any field has turnover. Some people become discouraged, others find other careers that suit them better, etc. If you take a 20-year perspective, the Oracle DBA field has nearly always had more demand than supply. Hey what am I saying . . . no way! If anyone on this list is getting discouraged, this is the time to pursue that truck driving career you've always dreamed of. Go! Hurry! ;-) I will be while before things get cleared up. By then, I'll be a pensioner. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Hi Lyndon hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database server. Not suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're looking for an SQL database to embed into your Java app. Regards, Stefan -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Februar 2003 05:14 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: RMAN: I don't trust it On Monday 10 February 2003 07:23 pm, Richard Ji wrote: Lyndon, You are comparing Apple with Orange here. I can backup my hsql database which is stored in a text file with: What's hsql ? cp my_db my_db.backup I do not undertstand this command. Oracle database files are in binary format. Simply copying does not turn it into text sql scripts. Could you please explain further? Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon, pg_dump equals export in Oracle. Actually pg_dump all = export full=y. It's just a syntax difference. And if you have a full export all you need to to recreate the database is create the system tablespace. And yes it is easy with Oracle, if you keep it simple. Dick Goulet Database recovery is easy, the hard part is figuring out what broke what you have to fix it. Reply Separator Author: Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/10/2003 3:03 PM If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re:RE: RMAN: I don't trust it
=Tahoma size=2-Original Message-BRBFrom:/B Michael Fontana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]BRBSent:/B Monday, February 10, 2003 5:04 PMBRBTo:/B Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LBRBSubject:/B RMAN: I don't trust itBRBR/FONT/DIVFONT size=3BRAs a longtime Oracle DBA who has used many products, including RMAN, I find myselfBRguilty of a paradoxical mistrust of RMAN, dating back from the time when Oracle has triedBRseveral products, including integration with Legato and other hardware/software backup vendors,BRwithout a consistent direction.nbsp; In the little I've used RMAN, it seems quite complex and kludgy.nbsp; BREven the nomenclature and commands used by Oracle within the product are a challenge to learn.BRBRWhile I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic and predictable recovery scenarios, true BRrecovery situations are never so neat and clean.nbsp; This is not an advertisement for any particularBRproduct, but we've had great success in my shop with a product called SQL*Backtrack from BMC.BRI've also heard that Veritas makes a good product, but I've not used it.nbsp; BRBRFrom what I've seen of RMAN, at least so far, I feel far more confident with the home-cooked scriptsBRI've been using for years.nbsp; BRBRAny comments, or other interesting experiences?nbsp; BRBRPerhaps we can do a list poll of favorite/preferred backup software?BRBR/FONTBR/BLOCKQUOTE/BODY/HTML -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: pg_dump equals export in Oracle. Actually pg_dump all = export full=y. It's just a syntax difference. And if you have a full export all you need to to recreate the database is create the system tablespace. And yes it is easy with Oracle, if you keep it simple. WRONG!!! --- From Oracle9i Database Utilities Part No. A90192-01 page 1-2: An Export file is an Oracle binary-format dump file that is typically located on disk or tape. The dump files can be transferred using FTP or physically transported (in Before Using Export the case of tape) to a different site. The files can then be used with the Import utility to transfer data between databases that are on systems not connected through a network. The files can also be used as backups in addition to normal backup procedures. Export dump files can only be read by the Oracle Import utility. The version of the Import utility cannot be earlier than the version of the Export utility used to create the dump file. --- The Export file is not equal to pg_dump's output simply because pg_dump's output is an actual plain text sql script that you can edit with a plain text editor (i.e. vi), or simply run in a different SQL based database. Export dump files are binary and are proprietary only to Oracle (i.e. no other database understands it unless you convert it first with some automagic third-party utility). -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Lyndon hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database server. Not suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're looking for an SQL database to embed into your Java app. I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is not scalable means I'd rather use Access. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
AW: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Hi I just posted that as reply to your question about hsql (what is it ?). But you're right here, it is not very scalable and also not meant to compete with Oracle or PostgreSQL. Enjoy your day, Stefan Jahnke Consultant BOV Aktiengesellschaft Voice: +49 201 - 4513-298 Fax: +49 201 - 4513-149 mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please remove nospam to contact me via email. visit our website: http://www.bov.de subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.bov.de/presse/newsletter.asp Sicherheitsluecken mit IT-Security-Konzepten von BOV effizient schliessen! Weitere Informationen unter +49 201/45 13-240 oder E-Mail an mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen ausschliessen. As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments given above. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Februar 2003 16:54 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it Quoting Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Lyndon hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database server. Not suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're looking for an SQL database to embed into your Java app. I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is not scalable means I'd rather use Access. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Well no. Since you are comparing Postgresql with Oracle, why can't I compare it with HSql or any other database for that matter. And is postgresql scalable compare to Oracle? Can it handle my Terabyte database? -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Quoting Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Lyndon hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database server. Not suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're looking for an SQL database to embed into your Java app. I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is not scalable means I'd rather use Access. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: AW: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi I just posted that as reply to your question about hsql (what is it ?). I misunderstood your previous answer. I thought you were talking about an Oracle command that can export a plain text sql script like pg_dump that's why I asked. Thank you. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
I agree that HSql is not meant to compete with Oracle or Postgresql. But then is Postgresql meant to compete with Oracle? I don't think so. My point of bring HSql in is to show that you aren't comparing the samething. It would make more sense say to compare the diffculty of backup/recovery between Oracle, DB2, MS SQL, because these databases are in the same playing field. Richard Ji -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi I just posted that as reply to your question about hsql (what is it ?). But you're right here, it is not very scalable and also not meant to compete with Oracle or PostgreSQL. Enjoy your day, Stefan Jahnke Consultant BOV Aktiengesellschaft Voice: +49 201 - 4513-298 Fax: +49 201 - 4513-149 mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please remove nospam to contact me via email. visit our website: http://www.bov.de subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.bov.de/presse/newsletter.asp Sicherheitsluecken mit IT-Security-Konzepten von BOV effizient schliessen! Weitere Informationen unter +49 201/45 13-240 oder E-Mail an mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen ausschliessen. As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments given above. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Februar 2003 16:54 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it Quoting Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Lyndon hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database server. Not suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're looking for an SQL database to embed into your Java app. I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is not scalable means I'd rather use Access. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting Richard Ji [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well no. Since you are comparing Postgresql with Oracle, why can't I compare it with HSql or any other database for that matter. You can compare anything here. I misunderstood hsql as an Oracle command/script/package (new?, hidden?, secret??) that I have never encountered before. That's why I freaked out when someone mentioned You can do this with that... ! I did not get the point that hsql is a different database. Anyways. It's good to know there is another database out there. Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting Richard Ji [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I wonder how scalable PostGreSQL is by default using default configs? I know Oracle in it's default configuration ain't scalable. Funny cause I know certain companies use Oracle thinking this is the solution to their database scalability problem. Only to be surprised when the DB stops working and then finding out later that the init.ora file needs to be edited for scalability. Oracle does not scale itself. It needs to be configured to scale. Why isn't Oracle scalable by default? -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
It does sound like a database command, doesn't it? There are a quite a few open source database out there, depends on what you need, they might just do the job as good as any others. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 12:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Quoting Richard Ji [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well no. Since you are comparing Postgresql with Oracle, why can't I compare it with HSql or any other database for that matter. You can compare anything here. I misunderstood hsql as an Oracle command/script/package (new?, hidden?, secret??) that I have never encountered before. That's why I freaked out when someone mentioned You can do this with that... ! I did not get the point that hsql is a different database. Anyways. It's good to know there is another database out there. Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon, True, an export file is peculiar to Oracle. The difference between a commercial database and an open source one. IBM and MicroSludge do the same. The functional purpose though is the same. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 7:44 AM Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: pg_dump equals export in Oracle. Actually pg_dump all = export full=y. It's just a syntax difference. And if you have a full export all you need to to recreate the database is create the system tablespace. And yes it is easy with Oracle, if you keep it simple. WRONG!!! --- From Oracle9i Database Utilities Part No. A90192-01 page 1-2: An Export file is an Oracle binary-format dump file that is typically located on disk or tape. The dump files can be transferred using FTP or physically transported (in Before Using Export the case of tape) to a different site. The files can then be used with the Import utility to transfer data between databases that are on systems not connected through a network. The files can also be used as backups in addition to normal backup procedures. Export dump files can only be read by the Oracle Import utility. The version of the Import utility cannot be earlier than the version of the Export utility used to create the dump file. --- The Export file is not equal to pg_dump's output simply because pg_dump's output is an actual plain text sql script that you can edit with a plain text editor (i.e. vi), or simply run in a different SQL based database. Export dump files are binary and are proprietary only to Oracle (i.e. no other database understands it unless you convert it first with some automagic third-party utility). -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Why should the default be scalable? Please tell me, how does Oracle know how many CPU, Memory, the type of IO system, transaction volume and whether it's OLTP or DSS, on and on... Every database application is different. Scalability means different things to different database environments. And editing init.ora is not how you achive scalability. Some of the tuning solution might come down to change a init parameter but most of them aren't. Richard Ji -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 12:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Quoting Richard Ji [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I wonder how scalable PostGreSQL is by default using default configs? I know Oracle in it's default configuration ain't scalable. Funny cause I know certain companies use Oracle thinking this is the solution to their database scalability problem. Only to be surprised when the DB stops working and then finding out later that the init.ora file needs to be edited for scalability. Oracle does not scale itself. It needs to be configured to scale. Why isn't Oracle scalable by default? -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
you really want to go there? compare MS SQL's backup recovery training to Oracle's. MS: 1 day of the 5 day intro admin class Oracle: more than a day of the 5 day 9i Admin II class - and you have 5 days in Admin I before that used to be worse - was a separate 3 day course in Oracle land. of course M$ can't take the credit for that - they didn't design that RDBMS. got it from Sybase ;) -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I agree that HSql is not meant to compete with Oracle or Postgresql. But then is Postgresql meant to compete with Oracle? I don't think so. My point of bring HSql in is to show that you aren't comparing the samething. It would make more sense say to compare the diffculty of backup/recovery between Oracle, DB2, MS SQL, because these databases are in the same playing field. Richard Ji -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi I just posted that as reply to your question about hsql (what is it ?). But you're right here, it is not very scalable and also not meant to compete with Oracle or PostgreSQL. Enjoy your day, Stefan Jahnke Consultant BOV Aktiengesellschaft Voice: +49 201 - 4513-298 Fax: +49 201 - 4513-149 mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please remove nospam to contact me via email. visit our website: http://www.bov.de subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.bov.de/presse/newsletter.asp Sicherheitsluecken mit IT-Security-Konzepten von BOV effizient schliessen! Weitere Informationen unter +49 201/45 13-240 oder E-Mail an mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen ausschliessen. As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments given above. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Februar 2003 16:54 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it Quoting Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Lyndon hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database server. Not suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're looking for an SQL database to embed into your Java app. I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is not scalable means I'd rather use Access. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: STEVE OLLIG INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San
Re:RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Richard, In theory, yes it can. Would I want to push a postgresql database that hard, maybe not. But I will agree with Lyndon, it is a very nice open source db. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Richard Ji [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 8:43 AM Well no. Since you are comparing Postgresql with Oracle, why can't I compare it with HSql or any other database for that matter. And is postgresql scalable compare to Oracle? Can it handle my Terabyte database? -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Quoting Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Lyndon hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database server. Not suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're looking for an SQL database to embed into your Java app. I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is not scalable means I'd rather use Access. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon, True, an export file is peculiar to Oracle. The difference between a commercial database and an open source one. IBM and MicroSludge do the same. The functional purpose though is the same. Question: Why a binary file? More efficient? I find the plain text output more useful and easy to store. Recovery is easier as well, just cut and past the relevant lines of script and run it. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Geez, I think we are getting further and further from the original topic now. Let's stop or start a new thread. So are you saying MS's got a better backup/recovery than Oracle because it only requires one day of training, or something else? Sorry I missed your point. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you really want to go there? compare MS SQL's backup recovery training to Oracle's. MS: 1 day of the 5 day intro admin class Oracle: more than a day of the 5 day 9i Admin II class - and you have 5 days in Admin I before that used to be worse - was a separate 3 day course in Oracle land. of course M$ can't take the credit for that - they didn't design that RDBMS. got it from Sybase ;) -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I agree that HSql is not meant to compete with Oracle or Postgresql. But then is Postgresql meant to compete with Oracle? I don't think so. My point of bring HSql in is to show that you aren't comparing the samething. It would make more sense say to compare the diffculty of backup/recovery between Oracle, DB2, MS SQL, because these databases are in the same playing field. Richard Ji -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi I just posted that as reply to your question about hsql (what is it ?). But you're right here, it is not very scalable and also not meant to compete with Oracle or PostgreSQL. Enjoy your day, Stefan Jahnke Consultant BOV Aktiengesellschaft Voice: +49 201 - 4513-298 Fax: +49 201 - 4513-149 mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please remove nospam to contact me via email. visit our website: http://www.bov.de subscribe to our newsletter: http://www.bov.de/presse/newsletter.asp Sicherheitsluecken mit IT-Security-Konzepten von BOV effizient schliessen! Weitere Informationen unter +49 201/45 13-240 oder E-Mail an mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. Wie Sie wissen, koennen ueber das Internet versandte E-Mails leicht unter fremden Namen erstellt oder manipuliert werden. Aus diesem Grunde bitten wir um Verstaendnis dafuer, dass wir zu Ihrem und unserem Schutz die rechtliche Verbindlichkeit der vorstehenden Erklaerungen und Aeusserungen ausschliessen. As you are probably aware, e-mails sent via the Internet can easily be copied or manipulated by third parties. For this reason we would ask for your understanding that, for your own protection and ours, we must decline all legal responsibility for the validity of the statements and comments given above. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Februar 2003 16:54 An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Betreff: Re: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it Quoting Stefan Jahnke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Lyndon hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database server. Not suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're looking for an SQL database to embed into your Java app. I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is not scalable means I'd rather use Access. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stefan Jahnke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru
RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting Richard Ji [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why should the default be scalable? Please tell me, how does Oracle know how many CPU, Memory, the type of IO system, transaction volume and whether it's OLTP or DSS, on and on... Every database application is different. Scalability means different things to different database environments. And editing init.ora is not how you achive scalability. Some of the tuning solution might come down to change a init parameter but most of them aren't. I got this from the idea from Why should default OS installs be secure? Most Linux and even MS are making their OS more secure by default right after a fresh install. Why can't Databases be like that (more scalable)? Can't it be more intelligent? Can't it figure out on it's own how many cpu and how much memory it runs on? Can't it figure out on it's own that a temp tablespace for sorting is being used all the time while there is a 1GB of free extra memory available for sorting and that it should increase sort memeory space dynamically? Database tuning should be made more automatic - somewhat like Oracle's locally managed tablespace feature. Perhaps this is the way databases should go - intelligent self-tuning. It will be hard to accomplish but is possible. Hopefully, we will get there (slowly) one day. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon, Beacuse it's proprietary. Any dunce can create a flat ascii text file, which probably accounts for the wide audience it gets. But it takes a PHD to read a binary one. BTW: IBM and M$'s dump files are binary as well. Also, Oracle's default installation does scale, although not as well as it should. And to boot that's the reason your boss pays you. Look at as job justification. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 10:34 AM Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon, True, an export file is peculiar to Oracle. The difference between a commercial database and an open source one. IBM and MicroSludge do the same. The functional purpose though is the same. Question: Why a binary file? More efficient? I find the plain text output more useful and easy to store. Recovery is easier as well, just cut and past the relevant lines of script and run it. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Beacuse it's proprietary. Any dunce can create a flat ascii text file, which probably accounts for the wide audience it gets. But it takes a PHD to read a binary one. BTW: IBM and M$'s dump files are binary as well. Also, Oracle's default installation does scale, although not as well as it should. And to boot that's the reason your boss pays you. Look at as job justification. Vendor Lock-in. I hate it when default installs of Oracle complains it does not have enough shared pool after about 30 connections and a small 10,000 entry database with no pl/sql stored procedures. I then have to go around fixing everyone's init.ora because none has a clue why Oracle would complain about not having enough memeory when the machine it runs on has 2GB of memory - and it's not even my job to do this tweaking (it's someone else who went to Oracle class for $$$ company paid and still does not know), it just so happens I know how to fix it that's why I get called to fix it. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon, I take it from your reply that 1) your not the primary DBA and 2) everyone is using Personal Oracle or Standard edition on their desktop. Sounds like one heck of a mess. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 12:03 PM Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Beacuse it's proprietary. Any dunce can create a flat ascii text file, which probably accounts for the wide audience it gets. But it takes a PHD to read a binary one. BTW: IBM and M$'s dump files are binary as well. Also, Oracle's default installation does scale, although not as well as it should. And to boot that's the reason your boss pays you. Look at as job justification. Vendor Lock-in. I hate it when default installs of Oracle complains it does not have enough shared pool after about 30 connections and a small 10,000 entry database with no pl/sql stored procedures. I then have to go around fixing everyone's init.ora because none has a clue why Oracle would complain about not having enough memeory when the machine it runs on has 2GB of memory - and it's not even my job to do this tweaking (it's someone else who went to Oracle class for $$$ company paid and still does not know), it just so happens I know how to fix it that's why I get called to fix it. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Title: RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it Two words - Speed and Performance. -Original Message- From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon, True, an export file is peculiar to Oracle. The difference between a commercial database and an open source one. IBM and MicroSludge do the same. The functional purpose though is the same. Question: Why a binary file? More efficient? I find the plain text output more useful and easy to store. Recovery is easier as well, just cut and past the relevant lines of script and run it. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting Nick Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Two words - Speed and Performance. gotcha. Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon, I take it from your reply that 1) your not the primary DBA and I work with Oracle and PostGreSQL, but not as a DBA. I'm a wannabe DBA but will most probably never be a real DBA since: 1) I do not have B.Sc. in Comp. Sci. 2) I got into Hi-Tech right after the bubble burst. But I do admin(solely me and me alone) exactly one PostGreSQL development soon to be a production database so does that make me a DBA? 2) everyone is using Personal Oracle or Standard edition on their desktop. Sounds like one heck of a mess. More like people are developing software on a database running on development machines. Look at the number of [Re]'s on the subject line of this email!!! -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Title: RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon, I take it from your reply that 1) your not the primary DBA and I work with Oracle and PostGreSQL, but not as a DBA. I'm a wannabe DBA but will most probably never be a real DBA since: 1) I do not have B.Sc. in Comp. Sci. Ha! Just stop putting your education on your resume. 2) I got into Hi-Tech right after the bubble burst. ? What's that to do with becoming a DBA? But I do admin(solely me and me alone) exactly one PostGreSQL development soon to be a production database so does that make me a DBA? If you say so. Seriously. 2) everyone is using Personal Oracle or Standard edition on their desktop. Sounds like one heck of a mess. More like people are developing software on a database running on development machines. The best advice I can give, in this case: develop a set of db create scripts, make sure they are bullet-proof and that configurations are automated, and release them to the developer public. Then you won't have to fix all of the teeny-weenie db's on them dev boxes. Look at the number of [Re]'s on the subject line of this email!!! Re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-spect, gotta gettabit...
RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon To me, being a DBA is more an attitude than an HR position. Study what DBAs do and that will carry you forward. I don't see what having a BSCS has to do with it. And I speak as someone who has done a lot of computer science at the graduate level. During the dark days, prepare, so when the industry picks up again, you are in a position to ride the surging wave. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:38 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon, I take it from your reply that 1) your not the primary DBA and I work with Oracle and PostGreSQL, but not as a DBA. I'm a wannabe DBA but will most probably never be a real DBA since: 1) I do not have B.Sc. in Comp. Sci. 2) I got into Hi-Tech right after the bubble burst. But I do admin(solely me and me alone) exactly one PostGreSQL development soon to be a production database so does that make me a DBA? 2) everyone is using Personal Oracle or Standard edition on their desktop. Sounds like one heck of a mess. More like people are developing software on a database running on development machines. Look at the number of [Re]'s on the subject line of this email!!! -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting Jeremy Pulcifer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I take it from your reply that 1) your not the primary DBA and I work with Oracle and PostGreSQL, but not as a DBA. I'm a wannabe DBA but will most probably never be a real DBA since: 1) I do not have B.Sc. in Comp. Sci. Ha! Just stop putting your education on your resume. Good idea. Maybe I should just stop putting anything on my resume, maybe that will catch some attention. 2) I got into Hi-Tech right after the bubble burst. ? What's that to do with becoming a DBA? Too many other experienced DBA's running around jobless. But I do admin(solely me and me alone) exactly one PostGreSQL development soon to be a production database so does that make me a DBA? If you say so. Seriously. Self-proclaimed I am my own DBA!! -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Quoting DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon To me, being a DBA is more an attitude than an HR position. Study what DBAs do and that will carry you forward. I don't see what having a BSCS has to do with it. And I speak as someone who has done a lot of computer science at the graduate level. During the dark days, prepare, so when the industry picks up again, you are in a position to ride the surging wave. B.Sc. more from the standpoint of getting your foot into that door. I don't think it actually helps you get the job done, only that it will get you the job in the first place. Even junior position DBA require a B.Sc. (those that I've read). As far as the wave is concerned, it's getting too crowded at the crest. Too many people wannbea DBA. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it
Title: RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Quoting DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon To me, being a DBA is more an attitude than an HR position. Study what DBAs do and that will carry you forward. I don't see what having a BSCS has to do with it. And I speak as someone who has done a lot of computer science at the graduate level. During the dark days, prepare, so when the industry picks up again, you are in a position to ride the surging wave. B.Sc. more from the standpoint of getting your foot into that door. I don't think it actually helps you get the job done, only that it will get you the job in the first place. Even junior position DBA require a B.Sc. (those that I've read). Bollocks. Don't believe it. How many job descriptions are actually written by the hiring managers? (hint: not many, if any) I've not more than a half-dozen college credits to my name. Never have gone more than a coupla weeks without a job since I quit trying to pretend a college education was the end-all/be-all of education. Rarely if ever even comes up in the hiring process. Several times it's actually impressed interviewers when I tell them I'm self-educated. As far as the wave is concerned, it's getting too crowded at the crest. Too many people wannbea DBA. But only a few of those are any good at it. Those that are good at it will stick; B of Sci or not.
RMAN: I don't trust it
As a longtime Oracle DBA who has used many products, including RMAN, I find myself guilty of a paradoxical mistrust of RMAN, dating back from the time when Oracle has tried several products, including integration with Legato and other hardware/software backup vendors, without a consistent direction. In the little I've used RMAN, it seems quite complex and kludgy. Even the nomenclature and commands used by Oracle within the product are a challenge to learn. While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic and predictable recovery scenarios, true recovery situations are never so neat and clean. This is not an advertisement for any particular product, but we've had great success in my shop with a product called SQL*Backtrack from BMC. I've also heard that Veritas makes a good product, but I've not used it. From what I've seen of RMAN, at least so far, I feel far more confident with the home-cooked scripts I've been using for years. Any comments, or other interesting experiences? Perhaps we can do a list poll of favorite/preferred backup software?
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon, Unfortunately Oracle is probably focused more on dealing with large databases with complicated uptime requirements. I can just imagine how long it would take to push 1TB through gzip. Doing a daily backup would require multiple CPU's just to deal with the fact that it would still be zipping up the previous day. There comes a time when an incremental backup makes really good sense. Perhaps we'll have to stick with the RMAN concept until someone tweaks gzip a little further? Oh, and in response to your final comment... I don't think easy was (nor should have been) Oracle's number one priority when designing rman. Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] fu.ca cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: RMAN: I don't trust it [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 11/02/2003 10:03 Please respond to ORACLE-L If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail or by telephone on (61 3) 9612-6999. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet e-mail for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Transurban City Link Ltd shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mark Richard INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN: I don't trust it
I dumped my home grown scripts pretty soon after Oracle released RMAN (after they fixed a number of early defects of course) and have never looked back. Although the RMAN scripting language is yet another language to learn it is well worth the effort. It allows you to backup an entire database with a surprisingly small number of commands (in the order to 5 I think), I doubt a home grown script using shell script or perl could be as simple. Also you will never be able to match the performance of RMAN with a home grown script simply because you do not have access to the data that RMAN has. Try doing incremental backups or optimising the backup of a data file that hasn't been used. A home grown script will backup entire data files whether used or not, while RMAN will only record the existence of the file, and rebuild the empty file during recovery. These type of optimisation greatly reduce your mean time to recovery. Recovery is also a lot simpler because RMAN does most of the work for you. I've never had any problems with RMAN locating the correct backup of various files. And because it is simpler, less experienced DBAs (DBA's new to an organisation or more junior DBAs) can have a better chance of recovering a database correctly - if the case should present itself. Having said all thatit is worth keeping yourself up to date with the latest RMAN defectsit is only software after all. :-) Cheers, Craig. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, 11 February 2003 11:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lyndon, Unfortunately Oracle is probably focused more on dealing with large databases with complicated uptime requirements. I can just imagine how long it would take to push 1TB through gzip. Doing a daily backup would require multiple CPU's just to deal with the fact that it would still be zipping up the previous day. There comes a time when an incremental backup makes really good sense. Perhaps we'll have to stick with the RMAN concept until someone tweaks gzip a little further? Oh, and in response to your final comment... I don't think easy was (nor should have been) Oracle's number one priority when designing rman. Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] fu.ca cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: RMAN: I don't trust it [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 11/02/2003 10:03 Please respond to ORACLE-L If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail or by telephone on (61 3) 9612-6999. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet e-mail for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Transurban City Link Ltd shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mark Richard INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
RE: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon, You are comparing Apple with Orange here. I can backup my hsql database which is stored in a text file with: cp my_db my_db.backup using OS command only. :) Richard Ji -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 6:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
On Monday 10 February 2003 07:23 pm, Richard Ji wrote: Lyndon, You are comparing Apple with Orange here. I can backup my hsql database which is stored in a text file with: What's hsql ? cp my_db my_db.backup I do not undertstand this command. Oracle database files are in binary format. Simply copying does not turn it into text sql scripts. Could you please explain further? Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
