RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message We have been using SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery forabout 6 years now. We are being pressured to start using RMAN because it is free. Makes sense but I am wondering about reliability, complexity, learning curve, etc... Has anyone had experience with both products or anyone new to RMAN that can give me an idea of what to expect? Thanks! Ron If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, any use, distribution or copying of the message is prohibited. Please let me know immediately by return e-mail if you have received this message by mistake, then delete the e-mail message. Thank you.
RE: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message Ron: I don't know SQL Backtrack, but two things popped into my head as I read your message. One,RMAN does not have a media interface layer. It depends on a utility such as Legato (also currently included with Oracle) or Netbackup or OmniBack. Two,EMC just bought Legato. This tool may not be included in futurereleases. Cheers, Mike -Original Message-From: Smith, Ron L. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:59 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RMAN SQL Backtrack We have been using SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery forabout 6 years now. We are being pressured to start using RMAN because it is free. Makes sense but I am wondering about reliability, complexity, learning curve, etc... Has anyone had experience with both products or anyone new to RMAN that can give me an idea of what to expect? Thanks!
RE: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message HI, We are a backtrack shop also and we are happy with it. We have not yet pressure to go to rman. If you switch to rman, I'm interested in knowing the migration effort. Stephane Paquette Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Smith, Ron L.Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:59 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RMAN SQL Backtrack We have been using SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery forabout 6 years now. We are being pressured to start using RMAN because it is free. Makes sense but I am wondering about reliability, complexity, learning curve, etc... Has anyone had experience with both products or anyone new to RMAN that can give me an idea of what to expect? Thanks! Ron If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, any use, distribution or copying of the message is prohibited. Please let me know immediately by return e-mail if you have received this message by mistake, then delete the e-mail message. Thank you.
RE: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message
I
don't haveany experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some
experience
with
RMAN. Here are my comments:
a)
RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by
operations
and there no surprises. In order to
rely on those scripts, one needs to test them, especially
the recovery
part.
b)
RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup, Tivoli,
Legato or
SyncSort can be rather expensive.
RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates a
backup software contacted through
the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl) to
do its writing. To get the
"libobk.so" from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally
have to write a check. That means
that RMAN is NOT free.
c)
Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert Freeman,
it is no
longer so. You can learn how to
configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book
to learn RMAN from. It's not very
hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices
for a good general
understanding.
d)
Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest drawback
is the fact that
it doesn't do any coordination with
the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can
happily
declare backup obsolete in RMAN and
Legato will not know anything about it and vice versa.
You can even delete backup in Legato
and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about it.
On the other hand, RMAN, in
contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into
the
backup mode, thus generating
floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that
have never been used ("behind
the watermark blocks"), which is great if you have a fresh
new
datafile which was added to
the tablespace just in case something might run out of
space.
e) Personnel. Despite the certification process,
it is not always easy to find a trained personnel
which knows how to use it and
how to recover the database. I consider the ability to
recover
the database a basis for
someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised
how
many people which claim that
title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number
knows how to use
RMAN.
f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary
Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling,
Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup Nanda,
Kirti Deshpandeand Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle List
certification
process. I would trust
that onemore then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who I
might have forgotten.
Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From: Smith, Ron L.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:59
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RMAN
SQL Backtrack
We have been using
SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery forabout 6 years now. We are
being pressured to start using RMAN because it is free. Makes sense but
I am wondering about reliability, complexity, learning curve,
etc...
Has anyone had
experience with both products or anyone new to RMAN that can give me an idea
of what to expect?
Thanks!
Ron
If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, any use, distribution or copying of the message is prohibited.
Please let me know immediately by return e-mail if you have received this
message by mistake, then delete the e-mail message. Thank
you.
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message
Wow! Heady!!
It's mighty nice of you to include my name in this
illustrious list, Mladen; but I don't considermyself tobe in the
same league :)Better yet, count yourselfin there.
Talking about the business at hand - you are
absolutely right; one of the "myths" (of the several) is that RMAN is free. It
is, as long as you don't put it on tape. Once you bring tape to the picture, you
are talking money, sometimes big money (as in Tivoli), sometimes small (as in
BrightStor). However, the solution to usedisk could still be relevant and
applicable in some cases, especially in small companies.
Besides the Freeman book, I would also suggest
another one - Oracle RMAN Pocket Reference by Darl Kuhn and Scott Schulze, ISBN
0-596-00233-5. It predates the Freeman book and I learned my ropes from it. It's
a pocket reference; but it's truly one of those things where size belies the
content.
Learning curve could be formidable. Remember you
need to learn a new "language", and it is arcane. When youventure into
territories of tuning the tape buffers, etc, the process could be quite
involved. I just finished setting up and tuning a RMAN setup for a 2 TB database
using IBM Tivoli Storage Manager agent and the details of the process using the
IBM Red Books was nightmarish!
Regards,
Arup Nanda
- Original Message -
From:
Gogala, Mladen
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:39
AM
Subject: RE: RMAN SQL
Backtrack
I
don't haveany experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some
experience
with
RMAN. Here are my comments:
a)
RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by
operations
and there no surprises. In order
to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them,
especially
the recovery
part.
b)
RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup, Tivoli,
Legato or
SyncSort can be rather expensive.
RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates a
backup software contacted through
the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl)
to
do its writing. To get the
"libobk.so" from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally
have to write a check. That means
that RMAN is NOT free.
c)
Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert Freeman,
it is no
longer so. You can learn how to
configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book
to learn RMAN from. It's not very
hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices
for a good general
understanding.
d)
Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest drawback
is the fact that
it doesn't do any coordination
with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can
happily
declare backup obsolete in RMAN
and Legato will not know anything about it and vice versa.
You can even delete backup in
Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about
it.
On the other hand, RMAN, in
contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into
the
backup mode, thus generating
floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that
have never been used
("behind the watermark blocks"), which is great if you have a fresh
new
datafile which was added to
the tablespace just in case something might run out of
space.
e) Personnel. Despite the certification
process, it is not always easy to find a trained personnel
which knows how to use it
and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to
recover
the database a basis for
someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised
how
many people which claim that
title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number
knows how to use
RMAN.
f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary
Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling,
Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup Nanda,
Kirti Deshpandeand Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle
List certification
process. I would trust
that onemore then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who I
might have forgotten.
Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203)
459-6855 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From: Smith, Ron L.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:59
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RMAN SQL Backtrack
We have been
using SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery forabout 6 years
now. We are being pressured to start using RMAN because it is
free. Makes sense but I am wondering about reliability, complexity,
learning curve, etc...
Has anyone had
experience with both products or anyone new to RMAN that can give me an idea
of what to expect?
Thanks!
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message
If you have to work on the cheap, you can put the
backups to tape and then copy them to tape using the OS backup software.
It isn't elegant, but it works!
Ruth
- Original Message -
From:
Arup Nanda
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 1:24
PM
Subject: Re: RMAN SQL
Backtrack
Wow! Heady!!
It's mighty nice of you to include my name in
this illustrious list, Mladen; but I don't considermyself tobe in
the same league :)Better yet, count yourselfin there.
Talking about the business at hand - you are
absolutely right; one of the "myths" (of the several) is that RMAN is free. It
is, as long as you don't put it on tape. Once you bring tape to the picture,
you are talking money, sometimes big money (as in Tivoli), sometimes small (as
in BrightStor). However, the solution to usedisk could still be relevant and
applicable in some cases, especially in small companies.
Besides the Freeman book, I would also suggest
another one - Oracle RMAN Pocket Reference by Darl Kuhn and Scott Schulze,
ISBN 0-596-00233-5. It predates the Freeman book and I learned my ropes from
it. It's a pocket reference; but it's truly one of those things where size
belies the content.
Learning curve could be formidable. Remember you
need to learn a new "language", and it is arcane. When youventure into
territories of tuning the tape buffers, etc, the process could be quite
involved. I just finished setting up and tuning a RMAN setup for a 2 TB
database using IBM Tivoli Storage Manager agent and the details of the process
using the IBM Red Books was nightmarish!
Regards,
Arup Nanda
- Original Message -
From:
Gogala, Mladen
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:39
AM
Subject: RE: RMAN SQL
Backtrack
I
don't haveany experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some
experience
with RMAN. Here are my
comments:
a)
RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by
operations
and there no surprises. In order
to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them,
especially
the recovery
part.
b)
RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup,
Tivoli, Legato or
SyncSort can be rather
expensive. RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates
a
backup software contacted
through the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl)
to
do its writing. To get the
"libobk.so" from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally
have to write a check. That
means that RMAN is NOT free.
c)
Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert
Freeman, it is no
longer so. You can learn how to
configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book
to learn RMAN from. It's not
very hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices
for a good general
understanding.
d)
Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest
drawback is the fact that
it doesn't do any coordination
with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can
happily
declare backup obsolete in RMAN
and Legato will not know anything about it and vice
versa.
You can even delete backup in
Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about
it.
On the other hand, RMAN,
in contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into
the
backup mode, thus
generating floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that
have never been used
("behind the watermark blocks"), which is great if you have a fresh
new
datafile which was added
to the tablespace just in case something might run out of
space.
e) Personnel. Despite the certification
process, it is not always easy to find a trained
personnel
which knows how to use it
and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to
recover
the database a basis for
someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised
how
many people which claim
that title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number
knows how to use
RMAN.
f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary
Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling,
Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup
Nanda, Kirti Deshpandeand Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle
List certification
process. I would trust
that onemore then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who
I might have forgotten.
Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203)
459-6855 Email:[EMAIL P
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
I'll second what Ruth says about backup to disk then use the OS tape routine to archive off of the diaks. I would keep at least 2 disk backups available on disk. It is faster to perform a restore from a disk based backup than from a sequential tape. Restore on datafile from RMAN - 20 min. mount the OS tapes and search for the backed up datafile - all day. Now if I can get the sysadmin to only backup the RMAN files daily rather than a complete disk image each night. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/16/03 02:19PM MessageIf you have to work on the cheap, you can put the backups to tape and then copy them to tape using the OS backup software. It isn't elegant, but it works! Ruth - Original Message - From: Arup Nanda To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 1:24 PM Subject: Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack Wow! Heady!! It's mighty nice of you to include my name in this illustrious list, Mladen; but I don't consider myself to be in the same league :) Better yet, count yourself in there. Talking about the business at hand - you are absolutely right; one of the myths (of the several) is that RMAN is free. It is, as long as you don't put it on tape. Once you bring tape to the picture, you are talking money, sometimes big money (as in Tivoli), sometimes small (as in BrightStor). However, the solution to usedisk could still be relevant and applicable in some cases, especially in small companies. Besides the Freeman book, I would also suggest another one - Oracle RMAN Pocket Reference by Darl Kuhn and Scott Schulze, ISBN 0-596-00233-5. It predates the Freeman book and I learned my ropes from it. It's a pocket reference; but it's truly one of those things where size belies the content. Learning curve could be formidable. Remember you need to learn a new language, and it is arcane. When youventure into territories of tuning the tape buffers, etc, the process could be quite involved. I just finished setting up and tuning a RMAN setup for a 2 TB database using IBM Tivoli Storage Manager agent and the details of the process using the IBM Red Books was nightmarish! Regards, Arup Nanda - Original Message - From: Gogala, Mladen To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:39 AM Subject: RE: RMAN SQL Backtrack I don't have any experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some experience with RMAN. Here are my comments: a) RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by operations and there no surprises. In order to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them, especially the recovery part. b) RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup, Tivoli, Legato or SyncSort can be rather expensive. RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates a backup software contacted through the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl) to do its writing. To get the libobk.so from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally have to write a check. That means that RMAN is NOT free. c) Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert Freeman, it is no longer so. You can learn how to configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book to learn RMAN from. It's not very hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices for a good general understanding. d) Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest drawback is the fact that it doesn't do any coordination with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can happily declare backup obsolete in RMAN and Legato will not know anything about it and vice versa. You can even delete backup in Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about it. On the other hand, RMAN, in contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into the backup mode, thus generating floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that have never been used (behind the watermark blocks), which is great if you have a fresh new datafile which was added to the tablespace just in case something might run out of space. e) Personnel. Despite the certification process, it is not always easy to find a trained personnel which knows how to use it and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to recover the database a basis for someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised how many people which claim that title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number knows how to use RMAN. f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling, Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup Nanda, Kirti Deshpande and Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle List certification process. I
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message
why not backup to disk and then transfer to tape
.
-ak
- Original Message -
From:
Arup Nanda
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:24
AM
Subject: Re: RMAN SQL
Backtrack
Wow! Heady!!
It's mighty nice of you to include my name in
this illustrious list, Mladen; but I don't considermyself tobe in
the same league :)Better yet, count yourselfin there.
Talking about the business at hand - you are
absolutely right; one of the "myths" (of the several) is that RMAN is free. It
is, as long as you don't put it on tape. Once you bring tape to the picture,
you are talking money, sometimes big money (as in Tivoli), sometimes small (as
in BrightStor). However, the solution to usedisk could still be relevant and
applicable in some cases, especially in small companies.
Besides the Freeman book, I would also suggest
another one - Oracle RMAN Pocket Reference by Darl Kuhn and Scott Schulze,
ISBN 0-596-00233-5. It predates the Freeman book and I learned my ropes from
it. It's a pocket reference; but it's truly one of those things where size
belies the content.
Learning curve could be formidable. Remember you
need to learn a new "language", and it is arcane. When youventure into
territories of tuning the tape buffers, etc, the process could be quite
involved. I just finished setting up and tuning a RMAN setup for a 2 TB
database using IBM Tivoli Storage Manager agent and the details of the process
using the IBM Red Books was nightmarish!
Regards,
Arup Nanda
- Original Message -
From:
Gogala, Mladen
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:39
AM
Subject: RE: RMAN SQL
Backtrack
I
don't haveany experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some
experience
with RMAN. Here are my
comments:
a)
RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by
operations
and there no surprises. In order
to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them,
especially
the recovery
part.
b)
RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup,
Tivoli, Legato or
SyncSort can be rather
expensive. RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates
a
backup software contacted
through the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl)
to
do its writing. To get the
"libobk.so" from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally
have to write a check. That
means that RMAN is NOT free.
c)
Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert
Freeman, it is no
longer so. You can learn how to
configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book
to learn RMAN from. It's not
very hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices
for a good general
understanding.
d)
Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest
drawback is the fact that
it doesn't do any coordination
with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can
happily
declare backup obsolete in RMAN
and Legato will not know anything about it and vice
versa.
You can even delete backup in
Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about
it.
On the other hand, RMAN,
in contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into
the
backup mode, thus
generating floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that
have never been used
("behind the watermark blocks"), which is great if you have a fresh
new
datafile which was added
to the tablespace just in case something might run out of
space.
e) Personnel. Despite the certification
process, it is not always easy to find a trained
personnel
which knows how to use it
and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to
recover
the database a basis for
someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised
how
many people which claim
that title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number
knows how to use
RMAN.
f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary
Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling,
Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup
Nanda, Kirti Deshpandeand Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle
List certification
process. I would trust
that onemore then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who
I might have forgotten.
Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203)
459-6855 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From: Smith, Ron L.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTEC
RE: RMAN SQL Backtrack
I think Robert Freeman's book is essential. Oracle RMAN Pocket Reference at $13 U.S. is an easy decision. I started before Robert's book was published and the book which really helped me get off the ground is Oracle Backup Recovery 101. It is about 1/2 RMAN, and has some really simple step-by-step tutorials. Simple enough even I could understand. Robert has tutorials as well, but I haven't performed those. So if you get stuck getting the idea behind RMAN, consider this book. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Wow! Heady!! It's mighty nice of you to include my name in this illustrious list, Mladen; but I don't consider myself to be in the same league :) Better yet, count yourself in there. Talking about the business at hand - you are absolutely right; one of the myths (of the several) is that RMAN is free. It is, as long as you don't put it on tape. Once you bring tape to the picture, you are talking money, sometimes big money (as in Tivoli), sometimes small (as in BrightStor). However, the solution to usedisk could still be relevant and applicable in some cases, especially in small companies. Besides the Freeman book, I would also suggest another one - Oracle RMAN Pocket Reference by Darl Kuhn and Scott Schulze, ISBN 0-596-00233-5. It predates the Freeman book and I learned my ropes from it. It's a pocket reference; but it's truly one of those things where size belies the content. Learning curve could be formidable. Remember you need to learn a new language, and it is arcane. When youventure into territories of tuning the tape buffers, etc, the process could be quite involved. I just finished setting up and tuning a RMAN setup for a 2 TB database using IBM Tivoli Storage Manager agent and the details of the process using the IBM Red Books was nightmarish! Regards, Arup Nanda - Original Message - To: Multiple mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:39 AM I don't have any experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some experience with RMAN. Here are my comments: a) RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by operations and there no surprises. In order to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them, especially the recovery part. b) RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup, Tivoli, Legato or SyncSort can be rather expensive. RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates a backup software contacted through the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl) to do its writing. To get the libobk.so from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally have to write a check. That means that RMAN is NOT free. c) Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert Freeman, it is no longer so. You can learn how to configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book to learn RMAN from. It's not very hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices for a good general understanding. d) Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest drawback is the fact that it doesn't do any coordination with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can happily declare backup obsolete in RMAN and Legato will not know anything about it and vice versa. You can even delete backup in Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about it. On the other hand, RMAN, in contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into the backup mode, thus generating floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that have never been used (behind the watermark blocks), which is great if you have a fresh new datafile which was added to the tablespace just in case something might run out of space. e) Personnel. Despite the certification process, it is not always easy to find a trained personnel which knows how to use it and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to recover the database a basis for someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised how many people which claim that title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number knows how to use RMAN. f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling, Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup Nanda, Kirti Deshpande and Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle List certification process. I would trust that one more then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who I might have forgotten. Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203) 459-6855 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L We have been using SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery for about 6 years now. We
RE: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Wow! Mladen, thanks for listing my name in your list. As Arup mentioned, you forgot yourself. I would also suggest Dan Fink, Tim Gorman, and Dr. Mogens! Gaja is moving the other (dark) side, so I won't mind excluding him :) When it comes to RMAN, I am not even in the rookie stage. We bought a few copies of RF's book. But mine has now found its place under my desk! The Damagement is not yet willing to commit any time and resources to play with RMAN and without the Tivoli API, we can not do much. Although RMAN is free and the MML API may not cost as much, but when you have a merged Company like ours (VERIZON=GTE + BellAtlantic), we have our own 'sand boxes' and playing fields. Old BA stuff still uses SQL*BT while we, the fGTE DBAs want to move to RMAN But may be we all leave that decision to Amdocs, as they might get our IT business pretty soon, per some official rumors. Till then we will continue to use good old, and aged, hot backup scripts to backup databases of all shapes and sizes (from 1G to over 500G) Cheers! - Kirti --- Gogala, Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have any experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some experience with RMAN. Here are my comments: a) RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by operations and there no surprises. In order to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them, especially the recovery part. b) RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup, Tivoli, Legato or SyncSort can be rather expensive. RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates a backup software contacted through the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl) to do its writing. To get the libobk.so from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally have to write a check. That means that RMAN is NOT free. c) Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert Freeman, it is no longer so. You can learn how to configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book to learn RMAN from. It's not very hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices for a good general understanding. d) Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest drawback is the fact that it doesn't do any coordination with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can happily declare backup obsolete in RMAN and Legato will not know anything about it and vice versa. You can even delete backup in Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about it. On the other hand, RMAN, in contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into the backup mode, thus generating floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that have never been used (behind the watermark blocks), which is great if you have a fresh new datafile which was added to the tablespace just in case something might run out of space. e) Personnel. Despite the certification process, it is not always easy to find a trained personnel which knows how to use it and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to recover the database a basis for someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised how many people which claim that title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number knows how to use RMAN. f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling, Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup Nanda, Kirti Deshpande and Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle List certification process. I would trust that one more then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who I might have forgotten. Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203) 459-6855 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Kirti, Gaja is moving the other (dark) side??? Elaboration, please. Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 5:29 PM Wow! Mladen, thanks for listing my name in your list. As Arup mentioned, you forgot yourself. I would also suggest Dan Fink, Tim Gorman, and Dr. Mogens! Gaja is moving the other (dark) side, so I won't mind excluding him :) When it comes to RMAN, I am not even in the rookie stage. We bought a few copies of RF's book. But mine has now found its place under my desk! The Damagement is not yet willing to commit any time and resources to play with RMAN and without the Tivoli API, we can not do much. Although RMAN is free and the MML API may not cost as much, but when you have a merged Company like ours (VERIZON=GTE + BellAtlantic), we have our own 'sand boxes' and playing fields. Old BA stuff still uses SQL*BT while we, the fGTE DBAs want to move to RMAN But may be we all leave that decision to Amdocs, as they might get our IT business pretty soon, per some official rumors. Till then we will continue to use good old, and aged, hot backup scripts to backup databases of all shapes and sizes (from 1G to over 500G) Cheers! - Kirti --- Gogala, Mladen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have any experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some experience with RMAN. Here are my comments: a) RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by operations and there no surprises. In order to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them, especially the recovery part. b) RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup, Tivoli, Legato or SyncSort can be rather expensive. RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates a backup software contacted through the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl) to do its writing. To get the libobk.so from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally have to write a check. That means that RMAN is NOT free. c) Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert Freeman, it is no longer so. You can learn how to configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book to learn RMAN from. It's not very hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices for a good general understanding. d) Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest drawback is the fact that it doesn't do any coordination with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can happily declare backup obsolete in RMAN and Legato will not know anything about it and vice versa. You can even delete backup in Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about it. On the other hand, RMAN, in contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into the backup mode, thus generating floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that have never been used (behind the watermark blocks), which is great if you have a fresh new datafile which was added to the tablespace just in case something might run out of space. e) Personnel. Despite the certification process, it is not always easy to find a trained personnel which knows how to use it and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to recover the database a basis for someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised how many people which claim that title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number knows how to use RMAN. f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling, Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup Nanda, Kirti Deshpande and Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle List certification process. I would trust that one more then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who I might have forgotten. Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203) 459-6855 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message
Mladen, one correction or comment. You don't need a
third party package if you are backing up to disk. Then it's straight
rman.
Ruth
- Original Message -
From:
Gogala, Mladen
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:39
AM
Subject: RE: RMAN SQL
Backtrack
I
don't haveany experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some
experience
with
RMAN. Here are my comments:
a)
RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by
operations
and there no surprises. In order
to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them,
especially
the recovery
part.
b)
RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup, Tivoli,
Legato or
SyncSort can be rather expensive.
RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates a
backup software contacted through
the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl)
to
do its writing. To get the
"libobk.so" from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally
have to write a check. That means
that RMAN is NOT free.
c)
Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert Freeman,
it is no
longer so. You can learn how to
configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book
to learn RMAN from. It's not very
hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices
for a good general
understanding.
d)
Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest drawback
is the fact that
it doesn't do any coordination
with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can
happily
declare backup obsolete in RMAN
and Legato will not know anything about it and vice versa.
You can even delete backup in
Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about
it.
On the other hand, RMAN, in
contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into
the
backup mode, thus generating
floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that
have never been used
("behind the watermark blocks"), which is great if you have a fresh
new
datafile which was added to
the tablespace just in case something might run out of
space.
e) Personnel. Despite the certification
process, it is not always easy to find a trained personnel
which knows how to use it
and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to
recover
the database a basis for
someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised
how
many people which claim that
title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number
knows how to use
RMAN.
f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary
Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling,
Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup Nanda,
Kirti Deshpandeand Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle
List certification
process. I would trust
that onemore then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who I
might have forgotten.
Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203)
459-6855 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From: Smith, Ron L.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:59
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RMAN SQL Backtrack
We have been
using SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery forabout 6 years
now. We are being pressured to start using RMAN because it is
free. Makes sense but I am wondering about reliability, complexity,
learning curve, etc...
Has anyone had
experience with both products or anyone new to RMAN that can give me an idea
of what to expect?
Thanks!
Ron
If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, any use, distribution or copying of the message is
prohibited. Please let me know immediately by return e-mail if you have
received this message by mistake, then delete the e-mail message. Thank
you.
RE: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Title: Message
Ruth,
that is correct but, generally speaking, backup to disk is rather awkward thing
to
do,
even without mentioning the fact that you need more disks for that and that
disks
are not free, either. Between thwe two of us, I don't
know a company doing backups to
the
disk.
Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From: Ruth Gramolini
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003
12:25 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Mladen, one correction or comment. You don't need
a third party package if you are backing up to disk. Then it's straight
rman.
Ruth
- Original Message -
From:
Gogala, Mladen
To: Multiple
recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:39
AM
Subject: RE: RMAN SQL
Backtrack
I
don't haveany experience with SQL*Backtrack and I do have some
experience
with RMAN. Here are my
comments:
a)
RMAN is reliable. Once you write the backup scripts, they are executed by
operations
and there no surprises. In order
to rely on those scripts, one needs to test them,
especially
the recovery
part.
b)
RMAN needs a 3rd party backup software to run. Things like OmniBackup,
Tivoli, Legato or
SyncSort can be rather
expensive. RMAN doesn't write to tapes itself. RMAN delegates
a
backup software contacted
through the routines from libobk.so (or libobk.dll or libobk.sl)
to
do its writing. To get the
"libobk.so" from you backup software vendor of choice, you generally
have to write a check. That
means that RMAN is NOT free.
c)
Before version 9, RMAN was arcane and hard to learn. Thanks to Robert
Freeman, it is no
longer so. You can learn how to
configure and use RMAN and you can find a decent book
to learn RMAN from. It's not
very hard and it's fairly logical. One reading of the books suffices
for a good general
understanding.
d)
Quality of the software: RMAN leaves a lot to be desired. Its biggest
drawback is the fact that
it doesn't do any coordination
with the underlying backup catalog. In other words, you can
happily
declare backup obsolete in RMAN
and Legato will not know anything about it and vice
versa.
You can even delete backup in
Legato and reuse the tape while RMAN knows nothing about
it.
On the other hand, RMAN,
in contrast to all other methods, does not put tablespaces into
the
backup mode, thus
generating floods of redo archives. RMAN doesn't backup data blocks that
have never been used
("behind the watermark blocks"), which is great if you have a fresh
new
datafile which was added
to the tablespace just in case something might run out of
space.
e) Personnel. Despite the certification
process, it is not always easy to find a trained
personnel
which knows how to use it
and how to recover the database. I consider the ability to
recover
the database a basis for
someone to call himself/herself a DBA. You would be surprised
how
many people which claim
that title do not know how to recover the database. Even smaller number
knows how to use
RMAN.
f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary
Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling,
Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup
Nanda, Kirti Deshpandeand Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle
List certification
process. I would trust
that onemore then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who
I might have forgotten.
Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203)
459-6855 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From: Smith, Ron L.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:59
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RMAN SQL Backtrack
We have been
using SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery forabout 6 years
now. We are being pressured to start using RMAN because it is
free. Makes sense but I am wondering about reliability, complexity,
learning curve, etc...
Has anyone had
experience with both products or anyone new to RMAN that can give me an
idea of what to expect?
Thanks!
Ron
If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail message, any use, distribution or copying of the message is
prohibited. Please let me know immediately by return e-mail if you have
received this message by mistake, then delete the e-mail message. Thank
you.
RE: RMAN SQL Backtrack
f) I would suggest Jared Still, Cary Millsap, Rachel Carmichael, Jonathan Lewis, Wolfgang Breitling, Steve Adams, Gaja V., Arup Nanda, Kirti Deshpande and Anjo Kolk to start the Oracle List certification process. I would trust that one more then the OCP. I apologize to anyone who I might have forgotten. Oracle list certification? Now there's an idea! :) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Well, he is part of Oracle 'chefs' now. Praising the food before they cooked it ;) - Kirti --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirti, Gaja is moving the other (dark) side??? Elaboration, please. Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 5:29 PM Wow! Mladen, thanks for listing my name in your list. As Arup mentioned, you forgot yourself. I would also suggest Dan Fink, Tim Gorman, and Dr. Mogens! Gaja is moving the other (dark) side, so I won't mind excluding him :) When it comes to RMAN, I am not even in the rookie stage. We bought a few copies of RF's book. But mine has now found its place under my desk! The Damagement is not yet willing to commit any time and resources to play with RMAN and without the Tivoli API, we can not do much. Although RMAN is free and the MML API may not cost as much, but when you have a merged Company like ours (VERIZON=GTE + BellAtlantic), we have our own 'sand boxes' and playing fields. Old BA stuff still uses SQL*BT while we, the fGTE DBAs want to move to RMAN But may be we all leave that decision to Amdocs, as they might get our IT business pretty soon, per some official rumors. Till then we will continue to use good old, and aged, hot backup scripts to backup databases of all shapes and sizes (from 1G to over 500G) Cheers! - Kirti snip __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Oh, you mean Elisonville! - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:59 PM Well, he is part of Oracle 'chefs' now. Praising the food before they cooked it ;) - Kirti --- Arup Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirti, Gaja is moving the other (dark) side??? Elaboration, please. Arup - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 5:29 PM Wow! Mladen, thanks for listing my name in your list. As Arup mentioned, you forgot yourself. I would also suggest Dan Fink, Tim Gorman, and Dr. Mogens! Gaja is moving the other (dark) side, so I won't mind excluding him :) When it comes to RMAN, I am not even in the rookie stage. We bought a few copies of RF's book. But mine has now found its place under my desk! The Damagement is not yet willing to commit any time and resources to play with RMAN and without the Tivoli API, we can not do much. Although RMAN is free and the MML API may not cost as much, but when you have a merged Company like ours (VERIZON=GTE + BellAtlantic), we have our own 'sand boxes' and playing fields. Old BA stuff still uses SQL*BT while we, the fGTE DBAs want to move to RMAN But may be we all leave that decision to Amdocs, as they might get our IT business pretty soon, per some official rumors. Till then we will continue to use good old, and aged, hot backup scripts to backup databases of all shapes and sizes (from 1G to over 500G) Cheers! - Kirti snip __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Arup Nanda INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN SQL Backtrack
Having experienced SQL*BackTrack, EBU, and RMAN. Yes RMAN is getting better (anyone else remember the nightmare called EBU). Yes RMAN still sucks. Yes RMAN is still free (get what ya pay for) SQL*BackTrack - Slicker than Owl S... Have the $, use SQL*BackTrack. Have no $, write a ksh script. Want to build your resume, use RMAN. You already have the investment in SQL*BackTrack licensing, so why not continue the few dollars it takes to buy support. Flame on Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RMAN SQL Backtrack .com 07/16/2003 07:59 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L We have been using SQL Backtrack for backup and recovery for about 6 years now. We are being pressured to start using RMAN because it is free. Makes sense but I am wondering about reliability, complexity, learning curve, etc... Has anyone had experience with both products or anyone new to RMAN that can give me an idea of what to expect? Thanks! Ron If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, any use, distribution or copying of the message is prohibited. Please let me know immediately by return e-mail if you have received this message by mistake, then delete the e-mail message. Thank you. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
