Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
And with ascii files, security becomes an issue. Its easy to change data and load it back without errors... And its easy to see confidential data too. =) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lyndon, Beacuse it's proprietary. Any dunce can create a flat ascii text file, which probably accounts for the wide audience it gets. But it takes a PHD to read a binary one. BTW: IBM and M$'s dump files are binary as well. Also, Oracle's default installation does scale, although not as well as it should. And to boot that's the reason your boss pays you. Look at as job justification. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 10:34 AM Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lyndon, True, an export file is peculiar to Oracle. The difference between a commercial database and an open source one. IBM and MicroSludge do the same. The functional purpose though is the same. Question: Why a binary file? More efficient? I find the plain text output more useful and easy to store. Recovery is easier as well, just cut and past the relevant lines of script and run it. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Maria Aurora VT de la Vega Oracle DBA Philippine Stock Exchange, Inc. Failure is only postponed success as long as courage 'coaches' ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Maria Aurora VT de la Vega INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
I too have seen too many DBA wannabes...mainly because of the pay Once they're in to it...only then do they see how complicated the job really is... Lyndon Tiu wrote: On Wednesday 12 February 2003 08:14 am, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Lyndon A rule of thumb in job-seeking is when you don't have experience, your education counts all the more. I agree. No Comp. Sci. education means - To quote Oracle 9i: Unemployable, Can't break-in, Just can't get it. This applies when you are just starting your career or when you are changing careers. I haven't seen too many DBA job postings that require a BSCS (always glad to be educated, though), but I can see if there were two candidates who had no Oracle experience or other IT experience, the one with a BSCS might be selected. Have you considered getting the OCP? I have OCP, SCJP, LPI, SCSA, SCNA, EIEIO. I do believe that these certifications are worthless without job experience. Order of importance: 1) People you know (i.e. kiss ass) 2) Experience 3) Education 4) Certifications One heck of a lot less effort than a BSCS, and might carry more weight when being considered for a position. I don't think the OCP is a cure-all, but I think it can demonstrate a sincere interest in an Oracle career. Think of it as a way to separate yourself from other wannabes. I work for a company where a third are wannabes, and they kiss ass better than me : \ My impression is that during the dot-com wave a lot of people crowded into the IT field, and some of them jumped on Oracle. That might leave the field crowded at the moment, but any field has turnover. Some people become discouraged, others find other careers that suit them better, etc. If you take a 20-year perspective, the Oracle DBA field has nearly always had more demand than supply. Hey what am I saying . . . no way! If anyone on this list is getting discouraged, this is the time to pursue that truck driving career you've always dreamed of. Go! Hurry! ;-) I will be while before things get cleared up. By then, I'll be a pensioner. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Maria Aurora VT de la Vega Oracle DBA Philippine Stock Exchange, Inc. Failure is only postponed success as long as courage 'coaches' ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Maria Aurora VT de la Vega INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
Going back to the topic. I've been trying to avoid using RMAN for a long time... I've always been confident with my own scripts... But once you start getting more and more servers...more and more databases and on different platforms...you can get tired making separate scripts for windows and unix. Checking it one by one and when you change something...change it on each server. And another thing I liked about RMAN is that it checks each block for corruption and it copies only used blocks. Saves a lot of space. You can't do that with a file backup. =) Michael Fontana wrote: As a longtime Oracle DBA who has used many products, including RMAN, I find myself guilty of a paradoxical mistrust of RMAN, dating back from the time when Oracle has tried several products, including integration with Legato and other hardware/software backup vendors, without a consistent direction. In the little I've used RMAN, it seems quite complex and kludgy. Even the nomenclature and commands used by Oracle within the product are a challenge to learn. While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic and predictable recovery scenarios, true recovery situations are never so neat and clean. This is not an advertisement for any particular product, but we've had great success in my shop with a product called SQL*Backtrack from BMC. I've also heard that Veritas makes a good product, but I've not used it. From what I've seen of RMAN, at least so far, I feel far more confident with the home-cooked scripts I've been using for years. Any comments, or other interesting experiences? Perhaps we can do a list poll of favorite/preferred backup software? -- Maria Aurora VT de la Vega Oracle DBA Philippine Stock Exchange, Inc. "Failure is only postponed success as long as courage 'coaches' ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory."
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
On Thursday 13 February 2003 07:08 pm, Maria Aurora VT de la Vega wrote: I too have seen too many DBA wannabes...mainly because of the pay Once they're in to it...only then do they see how complicated the job really is... It is very complicated I agree. PostGreSQL does not come close to Oracle in funxtionality. I am already over-worked trying to manage just one PostGreSQL instance. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
On Thursday 13 February 2003 06:58 pm, Maria Aurora VT de la Vega wrote: And with ascii files, security becomes an issue. Its easy to change data and load it back without errors... And its easy to see confidential data too. You are right. That's where encryption comes into play. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon, Unfortunately Oracle is probably focused more on dealing with large databases with complicated uptime requirements. I can just imagine how long it would take to push 1TB through gzip. Doing a daily backup would require multiple CPU's just to deal with the fact that it would still be zipping up the previous day. There comes a time when an incremental backup makes really good sense. Perhaps we'll have to stick with the RMAN concept until someone tweaks gzip a little further? Oh, and in response to your final comment... I don't think easy was (nor should have been) Oracle's number one priority when designing rman. Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] fu.ca cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: RMAN: I don't trust it [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 11/02/2003 10:03 Please respond to ORACLE-L If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail or by telephone on (61 3) 9612-6999. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet e-mail for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Transurban City Link Ltd shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mark Richard INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN: I don't trust it
I dumped my home grown scripts pretty soon after Oracle released RMAN (after they fixed a number of early defects of course) and have never looked back. Although the RMAN scripting language is yet another language to learn it is well worth the effort. It allows you to backup an entire database with a surprisingly small number of commands (in the order to 5 I think), I doubt a home grown script using shell script or perl could be as simple. Also you will never be able to match the performance of RMAN with a home grown script simply because you do not have access to the data that RMAN has. Try doing incremental backups or optimising the backup of a data file that hasn't been used. A home grown script will backup entire data files whether used or not, while RMAN will only record the existence of the file, and rebuild the empty file during recovery. These type of optimisation greatly reduce your mean time to recovery. Recovery is also a lot simpler because RMAN does most of the work for you. I've never had any problems with RMAN locating the correct backup of various files. And because it is simpler, less experienced DBAs (DBA's new to an organisation or more junior DBAs) can have a better chance of recovering a database correctly - if the case should present itself. Having said all thatit is worth keeping yourself up to date with the latest RMAN defectsit is only software after all. :-) Cheers, Craig. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, 11 February 2003 11:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lyndon, Unfortunately Oracle is probably focused more on dealing with large databases with complicated uptime requirements. I can just imagine how long it would take to push 1TB through gzip. Doing a daily backup would require multiple CPU's just to deal with the fact that it would still be zipping up the previous day. There comes a time when an incremental backup makes really good sense. Perhaps we'll have to stick with the RMAN concept until someone tweaks gzip a little further? Oh, and in response to your final comment... I don't think easy was (nor should have been) Oracle's number one priority when designing rman. Lyndon Tiu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] fu.ca cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: RMAN: I don't trust it [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 11/02/2003 10:03 Please respond to ORACLE-L If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail or by telephone on (61 3) 9612-6999. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet e-mail for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Transurban City Link Ltd shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mark Richard INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
RE: RMAN: I don't trust it
Lyndon, You are comparing Apple with Orange here. I can backup my hsql database which is stored in a text file with: cp my_db my_db.backup using OS command only. :) Richard Ji -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 6:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as: pg_dump dbname | gzip dbname_backup.gz Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN: I don't trust it
On Monday 10 February 2003 07:23 pm, Richard Ji wrote: Lyndon, You are comparing Apple with Orange here. I can backup my hsql database which is stored in a text file with: What's hsql ? cp my_db my_db.backup I do not undertstand this command. Oracle database files are in binary format. Simply copying does not turn it into text sql scripts. Could you please explain further? Thanks. -- Lyndon Tiu -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
