Re[2]: Oracle vs. DB2
The Director of New Technologies here took a look at Oracle vs. DB2 vs. SQL*Server around the first of the year to see if it made any sense to remain with Oracle (remember my licensing problems of some months ago). Anyway, dollar for dollar he found that their all about the same in features/performance vs. dollars expended. Sure DB2 and SQL*Server were cheaper out of the box, but the add-ons that we got with Oracle added up to a higher cost in the end. To answer the questions you asked and buzzwords your faced with: The TCO or Total Cost of Ownership is just about a wash. Oracle leads somewhat since there is a larger third party market (or so I've been told). Oracle people are expensive, but there are also more of them in the marketplace. On the Future Market Position, some one correct me if I'm wrong, but Oracle is the #2 software company right behind MicroSoft so their not going away any time soon. On Demonstrated Technology, here I think Oracle takes a bit of a hit. Not because they don't lead the market but because they ship it when it's not fully cooked first. Hence we end up with some odd behavior that gets fixed quite soon. It's also the reason I don't use Oracle version X.0.0 release 1, but wait for release 2. And on the front of Platform Compatibility again Oracle took the lead covering more platforms than anyone else. Believe it or not, their still supporting HP MPE-IX even though all of the others have dropped it. I should know, had to call them yesterday. In general though, which ever database vendor you use is getting to be more and more a political decision within the company. And in many cases I think we're going to be faced with handling more than one vendor at a time. The other items that is somewhat perplexing is that certain vendors of application software are writing to a specific database vendor and then imbedding that database into the application as a black box. The bigger problem is that your then stuck with that database on that specific system (CPU and OS) and a vendor who has very little knowledge of what's going on. Especially when things break. Like our friends at a nameless payroll processing center who shipped us a server with Oracle 7.1 on it did not provide any details. Then the damned thing breaks on a Monday morning they are afraid we can't get anyone to look at it for 2 weeks. Yeah, right leave payroll undone for 2 weeks and see what happens. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 8/12/2002 3:31 PM -- Vergara, Michael (TEM) [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 08/12/02 14:38:19 -0800 Hi Everyone! Well, there's been a lot of Oracle vs. Microsoft traffic on the list, but now my Manglement wants a similar comparison to IBM's DB2. Does anyone know of web sites or locations where there are documented objective comparisons between Oracle and DB2? I'm faced with answering buzzwords like 'Future Market Position', 'T.C.O. - Cost Effectiveness', 'Demonstrated Technology', and 'Platform Compatibility'. www.ibm.com -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]: Oracle vs. DB2
Humm, If you've got Oracle DBA's who are swearing at their databases you might question the way they do their work. I've 25 instances I don't have to swear at any of them. Now the users, that's another story. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Steven Lembark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 8/13/2002 7:13 AM One thing that seems different to me: DBA's at the sites we work in with DB2 seem to swear by it more than at it. This is the reverse ratio I find at Oracle houses. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steven Lembark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Oracle vs. DB2
In the immortal words of Moe Syzlak: Whaaa?!? I need to ask for more money! Or was the implication that I have expensive tastes? ;) Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:44 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re[2]: Oracle vs. DB2 Oracle people are expensive -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]: Oracle vs DB2
Tim, Thanks for the copy of the marketing speil, I had not heard that one before. But, I'll take great exception to the claim that: It would make sense to select a database product based on price alone if database products were the predominant part of the overall information technology expenditures But this is simply not the case. Software costs (including upgrades and technical support) typically represent less than 15% of an IT budget and are small compared to the overall costs of hardware, operations and maintenance, consulting and training. I don't know about the remainder of you, but the cost of Oracle's software is quickly eclipsing the cost of everything else. Hence the beginnings of this post, which I agree with. In our company our yearly Oracle Support Agreement renewal is the #3 cost item and the cost of a new Oracle license exceeds the cost of the server it's going on. Someone PLEASE give these guys a reality check or else a good swift kick in the pants!! Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Oracle vs DB2
I too would love to see somebody give Oracle a reality check in regards to the prices of their software, but as much as I hate to say it, I just don't see it happening. Why? Because the ONLY reality check that Oracle is going to actually LISTEN to and do something about would be for people to stop using/buying their products. And I just don't see that happening either. In the enterprise data market, Oracle has the best product available (IMHO), and I think most people, and especially including Oracle Corp., know this. Based on that information alone, I just don't see them backing down their prices when, as much as people hate paying, they still will, because it's the best. =( -::YEX::- ))) -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, 25 April, 2001 12:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tim, Thanks for the copy of the marketing speil, I had not heard that one before. But, I'll take great exception to the claim that: It would make sense to select a database product based on price alone if database products were the predominant part of the overall information technology expenditures But this is simply not the case. Software costs (including upgrades and technical support) typically represent less than 15% of an IT budget and are small compared to the overall costs of hardware, operations and maintenance, consulting and training. I don't know about the remainder of you, but the cost of Oracle's software is quickly eclipsing the cost of everything else. Hence the beginnings of this post, which I agree with. In our company our yearly Oracle Support Agreement renewal is the #3 cost item and the cost of a new Oracle license exceeds the cost of the server it's going on. Someone PLEASE give these guys a reality check or else a good swift kick in the pants!! Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yexley Robert D SSgt AFIT/SCA INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Oracle vs DB2
I guess they can make their money by targeting the high end and having a few high paying customers, or be more reasonable and have a broader base. I get the feeling that Larry's ego (psychoanalysis from a distance, ain't it wonderful) would drive him to both the $ and the broad base. If you are competing against Bill Gates, you not only need the money, but also the exposure. Everyone knows Windows, you can't have just the elite knowing about Oracle. So where does that put us in 6 months? Henry -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 2:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I too would love to see somebody give Oracle a reality check in regards to the prices of their software, but as much as I hate to say it, I just don't see it happening. Why? Because the ONLY reality check that Oracle is going to actually LISTEN to and do something about would be for people to stop using/buying their products. And I just don't see that happening either. In the enterprise data market, Oracle has the best product available (IMHO), and I think most people, and especially including Oracle Corp., know this. Based on that information alone, I just don't see them backing down their prices when, as much as people hate paying, they still will, because it's the best. =( -::YEX::- ))) -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, 25 April, 2001 12:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tim, Thanks for the copy of the marketing speil, I had not heard that one before. But, I'll take great exception to the claim that: It would make sense to select a database product based on price alone if database products were the predominant part of the overall information technology expenditures But this is simply not the case. Software costs (including upgrades and technical support) typically represent less than 15% of an IT budget and are small compared to the overall costs of hardware, operations and maintenance, consulting and training. I don't know about the remainder of you, but the cost of Oracle's software is quickly eclipsing the cost of everything else. Hence the beginnings of this post, which I agree with. In our company our yearly Oracle Support Agreement renewal is the #3 cost item and the cost of a new Oracle license exceeds the cost of the server it's going on. Someone PLEASE give these guys a reality check or else a good swift kick in the pants!! Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yexley Robert D SSgt AFIT/SCA INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]:Oracle vs DB2
At 01:35 PM 4/24/01 -0400, you wrote: Dennis, OK, but your sales critter is DEAD wrong. We bought a Standard edition from Yep. Based on your statement, I checked with the critter. He says yes, you can do it with Standard version. Which costs (ballpark) $33K Cdn for the unlimited user version, vs $6K for DB2. Closer. Close enough that if you already had a large investment in Oracle, you'd probably grit your teeth and pay it. The remaining issue as far as I'm concerned is the fact of having to pay Oracle more $$ if I replace my server at any time, even if only with one with a faster cpu. Dennis Taylor Beware of false economies. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
