Re[2]: Rant-Rant
Well, just watch your mailbox for when the "American society of Morticians" starts sending you funeral planning information. Now you know your REALLY old. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/23/2002 7:38 AM AARP has already stopped sending me propaganda. I think I am the oldest on the list. RBG - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:33 AM > so sweet. so deluded. > > I'm one of the chronological seniors here.. not the oldest I've found > but close > > on the other hand, AARP (American Association of Retired People) hasn't > started sending me their propaganda yet > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I didn't know that they gave Managers jobs to people under 20 :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -- > > = > > Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com > > APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 > > Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 > > Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 > > = > > A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. > > > > - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) > > = > > Mincom "The People, The Experience, The Vision" > > > > = > > > > This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is > > confidential > > information. If you have received this transmission in error, please > > delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the > > opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group > > of > > companies unless expressly stated otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 22-07-2002 07:08 PM > > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cc: > > Fax to: > > Subject:RE: Rant-Rant > > > > > > Oh I know. I was lucky my last job, we had two full-time DBAs (one > > senior - me, and one junior/mid) and one senior DBA consultant. > > > > I *did* look at my boss last week and said "I no longer work 20 hour > > days". > > > > Not that I had to. He's good, he's very adamant about the fact that > > if > > there is too much work for one person, we will either hire > > consultants > > or the deadlines will be changed. I'd fall in love with him but he's > > way too young for me. :) > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > > > > > you are actually proving my point - that a company does not have > > the > > > luxury > > > (or common sense) to have more than one DBA on staff. > > > > > > Robert's utopia just doesn't fly in todays world. hire one person > > > and > > > work-em till they drop is the current motto. > > > > > > Tom Mercadante > > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:24 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >The only problem with your idea that I see is that a typical > > > >organization > > > >will only keep one (or so) DBA on staff per project - they rarely > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse me while I wipe the Diet Coke off the screen that I spit out > > > when I read this. One DBA per project? Oh God that would be a > > luxury > > > beyond belief. > > > > > > As I type this I am the DBA for: > > > > > > a new data mart/data warehouse project > > > a new content management system project > > > a new ecommerce project > > > the existing "universal login" project AND the replacement project > > > the existing asset management application > > > the existing "community" site (bulletin boards) > > > > > > and anything else that needs a DBA ... and I am it, ain't no other > > > DBAs > > > around .. > > > > > > oh yeah, I'm the data architect and data modeler on half these as > > > well... which is REALLY funny as I have almost zero data modeling > > > experience, other than "common sense" > > > > > > > > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > OMG! A Socialist in the group! > > > > > > > > "I believe that if we think about these things in a way that we > > ask > > > > > > > ourselves how can I maximize the potential of this person in our > > > > organization, pay him/her a fair wage for what they can do, and > > > free > > > > up my > > > > time to address the really gnarly stuff we can help our entire > > > > society > > > > better transition to the information era and not marginalize a > > > bunch > > > > of > > > > great people in the process." > > > > > > > > The only problem with you
RE: Re[2]: Rant
Coffee in the moring for me gives me a boost.
Coffee in the afternoon/evening puts me to sleep.
You're a psycho/No I'm Not!
Tom (splitting personalities) Mercadante
-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 2:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
And coffee is WAY cheaper than Addrell (my son's prescription). Caffeine
helps hyperactive people focus.
-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:03 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Caffeine calms down hyperactive people, it's one of the symptoms for that
condition.
As for me, beer puts me to sleep. I don't know what THAT means.
: )
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systemes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
Maritimes Region, DFO | Region des Maritimes, MPO
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 2:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re: Re[2]: Rant
only a dba would think of drinking coffee as something
that would calm one down! har har har
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Re[2]: Rant
Ruth, Excuse me, but how is that going to fix the bad datafile? Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 10:13 AM You have to restore the tablespace with the datafile you want to restore to a clone database and export the datafile's contents from the clone and import it into the database with the bad datafile. HTH, R - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:13 PM I read your rant, and I agree with you. But I do have one little itsy bitsy question... > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > asked every candidate how they would do an online > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > use. No ideas. Not even close. How DO you do an online recovery of a datafile while the database is still in use? I've had to do recoveries before, but never this scenario. Thanks, Mike -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]: Rant
It might mean that you are not a fun dataRuth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 2:03 PM Caffeine calms down hyperactive people, it's one of the symptoms for that condition. As for me, beer puts me to sleep. I don't know what THAT means. : ) Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 2:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L only a dba would think of drinking coffee as something that would calm one down! har har har -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Rant
Interesting. Coffee has a calming effect? I prefer the good "ACME Earthquake Pill" effect of iced tea, myself. ;) The last time we had a developer truncate a 3M row table, I had fun with it. "Fun" because some of our recovery implementations were finally proven successful, no data was lost, and downtime was minimal and limited to off-hours. Current and future Oracle job seekers need to keep the stuff in this thread in mind! :) Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:43 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re[2]: Rant > > > Ken, > > The reason I liked the guy we hired as out Junior DBA. > He did not know the > answer, but did know where to find it in the manuals. He > also knew to calm > himself down. Premature actions often cause more trouble. > > Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Rant
And coffee is WAY cheaper than Addrell (my son's prescription). Caffeine
helps hyperactive people focus.
-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:03 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Caffeine calms down hyperactive people, it's one of the symptoms for that
condition.
As for me, beer puts me to sleep. I don't know what THAT means.
: )
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 2:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re: Re[2]: Rant
only a dba would think of drinking coffee as something
that would calm one down! har har har
--
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--
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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RE: Re[2]: Rant
Caffeine calms down hyperactive people, it's one of the symptoms for that condition. As for me, beer puts me to sleep. I don't know what THAT means. : ) Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 2:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Re[2]: Rant only a dba would think of drinking coffee as something that would calm one down! har har har -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]: Rant
only a dba would think of drinking coffee as something that would calm one down! har har har On 22 Jul 2002 at 7:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > The reason I liked the guy we hired as out Junior DBA. He did not know the > answer, but did know where to find it in the manuals. He also knew to calm > himself down. Premature actions often cause more trouble. ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]:Rant
Thankfully neither do I. Reply Separator Author: mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 7:30 AM Wait, the best one yet I heard last week: 'the redo log in 9i is going away...' (Surely you mean that undo tbsp can be used instead of rollback segment tablespace, right???) Yes I see your point, but thankfully, I don't do this very often. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > mkb, > > Your surprised? Over the last 6 years I've > interviewed many a candidate > while we added two DBA's to the group. I've gotten > a lot of answers like this: > > Question: How do you create a table? > Answer: The developer sends me a script. I run > script. > > Question: How do you shutdown a database? > Answer: Turn off the power to the computer. > > Question: How do you change the block size of a > database. > Answer: Change it in init.ora, restart database. > > Question: How do you add a datafile to a > tablespace? > Answer: You can't. > > Question: What are archived redo logs? > Answer: There is no such thing. > > BTW: these folks had an OCP certificate. > > Best answer to a question I've asked: > > Question: You have a database crash at 6AM, what > do you do. > Answer: Get a cup of coffee first, then look in > recovery manual. > > We hired the guy, he's still here 2 years later and > just recently got his OCP. > > Dick Goulet > > Reply > Separator > Subject:Rant > Author: mkb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 7/22/2002 6:58 AM > > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews > over > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone > with > about 2-3 years experience. > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > intelligent conversation about these topics. No > such > luck! > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked > to, > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget > about > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a > high > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't > care > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The > answers > I got were completely off base, baffling and > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > years experience!!! > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure > how > these are done...' (But it says on your resume > you've > done this???) > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's > not > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? > What?) > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as > to > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > asked every candidate how they would do an online > recover of a datafile while the database was still > in > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of > this > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > much? > > Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > mkb > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: mkb > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: > (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet > access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 F
Re[2]: Rant
Ken, The reason I liked the guy we hired as out Junior DBA. He did not know the answer, but did know where to find it in the manuals. He also knew to calm himself down. Premature actions often cause more trouble. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: "KENNETH JANUSZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 7/22/2002 7:23 AM One thing to keep in mind is that it is easy to get "rattled" during a job interview and have your mind go blank on you. This is especially true with computer technical types who are basically introverts. Some years back when I was a corporate controller I interviewed a young lady for a admin type position. Her interview was a total disaster. She took the typing test and completely messed it up. But there was something about her skills that came through and I hired her. I was never sorry that I did. She could type up complicated tax forms that were always 100% correct. She was a model employee. Sometimes you have to go by your gut feel. Answers to technical questions are not the complete picture. My $0.02 worth, Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:58 AM > Ok, I need to vent a little. > > Last week, I was asked to do some tech interviews over > the phones for a mid level DBA position. Someone with > about 2-3 years experience. > > I don't consider myself a real smart DBA, nor do I > think that I ask particularly tough questions. The > questions that I ask potential candidates are soley > based on what is on the resume. So I figure if > someone has, say, hot backups or SQL tuning on their > resumes, I'd expect them to be able to hold a fairly > intelligent conversation about these topics. No such > luck! > > What really frustrated me, and what I really want to > get out of my system, is that nobody that I talked to, > had a real good concept of hot backups. Forget about > recovery. I asked each and every candidate who > claimed to have done hot backups, just give me a high > level overview of how you do a hot backup. Don't care > about syntax, just give me the mechanics. The answers > I got were completely off base, baffling and > frustrating. Some of these folks claimed to have 5 > years experience!!! > > 'Well, we use scripts to do these, so I'm not sure how > these are done...' (But it says on your resume you've > done this???) > > 'Oh, I take the tablespace offline, and copy the > datafile to tape...' (Unless I'm mistaken, that's not > how a hot backup is done, right?) > > 'Well, I use the export utility, and as the backup > starts, it is written to the dump file.' (Huh? What?) > > 'During this time, everything is written to the redo > logs and not to the tablespace...' (You've been > reading one of those books, haven't you?) > > I also asked them how they'd put a tablespace in > backup mode. Simple enough, right? Not one of them > got it right. Not even close. Didn't have clue as to > what I was talking about. Fair enough, you don't > know. Well how about a simple recovery scenario. I > asked every candidate how they would do an online > recover of a datafile while the database was still in > use. No ideas. Not even close. > > I dunno, perhaps I'm spoilt by being a member of this > list? Perhaps I expect every candidate to be as > knowledgeable as you guys? Perhaps I'm asking too > much? > > Rant over. Thanks for listening. > > mkb > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: mkb > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: KENNETH JANUSZ INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-
