surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
Hi, dba friends: The following is what i get this afternoon and want to share my test result with your friends, and hope to get your opinion about this result. I am so surprised with my test result of Dell 6650 system vs Sun 3500.We are running RAC 9.2 on Dell 6650 dual node, and i want to apply patch to rac and converted application from rac to another database server(HA standby machine for another Sun 4500, idle in most time). The application is CPU intensive which capture snapshot from central database server and provide catalog service to web and middileware. The sun server is Sun 3500 with 8*400MCPU and 8G memory,and DELL RAC system with 4*1.4G Xeon MP 256K Cache and 4G memory.I wanted to move the application from RAC to sun(running oracle 8172),I stopped one rac node and converted the connection to sun 3500. Before i go to the next step of moving connection on the second node, i was suprised to find that the sun Server's load is 7(uptime result)!While the load on the remaining RAC node is 1! and finally i was unable to move the load on the other rac node to sun, for sun is already overloaded. I ran the application on 3500 for 4 hours. The average load on sun is 5-7, while on the Dell node, it is 1-1.5. Sar result shows that sun has average of 30% CPU idle,while Dell has 70% CPU idle. I should say that the pressure on the two db server is the same, the middleware and alton(hardware) ensure that the pressure on both server is the same. So, what is the advantage of Sun? Redhat Advanced server and 920 is also so much stable, and Sun T3 disk array is also of poor performance. CPU poor, disk array not that good, why sun? Regards zhu chao Eachnet DBA 86-21-32174588-667 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.happyit.net www.cnoug.org(Chinese Oracle User Group) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: chao_ping INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
-Original Message- So, what is the advantage of Sun? Redhat Advanced server and 920 is also so much stable, and Sun T3 disk array is also of poor performance. CPU poor, disk array not that good, why sun? -- One thing I noticed is that you were using an older Sun. The current Suns have CPU's more than twice as fast as what you are using. It would be interesting to see the results using a new Sun rather than an old one. I have always thought the Dell PowerEdge series was an excellent value. But I have always appreciated the very well thought-out design of the Sun machines and the overall excellent package of solid hardware, very stable OS, and excellent customer service that Sun provides. Some capabilities of the Sun -- which might or might not exist on the Dell (I don't know) -- are the ability to partition the machine into domains and dynamically move resources between the domains. The Sun will run OK with a bad memory module or bad CPU's. As long as the Sun has one working CPU, it will run. I haven't done sys admin work for a while, but in the past, Sun provided a utility called Symon that displayed a detailed picture of the system boards and, if there was a problem with a component, would show you which component had failed. Whether these features are of any value to you depends on you. One other point in favor of the Sun is that Sun is excellent at maintaining backward compatibility in releases of its OS. You could, in fact, take a ten year old Sparc IPC, install Solaris on it, and use it as a web server or file server. Almost every old (in computer terms) Sun shop has those old lunch box (not pizza boxes) Sun's hanging around, still perfectly usable. Something I doubt could be said about a 10 year old Intel box. As I have mentioned in a previous post, the SunSolve CD is an excellent resource. One is tempted say worth its weight in gold, but it is actually worth more than that. As far as the preoccupation with which box can produce the best benchmark: In my personal philosophy, either a box is fast enough to run the application for which it is intended, or it is not. After that point those less tangible qualities, such as those listed about, do count and should be considered. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephen Lee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
-Original Message- I am also having a weird performance issue with a sun box - mine is a new v880 4 cpu (900mz) with 16g of ram and a 2 T hitachi san. - My first suspicion would involve the SAN. We have one system here that, for whatever reason, (sorry, I'm not the SAN expert), the computer and the storage system do not work well with each other. As a result, disk writes are VERY slow. This affects both large data inserts and updates, and large sorts (such as reports) that require the use of on-disk temp space. I've been told that the particular version of the OS (Tru64) doesn't work properly with the cache on this storage system. They are in the process of changing the version of the OS. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephen Lee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
I am also having a weird performance issue with a sun box - mine is a new v880 4 cpu (900mz) with 16g of ram and a 2 T hitachi san. For example - I do an import of a table (partitioned 3 m rows ) and it takes almost 8 minutes vs 3 minutes on my laptop. both running 9.2.0 . many reports take significantly longer on the sun box than my laptop - go figure - I have a tar on it - but resolutions yet. I have uploaded statspack up to oraperf and nothing significant showed up there either. Anybody have a idea I'd be happy to try it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/15/02 10:00AM -Original Message- So, what is the advantage of Sun? Redhat Advanced server and 920 is also so much stable, and Sun T3 disk array is also of poor performance. CPU poor, disk array not that good, why sun? --One thing I noticed is that you were using an older Sun. The current Sunshave CPU's more than twice as fast as what you are using. It would beinteresting to see the results using a new Sun rather than an old one. Ihave always thought the Dell PowerEdge series was an excellent value. But Ihave always appreciated the very well thought-out design of the Sun machinesand the overall excellent package of solid hardware, very stable OS, andexcellent customer service that Sun provides.Some capabilities of the Sun -- which might or might not exist on the Dell(I don't know) -- are the ability to partition the machine into "domains"and dynamically move resources between the domains. The Sun will run OKwith a bad memory module or bad CPU's. As long as the Sun has one workingCPU, it will run. I haven't done sys admin work for a while, but in thepast, Sun provided a utility called Symon that displayed a detailed pictureof the system boards and, if there was a problem with a component, wouldshow you which component had failed. Whether these features are of anyvalue to you depends on you. One other point in favor of the Sun is thatSun is excellent at maintaining backward compatibility in releases of itsOS. You could, in fact, take a ten year old Sparc IPC, install Solaris onit, and use it as a web server or file server. Almost every old (incomputer terms) Sun shop has those old "lunch box" (not pizza boxes) Sun'shanging around, still perfectly usable. Something I doubt could be saidabout a 10 year old Intel box.As I have mentioned in a previous post, the SunSolve CD is an excellentresource. One is tempted say "worth its weight in gold", but it is actuallyworth more than that.As far as the preoccupation with which box can produce the best benchmark:In my personal philosophy, either a box is fast enough to run theapplication for which it is intended, or it is not. After that point thoseless tangible qualities, such as those listed about, do count and should beconsidered.-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: Stephen Lee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
We experienced the same problems at my work where dual P3 Xeons running at 1.133Mhz (Compaq Proliants) outperformed a SunFire280R 2:1 in I/O performance. This means that the Proliant had twice more throughput than the 5x more expensive Sun. I don't understand this and I have no explanation from Sun nor from anybody else. I'd hate to say this but Sun is on it's way out if this is the case. -- Lyndon Tiu Quoting John Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am also having a weird performance issue with a sun box - mine is a new v880 4 cpu (900mz) with 16g of ram and a 2 T hitachi san. For example - I do an import of a table (partitioned 3 m rows ) and it takes almost 8 minutes vs 3 minutes on my laptop. both running 9.2.0 . many reports take significantly longer on the sun box than my laptop - go figure - I have a tar on it - but resolutions yet. I have uploaded statspack up to oraperf and nothing significant showed up there either. Anybody have a idea I'd be happy to try it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/15/02 10:00AM -Original Message- So, what is the advantage of Sun? Redhat Advanced server and 920 is also so much stable, and Sun T3 disk array is also of poor performance. CPU poor, disk array not that good, why sun? -- One thing I noticed is that you were using an older Sun. The current Suns have CPU's more than twice as fast as what you are using. It would be interesting to see the results using a new Sun rather than an old one. I have always thought the Dell PowerEdge series was an excellent value. But I have always appreciated the very well thought-out design of the Sun machines and the overall excellent package of solid hardware, very stable OS, and excellent customer service that Sun provides. Some capabilities of the Sun -- which might or might not exist on the Dell (I don't know) -- are the ability to partition the machine into domains and dynamically move resources between the domains. The Sun will run OK with a bad memory module or bad CPU's. As long as the Sun has one working CPU, it will run. I haven't done sys admin work for a while, but in the past, Sun provided a utility called Symon that displayed a detailed picture of the system boards and, if there was a problem with a component, would show you which component had failed. Whether these features are of any value to you depends on you. One other point in favor of the Sun is that Sun is excellent at maintaining backward compatibility in releases of its OS. You could, in fact, take a ten year old Sparc IPC, install Solaris on it, and use it as a web server or file server. Almost every old (in computer terms) Sun shop has those old lunch box (not pizza boxes) Sun's hanging around, still perfectly usable. Something I doubt could be said about a 10 year old Intel box. As I have mentioned in a previous post, the SunSolve CD is an excellent resource. One is tempted say worth its weight in gold, but it is actually worth more than that. As far as the preoccupation with which box can produce the best benchmark: In my personal philosophy, either a box is fast enough to run the application for which it is intended, or it is not. After that point those less tangible qualities, such as those listed about, do count and should be considered. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephen Lee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
Stephen Lee, To tell you the truth, sun 4500 is the most high end sun i have ever touched:), so i do not have experience on concept like partition etc. And talking about that excellent High Avaliable feature like CPU/Memory corruption and the server still run,that is really something great. And i did not know it before.And i think it is impossible to implement on that kind of low end Dell PC servers, but for servers like V880, that is also something impossible i think, right? We cannot compare a product whose value is 1M$ with products whose value is 10K$:). After all, intel is still on middle-low end. Thanks for your valueable knowledge, thanks. Regards zhu chao Eachnet DBA 86-21-32174588-667 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.happyit.net www.cnoug.org(Chinese Oracle User Group) === 2002-11-15 08:00:00 ,you wrote£º=== -Original Message- So, what is the advantage of Sun? Redhat Advanced server and 920 is also so much stable, and Sun T3 disk array is also of poor performance. CPU poor, disk array not that good, why sun? -- One thing I noticed is that you were using an older Sun. The current Suns have CPU's more than twice as fast as what you are using. It would be interesting to see the results using a new Sun rather than an old one. I have always thought the Dell PowerEdge series was an excellent value. But I have always appreciated the very well thought-out design of the Sun machines and the overall excellent package of solid hardware, very stable OS, and excellent customer service that Sun provides. Some capabilities of the Sun -- which might or might not exist on the Dell (I don't know) -- are the ability to partition the machine into domains and dynamically move resources between the domains. The Sun will run OK with a bad memory module or bad CPU's. As long as the Sun has one working CPU, it will run. I haven't done sys admin work for a while, but in the past, Sun provided a utility called Symon that displayed a detailed picture of the system boards and, if there was a problem with a component, would show you which component had failed. Whether these features are of any value to you depends on you. One other point in favor of the Sun is that Sun is excellent at maintaining backward compatibility in releases of its OS. You could, in fact, take a ten year old Sparc IPC, install Solaris on it, and use it as a web server or file server. Almost every old (in computer terms) Sun shop has those old lunch box (not pizza boxes) Sun's hanging around, still perfectly usable. Something I doubt could be said about a 10 year old Intel box. As I have mentioned in a previous post, the SunSolve CD is an excellent resource. One is tempted say worth its weight in gold, but it is actually worth more than that. As far as the preoccupation with which box can produce the best benchmark: In my personal philosophy, either a box is fast enough to run the application for which it is intended, or it is not. After that point those less tangible qualities, such as those listed about, do count and should be considered. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephen Lee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: chao_ping INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
-Original Message- And talking about that excellent High Avaliable feature like CPU/Memory corruption and the server still run Maybe I should clarify. If you lose a memory module, the box will almost certainly reboot itself and come back up with the memory module taken offline. You can't suddenly have a chunk of memory disappear from the OS and the OS continue as if nothing happened. I think the same thing is true for sudden CPU failure. What I have actually seen, with my own eyes, was a situation where a Sparc 4000 was put under a table and between two other computers where the flow of air through the 4000 was blocked. The box had 6 CPU's, as it began to overheat, it shutdown 4 of the CPU's. One could run the Symon tool on a remote box and see the CPU's in the color red on the pictures of the system boards. On the low end of servers, the mainline Unix vendors (such as Sun) have chosen not to jump into the middle of the vicious competition there. But as you move to larger servers, I think you see that the boxes from vendors such as Sun become more and more competitve as the server size increases. So, no, my first choice for a 2-CPU box would probably not be a Sun. I haven't checked prices for a few months now, but the last time I checked, an 8-CPU Sun was fully competitive in pricing with an equivalent 8-Xeon Dell. Of course, pricing changes constantly so my info could be out of date now. And, when I checked pricing on the web sites, I was assuming that you could still count on a 20% discount off list price from a Sun reseller, since that was always the case in the past. Also, in the past, if you spent $1M in a year, you could buy directly from Sun for a 30% discount. I don't know if those discounts still work that way today. One thing is for sure: There is certainly a lot to consider! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephen Lee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
Actually, I know that IBM has some boxes with redundant (RAIDed -- their term) memory, although I don't know which class of machine. Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: Stephen Lee [mailto:slee;dollar.com] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650 -Original Message- And talking about that excellent High Avaliable feature like CPU/Memory corruption and the server still run Maybe I should clarify. If you lose a memory module, the box will almost certainly reboot itself and come back up with the memory module taken offline. You can't suddenly have a chunk of memory disappear from the OS and the OS continue as if nothing happened. I think the same thing is true for sudden CPU failure. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
