[OGD] Phragmipediums
G'Day All, No offence meant, but do you theink that we could please have a Pk-free day or so? I have a Pk of 12, and rising at the moment. Cordially, Phil ### Dr Phil Diamond [EMAIL PROTECTED] 66 Cliff Street, Sandgate, Qld, AUSTRALIA 4017. Tel +61 7 3269 0302 ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Phragmipediums ex Peter Croezen
Hi All, I am far from being a taxonomic authority. However, there are two online plant databases that are very extensive and, barring any human errors, should reflect the spelling provided by the original authors. Those two databases (IPNI and W3 Tropicos) show the correct spelling to be boissierianum, with three is. This species originally was described in 1854 as Cypripedium boissierianum by Reichenbach in Bonplandia. Rolfe later transferred this species to the genus Paphiopedilum (1894) and then Phragmipedium (1896), however the spelling of the species name remained the same throughout its taxonomic journey. As to the distribution of this species, I have seen large aggregations of P. reticulatum, a closely related species, growing on the slopes above road cuts in Ecuador. These plants were in full sun at the time I saw them, but I was not paying attention to the orientation of the slope. According to Baker Baker, P. boissierianum grows on southwest-facing slopes in the Tingo Maria area of Peru; I do not know the original source for that observation. Ron Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:00:19 -0400 From: icones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OGD] Phragmipediums ex Peter Croezen Oliver, Whenever I have a question on spelling I try to go back to the original publication (if I can) and see how it was originally spelled. Unfortunately, I don't have 'Bonplandia or 'Xenia Orchidaceae' (the two earliest references). So to the things I do have. All the things I checked Stein, Williams, Veitch, Kew Monocot checklist, Henessy, Schweinfurth, and Schlechter, spell it as Peter spelled it. However, Cash spells it 'boissieranum' leaving the 'i' out between the 'r' and 'a' (a rather strange thing!). I found no source that used your spelling, that does not mean there are none, I just did not find any in the references I checked. icones Picture # 3 shows a patch of Phragmipedium boissieranum (note spelling) photographed in sunlight, which is no proof they grow in full sun all day. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Phragmipediums ex Peter Croezen
First, thanks for the kind remarks. However, you say: Picture # 3 shows a patch of Phragmipedium boissieranum (note spelling) photographed in sunlight, which is no proof they grow in full sun all day. Other people who offered advice during the production of the web page (and the web in general, if one is to believe a Google search) seems to prefer P. boisserianum. I freely admit my ignorance; I have no books to hand that address Latin orchids,and so I am in a muddle. So, please, ¿what is the correct species name for this plant? __ Oliver Sparrow +44 (0)20 7736 9716 www.chforum.org ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Phragmipediums ex Peter Croezen
Oliver, Whenever I have a question on spelling I try to go back to the original publication (if I can) and see how it was originally spelled. Unfortunately, I don't have 'Bonplandia or 'Xenia Orchidaceae' (the two earliest references). So to the things I do have. All the things I checked Stein, Williams, Veitch, Kew Monocot checklist, Henessy, Schweinfurth, and Schlechter, spell it as Peter spelled it. However, Cash spells it 'boissieranum' leaving the 'i' out between the 'r' and 'a' (a rather strange thing!). I found no source that used your spelling, that does not mean there are none, I just did not find any in the references I checked. icones Picture # 3 shows a patch of Phragmipedium boissieranum (note spelling) photographed in sunlight, which is no proof they grow in full sun all day. Other people who offered advice during the production of the web page (and the web in general, if one is to believe a Google search) seems to prefer P. boisserianum. I freely admit my ignorance; I have no books to hand that address Latin orchids,and so I am in a muddle. So, please, ¿what is the correct species name for this plant? __ Oliver Sparrow +44 (0)20 7736 9716 www.chforum.org ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Phragmipediums ex Peter Croezen
Oliver, After I sent the below e-mail I continued to do some checking, and did find where David Bennett and Eric Christenson used your spelling in 'Icones Orchidacearum Peruviarum' plate 151. As I know Eric monitors this list, he might be willing to talk with us about the correct spelling of this name. icones Oliver, Whenever I have a question on spelling I try to go back to the original publication (if I can) and see how it was originally spelled. Unfortunately, I don't have 'Bonplandia or 'Xenia Orchidaceae' (the two earliest references). So to the things I do have. All the things I checked Stein, Williams, Veitch, Kew Monocot checklist, Henessy, Schweinfurth, and Schlechter, spell it as Peter spelled it. However, Cash spells it 'boissieranum' leaving the 'i' out between the 'r' and 'a' (a rather strange thing!). I found no source that used your spelling, that does not mean there are none, I just did not find any in the references I checked. icones ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Phragmipediums
Oliver, I was not being critical of your post, but merely gave another perspective of Phragmipedium habitats inPeru. The pictures you refer us toat URL http://www.trekperu.org/travel02.html. are absolutely wonderful; congratulations!! Picture # 3 shows a patch of Phragmipedium boissieranum (note spelling) photographed in sunlight, which isno proof they grow in full sun all day. South facingcliffs and wallsof East West Valleys, or along East West roads, shaded most of the day, may receive sunlight in the earlymorning and late afternoon; thus Phragmipediums growing on themcan be photographed in sunlight. The long leaf shadows, down and to the left of one P. boissieranum inthe # 3picture, more than likelyindicate that this plant was photographedon a south facing wall, or cliff, early in the morning. Travelling all dayfrom Moyobamba to Chachapoyas, searching the steep cliffs and walls along the road for orchids, we only found one patch of Phragmipedium boissieranum, though off road theygrow likeweeds wherever there is sufficient moisture for them. This single patch perhaps 10 x 10 meters, was on the south facing black "rock" wall(hardened thin layer of clay like substance) near the 405 km marker. I wasclimbing on thatblack "rock," to reach a hugeclump of Phragmipedium boissieranum about 2 meters up, when all of a sudden the "rock" gave way and I came down with it, sliding on and exposing thewet clay below it. (No, the orchids did not come down.) That clay remains wet from water that runs below the surface in that particular location.The Phragmipedium roots are in the clay, or inpockets of debris on its dried hard surface. Phragmipediums which grow in pockets of debris on these "rocks" often havelong roots growing out overthe exposed surface, for these roots are shaded and notdehydrated and killed by the sun. Thanks againfor the super pictures Oliver, theyan excellent window on travelling inNorthern Peru. peter ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Phragmipediums
Oliver who writes: I've seen P besseae growing in Ecuador at ~6000 ft on a northeast-facing granite cliff. I am certain you have seen them there Oliver, this sunny NE location is probably tolerated becauseenough water flows past the roots. Most other species Phragmipedium that I have seen in Peru grow in semi shade, usually on South facing slopes of valleys, or near rivers in the shade of trees. I suspect that many species which are seen on cliffs not so much from preference as that they are there because that is the only place that goats and other browsers do not go. This may be true ina specific habitat. If indeed Phragmipedium species can have a preference, they are on certain cliffsfrom the preference for water; the place where the Phragmipedium seeds landed and were able to germinate due to the presence of water. Many cliff habitats of Phragmipedium species have no goats grazing on the flats above the cliffs. Still, Phrags are only found on the cliffs and noton the flats. They areon those cliffsbecause of the abundance of water that comestumbling down all year. Itcreatesafog; high humidity and runspast the Phragmipedium roots. I have collected roots in those habitats, these are usually very short and stubby for they do not have to search a large area for nutrients. The roots often showed an active symbiotic relationship, for they contained live fungal coils in the act of forming new pelotons. Thus it would appear that in addition to nutrients supplied by the water,some nutrients areprovided by the fungus. peter ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Phragmipediums
Quote: I've seen P besseae growing in Ecuador at ~6000 ft on a northeast-facing granite cliff with water running continuously down the cliff face. They were also growing at the base of the cliff in amongst the weeds, grasses rocks. I am not even vaguely an expert on this genus. However, for what it is worth the P. besseae that are knownn in Peru (near Tarapoto) grow in seasonal semi-tropical conditions at around 500 m (say, 1500 ft) in tumbled old Andesite and limestone remnants. (This is the decayed East flank of the Andes, where the rock is wearing away.) The habitat is rocky scrubland, rapidly eroding under grazing. I suspect that many species which are seen on cliffs not so much from preference as that they are there because that is the only place that goats and other browsers do not go. The key to the more vertical of the lithophytes - as with alpine plants - is excellent drainage, and the predictability of dry seasons where these are appropriate. Tarapoto does not have a true dry season, but there are wetter periods and dry ones - the Southern hemisphere winter, now - when it does not rain for periods of a week or more. Roads that are now concrete-like become soup in January-March, as anyone attempting the Carretera Marginal at that time of year can attest: Juanjui ate my Toyota. __ Oliver Sparrow +44 (0)20 7736 9716 www.chforum.org ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Phragmipediums
As I was only partially interested in orchids when P.besseae was first discovered was there as much fuss with cites and governments as with P. kovachi or did it get into the hands of professional breeders quickly and quitely. Even though it is easily now available from nurseries, while I was in Ecuador, I was advised that areas were still stripped of flowering plants, .Regards from Devon,England ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
