Re: [Origami] Protocol for permission from deceased paperfolders
In response to a question: How does the compensation agreement that Harbin had with Montoya (if any) impact future sales of the Harbin works with her models? On 5/4/2014 11:34 PM, Laura wrote: Harbin (snip) requested Ligia if he could publish them in his books. Ligia accepted, no money involved, in other words, she gave him permission. (snip) That seems to be the usual way in which most authors of origami books source material from origami creators/designers. Origami creators/designers are usually compensated with a complimentary copy of that book, nothing more. It works on the basis of a willing author and a willing contributor. Ron
Re: [Origami] Protocol for permission from deceased paperfolders
(This post was OK'd, in error, by one of the list admin gang; since it came from a Yahoo account, delivery failed to a great many, but not all, list members, so some of you will see this twice. Sorry 'bout that!) Forwarded on behalf of Laura Rozenberg, sea4...@yahoo.com. >" Regarding Ligiya Montoya copyright. This is more difficult as some of her >models are in Robert Harbin books.." The correct spelling is Ligia Montoya. (In Spanish the "gi" is pronounced like "he". The "accent" is in the first syllable LI-gia, not Li-GIA as I often hear from English-speaking people.) >How does the compensation agreement that Harbin had with Montoya (if any) >impact future sales of the Harbin works with her models? Ligia sent Harbin folded models along with her letters. Sometimes she included some directions. Harbin picked up some of these models and requested Ligia if he could publish them in his books. Ligia accepted, no money involved, in other words, she gave him permission. I don't think she was t happy with the deal, but given the fact that she was so far away and that she would not publish a book on her own, she was comforted with the idea that at least some of her works would see the light in the broader sense of the term. Ligia also gave Sam Randlett permission to publish some of her creations. Important to note is that the diagrams in Bob's and Sam's books are not Ligia's diagrams. Bob and Sam reversed fold Ligia's models and diagrammed from there. Laura Rozenberg
Re: [Origami] Protocol for permission from deceased paperfolders
>" Regarding Ligiya Montoya copyright. This is more difficult as some of her >models are in Robert Harbin books.." The correct spelling is Ligia Montoya. (In Spanish the "gi" is pronounced like "he". The "accent" is in the first syllable LI-gia, not Li-GIA as I often hear from English-speaking people.) >How does the compensation agreement that Harbin had with Montoya (if any) >impact future sales of the Harbin works with her models? Ligia sent Harbin folded models along with her letters. Sometimes she included some directions. Harbin picked up some of these models and requested Ligia if he could publish them in his books. Ligia accepted, no money involved, in other words, she gave him permission. I don't think she was t happy with the deal, but given the fact that she was so far away and that she would not publish a book on her own, she was comforted with the idea that at least some of her works would see the light in the broader sense of the term. Ligia also gave Sam Randlett permission to publish some of her creations. Important to note is that the diagrams in Bob's and Sam's books are not Ligia's diagrams. Bob and Sam reversed fold Ligia's models and diagrammed from there. Laura Rozenberg
Re: [Origami] Protocol for permission from deceased paperfolders
Nigel said: " Regarding Ligiya Montoya copyright. This is more difficult as some of her models are in Robert Harbin books.." How does the compensation agreement that Harbin had with Montoya (if any) impact future sales of the Harbin works with her models? That is, if you hold the copyright to publish a deceased author's works, do the contributors to that original work effectively forfeit compensation or discretion in how their designs are distributed? I can see how complicated this could get, given that many origami books contain models from many designers. How do you consider publication or distribution (or restriction thereof) of Harbin's works with respect to the contributors? By the way, thank you for giving such a well-informed answer! It's terrific that you have developed a system for handling this sort of thing; it's refreshing to know there are solutions in place to handle it. Now I'm off to determine if i can publish a book of Nick Robinson's models as my own designs if I change the coloured side on each model to the opposite, and claim it's transformational instead of derivative. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [Origami] Protocol for permission from deceased paperfolders
From: Nigel A Elworthy It would help greatly if there was a database of copyright holders somewhere. US registered (necessary for legal action) copyright records search/info can be accessed at http://www.copyright.gov/records/ kdiannesteph...@gmail.com
Re: [Origami] Protocol for permission from deceased paperfolders
From: Rob Hudson selling Robert Harbin Angelfish on Etsy.. I want to sell Ligiya Montoya parrots as earrings and include instructions. Those who believe the rights to intellectual property persist and are inheritable... Hi Rob and All, It's often difficult to find next of kin and copyright owners of deceased designers. Intellectual property is inheritable and during my time as PR officer for the BOS I had several questions about this. Not always answered easily or at all. It would help greatly if there was a database of copyright holders somewhere. However for your information, both Robert Harbin and Eric Kennaway bequeathed their copyrights to The British Origami Society. The society still receives small royalty payments on book sales. If you where selling their models and it came to our notice, we would probably ask you to stop. There are four trustees and I am one of them. The others are: - the current BOS Chairman, Mark Bolitho, the current magazine editor, Tung Ken Lam and Mick Guy. If you want to enquire about using Robert Harbin and Eric Kennaway models please contact the secretary via our web page www.britishorigami.info He will pass on the information. Copyright permissions are granted (or denied.) by majority vote of the four trustees. We are in contact with Dave Lister's family. They have indicated that we might be requested to handle copyright on his material. Regarding Ligiya Montoya copyright. This is more difficult as some of her models are in Robert Harbin books. BOS holds copyright on the books but not on individual models. Generally if your making money out of somebody's design without their permission or that of the copyright holder, it's probably best not to. Regards, Nigel Elworthy.
[Origami] Protocol for permission from deceased paperfolders
I've read the copyright and decorum threads here since I started with the O-List nearly 20 years ago (God, I'm old!), but I've never gotten a grip on the protocol and legality of using the models of passed paperfolders (not necessarily the diagrams; those are a separate copyright issue IIRC). I know some laws vary by nationality, but there seems to be a general consensus, at least in our community, that we should voluntarily do certain things in order to get permission to use a model. Or risk, I assume, the censure of the origami community? Lawsuits from the estate? Does it matter whose models are used? I'd suppose that selling Yoshizawa butterflies at a museum gift shop without permission would garner more ire than, say, selling Robert Harbin Angelfish on Etsy. Philosophically, once a person has died, and having no direction specified to next of kin regarding the usage of models and designs, should the discretion, usage, and ownership (ethically) pass to the next of kin or legal inheritor of the estate? If by some horrifying twist of fate, the legacy of Dave Brill is legally granted to his long-estranged and unknown son, Rob Hudson, should Hudson now have the right to stick googly eyes on the Brill tree fairies and sell them for a nickel a piece at a gaudy flea market? To return to a little more structure, let me use an example. I want to sell Ligiya Montoya parrots as earrings and include instructions that I drew with some paper so the buyers could make their own pair. Ligiya Montoya is deceased. Should I worry about copyright law on ancient models, and further, how that law works in her native country, Argentina? Or internationally? I *may* be in violation ,but legal consequences are remote. Will the "community" censure me? If I skip the law and try to contact her family or estate for permission, whom am I satisfying? Those who consider that once a designer has passed, their work should now be available to be used, would be okay with it. Those who believe the rights to intellectual property persist and are inheritable would be upset if I didn't bother, or inquired, was rejected, and did what I wanted to anyway. Who are the moral authorities here? How would the O-List react? How would the organizations and origami luminaries in a position to influence perception of folders react?
