Re: [OT] Quiet

[mike smith]

http://s3.crashworks.org.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/if-programming-languages-were-vehicles/

I've got the APV

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Bec Carter  wrote:

> JS is still ugly to me no matter what the hipsters says
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Joseph Cooney 
> wrote:
>
>> Looking at data like http://langpop.corger.nl it seems like c# is alive
>> and well. Java, PHP and JS are really the only languages of similar
>> popularity. I imagine JS will probably pull ahead as more stuff goes to
>> node, or server-side presentation logic moves to the client.
>>
>> Joseph
>> On Sep 19, 2014 10:15 AM, "William Luu"  wrote:
>>
>>> Tech moves quickly.
>>>
>>> But C# is far from "legacy", it is a mature, yet still evolving language.
>>>
>>> C# 6 is coming - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dn683793.aspx
>>> and
>>> http://roslyn.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=CSharp%20Language%20Design%20Notes&referringTitle=Documentation
>>> And some short videos on it -
>>> https://www.wintellectnow.com/course/detail/what-s-new-in-c-6-visual-basic-dotnet-14-and-visual-studio-14
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 September 2014 10:01, Bec Carter  wrote:
>>>
 Just the other day a friend of mine mentioned how at a meeting with the
 big guns at her office they were referring to C# as "legacy". Am I now the
 new VB6 equivalent? N. Help.


 On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?
>>
>
> Indeed I was thinking that in recent weeks. Either .NET is obsolete
> and no one wants to talk about it, or after a decade in the group everyone
> is now a ninja guru and have no questions.
>
>
>> Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?
>>
>
> No surface, however I was going to take my wife's brand new iPad to a
> meeting today to take notes, but I couldn't even figure out to close a
> browser window on it, so I'll come back to the idea later.
>
> *Greg*
>
>
>

>>>
>


-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

Re: [OT] Angular and Durandal Converge

[Bec Carter]

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Stephen Price 
wrote:

>  It's Friday guys. I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose a
> change to the [OT] “rules” of our OzDotNet Elist.
>
> We have a couple of hundred people still here, but the traffic is low.
> Possibly due to outsourcing to StackOverflow? Anyway, my proposal is we all
> relax the [OT] rules. If its a post on anything that you think might
> interest everyone/anyone on the list, lets not put [OT]. One could even
> argue that .Net posts should have the [OT] flag on them? Hehehe
>
> Things like religion, politics, and Greg’s experience of “Did you just
> feel that earthquake” should probably keep the [OT] flag, but it its
> anything to do with Tech or Dev, then it's on topic. Otherwise we risk
> dwindling into extinction. Myself this week I’ve gotten two epic tips on my
> Surface from a casual [OT] thread I would have otherwise missed out on. I'm
> staying and think you guys are awesome. Long live OzDotNet.
>

This list has become legacy it seems... perhaps I am a dinosaur now, the
same sort of dinosaur I used to fight against a few years ago who wanted to
stick with VBA and Access forever :(


>
> Regarding Angular, I've heard about it, seen it at a few talks, but so far
> not used it.  Have been using Kendo UI and JQuery in my MVC apps. I
> sometimes feel there are so many tools and libraries its hard to keep up on
> them all. Gotta pick a couple and use them. It's usually the ones that
> Microsoft put in Project templates that I run with. How do everyone else
> choose?
>

In most instances I "choose" by following the company's law of "thou shalt
use X". I call myself a wolf though, just for kicks


>
> Sent from Surface
>
> *From:* Nic Roche 
> *Sent:* ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎03‎ ‎AM
> *To:* ozDotNet 
>
> Hi,
>
>
> This may seem _right_ off topic, but Rob Eisenburg is well known in WPF/JS
> circles and Angular is well worth looking at:
>
> http://blog.angularjs.org/2014/04/angular-and-durandal-converge.html
>
>
> Nic
>

Re: [OT] Quiet

[Bec Carter]

JS is still ugly to me no matter what the hipsters says


On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Joseph Cooney 
wrote:

> Looking at data like http://langpop.corger.nl it seems like c# is alive
> and well. Java, PHP and JS are really the only languages of similar
> popularity. I imagine JS will probably pull ahead as more stuff goes to
> node, or server-side presentation logic moves to the client.
>
> Joseph
> On Sep 19, 2014 10:15 AM, "William Luu"  wrote:
>
>> Tech moves quickly.
>>
>> But C# is far from "legacy", it is a mature, yet still evolving language.
>>
>> C# 6 is coming - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dn683793.aspx
>> and
>> http://roslyn.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=CSharp%20Language%20Design%20Notes&referringTitle=Documentation
>> And some short videos on it -
>> https://www.wintellectnow.com/course/detail/what-s-new-in-c-6-visual-basic-dotnet-14-and-visual-studio-14
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19 September 2014 10:01, Bec Carter  wrote:
>>
>>> Just the other day a friend of mine mentioned how at a meeting with the
>>> big guns at her office they were referring to C# as "legacy". Am I now the
>>> new VB6 equivalent? N. Help.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>>>
 Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?
>

 Indeed I was thinking that in recent weeks. Either .NET is obsolete and
 no one wants to talk about it, or after a decade in the group everyone is
 now a ninja guru and have no questions.


> Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?
>

 No surface, however I was going to take my wife's brand new iPad to a
 meeting today to take notes, but I couldn't even figure out to close a
 browser window on it, so I'll come back to the idea later.

 *Greg*



>>>
>>

RE: [OT] Angular and Durandal Converge

[Paul Glavich]

Angular is the new black.

 

We have adopted it as our new JS framework. It is really very good and is 
building a fantastic base on which to move JS forward in big ways (and client 
side web dev in general). Rob Eisenburg is quite experienced when it comes to 
SPA’s (Single page apps) and client side libraries and for him to believe in 
Angular says quite a lot. We use it in conjunction with jQuery and it works 
very well, in addition to solving some really hard problems and also moving 
towards the future with potential support for Web Components coming 
(https://www.infinum.co/the-capsized-eight/articles/web-components-building-blocks-of-the-future-web
 and http://www.w3.org/TR/components-intro/ ) through its current directive 
implementation (with which you can do a web component style design as it 
stands).

 

Very powerful stuff and moving ahead at great pace. I did a preso at teched 
last year on it here: 
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/TechEd/Australia/2013/DEV331

Which gives you a decent “world view” of what it can do.

 

-  Glav

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 11:13 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Angular and Durandal Converge

 

It's Friday guys. I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose a change to 
the [OT] “rules” of our OzDotNet Elist.

 

We have a couple of hundred people still here, but the traffic is low. Possibly 
due to outsourcing to StackOverflow? Anyway, my proposal is we all relax the 
[OT] rules. If its a post on anything that you think might interest 
everyone/anyone on the list, lets not put [OT]. One could even argue that .Net 
posts should have the [OT] flag on them? Hehehe

 

Things like religion, politics, and Greg’s experience of “Did you just feel 
that earthquake” should probably keep the [OT] flag, but it its anything to do 
with Tech or Dev, then it's on topic. Otherwise we risk dwindling into 
extinction. Myself this week I’ve gotten two epic tips on my Surface from a 
casual [OT] thread I would have otherwise missed out on. I'm staying and think 
you guys are awesome. Long live OzDotNet. 

 

Regarding Angular, I've heard about it, seen it at a few talks, but so far not 
used it.  Have been using Kendo UI and JQuery in my MVC apps. I sometimes feel 
there are so many tools and libraries its hard to keep up on them all. Gotta 
pick a couple and use them. It's usually the ones that Microsoft put in Project 
templates that I run with. How do everyone else choose?

 

Sent from Surface

 

From: Nic Roche  
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎03‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet  

 

Hi,

 

 

This may seem _right_ off topic, but Rob Eisenburg is well known in WPF/JS 
circles and Angular is well worth looking at:

 

http://blog.angularjs.org/2014/04/angular-and-durandal-converge.html

 

 

Nic

Re: [OT] Quiet

[Joseph Cooney]

Looking at data like http://langpop.corger.nl it seems like c# is alive and
well. Java, PHP and JS are really the only languages of similar popularity.
I imagine JS will probably pull ahead as more stuff goes to node, or
server-side presentation logic moves to the client.

Joseph
On Sep 19, 2014 10:15 AM, "William Luu"  wrote:

> Tech moves quickly.
>
> But C# is far from "legacy", it is a mature, yet still evolving language.
>
> C# 6 is coming - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dn683793.aspx
> and
> http://roslyn.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=CSharp%20Language%20Design%20Notes&referringTitle=Documentation
> And some short videos on it -
> https://www.wintellectnow.com/course/detail/what-s-new-in-c-6-visual-basic-dotnet-14-and-visual-studio-14
>
>
>
>
> On 19 September 2014 10:01, Bec Carter  wrote:
>
>> Just the other day a friend of mine mentioned how at a meeting with the
>> big guns at her office they were referring to C# as "legacy". Am I now the
>> new VB6 equivalent? N. Help.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>>
>>> Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

>>>
>>> Indeed I was thinking that in recent weeks. Either .NET is obsolete and
>>> no one wants to talk about it, or after a decade in the group everyone is
>>> now a ninja guru and have no questions.
>>>
>>>
 Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

>>>
>>> No surface, however I was going to take my wife's brand new iPad to a
>>> meeting today to take notes, but I couldn't even figure out to close a
>>> browser window on it, so I'll come back to the idea later.
>>>
>>> *Greg*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [OT] Quiet

[Andrew McGrath]

I am in a bit of a bind at the moment on whether to stick with .NET or make the 
JavaScript jump.

Over many years I have built a platform (including drag and drop designer, code 
editor, intellisense, CodeDOM/Roslyn etc - integrated debugging to come soon) 
on top of an Israeli-founded, Citrix (and Microsoft I believe) funded .NET 
WinForm on the web controls provider. I had a conference call with them (they 
are in Boston now) for an hour in late April. I showed them how my platform 
negated the need for their paid "Professional" edition and that for many use 
cases people could just use my platform with their free Express edition - this 
aspect is a side-effect of the platform rather than the main purpose.

When their next release came out in early July they had stopped providing their 
free Express edition and promised an announcement. Anyway last week they 
announced they had zombified their existing company, formed a new company, 
transferred all staff to the new company, made their controls free for everyone 
whilst slapping on new licensing conditions to say you couldn't create a 
platform that generates systems and competes with them.

Fortunately in June on Twitter I found a link to a Telerik beta program for a 
javascript to native iOS/Android open source toolkit they are developing 
(NativeScript). So I signed up. This allows me to create native iOS apps with 
out requiring a MacBook. They are releasing under Apache 2.0 and when I asked 
if they would pull the rug out from under any platform built on top of it they 
have emphatically said no. They are currently getting Angular and other 
JavaScript frameworks working with these controls.

I have also made enquiries to Xamarin with regards OEM-ing their compiler and 
frameworks but have not received any response other than being added to the 
Xamarin Forms beta when it was live.

One possibility is to migrate the WinForms on the web capability to be ASP.NET 
based but I am fearful that Xamarin might be restrictive in their licensing too 
for the native device side of things.

So it seems a full-blown shift away from .NET to JavaScript is on the cards. 
Some tools like edgejs which allows interoperability between javascript and 
.NET might be useful at least during the transition.

The issue is that regardless of what any other toolset or platform provides, 
the need for continuous enhancement of the underlying platform to create and 
maintain competitive advantage in the marketplace is making relatively 
closed-shop .NET control providers untenable.

Andrew


From: "Stephen Price" 
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 12:14 PM
To: "ozDotNet" 
Subject: Re: [OT] Quiet


So that sounds like dll hell will become framework/runtime hell?

Seriously though, the future of C# is strong from what I've seen. Xamarin 
supports C# for targeting IOS and Android. Unity supports C# as a scripting 
language for writing games. I am hopeful but my Silverlight burns are still 
healing.
Actually, regarding Silverlight, as a plug in it's gone yeah (it's dead to me), 
but Xaml is alive and well. No one seems to be talking about that.

Making a Difference
Perth, Western Australia+61 (0) 428 028 599step...@lythixdesigns.com 
@lythixdesigns | @lyynxwww.lythixdesigns.comwww.linkedin.com/in/lyynx
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 10:04 AM, David Kean  wrote:

We still very much focused on .NET. We've had our head down working on a bunch 
of things over the past 3 years; my two favorite things coming up that I 
believe  will completely change .NET:



.NET Native

ASP.NET vNext (in particular "CoreCLR")



There is something very common with both these; a thin componentized 
framework/runtime that ships with your app. Being componentized, we can release 
and version  individual libraries without requiring us to update one giant 
framework. Similar to what we did with Roslyn (the rewritten C#/VB compilers), 
these changes set us up long term to make larger investments without the 
compatibility concern that comes with shipping  a update to 1.8 billion 
machines.



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Harris
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:43 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Quiet



Hi All,



Warning long Friday rant to follow.



In summary the rumours of the demise of C#/.Net are very premature, but keep an 
eye on the patient, health may be slowly declining.





When I was first at Uni (79-81) the business programming subject taught us 
COBOL along with a few home truths about COBOL such as:

1)  COBOL is the single most popular language by a large margin.

2)  There are now better languages available, so COBOL will soon start 
reducing its market share.

3)  This will take some time because of the huge investment in existing 
COBOL programs.

4)  Do not expect many new projects to start that use COBOL in the next few 
years.



In 20/20 vision hind

Re: [OT] Quiet

[Stephen Price]

So that sounds like dll hell will become framework/runtime hell?



Seriously though, the future of C# is strong from what I've seen. Xamarin
supports C# for targeting IOS and Android. Unity supports C# as a scripting
language for writing games.
I am hopeful but my Silverlight burns are still healing.

Actually, regarding Silverlight, as a plug in it's gone yeah (it's dead to
me), but Xaml is alive and well. No one seems to be talking about that.




Making a Difference

Perth, Western Australia
+61 (0) 428 028 599
step...@lythixdesigns.com
@lythixdesigns | @lyynx
www.lythixdesigns.com
www.linkedin.com/in/lyynx

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 10:04 AM, David Kean 
wrote:

>  We still very much focused on .NET. We’ve had our head down working on a
> bunch of things over the past 3 years; my two favorite things coming up
> that I believe will completely change .NET:
>
>
>
> .NET Native
>
> ASP.NET vNext (in particular “CoreCLR”)
>
>
>
> There is something very common with both these; a thin componentized
> framework/runtime that ships with your app. Being componentized, we can
> release and version individual libraries without requiring us to update one
> giant framework. Similar to what we did with Roslyn (the rewritten C#/VB
> compilers), these changes set us up long term to make larger investments
> without the compatibility concern that comes with shipping a update to 1.8
> billion machines.
>
>
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Harris
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:43 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Quiet
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Warning long Friday rant to follow…
>
>
>
> In summary the rumours of the demise of C#/.Net are very premature, but
> keep an eye on the patient, health may be slowly declining.
>
>
>
> 
>
> When I was first at Uni (79-81) the business programming subject taught us
> COBOL along with a few home truths about COBOL such as:
>
> 1)  COBOL is the single most popular language by a large margin.
>
> 2)  There are now better languages available, so COBOL will soon
> start reducing its market share.
>
> 3)  This will take some time because of the huge investment in
> existing COBOL programs.
>
> 4)  Do not expect many new projects to start that use COBOL in the
> next few years.
>
>
>
> In 20/20 vision hindsight, it is interesting to review this:
>
>
>
> Point 1: Correct.
>
>
>
> Point 2: The languages that were going to replace COBOL were
> Pascal/Modular, ADA, or maybe C (but just for highly technical low level
> code).  Today, the only one of those languages to have any remaining
> traction is C.
>
> Analysis: The other languages ready to replace COBOL were not yet ready.
>
>
>
> Point 3: Correct, but it took a lot longer than expected.
>
>
>
> Point 4: Where (in my experience) it was probably about 1993, a full ten
> years later where COBOL stopped being used in new projects.  This was
> because there were a lot of shops that had a large COBOL library and COBOL
> team, so the new projects took leverage off that base.
>
> Analysis: The installed base created a huge inertia and slowed the process
> down by at least 10 years.
>
>
>
> Today, if you look at what languages are most popular, there is no one
> language to lead them all like there was back in the 1970’s / 80’s,
> depending on the site you look at, the top few will include Java, PHP,
> C/C++/Objective-C, C#, VB/Basic/VB.Net, Python, Javascript, Ruby.  The
> difference today is there is no clear single leader.
>
> Looking at
> https://sites.google.com/site/pydatalog/pypl/PyPL-PopularitY-of-Programming-Language
>
> 1)  Python is the language most in ascendancy.
>
> 2)  Perl, Basic and C++ look to all be in clear decline.
>
> 3)  Java is the head of the pack, staying consistently at the top,
> but not by a large margin.
>
> 4)  It is hard to read the graph, but it looks like C# continues on
> reasonable growth.
>
> 5)  But C# has just lost position 3 to Python.
>
>
>
> So what is my analysis of the future of C#/.Net?
>
> 1)  The large volume of C#/.Net developers and code library will
> provide a large inertia, but nowhere near as large as what COBOL had.
>
> 2)  C# is one of many C/Java derivative languages, the cost of
> porting your program/skills from C# to another language is a lot less than
> the cost of porting programs/skills from COBOL.
>
> 3)  COBOL was owned by the community, C#/.Net is owned by Microsoft,
> so C#/.Net is at the mercy of Microsoft’s wisdom (or lack of it).
>
> 4)  Microsoft has shown a colossal lack of management skill when you
> look at the complete train wreck that was the mismanagement of Silverlight!
>
> 5)  Microsoft is a large legacy company, even with poor management,
> it will not go away any day soon (look at the reducing dominance of IBM for
> a similar example of durability).
>
> 6)  It is too early to say if Satya Nadella (new MS C

RE: [OT] Quiet

[David Kean]

We still very much focused on .NET. We’ve had our head down working on a bunch 
of things over the past 3 years; my two favorite things coming up that I 
believe will completely change .NET:

.NET Native
ASP.NET vNext (in particular “CoreCLR”)

There is something very common with both these; a thin componentized 
framework/runtime that ships with your app. Being componentized, we can release 
and version individual libraries without requiring us to update one giant 
framework. Similar to what we did with Roslyn (the rewritten C#/VB compilers), 
these changes set us up long term to make larger investments without the 
compatibility concern that comes with shipping a update to 1.8 billion machines.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Harris
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:43 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Quiet

Hi All,

Warning long Friday rant to follow…

In summary the rumours of the demise of C#/.Net are very premature, but keep an 
eye on the patient, health may be slowly declining.


When I was first at Uni (79-81) the business programming subject taught us 
COBOL along with a few home truths about COBOL such as:
1)  COBOL is the single most popular language by a large margin.
2)  There are now better languages available, so COBOL will soon start 
reducing its market share.
3)  This will take some time because of the huge investment in existing 
COBOL programs.
4)  Do not expect many new projects to start that use COBOL in the next few 
years.

In 20/20 vision hindsight, it is interesting to review this:

Point 1: Correct.

Point 2: The languages that were going to replace COBOL were Pascal/Modular, 
ADA, or maybe C (but just for highly technical low level code).  Today, the 
only one of those languages to have any remaining traction is C.
Analysis: The other languages ready to replace COBOL were not yet ready.

Point 3: Correct, but it took a lot longer than expected.

Point 4: Where (in my experience) it was probably about 1993, a full ten years 
later where COBOL stopped being used in new projects.  This was because there 
were a lot of shops that had a large COBOL library and COBOL team, so the new 
projects took leverage off that base.
Analysis: The installed base created a huge inertia and slowed the process down 
by at least 10 years.

Today, if you look at what languages are most popular, there is no one language 
to lead them all like there was back in the 1970’s / 80’s, depending on the 
site you look at, the top few will include Java, PHP, C/C++/Objective-C, C#, 
VB/Basic/VB.Net, Python, Javascript, Ruby.  The difference today is there is no 
clear single leader.
Looking at 
https://sites.google.com/site/pydatalog/pypl/PyPL-PopularitY-of-Programming-Language
1)  Python is the language most in ascendancy.
2)  Perl, Basic and C++ look to all be in clear decline.
3)  Java is the head of the pack, staying consistently at the top, but not 
by a large margin.
4)  It is hard to read the graph, but it looks like C# continues on 
reasonable growth.
5)  But C# has just lost position 3 to Python.

So what is my analysis of the future of C#/.Net?
1)  The large volume of C#/.Net developers and code library will provide a 
large inertia, but nowhere near as large as what COBOL had.
2)  C# is one of many C/Java derivative languages, the cost of porting your 
program/skills from C# to another language is a lot less than the cost of 
porting programs/skills from COBOL.
3)  COBOL was owned by the community, C#/.Net is owned by Microsoft, so 
C#/.Net is at the mercy of Microsoft’s wisdom (or lack of it).
4)  Microsoft has shown a colossal lack of management skill when you look 
at the complete train wreck that was the mismanagement of Silverlight!
5)  Microsoft is a large legacy company, even with poor management, it will 
not go away any day soon (look at the reducing dominance of IBM for a similar 
example of durability).
6)  It is too early to say if Satya Nadella (new MS CEO) is going to make 
changes that will support the future of C#/.Net, but we can be sure that his 
primary focus will be the wellbeing of the company not the wellbeing of C#/.Net 
programmers!
7)  Microsoft is closing its Research lab in Silicon Valley 
(http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-to-close-microsoft-research-lab-in-silicon-valley-733838/)
 they are clearly making bold management decisions, some of these bold 
decisions will affect the future of C#/.Net but it is too early to see how.
Conclusion, if Microsoft do nothing to help C#/.Net it has only another 5 years 
life, but Microsoft are not going to do that as they too have a huge investment 
in C#/.Net which should give it at least another 5 years life.  Anyone trying 
to look forward more than 5 years in this industry is being optimistic at best! 
 So I would say that C#/.Net has a good prognosis for the foreseeable future, 
but keep

Re: [OT] Quiet

[Greg Harris]

Hi All,



Warning long Friday rant to follow…



In summary the rumours of the demise of C#/.Net are very premature, but
keep an eye on the patient, health may be slowly declining.





When I was first at Uni (79-81) the business programming subject taught us
COBOL along with a few home truths about COBOL such as:

1)  COBOL is the single most popular language by a large margin.

2)  There are now better languages available, so COBOL will soon start
reducing its market share.

3)  This will take some time because of the huge investment in existing
COBOL programs.

4)  Do not expect many new projects to start that use COBOL in the next
few years.



In 20/20 vision hindsight, it is interesting to review this:



Point 1: Correct.



Point 2: The languages that were going to replace COBOL were
Pascal/Modular, ADA, or maybe C (but just for highly technical low level
code).  Today, the only one of those languages to have any remaining
traction is C.

Analysis: The other languages ready to replace COBOL were not yet ready.



Point 3: Correct, but it took a lot longer than expected.



Point 4: Where (in my experience) it was probably about 1993, a full ten
years later where COBOL stopped being used in new projects.  This was
because there were a lot of shops that had a large COBOL library and COBOL
team, so the new projects took leverage off that base.

Analysis: The installed base created a huge inertia and slowed the process
down by at least 10 years.



Today, if you look at what languages are most popular, there is no one
language to lead them all like there was back in the 1970’s / 80’s,
depending on the site you look at, the top few will include Java, PHP,
C/C++/Objective-C, C#, VB/Basic/VB.Net, Python, Javascript, Ruby.  The
difference today is there is no clear single leader.

Looking at
https://sites.google.com/site/pydatalog/pypl/PyPL-PopularitY-of-Programming-Language

1)  Python is the language most in ascendancy.

2)  Perl, Basic and C++ look to all be in clear decline.

3)  Java is the head of the pack, staying consistently at the top, but
not by a large margin.

4)  It is hard to read the graph, but it looks like C# continues on
reasonable growth.

5)  But C# has just lost position 3 to Python.



So what is my analysis of the future of C#/.Net?

1)  The large volume of C#/.Net developers and code library will
provide a large inertia, but nowhere near as large as what COBOL had.

2)  C# is one of many C/Java derivative languages, the cost of porting
your program/skills from C# to another language is a lot less than the cost
of porting programs/skills from COBOL.

3)  COBOL was owned by the community, C#/.Net is owned by Microsoft, so
C#/.Net is at the mercy of Microsoft’s wisdom (or lack of it).

4)  Microsoft has shown a colossal lack of management skill when you
look at the complete train wreck that was the mismanagement of Silverlight!

5)  Microsoft is a large legacy company, even with poor management, it
will not go away any day soon (look at the reducing dominance of IBM for a
similar example of durability).

6)  It is too early to say if Satya Nadella (new MS CEO) is going to
make changes that will support the future of C#/.Net, but we can be sure
that his primary focus will be the wellbeing of the company not the
wellbeing of C#/.Net programmers!

7)  Microsoft is closing its Research lab in Silicon Valley (
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-to-close-microsoft-research-lab-in-silicon-valley-733838/)
they are clearly making bold management decisions, some of these bold
decisions will affect the future of C#/.Net but it is too early to see how.

Conclusion, if Microsoft do nothing to help C#/.Net it has only another 5
years life, but Microsoft are not going to do that as they too have a huge
investment in C#/.Net which should give it at least another 5 years life.
Anyone trying to look forward more than 5 years in this industry is being
optimistic at best!  So I would say that C#/.Net has a good prognosis for
the foreseeable future, but keep an eye out for the unexpected, which could
be positive or negative.





Regards

Greg Harris

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 10:30 AM, David Connors  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Bec Carter 
> wrote:
>
>> Just the other day a friend of mine mentioned how at a meeting with the
>> big guns at her office they were referring to C# as "legacy". Am I now the
>> new VB6 equivalent? N. Help.
>>
>
> Probably a fair call. .NET has just been tinkered with for the better part
> of a decade.
>
> It is impossible to make sense out of Microsoft's client platform strategy
> any more ... and with the move to cloud they probably don't care anyway.
>
> David.
>

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

Yep, I can see how that'd be useful. 


Myself, I've avoided vm's as much as I have been able to. Never liked feeling 
like I was missing out of the performance of running on the metal. Since Azure 
vm's though I've created many throw away vm's tho. Spin one up do stuff on it, 
then delete it. I usually delete them because two months later I have forgotten 
what the hell it was created for. Get worried there might be something 
important on it. lol


They need a Description box on a VM in Azure so you can put some info on what 
it's for. Especially when your naming is not descriptive enough. Might see if I 
can feed that back somewhere…






Sent from Surface





From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎18‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet






I have a few hundred GB of VMs, plus another few hundred GB of setup files. Not 
really suitable to access that all from Dropbox et al J 

 

So, this is geared towards people who need to carry stuff around with them

 



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 11:09 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

 



I did a search yesterday for mSata enclosures. Was briefly excited and then 
realised that the only time I use my current USB3 2.5” drive is when I need to 
do a backup of something using Acronis. (love Acronis, especially being able to 
boot it from a USB and back something up with no OS running). All my stuff is 
on dropbox which I can get at from anywhere. I feel USB devices are now the 
occasional tool rather than the everyday tool of a few years ago. 


Still, you can't hold the cloud in your hand. *torn*



 


Sent from Surface


 



From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎01‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet


 



FWIW, this is the mSATA enclosure I got: 
http://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-AT-ENCKIT-Atlas-mSATA-Enclosure/dp/B00GQV1VFA/

(ordered from RamCity in Brissie but the above link has pictures). Coupled with 
Samsung 840 EVO mSata SSD.

 

I used to think a 2.5” enclosure was relatively small. Now, my 2.5” enclosures 
look positively old-school.

Re: [OT] Angular and Durandal Converge

[Stephen Price]

It's Friday guys. I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose a change to 
the [OT] “rules” of our OzDotNet Elist.


We have a couple of hundred people still here, but the traffic is low. Possibly 
due to outsourcing to StackOverflow? Anyway, my proposal is we all relax the 
[OT] rules. If its a post on anything that you think might interest 
everyone/anyone on the list, lets not put [OT]. One could even argue that .Net 
posts should have the [OT] flag on them? Hehehe



Things like religion, politics, and Greg’s experience of “Did you just feel 
that earthquake” should probably keep the [OT] flag, but it its anything to do 
with Tech or Dev, then it's on topic. Otherwise we risk dwindling into 
extinction. Myself this week I’ve gotten two epic tips on my Surface from a 
casual [OT] thread I would have otherwise missed out on. I'm staying and think 
you guys are awesome. Long live OzDotNet. 




Regarding Angular, I've heard about it, seen it at a few talks, but so far not 
used it.  Have been using Kendo UI and JQuery in my MVC apps. I sometimes feel 
there are so many tools and libraries its hard to keep up on them all. Gotta 
pick a couple and use them. It's usually the ones that Microsoft put in Project 
templates that I run with. How do everyone else choose?




Sent from Surface





From: Nic Roche
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎03‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet






Hi,







This may seem _right_ off topic, but Rob Eisenburg is well known in WPF/JS 
circles and Angular is well worth looking at:




http://blog.angularjs.org/2014/04/angular-and-durandal-converge.html







Nic

RE: [OT] Surface

[Ken Schaefer]

I have a few hundred GB of VMs, plus another few hundred GB of setup files. Not 
really suitable to access that all from Dropbox et al ☺

So, this is geared towards people who need to carry stuff around with them

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 11:09 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

I did a search yesterday for mSata enclosures. Was briefly excited and then 
realised that the only time I use my current USB3 2.5” drive is when I need to 
do a backup of something using Acronis. (love Acronis, especially being able to 
boot it from a USB and back something up with no OS running). All my stuff is 
on dropbox which I can get at from anywhere. I feel USB devices are now the 
occasional tool rather than the everyday tool of a few years ago.
Still, you can't hold the cloud in your hand. *torn*

Sent from Surface

From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎01‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet

FWIW, this is the mSATA enclosure I got: 
http://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-AT-ENCKIT-Atlas-mSATA-Enclosure/dp/B00GQV1VFA/
(ordered from RamCity in Brissie but the above link has pictures). Coupled with 
Samsung 840 EVO mSata SSD.

I used to think a 2.5” enclosure was relatively small. Now, my 2.5” enclosures 
look positively old-school.

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

I did a search yesterday for mSata enclosures. Was briefly excited and then 
realised that the only time I use my current USB3 2.5” drive is when I need to 
do a backup of something using Acronis. (love Acronis, especially being able to 
boot it from a USB and back something up with no OS running). All my stuff is 
on dropbox which I can get at from anywhere. I feel USB devices are now the 
occasional tool rather than the everyday tool of a few years ago. 

Still, you can't hold the cloud in your hand. *torn*






Sent from Surface





From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎01‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet






FWIW, this is the mSATA enclosure I got: 
http://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-AT-ENCKIT-Atlas-mSATA-Enclosure/dp/B00GQV1VFA/

(ordered from RamCity in Brissie but the above link has pictures). Coupled with 
Samsung 840 EVO mSata SSD.

 

I used to think a 2.5” enclosure was relatively small. Now, my 2.5” enclosures 
look positively old-school.

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 10:52 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

 


Hey Ken,


 


Your post was bugging me. I kept thinking, what dock did he get and why is it 
different to mine? So I turned on my light so I could see better and looked 
closely at the bottom left corner of my dock. I suddenly realised that when I 
had my SP3 in the dock, the lip wasn't holding it right. So I put some pressure 
on the left and right arms and they slid out just like you described. 
Embarrassed to say, I've been using it wrong. Also explains why occasionally it 
stops charging, because it wasn't sat in there right. Thats what you get for 
blindly buying something, not looking at review videos, and using your 
equipement in a dark office with the light off. lol


 


Teaches me I should have read the manual when I got it but my thought was its a 
dock. not that complicated. Actually, I'm not even sure there was a manual. RTFM


Also, the other issue with the quick power up being disabled with Hypervisor on 
has made it so much nicer to use. Press the button and its on. It was a pain 
before. Now have two boot modes. 


 


So this thread has has helped me so much hehe. Thanks guys!! 








Making a Difference


 


Perth, Western Australia


+61 (0) 428 028 599


step...@lythixdesigns.com 


@lythixdesigns | @lyynx


www.lythixdesigns.com


www.linkedin.com/in/lyynx

 


On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:




Not sure which docking station you got – I just put the Surface down, and push 
the left and right “arms” in –the groove at the bottom aligns the SP3.

 

I got the Philips – fully height adjustable (like the Asus), has the USB hub, 
does 60Hz, and has the screen control buttons on the front (Asus has them on 
the rear for some unknown reason). The Philips is also factory calibrated.

 

However, the SP3 can only drive the monitor at 30Hz, even though the monitor’s 
capable of 60Hz

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:04 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface



 


Yep I got the docking station too. 


Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push the 
left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going to break 
something if I miss?


 


If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K UHD 
3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I got my 
Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's amazing. Well on 
paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but perhaps one day. 


 


On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:




I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if you’re 
going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes, it’s great 
if you need/want tablet functionality.

 

If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.

 

I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a 
negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real 
estate.

I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can get a 
1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small – probably 
about the size of two large USB keys.

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bec Carter
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface

 


Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?


 


Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

[OT] Angular and Durandal Converge

[Nic Roche]

Hi,

This may seem _right_ off topic, but Rob Eisenburg is well known in WPF/JS 
circles and Angular is well worth looking at:
http://blog.angularjs.org/2014/04/angular-and-durandal-converge.html

Nic   

RE: [OT] Surface

[Ken Schaefer]

FWIW, this is the mSATA enclosure I got: 
http://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-AT-ENCKIT-Atlas-mSATA-Enclosure/dp/B00GQV1VFA/
(ordered from RamCity in Brissie but the above link has pictures). Coupled with 
Samsung 840 EVO mSata SSD.

I used to think a 2.5” enclosure was relatively small. Now, my 2.5” enclosures 
look positively old-school.



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 10:52 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

Hey Ken,

Your post was bugging me. I kept thinking, what dock did he get and why is it 
different to mine? So I turned on my light so I could see better and looked 
closely at the bottom left corner of my dock. I suddenly realised that when I 
had my SP3 in the dock, the lip wasn't holding it right. So I put some pressure 
on the left and right arms and they slid out just like you described. 
Embarrassed to say, I've been using it wrong. Also explains why occasionally it 
stops charging, because it wasn't sat in there right. Thats what you get for 
blindly buying something, not looking at review videos, and using your 
equipement in a dark office with the light off. lol

Teaches me I should have read the manual when I got it but my thought was its a 
dock. not that complicated. Actually, I'm not even sure there was a manual. RTFM
Also, the other issue with the quick power up being disabled with Hypervisor on 
has made it so much nicer to use. Press the button and its on. It was a pain 
before. Now have two boot modes.

So this thread has has helped me so much hehe. Thanks guys!!

Making a Difference

Perth, Western Australia
+61 (0) 428 028 599
step...@lythixdesigns.com
@lythixdesigns | @lyynx
www.lythixdesigns.com
www.linkedin.com/in/lyynx

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Ken Schaefer 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
Not sure which docking station you got – I just put the Surface down, and push 
the left and right “arms” in –the groove at the bottom aligns the SP3.

I got the Philips – fully height adjustable (like the Asus), has the USB hub, 
does 60Hz, and has the screen control buttons on the front (Asus has them on 
the rear for some unknown reason). The Philips is also factory calibrated.

However, the SP3 can only drive the monitor at 30Hz, even though the monitor’s 
capable of 60Hz

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:04 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

Yep I got the docking station too.
Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push the 
left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going to break 
something if I miss?

If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K UHD 
3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I got my 
Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's amazing. Well on 
paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but perhaps one day.

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if you’re 
going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes, it’s great 
if you need/want tablet functionality.

If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.

I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a 
negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real 
estate.
I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can get a 
1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small – probably 
about the size of two large USB keys.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bec Carter
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

Hey Ken,

Your post was bugging me. I kept thinking, what dock did he get and why is
it different to mine? So I turned on my light so I could see better and
looked closely at the bottom left corner of my dock. I suddenly realised
that when I had my SP3 in the dock, the lip wasn't holding it right. So I
put some pressure on the left and right arms and they slid out just like
you described. Embarrassed to say, I've been using it wrong. Also explains
why occasionally it stops charging, because it wasn't sat in there right.
Thats what you get for blindly buying something, not looking at review
videos, and using your equipement in a dark office with the light off. lol

Teaches me I should have read the manual when I got it but my thought was
its a dock. not that complicated. Actually, I'm not even sure there was a
manual. RTFM
Also, the other issue with the quick power up being disabled with
Hypervisor on has made it so much nicer to use. Press the button and its
on. It was a pain before. Now have two boot modes.

So this thread has has helped me so much hehe. Thanks guys!!

Making a Difference

Perth, Western Australia
+61 (0) 428 028 599
step...@lythixdesigns.com
@lythixdesigns | @lyynx
www.lythixdesigns.com
www.linkedin.com/in/lyynx

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  Not sure which docking station you got – I just put the Surface down,
> and push the left and right “arms” in –the groove at the bottom aligns the
> SP3.
>
>
>
> I got the Philips – fully height adjustable (like the Asus), has the USB
> hub, does 60Hz, and has the screen control buttons on the front (Asus has
> them on the rear for some unknown reason). The Philips is also factory
> calibrated.
>
>
>
> However, the SP3 can only drive the monitor at 30Hz, even though the
> monitor’s capable of 60Hz
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
> *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:04 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface
>
>
>
> Yep I got the docking station too.
>
> Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push
> the left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going
> to break something if I miss?
>
>
>
> If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K
> UHD 3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I
> got my Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's
> amazing. Well on paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but
> perhaps one day.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer 
> wrote:
>
>  I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if
> you’re going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes,
> it’s great if you need/want tablet functionality.
>
>
>
> If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.
>
>
>
> I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a
> negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real
> estate.
>
> I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can
> get a 1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small –
> probably about the size of two large USB keys.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Bec Carter
> *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* [OT] Surface
>
>
>
> Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?
>
>
>
> Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?
>
>
>

Re: [OT] Quiet

[David Connors]

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Bec Carter  wrote:

> Just the other day a friend of mine mentioned how at a meeting with the
> big guns at her office they were referring to C# as "legacy". Am I now the
> new VB6 equivalent? N. Help.
>

Probably a fair call. .NET has just been tinkered with for the better part
of a decade.

It is impossible to make sense out of Microsoft's client platform strategy
any more ... and with the move to cloud they probably don't care anyway.

David.

Re: [OT] Quiet

[William Luu]

Tech moves quickly.

But C# is far from "legacy", it is a mature, yet still evolving language.

C# 6 is coming - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dn683793.aspx and
http://roslyn.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=CSharp%20Language%20Design%20Notes&referringTitle=Documentation
And some short videos on it -
https://www.wintellectnow.com/course/detail/what-s-new-in-c-6-visual-basic-dotnet-14-and-visual-studio-14




On 19 September 2014 10:01, Bec Carter  wrote:

> Just the other day a friend of mine mentioned how at a meeting with the
> big guns at her office they were referring to C# as "legacy". Am I now the
> new VB6 equivalent? N. Help.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>
>> Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?
>>>
>>
>> Indeed I was thinking that in recent weeks. Either .NET is obsolete and
>> no one wants to talk about it, or after a decade in the group everyone is
>> now a ninja guru and have no questions.
>>
>>
>>> Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?
>>>
>>
>> No surface, however I was going to take my wife's brand new iPad to a
>> meeting today to take notes, but I couldn't even figure out to close a
>> browser window on it, so I'll come back to the idea later.
>>
>> *Greg*
>>
>>
>>
>

[OT] Quiet

[Bec Carter]

Just the other day a friend of mine mentioned how at a meeting with the big
guns at her office they were referring to C# as "legacy". Am I now the new
VB6 equivalent? N. Help.


On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?
>>
>
> Indeed I was thinking that in recent weeks. Either .NET is obsolete and no
> one wants to talk about it, or after a decade in the group everyone is now
> a ninja guru and have no questions.
>
>
>> Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?
>>
>
> No surface, however I was going to take my wife's brand new iPad to a
> meeting today to take notes, but I couldn't even figure out to close a
> browser window on it, so I'll come back to the idea later.
>
> *Greg*
>
>
>

RE: [OT] Surface

[Piers Williams]

Yeah I have that spec Surface 2 pro for the same reasons (could have
shelled out for an i7 laptop, didn't feel the need)

Must say playing with the 3 (colleague has one) I'm impressed with how much
better the pen input feels over the 2 (which itself is pretty good).
On 18 Sep 2014 08:53, "Mark Thompson"  wrote:

> Probably should have added, mine is the i5 with 8Gb RAM and 256Gb SSD. The
> i7 seemed too expensive to justify, and probably unnecessary for most
> situations.
>
>
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Thompson
> *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:20 AM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface
>
>
>
> I pre-ordered mine through the Microsoft Store with docking station, and
> it works great as a dev machine. Bought 2x mini-displayPort to HDMI
> adapters off eBay for $5 each, and am running two external Full-HD displays
> off it, plus the built-in screen on the Surface. My only complaint with
> this setup is that when running the native text enlargement size (150% I
> think), some apps look ‘blurry’ on the external display – something to do
> with Windows trying to scale the content down to fit I think. Takes a bit
> of getting used to, but dropping the scaling to 100% would make text
> unreadable on the Surface screen.
>
>
>
> Otherwise though, it’s great on the bus for doing light work or watching
> the odd PluralSight course, and I bought an inexpensive 13” laptop bag
> which is big enough to carry the Surface, related cords and a paper
> notebook – everything I need when going to clients, and so much lighter
> than an equivalent laptop setup – one of my justifications for getting the
> Surface in the first place.
>
>
>
> One thing to watch out for if running Visual Studio on it though, is that
> if you install the Windows Phone components, Hyper-V gets enabled and as I
> discovered after much head-scratching, this disables the ‘instant-on’
> feature of the Surface, and reverts it to a ‘resume from hibernate’
> scenario, which means it takes a good 10-15 seconds to get up and running
> when you hit the power button. Google/Bing for a solution, so you can set
> up a dual-boot configuration that enables or disables Hyper-V as required,
> and leave it in the disabled mode unless you really need it and everything
> runs fine!
>
>
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Bec Carter
> *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:11 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* [OT] Surface
>
>
>
> Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?
>
>
>
> Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?
>