Re: [OT] C++ directions

[mike smith]

Still using c++ here... But templates get freaking annoying.   If it's a
new project, I'm unlikely to pick c++.  Even for low level microcontroller
apps, there's better choices.  Eg python.

Mike

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 11:40 David Richards 
wrote:

> I remember when I first started using c++ (late 80s, early 90s, somewhere
> around there) it seemed really cool. Especially after C.  Now, I can't
> imagine ever using it again. To hear how it's changed kind of annoys me for
> nostalgic reasons but ultimately will never have an effect on my daily life.
> If I wanted to go lower than C#, I'd use C. The last time I used C was at
> least 10+ years ago programming microcontrollers for a robot. It's fun in a
> "hardcore mode" kind of way but higher level languages are more satisfying
> in terms of what you can achieve in a reasonable time.
>
> David Richards
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 at 11:18, Greg Harris  wrote:
>
>> If I was going to use C++
>> I would not!
>>
>> I would use C# and use C for the small parts that had to be fast.
>>
>> I have not touched C for 25 years, not going to change
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Greg Harris
>> harris.gre...@gmail.com
>> phone: 0407 942 982
>> Baulkham Hills
>> NSW 2153
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:20 AM Grant Maw  wrote:
>>
>>> I would need a very good reason to choose C++ to write a new project
>>> today, a reason like needing to be close to the metal or needing very
>>> fine-grained control over performance, memory usage, and other resources.
>>> So things like writing a new OS, device drivers, high end computer games
>>> and other graphics-intensive scenarios possibly. But for me that is never,
>>> all my work is LOB stuff.
>>>
>>> .Net core more than satisfies all my current (and foreseeable)
>>> requirements, and takes care of all the internal plumbing for me. I can't
>>> imagine a scenario where I would need something other than c# or f# for the
>>> sort of work I do.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 15:28, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>>>
 Folks, It's quiet in here because I suppose you're all in lockdown
 guarding your mountains of bog-roll. I've got a TGIF contribution...

 A colleague was discussing how to write the most transportable C++ code
 possible and sent links to C++ 17 features
 
 and C++ 20 upcoming.  These
 articles quite shocked and angered me. I wrote C++ for 10 years until about
 2003 (when .NET mercifully replaced it my LOB style work). I quite enjoyed
 C++ at the time, but after looking at those articles I'm quite angry that
 C++ has become one of the worst victims of feature-creep I have ever seen.
 It's like the C++ steering committee are suffering from an inferiority
 complex and have fought back by adding every feature of every other modern
 language into it. It's an insane jumble of the old low-level C-like
 language with bits of LINQ, C#, Rust and Haskell. The syntax of the std::
 libraries is so cryptic it looks like a maths puzzle.

 Just what category of language has C++ become? What is it supposed to
 be best at? Why would I pick C++ to write a LOB app? What does Bjarne think
 about all this?

 There must be a huge number of developers globally using C++, but what
 are they doing with it that requires such a bloated and complex language? I
 haven't met a C++ developer in the last 15 years that can answer that
 question.

 *Greg K*

>>>

Re: [OT] C++ directions

[David Richards]

I remember when I first started using c++ (late 80s, early 90s, somewhere
around there) it seemed really cool. Especially after C.  Now, I can't
imagine ever using it again. To hear how it's changed kind of annoys me for
nostalgic reasons but ultimately will never have an effect on my daily life.
If I wanted to go lower than C#, I'd use C. The last time I used C was at
least 10+ years ago programming microcontrollers for a robot. It's fun in a
"hardcore mode" kind of way but higher level languages are more satisfying
in terms of what you can achieve in a reasonable time.

David Richards


On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 at 11:18, Greg Harris  wrote:

> If I was going to use C++
> I would not!
>
> I would use C# and use C for the small parts that had to be fast.
>
> I have not touched C for 25 years, not going to change
>
> :-)
>
> Greg Harris
> harris.gre...@gmail.com
> phone: 0407 942 982
> Baulkham Hills
> NSW 2153
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:20 AM Grant Maw  wrote:
>
>> I would need a very good reason to choose C++ to write a new project
>> today, a reason like needing to be close to the metal or needing very
>> fine-grained control over performance, memory usage, and other resources.
>> So things like writing a new OS, device drivers, high end computer games
>> and other graphics-intensive scenarios possibly. But for me that is never,
>> all my work is LOB stuff.
>>
>> .Net core more than satisfies all my current (and foreseeable)
>> requirements, and takes care of all the internal plumbing for me. I can't
>> imagine a scenario where I would need something other than c# or f# for the
>> sort of work I do.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 15:28, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>>
>>> Folks, It's quiet in here because I suppose you're all in lockdown
>>> guarding your mountains of bog-roll. I've got a TGIF contribution...
>>>
>>> A colleague was discussing how to write the most transportable C++ code
>>> possible and sent links to C++ 17 features
>>> 
>>> and C++ 20 upcoming.  These
>>> articles quite shocked and angered me. I wrote C++ for 10 years until about
>>> 2003 (when .NET mercifully replaced it my LOB style work). I quite enjoyed
>>> C++ at the time, but after looking at those articles I'm quite angry that
>>> C++ has become one of the worst victims of feature-creep I have ever seen.
>>> It's like the C++ steering committee are suffering from an inferiority
>>> complex and have fought back by adding every feature of every other modern
>>> language into it. It's an insane jumble of the old low-level C-like
>>> language with bits of LINQ, C#, Rust and Haskell. The syntax of the std::
>>> libraries is so cryptic it looks like a maths puzzle.
>>>
>>> Just what category of language has C++ become? What is it supposed to be
>>> best at? Why would I pick C++ to write a LOB app? What does Bjarne think
>>> about all this?
>>>
>>> There must be a huge number of developers globally using C++, but what
>>> are they doing with it that requires such a bloated and complex language? I
>>> haven't met a C++ developer in the last 15 years that can answer that
>>> question.
>>>
>>> *Greg K*
>>>
>>

Re: [OT] C++ directions

[Greg Harris]

If I was going to use C++
I would not!

I would use C# and use C for the small parts that had to be fast.

I have not touched C for 25 years, not going to change

:-)

Greg Harris
harris.gre...@gmail.com
phone: 0407 942 982
Baulkham Hills
NSW 2153




On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:20 AM Grant Maw  wrote:

> I would need a very good reason to choose C++ to write a new project
> today, a reason like needing to be close to the metal or needing very
> fine-grained control over performance, memory usage, and other resources.
> So things like writing a new OS, device drivers, high end computer games
> and other graphics-intensive scenarios possibly. But for me that is never,
> all my work is LOB stuff.
>
> .Net core more than satisfies all my current (and foreseeable)
> requirements, and takes care of all the internal plumbing for me. I can't
> imagine a scenario where I would need something other than c# or f# for the
> sort of work I do.
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 15:28, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>
>> Folks, It's quiet in here because I suppose you're all in lockdown
>> guarding your mountains of bog-roll. I've got a TGIF contribution...
>>
>> A colleague was discussing how to write the most transportable C++ code
>> possible and sent links to C++ 17 features
>> 
>> and C++ 20 upcoming.  These
>> articles quite shocked and angered me. I wrote C++ for 10 years until about
>> 2003 (when .NET mercifully replaced it my LOB style work). I quite enjoyed
>> C++ at the time, but after looking at those articles I'm quite angry that
>> C++ has become one of the worst victims of feature-creep I have ever seen.
>> It's like the C++ steering committee are suffering from an inferiority
>> complex and have fought back by adding every feature of every other modern
>> language into it. It's an insane jumble of the old low-level C-like
>> language with bits of LINQ, C#, Rust and Haskell. The syntax of the std::
>> libraries is so cryptic it looks like a maths puzzle.
>>
>> Just what category of language has C++ become? What is it supposed to be
>> best at? Why would I pick C++ to write a LOB app? What does Bjarne think
>> about all this?
>>
>> There must be a huge number of developers globally using C++, but what
>> are they doing with it that requires such a bloated and complex language? I
>> haven't met a C++ developer in the last 15 years that can answer that
>> question.
>>
>> *Greg K*
>>
>

Re: [OT] C++ directions

[Grant Maw]

I would need a very good reason to choose C++ to write a new project today,
a reason like needing to be close to the metal or needing very fine-grained
control over performance, memory usage, and other resources. So things like
writing a new OS, device drivers, high end computer games and other
graphics-intensive scenarios possibly. But for me that is never, all my
work is LOB stuff.

.Net core more than satisfies all my current (and foreseeable)
requirements, and takes care of all the internal plumbing for me. I can't
imagine a scenario where I would need something other than c# or f# for the
sort of work I do.


On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 15:28, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Folks, It's quiet in here because I suppose you're all in lockdown
> guarding your mountains of bog-roll. I've got a TGIF contribution...
>
> A colleague was discussing how to write the most transportable C++ code
> possible and sent links to C++ 17 features
> 
> and C++ 20 upcoming.  These
> articles quite shocked and angered me. I wrote C++ for 10 years until about
> 2003 (when .NET mercifully replaced it my LOB style work). I quite enjoyed
> C++ at the time, but after looking at those articles I'm quite angry that
> C++ has become one of the worst victims of feature-creep I have ever seen.
> It's like the C++ steering committee are suffering from an inferiority
> complex and have fought back by adding every feature of every other modern
> language into it. It's an insane jumble of the old low-level C-like
> language with bits of LINQ, C#, Rust and Haskell. The syntax of the std::
> libraries is so cryptic it looks like a maths puzzle.
>
> Just what category of language has C++ become? What is it supposed to be
> best at? Why would I pick C++ to write a LOB app? What does Bjarne think
> about all this?
>
> There must be a huge number of developers globally using C++, but what are
> they doing with it that requires such a bloated and complex language? I
> haven't met a C++ developer in the last 15 years that can answer that
> question.
>
> *Greg K*
>