Re: VBAC Support
Carolyn sent a message to this list looking for vbac support in NZ. I would be very interested in any replies as my sis is birthing there in Oct, vbac, with me as main support. She is finding it very difficult to find anyone to support her wholeheartedly in her dream to birth her baby in the secure environment of her home. First babe LUSCS for breech ( no option/support given for alternatives ). With thanks Bronni -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update
Dear list: Just to put my 2 cents in here at the risk of offending some. There are some foul bacteria of the anaerobic kind that have been isolated from hospital surfaces and nurses hands and finger nails in of all places NICU's and ICU's in the USA as well as therapeutic spas and saunas. Any who want to, can go to PUBMED and enter any of these key words: "nosocomial infections" or "Pseudomonas aeruginosus" (that may be a spelling error, but it is close). This particular bacteria forms spores and is found in soil of the garden variety. So, I think the hospital policies are understandable. In Seattle, where we do a lot of water births, at home, in free standing birth centers, and can use water in labour in some hospitals we do use rental labour tub companies. And, yes the hospitals let them in to deliver and set up their tubs. For two hundred dollars they bring a portable tub, set it up complete with thermometer and and heater and a disposable never before used thick, tough, plastic liner. Of course the pool is cleaned and disinfected between users, but the woman should not be exposed to anyone elses bugs, ultimatelybecause of the liner. Then there is the question of the midwives hands, which even though they be scrubbed, washed, and gloved, should they be in the water? ( And here, I am not concerned about the midwife being contaminated by the woman, it is cross infection of the woman from the midwife I am thinking of), I would venture (having done it both ways) that 99% of the time there is no need, the woman will birth her baby and bringthe baby to the surface herself, thatis the joy of water birth. However, if one feels the need to get your hands in, and until recently, I must confess that was me, even attemting to provide extra peri support (what a joke all I succeeded in doing was getting drenched, and a sore back or knees, but I had read a paper from the UK that linked more 2nd degree tears to water birth so I was attemting to alter that???), long gloves are best to use the aqua doppler, and Barbara Harper and her group in Oregon have a gloves and gown/apron ensemble that would if nothing else keep the midwife dry. So, that is my long way of saying, in a multi user of tubs setting, try a disposable tub liner for added protection and keep birth attendants hands etc out of the water. marilyn - Original Message - From: Phillip Fogarty To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 11:14 PM Subject: Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update Megan, As it was explained to me while we were touring the RWH Brisbane (2 months ago) hospitals current policy stands because they say that yes, they do clean the baths, but no amount of cleaning can get rid of every single germ that is put in there. We were also told during ante-natal (16 months ago) that the hospital policy on water births was a NO because they were concerned with workplace health and safety re: Midwives backs leaning over the bath, slipping etc. KF. - Original Message - From: megan davidson To: Debby M ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:47 PM Subject: Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update Congratulations Debbie, on achieving the rare goal of negotiating your care (sucessfully) with a large hospital. I am very pleased to see that it can be done. There is just one thing, however, that concerns me "Pat indicated that some of the patients who go to the labour suite have dubious cleanliness habits and she would prefer I don't labour with ROM in those baths but the BC baths are not used as often and the clientelle is different" Don't they clean the baths between clients? Who is to be considered as possesing "dubious cleanliness habits"? I am sure that we have had clients in our birthing unit which may have been seen as dubious, however that has never prevented them or any of our other "clean" clients from using the bath. Surely the birthing center should be using their bath more? What makes their clients so different? Yours in "dubious cleanliness" Megan - Original Message - From: Debby M To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:05 PM Subject: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update Hi Lynn and the other ladies and gents on the board, Well some interesting occurrences in mybattle to achieve a minimal to non intervention birth at Royal Women's Brisbane. I received a letter from Stephen Ayres one of the admin type OBs late last week that basically told me to go jump and there was no way I could go to the Birth Centre. That the policy review was a generic one not a Birth Centre specific one and that was that. Telling me out and out
Re: reference needed for an essay
In a message dated 18/06/02 1:39:30 PM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anyone know what the % i s of woman that meet the midwife that will care for them during labour (preferably in Victoria but in Australia will do) I need it for an essay. Hi Andrea. a good reference that may assist you in this essay would be the Victorian Survey of Recent Mothers 2000, (SRM2000) particularly the second report..."Continuity of Care: Does it make a difference to Women's views and experiences of maternity care?" Darcy M. Brown S. Bruinsma F. (2001) Centre for the Study of Mother's and Children's Health, La Trobe University. This study has many of the figures your after...and is the most up to date and comprehensive research into continuity of care and more importantly, what women think and feel about it and their experiences of it!! Specifically with regards to your question on the % of women who knew their midwife prior to labour, the SRM2000 found that of the women in the study only "9% of women reported that they knew at least one of the midwives caring for them in labour 'very well' before labour commenced, 19% said they knew the midwife/s but 'not very well' and 72% had not met any of the midwives present prior to meeting them during labour' (SRM2000 no.2 p32). Hope this helps... Yours in birth, Tina Pettigrew Birthworks Bachelor of Midwifery Student and Independent CBE Convenor, Aust B. Mid Student Collective. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective [EMAIL PROTECTED] " As we trust the flowers to open to new life - So we can trust birth" Harriette Hartigan. ---
Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update
In a message dated 18/06/02 2:08:03 PM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Whilst I appreciate Robin is right also I personally would prefer that you ladies do not speak to Pat on this. It was a private consulation about my care that I have chosen to share with you - more to make the point that negotiation is possible. If there appear to be cleanliness issues when I am there I will bring them up with Pat - have no fear of that - or by all means feel free if you personally make observations in support of any of the women there. But it is not fair to me or Pat to make "accusations" (although I am sure this is not the intent) based on a third party conversation - that was intended to reassure me that I will be allowed to birth in as much safety related to this risk as is feasibily possible. Thanks Debby Hello Debby and all.just a word of caution if I may..ozmidwifery is not a closed forum of members, but an open public forum...available for the whole world to see, should they choose too!! My point being is that we must be careful in respecting the rights of others in sharing our stories...particularly when individuals are identified as has been in this instance. People need to be mindful of disclosing confidential or 'private consultation' /discussions...in this arena!! Sorry to say Debby, but your fantastic story wasn't just shared with the 'ladies' you have come to know and trust on ozmid...but also with the many list lurkers who we don't know and thrive on such 'goss' as was provided here!!! Please one and alllets be a little more 'awake' to the potential damage that may be created when we get into this sort of stuff!! Yours in birth, Tina Pettigrew Birthworks Bachelor of Midwifery Student and Independent CBE Convenor, Aust B. Mid Student Collective. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective [EMAIL PROTECTED] " As we trust the flowers to open to new life - So we can trust birth" Harriette Hartigan. ---
Re: reference needed for an essay
Tina, your wealth of informationnever ceases to amaze me. Thanks for sharing this info and reference which will be useful to me for a paper I'm preparing. Hope youare enjoying you B.Mid studies. Kind regards, Lois - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 6:27 PM Subject: Re: reference needed for an essay In a message dated 18/06/02 1:39:30 PM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anyone know what the % i s of woman that meet the midwife that will care for them during labour (preferably in Victoria but in Australia will do)I need it for an essay.Hi Andrea.a good reference that may assist you in this essay would be the Victorian Survey of Recent Mothers 2000, (SRM2000) particularly the second report..."Continuity of Care: Does it make a difference to Women's views and experiences of maternity care?" Darcy M. Brown S. Bruinsma F. (2001) Centre for the Study of Mother's and Children's Health, La Trobe University.This study has many of the figures your after...and is the most up to date and comprehensive research into continuity of care and more importantly, what women think and feel about it and their experiences of it!! Specifically with regards to your question on the % of women who knew their midwife prior to labour, the SRM2000 found that of the women in the study only"9% of women reported that they knew at least one of the midwives caring for them in labour 'very well' before labour commenced, 19% said they knew the midwife/s but 'not very well' and 72% had not met any of the midwives present prior to meeting them during labour' (SRM2000 no.2 p32).Hope this helps...Yours in birth,Tina PettigrewBirthworksBachelor of Midwifery Student and Independent CBE Convenor, Aust B. Mid Student Collective.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective[EMAIL PROTECTED]" As we trust the flowers to open to new life - So we can trust birth"Harriette Hartigan.---
Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update
Re the bath tub: I've often thought that a way of solving the cross-infection problem in a "public" bath was to use the method we do in homebirth tubs. I am sure that even the brand-new plastic that we use has it's drawbacks but we have NEVER had a problem in all the years I have been doing homebirth waterbirths. I buy a couple of pieces of 4metre wide clear plastic and that forms the individual disposal liner to our portable birth pools. It lines the frame like lining a pudding basin. After the bathis half full we then tie a rope around the outsideto make it tidy and hold it in place. The weight of the water does the rest. Is it possible to use one piece of plastic of a suitable size to line the hospital bath? Just a thought, cheers, Mary Murphy
Fear of death in childbirth
Title: Message At some point along the way, I always talk about death..."in the best of care, with the best of intention...death of a baby and even death of a mother is a possibility...birth, as with every other aspect of living, is not without risk." As I see it, what is important is that people understand the possibilities and choose for themselves what set of risks they are willing to live (or die) with. They after all are the ones who live most intimately with the outcome of the birth.I also talk with parents about outcomes for my own practice so far... promising them that while I cannot give them a guarantee of safety, I can commit myself to working alongside them doing my absolute best to facilitate thehappiest healthiestpossible birth outcome. I might tell them he story of the ob who ''guaranteed safety'' as long as the woman would only come to hospital or the hospital administrator who politely explained in a letter to a client that the reason he was insisting on her coming to hospital was to "ensuresafety". I tell them that these wonderful people are a lot more skilled than I or perhaps have a direct line to a higher source of information to provide such promises...I did once ask an ob where one could get a hold of those guarantees..but he just looked at me funny and walked away. Must be a trade secret. Around the 36 week mark, I will initiate a session incuding ''what if the baby arrives before the midwife'' ''what if the baby is not breathing?" "What if the baby dies?" This will usually generate discussion on a huge range of issues. I will also go through situations that may arise and what may need to be done. I even demonstrate my ''this is serious'' voice so there is no misunderstanding between ''Oh, this is something you might like to try" and ''We have a problem, this is what we need to do!" This way, clients have a good understanding of how I would act in a certain situation so on the (unlikely) event occuring there is already knowlege, trust, partnership. When a woman is bleeding profusely, this is not the time to begin conversation, weigh up pros and cons of acting upon the problem, researching alternative treatments I remember once when a woman had had a sizable bleed and went all wafty, laid back,and said dreamily "I'm going away, I'm going away" I spoke sternly and said "Not on my time, you're not!!'' She came back quick smart. She said later that the feeling was really beautiful and she would have been quite happy to drift off. I explained that apart from anything else that would have been really bad for my reputation and not a good idea!! :) Vicki -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 3:25 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: Fear of death in childbirthIn a message dated 16/06/02 1:48:12 PM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you talk about maternal death in class ? Does everyone feel it should be dealt with routinely in classes, afterall I'm sure everyone must worry about it, so we shouldn't ignore it? How do you approach it? Do you just wait to see if someone brings it up as a question ? What are some reasurring things you say about it ? How would you present this to your classes ?I feel this is an area I need to work on and would very much appreciate input as I formulate my thoughts ...hugJulie ClarkeJulieHi Julie and all..talking death (maternal, fetal or infant) in class is something I always struggled with tooits a hard one particularly in large groups when it can be difficult to gauge on a more 'intimate' level just how people are feeling/responding...I've found smaller groups strangely enough worked better...but this may be just my facilitating bias...However, irrespective of how the group is organised, I personally feel its important to discuss death, (peoples views on death are remarkably similar to their views on birth) but the HOW to initiate the discussion or if in fact we should at all and what potential is there for causing more harm than good are just some of the questions I always asked myself when I was facilitating CBE. Something I never really resolved for myself or in my work at that timeThen one day in a small group of women I was working with, we stumbled onto talking about dreams...how vivid, 'weird' and prolific dreams are in pregnancyso we explored this for awhile...what sort of things do pregnant women dream about, what comes to them in their dreaming and how dreams make us feel. What I did find interesting from this work was the amount of times pregnant women dreamed of dying...of their babies dying...of their babies having abnormalities etc etc.. Our 'dream talk' made for a great way to explore death associated with birth, initially
Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update
How come other birth centres are not so ? Are there a lot of other restrictions at Brisbane?? Denise - Original Message - From: Phillip Fogarty To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 4:14 PM Subject: Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update Megan, As it was explained to me while we were touring the RWH Brisbane (2 months ago) hospitals current policy stands because they say that yes, they do clean the baths, but no amount of cleaning can get rid of every single germ that is put in there. We were also told during ante-natal (16 months ago) that the hospital policy on water births was a NO because they were concerned with workplace health and safety re: Midwives backs leaning over the bath, slipping etc. KF. - Original Message - From: megan davidson To: Debby M ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:47 PM Subject: Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update Congratulations Debbie, on achieving the rare goal of negotiating your care (sucessfully) with a large hospital. I am very pleased to see that it can be done. There is just one thing, however, that concerns me "Pat indicated that some of the patients who go to the labour suite have dubious cleanliness habits and she would prefer I don't labour with ROM in those baths but the BC baths are not used as often and the clientelle is different" Don't they clean the baths between clients? Who is to be considered as possesing "dubious cleanliness habits"? I am sure that we have had clients in our birthing unit which may have been seen as dubious, however that has never prevented them or any of our other "clean" clients from using the bath. Surely the birthing center should be using their bath more? What makes their clients so different? Yours in "dubious cleanliness" Megan - Original Message - From: Debby M To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:05 PM Subject: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update Hi Lynn and the other ladies and gents on the board, Well some interesting occurrences in mybattle to achieve a minimal to non intervention birth at Royal Women's Brisbane. I received a letter from Stephen Ayres one of the admin type OBs late last week that basically told me to go jump and there was no way I could go to the Birth Centre. That the policy review was a generic one not a Birth Centre specific one and that was that. Telling me out and out no is never a good idea - I'm too stubborn to accept that - so via Kevin Forbes I sent the hospital back an email that was a major dummy spit basically saying if they wouldn't compromise with me then I wasn't going to compromise with them either and listing a whole heap of standard protocols with which I would fail to provide anyconsent. The next day I received a call from Pat Schneider (head of nursing services at RWH), who some of you probably know, and we arranged to meet this morning. She indicated on the phone that she felt she could offer me some good compromises and was apologetic that the issue had taken so long to come to any sort of resolution. So off I toddled to my ante natal visit with Anne Mc-T (my doula) who some of you also probably know and we had a lovely chat with Pat. The compromises she has offered me were fantastic. Although I still cannot be admitted to the Birth Centre as a birth centre patient I am getting basically a birth centre birth right next door (literally). Pat has arranged for one of the BC midwives to be my midwife for the remainder of my pregnancy and for my delivery - so I get my continuity of care. She also offered to be on call herself in case there were any issues. The room they are going to try to save for me is the one right next to the entrance to the BC so that my support team and I will have full access to the BCs general facilities as would a BC patient. I have full permission to rearrange the room how I please (nesting big time) to make the environment as unclinical (read unthreatening) as I need including putting the standard hospital bed away and putting the bed mattress on the floor - dim lights, music, any personal items the works. (This may seem odd but with my first VBAC I had a failure to progress for about 6 hrs that started when I got to hospital and the only thing I can put it to was being tensed up by the hospital clinical environment). The midwife I have been assigned is trained in supporting women in labour and also in water birth. There is a bath in the
Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update
Excellent idea Mary. Marilyn - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: Marilyn Kleidon ; Phillip Fogarty ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 6:08 AM Subject: Re: RWH Bris Birth Centre Update Re the bath tub: I've often thought that a way of solving the cross-infection problem in a "public" bath was to use the method we do in homebirth tubs. I am sure that even the brand-new plastic that we use has it's drawbacks but we have NEVER had a problem in all the years I have been doing homebirth waterbirths. I buy a couple of pieces of 4metre wide clear plastic and that forms the individual disposal liner to our portable birth pools. It lines the frame like lining a pudding basin. After the bathis half full we then tie a rope around the outsideto make it tidy and hold it in place. The weight of the water does the rest. Is it possible to use one piece of plastic of a suitable size to line the hospital bath? Just a thought, cheers, Mary Murphy
Re: cord clamping
Title: Message I think these articles are interesting, but although I am an advocate for physiological third stage and delayed if any clamping at all, for a normal birth, I don't think I agree with or understand the neonatal physiology arguments in some of these articles. Firstly re neonatal anemia in Zanzibar, while early cord clamping may not improve the situation I don't think it causes it, it would be due, I think, to malaria or other parasitic maternal infections, which do affect the fetal haemoglobin levels. Thus the fetus is anemic and hence hypoxic inutero, this I think, is where the brain damage would occur. I haven't worked in Africa, but my eldest daughter has, in Ghana, and has assured me that the effects of maternal malaria are profound and not limited to neonatal anemia. Second, and the last at thismoment oftime, fetuses have high levels of hemoglobin because, life in utero is a low oxygen environment, therefore you need more red blood cells to get the oxygen needed to the tissues, fetal hemoglobin has a lower partial pressure of oxygen and so is unsuitable as an oxygen carrier after birth. Also, as the placenta is shearing off after birth, its function as a waste transfer organ is over, and the pulse is coming from the baby, so unless the baby is kept lower than the uterus, the baby is loosing blood, not gaining it. These extra fetal hemaglobin carrying red blood cells arebeing recycled just beforeand after birth as the oxygen environment changes. It is the different partial pressures of oxygen in the baby's blood after he/she starts to breathe that contribute to the change from fetal circulation that the baby needs to make to continue to be adequately oxygenated. All of this means to me that if a baby needs to be resuscitated and the cord needs to be cut to facillitate this, then it is ok. But this is not in a normal birth. Marilyn - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: FW: cord clamping check out these articles on cord clamping http://www.google.com/custom?cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3A5cdb2968a482194d%3Bdomains=www.mercola.comsitesearch=www.mercola.comq=cord+clamping -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of James Stephanie FairbairnSent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 11:34 PMTo: ozSubject: cord clamping Dear list, I would be interested (as a CBE) of what the various policies are in the 3rd stage management - specifically cord clamping - either in hospital or birth centre. For a few years I have been teaching physiol.vs managed 3rd stage to very interested parents who were subsequently sufficiently motivated to research a physiol. 3rd stage by themselves and put it in their birth plan. However, on the 'day' it has been the last thing on their minds and have ended up - for various reasons (not usually medical) - with a clamped cord at birth. Why does this proceedure appear to be taken so much for granted when the '3rd' stage is just as an important process as the other 2 and fall by the wayside in relative importance??? Any answers??!! Steph - Adelaide CBE.
7 news
The news on 7 tonight - the add went something like this... "Our greatest gift" "Safer epidurals" "Reducing the pain ofchildbirth" I Only saw it once but wasshocked by the way they portrayedit - as if we should bewaning epidurals - this is whereintervention starts! Be interesting to see what they say! Rhonda IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Looking for Lena.
Does anyone have phone or email details for Lena Clerke in Melbourne. I would like to contact her. Would you please send this email on to her or email me privately with her details. Thanks in anticipation. Christina.
Re: Looking for Lena.
I don't have contact details for her, but I know her website is www.wonderfulbirth. something... I'm not sure if it .com, .org, .com.au, .org.au, etc, but I'm pretty sure about the wonderful birth part! I'm sure there are some contact details there. Good luck! Jen --- Christina Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have phone or email details for Lena Clerke in Melbourne. I would like to contact her. Would you please send this email on to her or email me privately with her details. Thanks in anticipation. Christina. __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
cord clamping
Interesting articles on this website, www.gentlebirth.org.au particularly the following, www.gentlebirth.org/archives/hastyclamping.html Liz
[no subject]
Dear Denise at S.J.F.Electrical, I just love your poster, have photocopied it and am passing it around. I'm amazed to find that many midwives do not know about the maternity coalition. Liz
RE: Looking for Lena.
Dear Christina You could chase Lina up through her website http://www.wonderfulbirth.com/ Cheers Jane Palmer Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Christina DamienSent: Wednesday, 19 June 2002 12:28 PMTo: OZMID SEND OUTSubject: Looking for Lena. Does anyone have phone or email details for Lena Clerke in Melbourne. I would like to contact her. Would you please send this email on to her or email me privately with her details. Thanks in anticipation. Christina.
