Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwife in Geelong area?
In a message dated 10/11/02 6:08:15 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey thats my post!! What a small world the net can be... :) But yes- if anyone can point me in the direction of a couple of midwives in this area, I would be truly grateful!! Cheers- Isis Hi Isis my name is Tina Pettigrew, a B Mid student who lives in Geelong...if you would like to contact me off the list I can put you in touch with some local midwives and bring you up to speed on all things birth here locally... Look forward to hearing from you Cheers Tina.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re : Julia's birth
h, that sounds SO beautiful. Snowy haired babies are always my favourites, I could only imagine what a water-birthed one looks like. :-) Robin - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re : Julia's birth And a shock of white blonde hair . Perfect I have also had a baby born with a crop of white blonde hair, it is truly beautiful. He was born in the water and to have a baby lifted through the water and this halo of white hair floating around the head, is a sight to be seen. cheers Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Hi everyone, One of my daugters is studying medicine, and she is appalled at the common 'ethic' or attitude of fellow med students. A typical example would be that she was taught that baby's breathing mechanism is stimulated initially by the cutting of the cord. It is in her text book!! When she queried this and mentioned lotus birth and underwater births and homebirths where cords are not cut (quickly) so can not be part of the stimulation to breathe, the only response was that she must be the one from ...Nimbin or wherever I've changed the place so to protect my daughter, but I'm sure you get the gist. NO DISCUSSION at all, and NO queries from any of the other students (most being sons and daughters of GPs). It is surely horrifying!! These ARE the future GPs and OBs of the future!! Sue Hi again all, had an interesting afternoon today at a BBQ with some old work mates...One friend who I worked at CSIRO with eons ago (past life stuff) like me had a radical change in occupation and went to do nursing...she finished her nursing about 8 years agoanyhowshe brought a friend to the BBQ ...a work colleague I just assumed this woman was a nurse too...anyhow got chatting as you do...my friend announced to her work colleague that I was doing midwifery.So your a nurse too she asked...No...I'm not a nurse doing the new Bachelor of Midwiferybla blaDirect entry my friend announcesone of THOSE midwives who think they are not part of the nursing profession. ...Well that went down REAL well...she always did know how to get my hackles up...thought I had educated her better than that...but can see she has been educated by others than just I...:-(( No not direct entry I replied...we don't do direct entry nursingor direct entry medicine...or direct law or accounting...bla bla bla..Anyhow ...finally this work colleague couldn't resist and announced that she was a MO...doing her internshipand wanted to know more about the likes of you doing midwifery without nursing firstdo you do any physiology??? bla bla bla I guess you can imagine the conversation from there... The conversion progressed quickly back to medicine...I wanted to pick her brains about being a beginning practitioner and her thoughts on the health care system...What struck me immediately was her sheer arrogance and lack of understanding of peopleamazingAccording to her the general public are all fu-k--- nuff nuffsparents have no parenting skills..the public all just want to sue us. She was just fascinated to think that I would even consider private practice as a midwife...too scary - you must be fu--ing mad!! and noone from uni is even considering obs and gynae as its just too risky. This woman is 25 years old and already educated with the 'fear factor'. She stated openly that as doctors they are taught at med school that a trusting relationship with your patients is non existent as the patient only looks to the doctor fix up their problems and will sue if they don't..and the doctor looks at the patient thinking all you want is to sue meI was totally blown away by this...oh yeh she says...its the underlying premise in all that we do...we have to always be thinking at every moment...are you the one who is going to make my life hell? How scary is this folks???These are the obs of the future...This woman has this level of fear ingrained into her already..I couldn't believe what I was hearingI was almost lost for words...beleive it or not! Ahhh I said...that's where midwives have it all over doctorsour basic premise is trustfor if we can't establish our professional relationships on thatlike you guys are discovering...when it all comes tumbling downyou have nothing else Trust and communication.two important factors in not getting sued I'd reckon..but hey who am Ionly a nuf nuff in her eyes... Cheers Tina P.
Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences
MArgie - just wanted to say THANK YOU for these words. The biggest thing I am finding for anyone who has been traumatised by their birth experience is GETTING VALIDATION. Everytime someone says It is not ok, as you have, it lets us hear that our pain is valid. We usually hear but you're fine and the baby is fine whenever we mention our difficulties to others. Hearing It is not ok also gives us permission to grieve, for it admits that there IS another way that IS ok...and we have missed out on it. It is important to acknowledge this. And the way you wrote about having had the honour of supporting traumatised women on their new journey...that just fills me with hope, and gratitude that there are people like you out there. Thank you, Melissa -- From: Margie Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 4:21 PM My heart goes out to everyone who is sharing or has had soul and body hurting births. It is not ok. And must change. I have had the honour of supporting a number of women who have previously been traumatised by caesareans (or other things) and it is something so special to be part of their new journey. love and the greatest respect to you all. Margie At Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:39:56 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time), Rhonda ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I suggest tjhat you allow her to be angry and to vent her pain and her anger towards those who caused it. Support her in complaining to the hospital and insisting upon answers as lame as they may be. If she were to ask why was the induction needed? Was the baby in distress (at the time of the first insertion of gel - a horrible substance called prostin made from Pig seamen. Lovely!) Was her placenta failing? What was the indication that at 10 days over she needed to be induced anyway? Then once they have wormed out of that she should ask for explanations as to why all of the intervention and what caused it and why was it all needed. Give her lots of love and support to do this as nothing will change and it will keep happening unless women are encouraged to complain and conplain and complain! Even if she personally gets little satisfaction fron the complaint it is just one more brick to add - eventually we will built a wall to protect women from this - brick by brick. You need to complain first to the registra at the hospital but at the same time go directly to the medical practitioners board and make sure it outlines that the initial induction was not called for and the following intervention could have been avoided. Also any poor bedside manner should be outlines clearly if they were rude to her which it seems they were not supportive and gentle from your description. I wish her love and luck in her recovery - if she needs someone to talk to you are welcome to give her my email. The problem is this happens every day and it is not looked at as torture or as something that needs to be changed. The only way it will be seen as a problem is if they are inundated with complaints about this sort of thing. Luv Rhonda. I am so angry for her - it just shpuld not happen and make sure she knows she is right to be upset because it is not a fault with her body and it is not that it just happens - it should not have happened to her. Make sure she knows why it was not necessary and why it should not have happened. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, November 07, 2002 14:44:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Whew, Rhonda. I heard this morning from a friend about a friend of hers, aged 19, whose baby was 10 days late; ob insisted on inducing with gel, nothing much happening, into hosp., more drugs, foetal monitoring, on her back, strapped down to bed, more drugs, epidural, more of same, enormous episiotomy, cut artery, blood gushing in spurts, vacuum to head, two big men hauling as though it was a tug-of-war, massive lump on baby's head accompanied by ring of scars, she's stitched up, off her face, baby won't wake up, won't feed, she's being pumped every six hours for milk which they're somehow force feeding to baby. but hey, at least she's ok and the baby's ok, they tell her and she repeats as she recovers from her torture. Yes, it's happening under our noses. In Adelaide, November, 2002. ...and I'm screaming inside for women and children...who are our future. Aviva - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:05 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Well Megan, I guess the only way to really understand is this.. I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has happened and I have dealt with it in my own way)ay to really understand is this..=0D =0D I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change
RE: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Debby's articulate points to Tina'sBBQ discussion are very interesting.I have extrapolated out of the 2nd pointthe sentence below to which I offer my point of view. ...why can't you do a Bachelor of Science or Nursing with a major in Midwifery...??? Because it is my belief that if we takethisfuturistic road we remain primary nurses andsecondarymidwives, no different from where we are at present. If we midwives who practice midwifery remainregistered nurses first women and midwives will not see themselves freedfrom the control, power and dominanceof theobstetric profession and the medical influence of their education and practice. We must move on toward recognition of Midwifery as a distinct and legitimate nationally registeredprofession.Sate Registration is exceedingly restrictive to our practice and movement within our Nation. I think thiscould be achievedif we moved toward a strong cohesive body of midwives regardless of place of practice. For the past 18 years my perception of asuccessful,strong andcohesive body of midwives is to work toward a Trans Tasman agreement with New Zealand College of Midwives and the Australian College of Midwives. Theexperience of NZCOM gaining national recognition of midwives would be beneficial in working toward developingan Australian/New ZealandRegister formidwives.The legal details would need to be researched by midwives. Without doubt Midwives should be the providers of care for the majority of healthy, well pregnant women (around 85%). Nurses are the providers of care for the rest of the sick, ill and ageing population. There arevast and extreme differences in the models of care required.85% of well pregnant and birthing women should becared for solely by midwives. This is wheremidwives need to focusattention to providing information and education for women with emphasis onthewonderful, innate ability they have and what can achieve when they avoid the sick and interventionist medical model of obstetric care. Women who have been hurt, abused and damaged by the outrageous amount of unnecessary interventions should be encouraged to write and publish -books,Videos, CD's, DVD'sabout their experiences so that more of our future generations can access this information.Obstetric practice is responsible forthe unnecessary interventionist service they provide, little wonder they work in a model embellished by fear.Having said that, I really believe that they do not set out with the intent to harm women they are primarily influenced by their limitations ofknowledgeabout natural healthy pregnancy and birth.We knowonly 15% of women may need some level of medical care and with these 15% only some intervention will be necessary,and most importantly this 15% of women equally need one to one midwife care usually in a more interdisciplinary environment, depending on the extent of their illnessthey may even need some nursing care. The question is Why? With the above percentagesat our fingertips, the knowledge of the cost of the current intervention rates in this country and the highproportion ofobstetricians employed in the hospital systems who create this economic imbalance. Why aren't the learned economists pricking up their ears? Why is it so difficult topresent ourselves as economically viable and professionally reliable primary midwifery providers basedon the callous basis of economics alone?Maybe the economic experts can answer this. Mybelief iswe are still finding ourselves as a profession,we are still learning to trust each other, many are still gaining confidence to trust the woman and her innate ability. Community midwifery and generalpractice was removed from under our noses by a very powerful 'specialist obstetricprofession' who saw midwifery practice as a lucrative business which took women from the community and their homes into the sick and ill model of care in the institutions.Women believed the patronising obstetric approach when they used the'don't worry dear -we have the knowledge -we know what is best for you - trust us'and followed them into the 'safety of the hospital'.They further controlled women and midwives by ensuringintroduction of the doctor only referral system,effectively separating women from access to midwives. Althoughmidwives and women are trying to make a difference, it is very difficult to be recognised when there is apathy in professional unity, our practice is fragmented. We are fragmented professionally and politically, we are stilldivided by thenursing and midwifery models of care. Most hospital employed midwivesare anxious about losing their jobs if they are outspoken or are strong advocates forwomen's rights. Women are brow beaten and controlled particularly when under the care of medical men and women. Like our medical colleagues, we are also fear driven for different reasons. Women conform and midwives are submissive, we arefrightened to challenge to
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife Hi, Tory, I am in Brisbane but know quite a few fantastic people on the Gold Coast who could support your sister-in-law (don't actually know any midwives, but these people I am recommending will - and support can come from all angles!). I hope it is ok - I have forwarded your email to Deirdrie Cullen, who is a member of the GC Home Birth Assoc and a wonderful contact for any pg woman on the Gold Coast. Her ph humber is : 55332258. Also, I recommend that your sister-in-law contact Sarah Buck, a Childbirth Educator/Doula who is currently supporting my best friend as she prepares for a vbac. I have also spoken to her on the ph and she was great. Her number is 55 908 101. THe Gold Coast has quite a rampant c/sec rate - and from friends I hear it is very difficult to find support from an OB. But hopefully your sister-in-law will be able to meet some of these women and surround herself with positive and informed support. Plus, Dr Andrew Davidson is an OB at John Flynn Hospital at the Gold Coast who does water births and I believe is supportive of vbac, so may be more open with your sister-in-law about her options, too. Also,if your sister-in-law has internet access, I suggest she contact ICAN (International Caesarean Awareness Network), for more information, as they are fabulous in that area. The best way is to get on their chat list and just ask the questions. The site is www.ican-online.org, and the chat list address is : send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . In the body of the email, simply type the word subscribe. Don't put anything in the subject line. You'll get an email back with further instructions about how to validate your request -- just remember, always use plain settings on your email, or the list program won't hear what you are trying to do! She could also contact me at Birthtalk (3356 7449). My sister-in-law is a midwife and together we run this support group for Birthing Women in Brisbane, if she needs to talk. Hope this helps, Melissa birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth. We aim to : * provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth * empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information about their birthing options *encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. birthtalk meets monthly at Toowong, in Brisbane, Australia email us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melissa : ph (07) 3356 7449 Debby : ph (07) 3379 7424 Karen : ph (07) 3720 1101 -- From: Victoria Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Midwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 5:59 AM Dear Ozmidders, My name is Tory Howell and I am a first year midwifery student in Adelaide. I am writing to ask if their are any midwives in the Gold Coast region that could help my sister-in-law. She is due on the 11th of January but has been told to have a c-section. I saw her not long ago and asked her why this was recommended. She couldn't quite give me a clear answer so I thought I would ask you all what you thought! She has quite prominent varicose veins on her inner left thigh which give her quite a bit of discomfort. She also has a swelling in her left groin almost in the labia region. (No varicose veins visible in this spot). She has been given stockings etc... to try and make here more comfortable and a obstetrician actually said that she could try a vaginal birth but a hospital based midwife told her to go for the c-section option. She is quite distressed and confused when I saw her as she just wants to do the safest thing for her baby and I felt she was leaning towards the c-section option but there is no way her husband will be able to take much time off while she will be recovering. I would really like her to see a more open minded midwife for some clear discussions of her options, so if there is anyone out there who can help, it would be greatly appreciated. I am going to try to be with her for the birth and stay as long as I can to provide some support. Kind regards, Tory XXOO
Re: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec WAS dimensions - violent birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec WAS dimensions - violent birth Something I like to do for Ceasarean born babies...and breech born too...is spend time massaging the babe from crown down the body to the toes, making sure every part of the body is stimulated... Vicki Vicki - this is something that I think is really important for c/sec babies and their mums - that's so great that you do this. I started massaging my boy when he was quite new, and we both got so much out of it - we still do (he's 3 now). This reminds me of other things I have done to heal from my caesarean and to connect with my boy, so I thought I'd put a couple here... * skin-to-skin as soon as possible after birth. This may seem obvious, but I did not get to hold my baby skin-to-skin until he was 3 days old. He was completely healthy (Apgars of 9 and 10), but no-one thought to do it. He was just always handed to me wrapped up, and I had a hospital gown on. Even when feeding. When I finally unwrapped him and got him on my skin, all of a sudden we connected, and it was like he was MINE and I was HIS. I fell like I lost 3 days when I could have been connecting with my baby. * telling my child the things I wanted to say to him when he was born, but couldn't because we were separated after the birth (while I was left alone in recovery, wondering what had just occurred.). I have written him letters telling him the words of greeting I never got to say. Then, I whispered those words to him at night as he slept. Then, I told him after his afternoon nap, when he was still drowsy. I will never forget the look of wonderment and delight on his face (this was only quite recently). That has been very healing for me. Anyway - just a couple of things that have helped me heal. Melissa -- From: Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 9:37 PM Something I like to do for Ceasarean born babies...and breech born too...is spend time massaging the babe from crown down (for some reason, I went to write 'song-lines'here...interesting...) the body to the toes, making sure every part of the body is stimulated...simulating the passage through the vagina... the mothers have felt very good about doing this themselves...a gift to their child... Vicki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcalpine Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:13 PM To: ozmidwifery Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth Thanks to whoever sent the transcript. I have since inundated the ABC dimensions with my comments and request for help to get the message across. arrgghh! Its just too much to bear sometimes. Just yesterday, a fellow student and I were chatting after doing some work. She has a 15 yr old. Horrible, violent birth (the usual) After about 18 months, she returned to the hospital to discuss what had happened to her. That helped her a bit but she still grieves. No more children followed. In actual fact, I make it a point to know birth stories from every woman I know - (I should collect them for a book or something) Oh and here's another. Discussing NMAP, violent birth vs humanized birth etc. as usual with all and sundry one woman at work was listening so intently and I thought, hello, there's something here. On asking, it turned out that her third child, at full dilatation had cord prolapse. Big emergency, she said. Upside down and then hauled out with forceps. She was advised my a very wise woman, to provide excess sensory stimulation to enable/create neurophysiological recovery caused by damage due to forceps. Very thankful she did that, because as a toddler it helped him develop normally. He's 18 now, but has a very 'dark' side. ie suicidal thoughts. Liz Mc
Re: [ozmidwifery] info on cholestasis
She needs to have liver function monitored regularly once she starts itching. It may be that she develops this earlier in this pregnancy and induction may need to be done earlier to coincide with that. Cholestasis has a horrendously high risk of stillbirth, and shouldn't be taken lightly. There is plenty of literature that has come out in the last 5-10 years about this - try searching under obstetric cholestasis in medline. Kirsten - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] info on cholestasis Has anyone have any suggestions for a mum who is pregnant with baby number four, about 13 weeks, but developed cholestasis with her last baby. Fortunately it was very late into her pregnancy and she birthed vaginally after an induction, all going well. I have some info that was posted 12 months ago from Natalie Forbes Dash, just wondering if anyone knows anything new? thanks in advance, Megan. PS - she has had midwifery care in the past, but this may exclude her from using the Birth Centre, also now has health insurance and is a tad keen to get her return on this. She does have an idea about the different philosophies of midwives and Obs. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Fw: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Dear Robyn, Powerful, brilliant letter. I second everything you said. And, in fact, the WHO consensus for health promotion 1986 - nearly 20 years ago recommended the same thing and we are still no further forward. love lizmc edited LEGISLATION Midwifery as a distinct and legitimate nationally registeredprofession. thiscould be achievedif we moved toward a strong cohesive body of midwives regardless of place of practice. work toward a Trans Tasman agreement with New Zealand College of Midwives and the Australian College of Midwives. Theexperience of NZCOM gaining national recognition of midwives would be beneficial in working toward developinganAustralian/New ZealandRegister formidwives. The legal details would need to be researched by midwives. Without doubt Midwives should be the providers of care for the majority of healthy, well pregnant women (around 85%). Nurses are the providers of care for the rest of the sick, ill and ageing population. There arevast and extreme differences in the models of care EDUCATION FOR WOMEN midwives need to focusattention to providing information and education for women with emphasis onthewonderful, innate ability they have and what can achieve when they avoid the sick and interventionist medical model of obstetric care. PUBLICITY Women who have been hurt, abused and damaged by the outrageous amount of unnecessary interventions should be encouraged to write and publish -books,Videos, CD's, DVD'sabout their experiences so that more of our future generations can access this information.Obstetric practice is responsible forthe unnecessary interventionist service they provide, little wonder they work in a model embellished by fear.Having said that, I really believe that they do not set out with the intent to harm women they are primarily influenced by their limitations ofknowledgeabout natural healthy pregnancy and birth.We knowonly 15% of women may need some level of medical care and with these 15% only some intervention will be necessary,and most importantly this 15% of women equally need one to one midwife care usually in a more interdisciplinary environment, depending on the extent of their illnessthey may even need some nursing care. PUBLIC AND PROFESSIONAL EDUCATION There is equally a lack of professional and community education and understanding of pregnant, birthing and post birth women it should be a compulsory part of theeducation of all obstetricians and midwives to attendthe care of a 'woman with a midwife' during pregnancy and birthing at home. MEDIA no more distortions!! portrayal of midwives / pregnancy and birth as a normal life event
[ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec /violent birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec WAS dimensions - violent birth Melissa, wonderful message to pass on to everyone ..thanks lizmc I started massaging my boy when he was quite new, and we both got so much out of it - we still do (he's 3 now * skin-to-skin as soon as possible after birth. * telling my child the things I wanted to say to him when he was born, but couldn't because we were separated after the birth I whispered those words to him at night as he slept. I told him after his afternoon nap, when he was still drowsy. I will never forget the look of wonderment and delight on his face (this was only quite recently). That has been very healing for me.
[ozmidwifery] autism study
Does anyone know more about the study done in WA looking at children with autism and their birth experience. Have a snippet from The Advertiser, saying women who had experienced difficult births or caesarean were more likely to have a child develop autism than those who had a normal birth. The mothers were more likely to be older, to have had an epidural and to have had an emergency or elective caesarean. Interesting thought. How does this link into the increasing diagnosis of autism and our escalating intervention rates. Also I am interested in the links with MMR vaccine and the suggestions of the disease developing in the bowel. Are babies who have had a traumatic birth experience at greater risk of the MMR vaccine? Lots of questions, wheres the answers. Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] autism study
Megan, don't know about MMR, or the WA study, but if you look at www.birthworks.com/primalhealth/ you will find the research database violent birth and autism lizmc Subject: [ozmidwifery] autism study Does anyone know more about the study done in WA looking at children with autism and their birth experience. Have a snippet from The Advertiser, saying women who had experienced difficult births or caesarean were more likely to have a child develop autism than those who had a normal birth. The mothers were more likely to be older, to have had an epidural and to have had an emergency or elective caesarean. Interesting thought. How does this link into the increasing diagnosis of autism and our escalating intervention rates. Also I am interested in the links with MMR vaccine and the suggestions of the disease developing in the bowel. Are babies who have had a traumatic birth experience at greater risk of the MMR vaccine? Lots of questions, wheres the answers. Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Haemoglobin and ferritin levels
Dear Sue The normal range of Ferritin in 10 to 150 - so 14 is in normal range. A lot of my clients have ferritin levels taken - and most of the time they are around 10 to 20 in the last trimester of pregnancy. Hb levels above 105 are also normal Cheers Jane Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Sue Cookson Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002 10:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Haemoglobin and ferritin levels Hi, Needing some help to clarify the difference between haemoglobin levels and ferritin levels. Have a local GP who switches between the two readings depending on which one is lowest and suggests/insists on iron injections. Levels I've had quoted from some of the women are: Hb 107 Ferritin 14 another: Hb 109 Ferritin 13 These two women are both 32 weeks. Just needing clarification and some evidence about the relevance of both/either readings. Hb levels seem fine to me - a bit foxed by the ferritin level - one woman had dropped from 120 early pregnancy to 14 now... Look forward to your fine input, Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] BMid course sturcture @ Victoria University
Isis anyone else that's interested, Victoria Uni has the course structure for their Bachelor of Midwifery on their website http://www.vu.edu.au/Faculties/Human% 20Development/Schools/Nursing/Undergraduate%20Courses/Bachelor%20of% 20Midwifery.asp Cheers, Jen BMid student, Victoria Uni -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec /violent birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec WAS dimensions - violent birth I have to tell you that I no longer have a little baby to massage but my puppy is so in love with me when I massage her every morning. Robyn -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of elizabeth mcalpineSent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:08 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec /violent birth Melissa, wonderful message to pass on to everyone ..thanks lizmc I started massaging my boy when he was quite new, and we both got so much out of it - we still do (he's 3 now * skin-to-skin as soon as possible after birth. * telling my child the things I wanted to say to him when he was born, but couldn't because we were separated after the birth I whispered those words to him at night as he slept. I told him after his afternoon nap, when he was still drowsy. I will never forget the look of wonderment and delight on his face (this was only quite recently). That has been very healing for me.
[ozmidwifery] Interesting story.
You know I recently heard of a woman who has 11 children. This was some time ago - I am sure that the friend who told me said that one of the children was my age. So this may be going back as far as 30 yrs or so. The first 6 were delivered by c/s because the doctors saw fit to do this - Once a c/s always a c/s. When she fell pregnant with her 7th child the doctor said that a seventh c/s would be too hard for her to heal from and said that she could not have a c/s. She said - well if I can't have another c/s then I will have to just deliver vaginally. From then on her next 5 babies were vaginal deliveries with no Scar rupture or complications. This story was so full of hope and truth that I had to share it with you all. What a brave woman. Regards Rhonda IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
[ozmidwifery] Fw: Breast Milk
I am sure we can all think of more than 4 reasons but I definitely like the last one. Rhonda Breast MilkA young man sat in the life science classroom, staring at a question on thefinal exam paper. The question was 'Give four advantages of breast milk.'What to write? He sighed, and began to scribble whatever came into hishead, hoping for the best:1. No need to boil. 2. Never goes sour.3. Available whenever necessary.So far so good - maybe. But the exam demanded a fourth answer. Again, whatto write? Once more, he sighed. He frowned. He scowled, then sighed again.Suddenly, he brightened. He grabbed his pen, and triumphantly, he scribbledhis definitive answer:4. Available in attractive containers of varying sizes.He received an A IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
[ozmidwifery] induction or miscarriage?
Hi, All, Just logged on for the first time in a few days -- 152 new messages, which could take a while. Still haven't come to terms with inducing with pig-semen-derived gel. Don't know if there's been anyone else online with this thought: Is it really induction, or is in fact miscarriage caused by gels etc.? I gather the hormonal effect is a large part of it, but what about side-effects of substances that are very unnatural to the human body? The more I read/hear of inductions where there's no maternal or foetal problem, the more I think itcould be actually miscarriage, not induction, leading to further interventions. And to think, it's only Monday! Aviva
Re: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Higgorance is a terrible thing in those who think they're not higgorant. Golly, Leslie was breathing before his body was out, and with both my Darlings, I didn't cut the cord until long after the placenta was born, they'd been fed, cuddled, massaged. Good think noone told them they couldn't breathe yet, eh? As for the MO at the bbq, dunno. Scratching my head, aviva
RE: [ozmidwifery] obs and gobs
Dear List, Well I was told spurious labour was common amongst those who had more than 3 babies and that I had an ineffective womb.Oh well there was a time when women were told they were incompetent to handle money and any title to land or even the right to vote.So now our cervix and wombs are incompetent!Love from Ann --- Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MessageI wonder what our vaginas and pelvic floors are supposed to comply with? Or whom? This lack of faith in women and what they can do seems to be the legacy of a past time.for a good read see Reading Birth and Death (jo Murphy-Lawless) and Sex and Suffering (Janet MacCalman). These explained many things for me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Vicki Chan Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2002 11:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] obs and gobs this fine bit of teaching I just came across from the uni of melb obs and gobs... should set our little hearts at rest... Primigravida Labour often begins slowly (the latent phase). False alarms or spurious labour are common. The duration of labour averages 14 h, augmentation with oxytocin is often indicated, epidural analgesia frequently requested. The 2nd stage is often particularly slow due to the poor compliance of vagina and pelvic floor. Instrumental vaginal delivery is not uncommonly needed. dont tell me they aint got faith!!! or what about this one... Natural Course of Obstructed Labour 1.. Primigravida The uterus responds to slow progress with a reduction in the intensity and frequency of contractions - thereby further exacerbating the lack of progress. The natural course of neglected obstructed labour is to contract on and off for several days. The presenting part becomes impacted in the pelvic brim, the intervening tissues undergo pressure necrosis, infection develops, the fetus dies and with the skull bones collapsed, the fetus is able to deliver vaginally. An obstetric fistula is the long-term result. please, bring me the forceps this very minute!! Vicki http://www.obsgyn.unimelb.edu.au/Teaching/MHW%20Protocols/Obstetrics/Intra-P artum%20Care.htm __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW:
I've been told that it takes five shots of seminal fluid (in quick order) to reach the same doasge as that given to women to induce labour with pharmaceutical PG's And from the stories I've been told, it works beautifully - in LOTS of lovely ways. Cheers! Terry - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: A pig's orgasm lasts 30 minutes. (In my next life, I want to be a pig.)Well, look at that - Now we know why their semen is so potent! I am sure if we can get our men to perform betterthen we canmake the use of prostin obsolete! LOL Rhonda IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW:
Now I've always thought/believed/heard that it is the WOMAN"S orgasm that contributes more prostaglandins than the mans. THoughts? Kirsten - Original Message - From: Terry Garnons-Williams To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: I've been told that it takes five shots of seminal fluid (in quick order) to reach the same doasge as that given to women to induce labour with pharmaceutical PG's And from the stories I've been told, it works beautifully - in LOTS of lovely ways. Cheers! Terry - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: A pig's orgasm lasts 30 minutes. (In my next life, I want to be a pig.)Well, look at that - Now we know why their semen is so potent! I am sure if we can get our men to perform betterthen we canmake the use of prostin obsolete! LOL Rhonda IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk
Title: introducing "birthtalk" Thank you, Alesa. that means a lot indeed. Aviva - Original Message - From: P A Koziol To: ozmidwifery Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing "birthtalk" Dear Aviva I have always been so sad around the times that we remember the waste and futility of war (ANZAC day and Rememberance Day). I find it difficult to put my overwhelming sense of waste into words. Last year I had to share some of it with a group of 28 participants in a childbirth education class. I mentioned at the start of the session that I would like to acknowledge remembrance day at 1100 by stopping the session for one minute'srespectful silence. The groupagreed, at 1100 they were all involved in small group discussions but stopped following the gentle reminder that it was 1100 and 29 peopleremained silent for that minute. A very powerful minute. Alesa Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne
Re: [ozmidwifery] autism study
On Sunrise this morning they interviewed a researcher who has found a link between autism and excessive brain growth in babies from about the 4th month. Their correlation went further to say that the more pronounced the excessive brain growth was the more severe the autism as the child got older. I suppose it just goes to show that we don't know what causes autism or even what the predetermining factors are. But all factors that show a strong(ish) positive correlation should be considered. It may well be that it is a mix of factors eg. abnormally fast brain growth and birth trauma. Debby From: "elizabeth mcalpine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] autism study Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:48:34 +1100 Megan, don't know about MMR, or the WA study, but if you look at www.birthworks.com/primalhealth/ you will find the research database violent birth and autism lizmc Subject: [ozmidwifery] autism study Does anyone know more about the study done in WA looking at children with autism and their birth experience. Have a snippet from The Advertiser, saying women who had experienced difficult births or caesarean were more likely to have a child develop autism than those who had a normal birth. The mothers were more likely to be older, to have had an epidural and to have had an emergency or elective caesarean. Interesting thought. How does this link into the increasing diagnosis of autism and our escalating intervention rates. Also I am interested in the links with MMR vaccine and the suggestions of the disease developing in the bowel. Are babies who have had a traumatic birth experience at greater risk of the MMR vaccine? Lots of questions, wheres the answers. Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] autism study
Just found this. This is the congress where they are speaking about autism and the abnormal brain growth theory. http://www.autismcongress.com/speaker.html DebbyTired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Prostoglandins
Now I thought it was a case of the woman's orgasm causes the uterus to contract very strongly which then if the body and babyare ready, bring on labour. I didn't know that women produced much prostoglandin at all but it is in human men's semen in a lower concentration to thatof pigs. As far as the supply - if it is from pigs they would have a huge supply from the slaughter yards so that would not be a problem. I am not sure noif i am to believe that it is synthhetic or it is synthetically altered from a base of pig semen?? It is something that is fascinating really - How did anyone come up with it. The first successfulc/s being done by a butcher and now pig semen to induce because of it's potency... I guess some butcher said to the missus - well about time junior was born - let me put someof this in and see if speeds things up. LOL Where do they come up with these things? The mind boggles. Regards Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 11, 2002 14:27:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: Now I've always thought/believed/heard that it is the WOMAN"S orgasm that contributes more prostaglandins than the mans. THoughts? Kirsten - Original Message - From: Terry Garnons-Williams To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: I've been told that it takes five shots of seminal fluid (in quick order) to reach the same doasge as that given to women to induce labour with pharmaceutical PG's And from the stories I've been told, it works beautifully - in LOTS of lovely ways. Cheers! Terry - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: A pig's orgasm lasts 30 minutes. (In my next life, I want to be a pig.)Well, look at that - Now we know why their semen is so potent! I am sure if we can get our men to perform betterthen we canmake the use of prostin obsolete! LOL Rhonda IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] Prostoglandins
In a message dated 11/11/02 3:55:16 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now I thought it was a case of the woman's orgasm causes the uterus to contract very strongly which then if the body and baby are ready, bring on labour. I didn't know that women produced much prostoglandin at all but it is in human men's semen in a lower concentration to that of pigs. Hi Rhonda and all, My understanding is that there are numerous sites of protaglandin production (fetal, maternal, placental) and it is thought that the initation of labour occurs when all these sites are actived at term largely due to contributions from the baby, the placenta and maternal tissues which set about initiating a complex hormonal interplay that triggers labour. cheers Tina P.
FW: [ozmidwifery] Prostoglandins
As my sweet daughter said. who would have thought of it before they thought of it J Sally Westbury -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Rhonda Sent: Monday, 11 November 2002 12:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Prostoglandins Now I thought it was a case of the woman's orgasm causes the uterus to contract very strongly which then if the body and babyare ready, bring on labour. I didn't know that women produced much prostoglandin at all but it is in human men's semen in a lower concentration to thatof pigs. As far as the supply - if it is from pigs they would have a huge supply from the slaughter yards so that would not be a problem. I am not sure noif i am to believe that it is synthhetic or it is synthetically altered from a base of pig semen?? It is something that is fascinating really - How did anyone come up with it. The first successfulc/s being done by a butcher and now pig semen to induce because of it's potency... I guess some butcher said to the missus - well about time junior was born - let me put someof this in and see if speeds things up. LOL Where do they come up with these things? The mind boggles. Regards Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 11, 2002 14:27:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: Now I've always thought/believed/heard that it is the WOMANS orgasm that contributes more prostaglandins than the mans. THoughts? Kirsten - Original Message - From: Terry Garnons-Williams To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: I've been told that it takes five shots of seminal fluid (in quick order) to reach the same doasge as that given to women to induce labour with pharmaceutical PG's And from the stories I've been told, it works beautifully - in LOTS of lovely ways. Cheers! Terry - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW: A pig's orgasm lasts 30 minutes. (In my next life, I want to be a pig.) Well, look at that - Now we know why their semen is so potent! I am sure if we can get our men to perform betterthen we canmake the use of prostin obsolete! LOL Rhonda IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
I had the dubious pleasure of sharing last semester with a group of first year medical students, of which one wished to become an obstetrician, but she couldn't tell me why? They were all in my opinion, abnormally focussed on litigation - this was first years What was really scary was they had no idea - they thought the reason we had the highest intervention and cs rates in Australia was because of our lower socio-economic group women. When I asked if they could explain why the healthiest and most affluent women of our community experience the most intervention they were struck dumb. These young women will be unleashed on the community in approx. 7 years; God help us! Carolyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]"> Hi again all, had an interesting afternoon today at a BBQ with some old work mates...One friend who I worked at CSIRO with eons ago (past life stuff) like me had a radical change in occupation and went to do nursing...she finished her nursing about 8 years agoanyhowshe brought a friend to the BBQ ...a "work colleague" I just assumed this woman was a nurse too...anyhow got chatting as you do...my friend announced to her "work colleague" that I was doing midwifery.So your a nurse too she asked...No...I'm not a nurse doing the new Bachelor of Midwiferybla bla"Direct entry" my friend announcesone of THOSE midwives who think they are not part of the nursing profession. ...Well that went down REAL well...she always did know how to get my hackles up...thought I had educated her better than that...but can see she has been educated by others than just I...:-(( No not "direct entry" I replied...we don't do direct entry nursingor direct entry medicine...or direct law or accounting...bla bla bla..Anyhow ...finally this "work colleague" couldn't resist and announced that she was a MO...doing her internshipand wanted to know more about "the likes of you" doing midwifery without nursing first"do you do any physiology???" bla bla bla I guess you can imagine the conversation from there... The conversion progressed quickly back to medicine...I wanted to pick her brains about being a beginning practitioner and her thoughts on the health care system...What struck me immediately was her sheer arrogance and lack of understanding of peopleamazingAccording to her the general public are all "fu-k--- nuff nuffs""parents have no parenting skills".."the public all just want to sue us". She was just fascinated to think that I would even consider private practice as a midwife..."too scary - you must be fu--ing mad!!" and "noone from uni is even considering obs and gynae as its just too risky". This woman is 25 years old and already educated with the 'fear factor'. She stated openly that as doctors they are taught at med school that a "trusting relationship with your patients" is non existent as the patient only looks to the doctor fix up their problems and will sue if they don't..and the doctor looks at the patient thinking all you want is to sue meI was totally blown away by this...oh yeh she says..."its the underlying premise in all that we do"..."we have to always be thinking at every moment...are you the one who is going to make my life hell?" How scary is this folks???These are the obs of the future...This woman has this level of fear ingrained into her already..I couldn't believe what I was hearingI was almost lost for words...beleive it or not! Ahhh I said..."that's where midwives have it all over doctorsour basic premise is trustfor if we can't establish our professional relationships on thatlike you guys are discovering...when it all comes tumbling downyou have nothing else" Trust and communication.two important factors in not getting sued I'd reckon..but hey who am Ionly a "nuf nuff" in her eyes... Cheers Tina P.
