Re: [ozmidwifery] DISHEARTENED ANGRY AND ASHAMED
Dear Sue, Thanks for sharing and I understand your anger. How on earth can those people call themselves professionals. Midwives - ha! Appalling for you all. Love Leigh - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 2:27 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] DISHEARTENED ANGRY AND ASHAMED Hi all, Am writing my last missive to this list but would love some replies before I sign off. I was in attendance at a Christmas day birth. 41 week 34 year old primip, everything normal in pregnancy, but endured severe pain in early labour and was unable to 'break through' this. So, 24 hrs after SRM, and 12 hours of severe pain, 3 cms and needing help. Light mec with some tachchardia. Arrival at hospital at 7.30 am First midwife (older and 'very experienced') declared baby to be either breech or OP. Wee in this cup she demanded to a woman who was screaming in pain. Lie here then and examined her through a contraction ...probably OP ... Next came the Resident who asked the woman how tall she was. 5'2 was the reply - Well your husband had a big head so there is probably disproportion, and baby will not fit through. Our request was simply for an epidural for pain relief. Next doctor arrived, the registrar who said I will order an epidural, a syntocinon drip and antibiotics (the latter because she was prolonged rupture of membranes). We just want pain relief was her answer - no to routine antibiotics and routine synto. So what are you going to do, he asked, just lie about all day? Next midwife on duty had been an independent midwife for 10 years. She repeated the request about 10 times to have synto set up - this with a baby whose heartrate was incredibly variable, and whose contractions had remained very strong throughout. Fresh mec appeared on and off. Catheterised with a bag against our request - we were happy for the catheter to be inserted and removed, but not left in. I can't take it out, says the ex homebirth midwife, because I might need to catheterise you again. To cut a long story short, all we asked for was 4 hours of pain relief followed by a period of being active, maybe cutting down or out the epidural, and assessing progress. Such a big request?? ( I had experienced a similar situation only a few weeks before with a wonderful outcome of baby being born vaginally and home 3 hours later - same hospital, next door room) The ex homebirth midwife said she had never seen anyone up and active with an epidural in, and then said the woman failed the 'test'to be able to manage that (left leg was pretty heavy). She could not take responsibility for the woman to be active. We negotiated our way through that ... ambulate at our own risk... Hours later progress was negligible, so we asked for a few more hours, being hassled the entire way about oxytocics. So about 12 hours after admission there, we agreed to a c/section after no progress. We negotiated a lotus birth and that was agreed to. So baby born 8.30 pm Christmas Day by epidural c/section. Apgars 9/9 but baby held at the resus table for 13 mins anyway - after being told that if she was 'pink and screaming' she would go straight to mum. baby then to mum for a brief 'look' then off to wherever. Told she was a little off colour - this followed by a decision to put babe in special care for 4 hours for observation. Luckily lovely midwife had come on duty and took baby out of special care and in to dad's arms until mum was out of recovery and back in her room. Initially told dad could stay there (single room) but when requested a mattress, told dad had to go home (45 mins away) Lotus birth presented a major problem to the staff, who told mum it put them at risk, and in fact wrapped placenta up in industrial waste bag/ toxic waste plastic bag. Second morning slight redness at umbilicus, with streaks up baby's tummy. Baby whisked off to special care nursery and on IV antibiotics. NOTHING has shown up on skin swabs and blood tests done at birth or since. Cord cut off with midwives telling mother how dirty it was ... There are a lot of things I have not included here - the looks, the inferences, the queries about who the support people were, the obs who came in pointing at us asking our names, the sighs, the comments to the mother about 'your type' (funny eh, this couple both work...) This woman was made to feel she could not achieve normal birth, her baby was too big for her, her baby was in a bad position, her requests were unreasonable, her decisions were from poor information, her lotus birth was 'dirty' and a health hazard. She gave birth to a 7lb 5oz baby who was presenting OT. No obvious reasons for failing to get past 4 cms. I am totally disheartened at how little movement the 'normal/natural' birth movement has made in the medicalised system of childbirth in the last 22 years. The midwives who took part in the birth were
RE: [ozmidwifery] Silly water birth policies
Dear Andrea I too have been faced with the no bath policy at RPA - except there was a plug in the room - so the woman filled the bath regardless of their policy. I faced an even more serious problem at the same hospital. A woman I was caring for was booked to give birth at RPA birth centre but had heavily stained meconium liquor - so following policy we rang the labour ward and was told that they were full and we couldn't come in. We were redirected to Canterbury Hospital. When we arrived at Canterbury Hospital we were told this was the forth time this has happened and the new unit had only been open for 2 weeks at the time. Cheers Jane Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond Caring, Professional Midwifery Services Sydney Visit http://www.pregnancy.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Friday, 3 January 2003 12:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Silly water birth policies Remember the hoo-ha when the plugs were removed from the baths in The Royal Womens Hospital in Brisbane! Well, the silly policy season has struck again - I have just been to a birth at the new RPA Womens and Babies Hospital (was King George V) and in their labour ward they have lovely big baths but no-one is allowed to use them - it is not policy and to make sure, there are no plugs!! I've written the whole saga up in a Diary entry, http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/index.html so won't do it all again here, but be warned, if you are going to RPA, take a plug with you and be prepared for a battle! Cheers Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Good Fiddle
Wow Aviva -havent heard that oen for a while - my Dad's saying too! Pinky - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] '52 was a good year Yes, Judy. Or, like a Stradivarius violin, we keep on getting better. My mother used to say (among many other things) Many a good tune played on an old fiddle. :-) 8 Aviva - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 2:17 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] '52 was a good year I would have to agree with you Aviva. Mind you I could be prejudiced.Good like a great bottle of wine. Mature and smooth. Judy --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 25/12/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Human rights/women's rights/rigid policies
Another thing to remember is to keep copies of anything you send/write - these types of letters are notorious for 'disappearing' withing the mire of process. It is important to also cc relevant documentation from your perspective to ALL of the relevant people in each department, also to Human Rights/Health Rights, ACMI, union so all key people are made aware of the situation concurrently. The cc's to hospital personnel let the hospital staff know you are serious and concerned enough to take the issue further, because it's amazing how the ranks close, and how rarely constructive actions result. It has worked for me in the past and good solutions were found that met all peoples needs for many years following just one incident. Keep the fires burning Sue - it IS worth it, even though it doesn'e seem to be at the moment. The tiredness from repeatedly having to 'fight' for women and the sheer bloody frustration is a killer (of passion, of belief and of midwives) at times. There are ways to make changes and you are and have been a very significant part of what has been achieved.(:-} - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Human rights/women's rights/rigid policies Hi Sue, I intend to focus on the basic issues such as personal freedoms, women's rights, patient's rights etc. Policies are not mandates, but guidelines - and common sense should prevail. In the end, if women are treated better they will be less likely to sue as a final resort in difficult circumstances. The underlying problem we both faced was that the staff were fearful because of their own lack of skills and so they reacted defensively. Hospitals cannot afford to employ underskilled people who lack basic midwifery know-how because it places their institutions at risk (of catastophes and of being sued). It is the hospital's responsibility to make sure that staff are well trained and competent, and I think that midwives have some of that responsibility as well, especially if they want to be employed. Perhaps you could include some of these ideas in your letter. The emotional stuff must go in as well, because it is valid and points to the trauma you suffered as a result of the staff's actions. I remember the story that went around a couple of years ago about how the policy on water births in Lismore Hospital was changed when one couple made it clear (in writing) during the labour, that if the plug was pulled in the bath, she would sue. It took a week for the policy to be removed. This story really cheered everyone up at the time and was a good example of how action is sometimes needed to force and issue. Perhaps you can devise a similar strategy for women who plan hospital births in your area if your letter and other feedback doesn't do the trick. THe only way to get experience is to have practice, so forcing the issue may be a roundabout way of making sure they get the practice (and experience)! As I read your story, it seemed that lack of communication and listening to the woman's requests was the heart of the matter. You don't need data and research to back a complaint about this - you just need to let them know how the woman (and you) felt about it. I would include the direct quotes from your message in the letter you sent and also the comments about the looks you received and the impressions created. Feelings and emotions cannot be denied, because they are real. No-one can say that you didn't feel them, because you did. I wonder if a face-to-face meeting with the midwives and doctors that were invovled would help? It may sound too daunting, but unless they get the feedback they may never know how you felt, and their managers may never raise these issues with them. A meeting like this may enable you to resolve some of your own feelings and if you stick to I messages, and make assertive, not aggressive statements, then it may have some useful outcomes. May be another way to tackle this issue? Hope some of this helps - and I hope you can begin to resolve some of your grief through taking some appropriate action. Best wishes with the struggle. we are allwith you on this one! Warm regards, Andrea At 05:44 PM 6/01/2003, Sue Cookson wrote: Hi Andrea, Thankyou for your lovely words and some help in the direction I can take here. Do you have specific information/data/policies you will be referring to when writing to the hospital re your recent awful circumstance? I would really like to include information other than the emotive stuff I felt. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE
[ozmidwifery] Re: Vietnam Veteran Entertainers
Dear Caroline, Happy New Year! May 2003 be a spectacularly successful, happy and healthy year for you. Thank you for the email...Iam forwarding this reply complete with your message to the ozmidwifery list. Best wishes, Aviva - Original Message - From: Caroline Winnall To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Vietnam Veteran Entertainers Aviva,I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and New Year break. In one of your last emails you mentioned that you had a friend who was a midwife and new women with lots of amazing "if only" stories. As it now stands we will be making a trip down to Adelaide to film some stories. Therefore, if any women feel they have an interesting "If only" story they would like to share on camera I would love to hear from them. Following is a short brief on the show:The new SBS documentary series, "if only" includes the real life stories of people who have a regret or unease about an event or decision in their past. Perhaps they are looking for resolution or perhaps they simply wonder what would have happened "if only" they had/hadn't done a certain thing.We are looking for a mixture of serious and light-hearted stories. The stories will be filmed in a sensitive documentary style and will only include material that the participants are happy for us to use.If anyone is interested in contacting me they can either email [EMAIL PROTECTED] or phone on (02) 9430 3908.Thank you AvivaKind Regards,Caroline WinnallResearcher"if only"SBS Televisionph: 61 2 9430 3908fax: 61 2 9438 1590 "Aviva Sheb'a" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/12/02 09:59pm Dear Ms Winnall,I understand you are looking for stories. Rather than waffle on here, here's a link to my web site. http://www.chariot.net.au/~aviva I'd be delighted to hear from you if you are interested. Best wishes,Aviva Sheb'a3/64 Charles StreetNorwood SA 5067tel/fax: (08) 8333 2762[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Human rights/women's rights/rigid policies
Ladies you might want to check to see if the hospitals concerned are signatories to the Women's Friendly Hospital Policy. Although I did point this policy out to RWH Brisbane who are signatories to it and the only person who really applied the criteria in it was the head of midwifery services who finally arranged for me the care which I wanted. The Women's Health Nurse Practitioner Policy also makes an interesting read.
http://www.wha.asn.au/pub_women_friendly_hosp.htm
Debby
From: Sue Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Human rights/women's rights/rigid policies
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 17:44:29 +1100
Hi Andrea,
Thankyou for your lovely words and some help in the direction I can take
here. Do you have specific information/data/policies you will be referring
to when writing to the hospital re your recent awful circumstance? I would
really like to include information other than the emotive stuff I felt.
Many thanks,
Sue
Hello Sue,
We are all aching in our hearts from reading you story- it is one we all
have encountered and it is intensley frustrating, harrowing, unfair and
inhumane.
Last week I accompanied a friend of mine to a birth in our local hospital
and the staff we ecnountered there were awful. The parents have called the
initial midwife who greeted us "the Russian Hitler" - she behaved in
excatly the same ways that you described. I was considering how we were
going to get rid of her anf find another one when a Kiwi midwife arrived -
plain sailing from there on.
I am going to write to the hospital today to describe what I see as
violations of human rights. I will be pointing out the specific problems we
encountered and requesting that they immediately update their staff on
women's rights, the legalities of rigid policies, basic skills that enable
women to remain upright and active while checks are done and improving
communication. If nothing changes rapidly, then I am prepared to take this
a lot further
Perhaps you could do the same. You have already written your letter (to the
list) and it would be easy to send it to the hospital - several departments
so that they cannot fob you off. If no-one knows what went on, they cannot
do anything about it, and you owe it to them to point out what a tricky
legal position they are potentially creating for themselves. Sending them
your report will also help you to feel that you have done something
positive and that some good may come from this terrible experience.
I hope that with a bit of space and time to recover (and more debriefing if
necessary) you'll feel strong enough to keep going in some way. Women can't
afford to lose advocates like yourself, and we are all poorer as a
community when the caring souls and sensitive beings depart the scene.
There will be some good that comes out of this experience .
With best wishes,
Andrea
At 09:44 AM 6/01/2003, Sue Cookson wrote:
Hi Lieve,
Just thought I'd respond to your comment about not going with couples into
hospital - I take it that means if a transfer is needed.
In 1995 a policy was brought in that any health professional could report
anyone to the Department of Community Services, it seems that birthing
unassisted or attended by anyone but a registered midwife is putting your
baby 'at risk' and warrants reporting, as does {dirty} lotus births and
probably a range of other things - maybe not taking all the 'advice' you are
bullied into will become one. This did occur to one couple I know of
earlier this year, and DOCS, as underfunded and overworked as they are, did
visit the couple who now have a permanent file on themselves.
We all know that there is no law in Australia to make it illegal for couples
to choose to give birth on their own or with chosen support people like
there is I believe in France, and has been in England. But as I said in my
initial letter of grief to this ozmid line, the blinkered beliefs of the
medicalised system of childbirths leads to all sorts of bother for those of
us who wish to negotiate our way through the maze of ritualised medical
assault. Reporting couples to DOCS is another form of that.
So if the couple is accompanied harassment can occur. If the couple is not
accompanied, ... same thing... in this area anyway. And having supported
another couple in the same hospital only 2 weeks before to a terrific birth
well supported by the medical team, I wasn't too worried about staying with
them.
I have over the years attended quite a few hospital births, but believe me,
this one was the worst of the worst.
Sue
Dear Sue,
I think I understand your feelings trough and through. I worked in a
hospital for 20 years . They kicked me out because I was always
fighting
Re: [ozmidwifery] DISHEARTENED ANGRY AND ASHAMED
Dear Sue: I have just gotten back on the list after travelling to the USA in December. My heart aches for you. The need of the staff to get antibiotics into the baby is reminiscent to me of transfers that happened in California with PROM and no maternal IV antibiotics. They always came up with multiple reasons to give the baby IV antibiotics and also would do a heel stick for blood glucose and need to administer either formula or IV dextrose. There seems to be litttle respect for parent's choice in this matter. In fact I knew of one midwife who in discussing GBS with women would recommend the IV antibiotics in labour (if the woman was GBS+)because if we had to transfer the hospital staff would not be concerned about dosing the baby with IV antibiotics postnatally. We could administer IV antibiotics in labour at home in Washington (standing orders from consulting doc) but if parents don't consent then that is that. Please do what you need to, to take care of yourself. I haven't met you yet but feel like I know you. Lieve, Andrea and Julie all have wonderful advice/ideas. personally I will miss your input so much if you do sign off. So, I do hope you reconsider or sign back on soon. Much love and support marilyn - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 8:27 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] DISHEARTENED ANGRY AND ASHAMED Hi all, Am writing my last missive to this list but would love some replies before I sign off. I was in attendance at a Christmas day birth. 41 week 34 year old primip, everything normal in pregnancy, but endured severe pain in early labour and was unable to 'break through' this. So, 24 hrs after SRM, and 12 hours of severe pain, 3 cms and needing help. Light mec with some tachchardia. Arrival at hospital at 7.30 am First midwife (older and 'very experienced') declared baby to be either breech or OP. Wee in this cup she demanded to a woman who was screaming in pain. Lie here then and examined her through a contraction ...probably OP ... Next came the Resident who asked the woman how tall she was. 5'2 was the reply - Well your husband had a big head so there is probably disproportion, and baby will not fit through. Our request was simply for an epidural for pain relief. Next doctor arrived, the registrar who said I will order an epidural, a syntocinon drip and antibiotics (the latter because she was prolonged rupture of membranes). We just want pain relief was her answer - no to routine antibiotics and routine synto. So what are you going to do, he asked, just lie about all day? Next midwife on duty had been an independent midwife for 10 years. She repeated the request about 10 times to have synto set up - this with a baby whose heartrate was incredibly variable, and whose contractions had remained very strong throughout. Fresh mec appeared on and off. Catheterised with a bag against our request - we were happy for the catheter to be inserted and removed, but not left in. I can't take it out, says the ex homebirth midwife, because I might need to catheterise you again. To cut a long story short, all we asked for was 4 hours of pain relief followed by a period of being active, maybe cutting down or out the epidural, and assessing progress. Such a big request?? ( I had experienced a similar situation only a few weeks before with a wonderful outcome of baby being born vaginally and home 3 hours later - same hospital, next door room) The ex homebirth midwife said she had never seen anyone up and active with an epidural in, and then said the woman failed the 'test'to be able to manage that (left leg was pretty heavy). She could not take responsibility for the woman to be active. We negotiated our way through that ... ambulate at our own risk... Hours later progress was negligible, so we asked for a few more hours, being hassled the entire way about oxytocics. So about 12 hours after admission there, we agreed to a c/section after no progress. We negotiated a lotus birth and that was agreed to. So baby born 8.30 pm Christmas Day by epidural c/section. Apgars 9/9 but baby held at the resus table for 13 mins anyway - after being told that if she was 'pink and screaming' she would go straight to mum. baby then to mum for a brief 'look' then off to wherever. Told she was a little off colour - this followed by a decision to put babe in special care for 4 hours for observation. Luckily lovely midwife had come on duty and took baby out of special care and in to dad's arms until mum was out of recovery and back in her room. Initially told dad could stay there (single room) but when requested a mattress, told dad had to go home (45 mins away) Lotus birth presented a major problem to the staff, who told mum it put them at risk, and in fact wrapped placenta up in industrial waste bag/ toxic waste plastic bag. Second morning slight redness at umbilicus, with streaks up
