[ozmidwifery] Science, mothering, pelvic exams and wonderment - long
Hello all, haven't been on the lists of late, life had caught up with me. I logged on to send off this following item, as I thought most of you would be interested. The Science of Mother Love: Is Science Catching Up to Mother's Wisdom? By Cori Young http://www.mothering.com/9-0-0/html/9-9-0/mother-love.shtml and then came across all the fascinating conversations that poured into my email in box... I've introduced myself before, and because I haven't been around for a while, I better do so again. My name is Carolyn Hastie, passionate advocate of women centred maternity care and healthy workplaces. I am a mother, grandmother, midwife, educator and writer (etc - sure I have many other labels, those will do :-) I wanted to comment on Lieve's amazing loving care to her clients. Kahlil Gibran wrote work is love made visible. And so it is. How blessed we all are to have this stunning example of what is possible with midwifery care. The issue of learning vaginal examinations is an interesting one too. I'm not sure which list this topic was on now, so will keep on going here. In every medical school, medical students learnt VE's with anaesthetised women. In Newcastle in the 80's the medical school stopped the practice and students learnt with conscious women who were/are paid to teach the students and give feedback about their manner, communication style and technique. The students had an informal discussion with the women before the clinical practice session. The women explored ideas about respect, privacy and VE's, speculums and pap smears with the students. Sexual abuse issues were also discussed. Following the discussion, each woman took about six students and talked each of them through as they practiced doing vaginal examinations, both digitally and with a speculum. I thought this was such a great way of teaching students, I became an instructor. It was an interesting time as this was a very new idea. There was a lot of negativity about it, the nuns called it prostitution. I also dislike pap smears and vaginal examinations at the best of times, so a big commitment for me. My attitude was that it was far better for the students to practice on women (such as me) who could actively teach them, than have it happen to women without their consent or even with their 'consent' obtained in vulnerable situations. In situations with labouring women and midwifery students, I always discussed/discuss the idea of a vaginal examination with the women, without the student being present - with the woman in a standing or otherwise upright position - positioning is so much part of the power dynamic. If the women show the slightest hesitation, I go no further with the discussion. I examine first, telling both the student and the woman what I can feel as I go and asking her for feedback. Then, if the woman is still ok about it, the student examines the woman and describes what she/he feels as she/he goes. If the woman's experience of my examination has been at all painful, there is no student examination. It is a challenge with teaching students, as it is very very rare that I find it necessary to undertake a vaginal examination on a labouring woman. The woman is also thanked very sincerely for her generosity. in solidarity, (thanks to the amazing Justine who never fails to flabbergast me with her energy, activity and commitment to the cause) Carolyn Hastie I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller 1880-1968, Author and Lecturer Heartlogic Consultancy Leaders in personal mastery and healthy organisational change Phone +61 2 4389 3919 Fax +61 2 4388 6819 Mobile 0418 428 430 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO Box 5405 Chittaway Bay NSW 2261 Australia -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] crystal therapy
Dear Denise, Sorry I am late responding to you. One of the student midwives at work has my books at the moment so I have to wait until I get them back. Im sure it was in the "Nature of Birth and Breastfeeding". Will let you know soon. Kind regards Jennie. - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] crystal therapy Dear Jennie I forgot to ask for the reference for your great quote from Michel Odent Thank you Denise - Original Message - From: pjwant To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] crystal therapy Dear Denise, EM in Queensland means endorsed midwife. Perhaps I did not explain myself properly. I believe many of us see pathological pain states in labour more often than we care to admit. I believe thisoccurs because most of us in Australia work in pathological birth environments where there is a lack of endorphins between midwives and midwives; midwives and mothers; doctors and midwives; doctors and mothers. Particularly where the woman feels intimidated, frightened, where there is no trust, no continuity of care; no informed consent;no love in the medicine.. Odent helps me to understand this fully when hesays"women can undilate with one unkind glanceHe states "If the method of the mammals be inefficient in any particular instance there must always be teams capable of doing epidurals to compensate for the lack of endorphins; to use drips to compensate for a deficiency of hormones from the posterior pituitary; to perform cesarean sections to rescue babies in distressbut it should not become the usual way to be born".By saying this it could be said thatheis inadvertantly supportingthese methods.However you and I know that this is not the case. He legitimises the womens pain because the environmentis so pathological in comparison to what the normal birth processrequires. On more occasions thenwe care to admit, many midwives in the hospital environmentfeel powerless tokeep a safe space for the woman; to allow the complex cascade of hormones to be released in the womanstime and not ourtime; to limit the use ofabusive language to women. All to often we succumb to thepatriacial domination of the environment in which we all work. The use of the language "severe pathological pain" occurs in Oxorn and Foote (1986) The authorsrefer to this pain state being associatedwith"a malpresentation; or when the uterine action is abnormal as in the incoordinate uterus, wherethe propagation wave does not start at the pacemaker part of the uterus.They talk about "cervical dystocia, obstructed labours, contractile waves with inverted gradients where the normal contraction begins in the lower segment and moves upward. The polarity of the uterus is reversed and the is no effacement or dilatation of the cervix. Pain may be present all the time and is out of proportion with the intensity of the contractions". We have all seen women like this and some of us have not appreciated the extent of their pain because it does not show up on the monitor, or we cannot palpated the contractions; or they arejust prostin pains. These women are deemed not in labour, therefore it does not legitamise their pain. Denise as you have inferred, and I wholeheartedly support,the environment is notconducive tonormal birth. My continuation on this note is that the womans pain does become pathological in many instances and does require extraordinary means to releive it because the environment for birth is so abnormal."Failure to progress" becomes the physical manifestation of a woman who is spiritually unsupported. It is these above situations that I am referring to when I am describing pathological pain states. It is my belief that it is our lack of continuity of care that is utimately responsible for why pethidine and epidurals become so necessary to some women and many midwives. I can not remember the last time I initiated the use of pethidine or epidural to a birthing women. I am fortunatethat the births I oftenattend are unmedicated and normal. I put the hard yards in, I dont deliver obstetric solutions from the desk. I strive to be totally connected to the energy surrounding the birth .I once had a birth bag which carriedthe odd bit of aromotherapy, rescue remedy, crystalsI wish to reestablish these modalities in a legitimate way On a positive note I delivered my first baby 3 years agoat the Birth Centre at the Royal
Re: [ozmidwifery] Science, mothering, pelvic exams and wonderment- long
Hey Carolyn good to see you back!! Now In Solidarity is one thing, but volunteering for VE's you never cease to amaze me! It's sooo good to be back in the Hunter, I'm hoping for great things. Justine Hello all, haven't been on the lists of late, life had caught up with me. I logged on to send off this following item, as I thought most of you would be interested. The Science of Mother Love: Is Science Catching Up to Mother's Wisdom? By Cori Young http://www.mothering.com/9-0-0/html/9-9-0/mother-love.shtml and then came across all the fascinating conversations that poured into my email in box... I've introduced myself before, and because I haven't been around for a while, I better do so again. My name is Carolyn Hastie, passionate advocate of women centred maternity care and healthy workplaces. I am a mother, grandmother, midwife, educator and writer (etc - sure I have many other labels, those will do :-) I wanted to comment on Lieve's amazing loving care to her clients. Kahlil Gibran wrote work is love made visible. And so it is. How blessed we all are to have this stunning example of what is possible with midwifery care. The issue of learning vaginal examinations is an interesting one too. I'm not sure which list this topic was on now, so will keep on going here. In every medical school, medical students learnt VE's with anaesthetised women. In Newcastle in the 80's the medical school stopped the practice and students learnt with conscious women who were/are paid to teach the students and give feedback about their manner, communication style and technique. The students had an informal discussion with the women before the clinical practice session. The women explored ideas about respect, privacy and VE's, speculums and pap smears with the students. Sexual abuse issues were also discussed. Following the discussion, each woman took about six students and talked each of them through as they practiced doing vaginal examinations, both digitally and with a speculum. I thought this was such a great way of teaching students, I became an instructor. It was an interesting time as this was a very new idea. There was a lot of negativity about it, the nuns called it prostitution. I also dislike pap smears and vaginal examinations at the best of times, so a big commitment for me. My attitude was that it was far better for the students to practice on women (such as me) who could actively teach them, than have it happen to women without their consent or even with their 'consent' obtained in vulnerable situations. In situations with labouring women and midwifery students, I always discussed/discuss the idea of a vaginal examination with the women, without the student being present - with the woman in a standing or otherwise upright position - positioning is so much part of the power dynamic. If the women show the slightest hesitation, I go no further with the discussion. I examine first, telling both the student and the woman what I can feel as I go and asking her for feedback. Then, if the woman is still ok about it, the student examines the woman and describes what she/he feels as she/he goes. If the woman's experience of my examination has been at all painful, there is no student examination. It is a challenge with teaching students, as it is very very rare that I find it necessary to undertake a vaginal examination on a labouring woman. The woman is also thanked very sincerely for her generosity. in solidarity, (thanks to the amazing Justine who never fails to flabbergast me with her energy, activity and commitment to the cause) Carolyn Hastie I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller 1880-1968, Author and Lecturer Heartlogic Consultancy Leaders in personal mastery and healthy organisational change Phone +61 2 4389 3919 Fax +61 2 4388 6819 Mobile 0418 428 430 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO Box 5405 Chittaway Bay NSW 2261 Australia -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] bonus babies
I have an email from a mum of a bonus baby (her 25 year old daughter has a baby 6 weeks younger) who is a bit islolated - as tends to happen sometimes -her "old" friends thought she was crazy to have this baby and have drifted away and she feels -not much in common with young mums in mums groups -anyone here on central coast NSW with any suggestions/ contacts/ resources? Pinky www.pinky-mychild.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] pelvic exams
Hi Jo, Whilst I was a student midwife, we had little plastic/vinyl 'blocks' that you were able to perform VE's on, each block had a different dilation and you were asked to estimate dilation etc. These were available at anytime to 'test yourself'. Also on the wards unlike previous info that we have been shown that student doctors are performing them on unconscious clients, we had to approach the mother to request her permission - I had an extremely hard time doing this, as it meant that I was doing one, then the midwife and/or doctor would also perform one, that goes way against my own beliefs. I felt that once is enough. Some mothers were ok and allowed it, but the majority did refuse, and I can't say I blame them either. Hope this answers your question. -- Yours in Childbirth and with the Love of Friendship Rita «¤¤ÐÈ£ÏVÊR¥·WÓMÄѤ¤» Mother of David 13, Haydie 11, Alysha 10 and Baby Tyler 8 months Registered Nurse, Student Midwife (currently in hiatus due to injury), Aspiring CBE and Doula - Original Message From: Jo Dean Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] pelvic exams Date: 18/03/03 08:50 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] QUOTE OF THE WEEK
We are accustomed to thinking that we know what we know from what we have observed, but it is just as true that how we practice sets up what is observable in the first place. Barbara Katz Rothman in Midwifery Today
[ozmidwifery] Midwifery Today
There are some interesting articles in the M.T about post dates.www.midwiferytoday/enews/enews/0506.asp Click on for the full online edition. MM
RE: [ozmidwifery] bonus babies
Title: Message what about the Australian Breastfeeding Assoc Pinky??? Even if she isnt feeing, they are a great support for mums of any age Cheers (and biased) Tina new student midwife ABA counsellor -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pinky McKaySent: Tuesday, 18 March 2003 9:51 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] bonus babies I have an email from a mum of a bonus baby (her 25 year old daughter has a baby 6 weeks younger) who is a bit islolated - as tends to happen sometimes -her "old" friends thought she was crazy to have this baby and have drifted away and she feels -not much in common with young mums in mums groups -anyone here on central coast NSW with any suggestions/ contacts/ resources? Pinky www.pinky-mychild.com
[ozmidwifery] VBAC
www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/dozen.aspA really great article by Nancy Wainer . Called "A Butchers Dozen"
[ozmidwifery] Merriwa Interest
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Community meeting Good morning Justine You don't know me however I always read your emails with interest - not only for their content but also because I grew up and was educated in Merriwa. Then left and lived in London for 2 1/2 yrs before doing my general training in Sydney at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, followed by midwifery training at Box Hill hospital, am currently doing midwifery at the Angliss hospital in Ferntree Gully. We have approx 2300 deliveries per yr. also offer the women several options of obstetric care, ie., Family Birth centre, CMC which is managed by midwives from Dr. rooms, both are very popular and have extremely good stats. You are certainly a busy person and best wishes for continued sucess, Hope all is well in Merriwa and have good rains, Margot Brewer.
RE: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
Peace to you all on this journey. Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife Birth is as safe as life gets. --Harriett Hartigan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] FW: Holland Statistics
Title: Re: Holland Statistics Hi all You may recall I have asked for ideas on how to get statistics on birthing in Holland. I emailed Beatrijs Smulders and received the response from her husband below. I decided to pass this response on to the ozmid list in case anyone else is keen to have the Dutch Royal College of Midwives email address also. hug Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224 T. (02) 9544 6441 F (02) 9544 9257 M. 0401 265 530 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Beatrijs Smulders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 17 March 2003 9:46 PM To: Julie Clarke Subject: Re: Holland Statistics Dear Julie, I am Beatrijs' husband Roel and I am writing you on behalf of her. She is at the moment abroad and not able to answer your mail. She is lately very bussy and I am afraid I must tell you tot turn to someone else to get the statistcs. Please mail the Dutch Royal College of midwives, they can help you for sure! [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wish you good luck with your important work! Roel van Dalen.
