RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
I was thinking the same today, Abby. The list seems to have changed. It wasn't all that long ago we would have been discussing how not to give hepb, but just last week the topic was when to give it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 29 May 2006 5:59 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006) Hi, I do find this totally horrifying, but not any more so than most the stuff OBs and midwives use on a regular basis already in hospitals. In recent times it seems that not many on the Ozmid list raise their voices in response to the ways, techniques and instruments used in the abuse of women and their rights in childbirth. Sort of speaks of the whole birthing scene in this country, midwives in hospitals too scared to speak out against things that fellow care providers are doing to birthing women. To be perfectly honest about this new contraption, it seems way less of an atroscity than cutting a womans yoni open while she lays on a back with a bunch of people standing by! Love Abby ~ who, can't believe the horrible things she reads and hears of the way women are treated in our hospitals while trying to birth their baby's!! Alesa Koziol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Andrea point taken -I was mindful of the copyright requests however..I am sending this to the list again. Originally posted on Friday with no feedback. Are there no others in the oz community horrified by the idea of this devise? Do we not have enough technology invading normal birth already? A timely reminder perhaps in light of the current thread on CTG is that they too were introduced widely with little research to validate their wide spread value yet have been grasped by the legal community as an all seeing tool - a tool which now governs a lot of 'normal' or 'routine' clinical practice. My thoughts Alesa Alesa Koziol Clinical Midwifery Educator Melbourne - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006) Hi Alesa, Perhaps next time, just cut and paste the relevant section - I find these loo...ong bulletins impossible to wade through! However, I know Debby well and I've done workshops at her hospital. They have the only birth centre in Israel and are a terrific bunch of strong women and midwifery advocates. I am glad she has raised this issue. The thought of this technology is truly awful and I am sure that women will not want to use it if they are fully informed. Reminds me of a gadget that was tested at one of the UK's biggest midwifery hospitals a few years ago: it was a huge belt that was wrapped around the woman's tummy at the start of second stage and then inflated to push the baby down if the woman couldn't push due to having an epidural. You can imagine how the midwives felt about having to be part of the trials. As far as I know, this particular gadget didn't make it to the manufacturing stage, so perhaps this one that Debby speaks of won't either. Who dreams up these ideas? Dare I say it - men, probably! Regards, Andrea MIDWIFERY TODAY E-NEWS A publication of Midwifery Today, Inc. Volume 8, Issue 11, May 24, 2006 Postdates Pregnancies ~~ A high tech company called Barnev (www.barnev.co.il/) is currently manufacturing a product called a computerized labor monitoring system. This product works by placing two clips with electrodes on a laboring woman's cervix and a scalp electrode on the fetus and using ultrasound waves to measure cervical dilation and height (descent) of the fetal head. I am aware of this product because of clinical trials were held at the hospital with which I am affiliated. In spite of the midwives' opposition to using this mechanical device on women, we were not able to totally block its use (although some changes were made in the informed consent, and many women did not agree to participate due to midwives' explaining to them what was involved). The trials were moved to other hospitals where the midwives were not as vocal in their opposition, and now the company is promoting use in Europe and the US. I understand that they have received or will be receiving Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval. The product is being promoted as a means to assess women's progress in labor without a manual vaginal examination. I believe that this product takes advantage of and potentially harms women and their babies in labor, all for the purpose of economically profiting a biotech company. I believe that steps need to be taken at a higher level regarding the ethical considerations. How do E-News readers suggest that I
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
I think there is a witch hunt beginning quietly in the background and midwives are being a bit reticent about speaking out. Look behind you, the might be a Cassius standing there with a knife. m I was thinking the same today, Abby. The list seems to have changed. It wasn't all that long ago we would have been discussing how not to give hepb, but just last week the topic was when to give it. In recent times it seems that not many on the Ozmid list raise their voices in response to the ways, techniques and instruments used in the abuse of women and their rights in childbirth. Sort of speaks of the whole birthing scene in this country, midwives in hospitals too scared to speak out against things that fellow care providers are doing to birthing women. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
Signals from disposable sensors located on the maternal cervix and fetal head objectifies the examination process Is there actually a woman and a baby involved in this birth? M , -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
Abby for President I love your work! J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - PostdatesPregnancies (May 24, 2006)
It would be VERY interesting to hear how this is explained to women. I can imagine the minifisms herejust a little clip that sits on your cervix, and one that sits on the baby's head etc. Located is an interesting word for screwed in or the sensor pirecing the baby's scalp. Forgive me if I am wrong - I know nothing about this device, but how DOES it stay in place? You should read Orly Sachar's work Mary. Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:16 PM Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - PostdatesPregnancies (May 24, 2006) Signals from disposable sensors located on the maternal cervix and fetal head objectifies the examination process Is there actually a woman and a baby involved in this birth? M , -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - PostdatesPregnancies (May 24, 2006)
As a follow on from the message I just posted, I'd love to know how women in the ACTOBAC trial are being informed about the short and long term consequences of CS. - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:16 PM Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - PostdatesPregnancies (May 24, 2006) Signals from disposable sensors located on the maternal cervix and fetal head objectifies the examination process Is there actually a woman and a baby involved in this birth? M , -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Orly Sachar
To all who might be interested, here is the link to his work. Regards, Lynne http://www.pantaneto.co.uk/issue2/shachar.htm - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:06 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Orly Sachar Could you give me some titles? I haven't found this name on my google search. You should read Orly Sachar's work Mary. Regards, Lynne . -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
I for one am sick and tired of all the artificial machines, gadgets and procedures that are dreamed-up as some magical method to improve on normal birth. The birthing process is designed to work perfectly most of the the time so lets keep our interferring hands off until there is a medical indication!! Leanne. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 From: Ken Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 18:12:00 +1000 I was thinking the same today, Abby. The list seems to have changed. It wasn't all that long ago we would have been discussing how not to give hepb, but just last week the topic was when to give it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 29 May 2006 5:59 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006) Hi, I do find this totally horrifying, but not any more so than most the stuff OBs and midwives use on a regular basis already in hospitals. In recent times it seems that not many on the Ozmid list raise their voices in response to the ways, techniques and instruments used in the abuse of women and their rights in childbirth. Sort of speaks of the whole birthing scene in this country, midwives in hospitals too scared to speak out against things that fellow care providers are doing to birthing women. To be perfectly honest about this new contraption, it seems way less of an atroscity than cutting a womans yoni open while she lays on a back with a bunch of people standing by! Love Abby ~ who, can't believe the horrible things she reads and hears of the way women are treated in our hospitals while trying to birth their baby's!! Alesa Koziol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Andrea point taken -I was mindful of the copyright requests however..I am sending this to the list again. Originally posted on Friday with no feedback. Are there no others in the oz community horrified by the idea of this devise? Do we not have enough technology invading normal birth already? A timely reminder perhaps in light of the current thread on CTG is that they too were introduced widely with little research to validate their wide spread value yet have been grasped by the legal community as an all seeing tool - a tool which now governs a lot of 'normal' or 'routine' clinical practice. My thoughts Alesa Alesa Koziol Clinical Midwifery Educator Melbourne - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006) Hi Alesa, Perhaps next time, just cut and paste the relevant section - I find these loo...ong bulletins impossible to wade through! However, I know Debby well and I've done workshops at her hospital. They have the only birth centre in Israel and are a terrific bunch of strong women and midwifery advocates. I am glad she has raised this issue. The thought of this technology is truly awful and I am sure that women will not want to use it if they are fully informed. Reminds me of a gadget that was tested at one of the UK's biggest midwifery hospitals a few years ago: it was a huge belt that was wrapped around the woman's tummy at the start of second stage and then inflated to push the baby down if the woman couldn't push due to having an epidural. You can imagine how the midwives felt about having to be part of the trials. As far as I know, this particular gadget didn't make it to the manufacturing stage, so perhaps this one that Debby speaks of won't either. Who dreams up these ideas? Dare I say it - men, probably! Regards, Andrea MIDWIFERY TODAY E-NEWS A publication of Midwifery Today, Inc. Volume 8, Issue 11, May 24, 2006 Postdates Pregnancies ~~ A high tech company called Barnev (www.barnev.co.il/) is currently manufacturing a product called a computerized labor monitoring system. This product works by placing two clips with electrodes on a laboring woman's cervix and a scalp electrode on the fetus and using ultrasound waves to measure cervical dilation and height (descent) of the fetal head. I am aware of this product because of clinical trials were held at the hospital with which I am affiliated. In spite of the midwives' opposition to using this mechanical device on women, we were not able to totally block its use (although some changes were made in the informed consent, and many women did not agree to participate due to midwives' explaining to them what was involved). The trials were moved
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
Well, how can we know if there is a medical indication unless the machines have told us? MM so lets keep our interferring hands off until there is a medical indication!! Leanne. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] ? changing nature of the list....
There are all sorts of people contributing to this list, some are pro abortion, some are anti-abortion, some are pro immunization some are anti-immunization, some are pro homebirth and some are not etcand all along the spectrum in between. I think it is what makes this list interesting. It would be pretty boring if we were preaching to the converted the whole time. I for one love to hear the diverse opinions of many on this list and would hate it if people felt they couldn't freelyexpress theirs unpopular or not! Helen
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
hi i think that machines do have their palce in the birthing process if and only if the individual woman has a pre exisiting complaint such as PIH or APH. to moniter the baby is a good thing not to mention the fact that some of these machines ensure that there is a reduced perinatal mortality. Im all for machines that keep both the mother and the baby health in check and not for machines such as the one described which measures cerival dilatation what rot. what about good old fashioned midwifery skills or better still listening to what your woman is telling you. regards sharon - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:49 AM Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006) Well, how can we know if there is a medical indication unless the machines have told us? MM so lets keep our interferring hands off until there is a medical indication!! Leanne. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
I think a lot these days about our attachment to each and every baby and the life of that baby at any cost. I for one don't think that machines have a place in my personal birthing life for whatever reason and object to others feeling that they might. We all have thoughts about how we think birth should be supported and what levels of intervention are right or wrong but ultimately none of this should change the power of the decisions made by well-informed women and the supremacy of those decisions over and above those of any health care provider. I suppose the problem is that most women aren't well-informed, take little responsibility for their health, and the outcomes of their pregnancy and birthing indeed it seems that many women don't even want to be informed. This is the most soul-destroying fact in the whole picture. As the rate of induction at my local hospital soars and the myth that birth is an unbearable experience is perpetuated I keep chipping away doing my little bit Where have we got to in this world when a natural bodily function is undoable for most women??? Just some of my thoughts Thanks to all those women out their who believe in women's bodies and the value of both the dark and the light in our lives as I do, Penny From: sharon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006) hi i think that machines do have their palce in the birthing process if and only if the individual woman has a pre exisiting complaint such as PIH or APH. to moniter the baby is a good thing not to mention the fact that some of these machines ensure that there is a reduced perinatal mortality. Im all for machines that keep both the mother and the baby health in check and not for machines such as the one described which measures cerival dilatation what rot. what about good old fashioned midwifery skills or better still listening to what your woman is telling you. regards sharon - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:49 AM Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006) Well, how can we know if there is a medical indication unless the machines have told us? MM so lets keep our interferring hands off until there is a medical indication!! Leanne. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
Beautifully put Penny! Yes where are we when the most important physical and spiritual event is taken away from /handed over by women? I laugh when I hear that Feminism has achieved so much. To me the very essence of womanhood is controlled by at best a very organised patriarchy and at worst totally controlling mysogyny. There's a book in that, but how to make it palatable for women to read!! Ah perhaps that's the 64 million dollar question. I also pondered today if it's all about choice then why is the natural choice denigrated so much (yes due to the controlling interest I know!) But publicly we need to ask that question and KEEP informing anyone we can that until all choice is respected and funded then we cannot say women have choice or determine that women are really making a choice! JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies(May 24, 2006)
I'm nodding vigorously, Penny and Justine! - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies(May 24, 2006) Beautifully put Penny! Yes where are we when the most important physical and spiritual event is taken away from /handed over by women? I laugh when I hear that Feminism has achieved so much. To me the very essence of womanhood is controlled by at best a very organised patriarchy and at worst totally controlling mysogyny. There's a book in that, but how to make it palatable for women to read!! Ah perhaps that's the 64 million dollar question. I also pondered today if it's all about choice then why is the natural choice denigrated so much (yes due to the controlling interest I know!) But publicly we need to ask that question and KEEP informing anyone we can that until all choice is respected and funded then we cannot say women have choice or determine that women are really making a choice! JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Testing
First time online, just testing. Marg _ Search for local singles online @ Lavalife - Click here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D22141_t=751140432_r=emailtagline_may_search_m=EXT -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
Abby for President I love your work! J LOL! Thanks Janet. About 10 years ago my ambition was to become Australias first female prime minister. Things have changed since then, I still want to change things but know it is easier done in the background. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
