Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
So did I. Andrea Bilcliff - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] I did get it the first time... maybe some emails get through to some people but not everyone? At 12:29 PM +1000 6/7/06, Stephen Felicity wrote: Sending this to the list for the second time as it mysteriously disappeared. :o( -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth childrens book
whoops its www.chrissybutler.com(no.au) From: "Kristin Beckedahl" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] homebirth childrens bookDate: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:05:57 +0800 Just letting those involved in homebirth about a new childrens book about homebirth called "Welcome Home Jimi Jazz", written and illustrated by a HBAC woman in NSW called Chrissy Butler. The pictures are amazing and the story just beautiful, esp the one of the baby crowning !! www.chrissybutler.com.au K-- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation
I also have done cord blood collection after a physiological third stage. And they have also been done after C/S. Maureen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Belinda Maier Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2006 6:11 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation My experience with mothers doing this was not of early cord clamping but of physiological 3rd stage. We would have to wait for the lab person to come so the cord was clamped and cut when they got there and had stopped pulsating. The blood obviously does not flow (for the collection) as quick but unless a woman wanted a lotus birth, for retrieving cord blood cells it is the best of both worlds. Obviously little can be done if the placenta simply births. The aim is to get the blood from the placenta not the baby. Once the baby gets what it needs and the cord stops beating then to my mind it is like donating breast milk; beautiful, rich; life giving and invaluable to the recipient. The concept of the blood belonging to the baby it interests me. i agree absolutely in the case of cord clamping before the cord has stopped pulsating. But even if we bury the placenta we are returning it to the earth, if we use placenta/woman/baby blood and use it on a person as we all die then eventually it will still be returned to the earth. Belinda Stephen Felicity wrote: I wouldn't contribute my baby's cord blood because that blood belongs to my baby, and that's where it's going, every last drop until it stops by itself and the placenta comes away naturally. Cord blood donation requires early cord clamping which for reasons I probably don't have to explain to those on this list is not something I would subject my child to. To my knowledge, cord blood is the best locale of stem cells, but it's not the ONLY one; there are other methods of obtaining them. So I can't see any good reason to prematurely amputate my child from their life source at birth (carrying all the risks to their health and wellbeing that come with this practice) and give their cord blood to someone else for their possible health and wellbeing; it doesn't seem logical to me as a Mother. - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Donation I have been asked this would be very interested to hear others views. I am fairly sure she means CB donation, not storage of blood for later use for her children. I've been meaning to ask you for a while about cord blood donation and in particular why people don't seem to do it. I picked up a brochure from the hospital and read it. I think I want to do it since it will otherwise just end up in the bin but am just wondering whether others know more about it and are therefore opting not to do it. Can you tell me what the cons of doing it are or the possible controversial issues. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
I did actually respond and my friend has told me it hasn't worked how frustrating in essence; my response is that the focus is on 'little' bit of knowledge being dangerous, compared with 'alot' of knowledge that is well researched and evidence based being a fabulous thing. My point of Kelly supporting the woman in the way her service offers is that her service offers non-medical support and the women love this. By obtaining information from an internet list and offering this in opposition to the care the woman receives from the hospital can have a potentially damaging effect on her trust of the carers at the hospital that she has chosen. The woman should take her birthing plan and her queries regarding the blood pressure to the people at the hospital, where she can discuss what an induction means and why she may or may not need this. The subject of fear in labour- if this fear comes from ill informed advice, misunderstanding with health care professionals or simply from scary tales from friends, there is no place for this fear in labour. Instinctive fear is a different topic from this. I recently eased fears from a woman in less than a minute when I palped her OP babe, I told her that I'd never actually 'caught' a babe in OP because they had all turned in labour, she was instantly relieved and we discussed different positions that took away her back pain. I made absolutely no reference to woman being treated like infants (!?) or undeserved of information. My defense over the interference in hospitals stands only on this- that people interfere when they are concerned of the potential risk to the mother and baby, if we did nothing we are also putting them at risk. Can we not make this an 'us and them' sort of argument? I care for woman AND work in a hospital! I also responded in thanks to Kelly for clarifying her frankness with the list as opposed to the way she is with her clients. Maybe I'm vetoed from the list and that's why it didn't appear? From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:54:08 +1000 I did get it the first time... maybe some emails get through to some people but not everyone? At 12:29 PM +1000 6/7/06, Stephen Felicity wrote: Sending this to the list for the second time as it mysteriously disappeared. :o( - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Heidi, I'm shocked by this statement. I can only assume I misunderstood your stance; could you expand on this statement? Being well-informed is not about being scared or doubtful of the Hospital (and a Doula doesn't put fear or doubt into their clients); it's a basic human right, particularly for a birthing woman and her baby. Knowledge is never dangerous (it's NOT being informed that carries the danger); and if knowledge leads a woman to feel fearful of a course of action that is proposed for her, that is a GOOD thing - it's her intuition telling her that she isn't ok with it happening, and pushing her to seek other options. Co-operation with a Hospital and her careprovider is not the ultimate goal for a birthing woman. It should be the other way around. Women are not infants and they have a right to any and all information, and to their emotions - even if they include fear. Fear is natural in birth and it's good support and good practice that gets us through it effectively; not avoiding the feeling altogether. Careproviders might not interfere with women and birth for fun (although I've seen and heard of Obs that indicate differently - and even, rarely, Midwives), but the rates of intervention compared to the rates indicated as actually necessary show that they're not often intervening based on evidence, either. It's not the information and knowledge that scares women. It's the practices and the outcomes. To address the fear we don't need to withhold information so the women can birth in Hospital without fuss; we need to truly support women, foster open negotiation and respect, and keep pushing to change the practices that aren't evidence-based or in the best interests of women and their babies. -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
Me too. Sadie - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... So did I. Andrea Bilcliff - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] I did get it the first time... maybe some emails get through to some people but not everyone? At 12:29 PM +1000 6/7/06, Stephen Felicity wrote: Sending this to the list for the second time as it mysteriously disappeared. :o( -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar
I prefer the term obstructed labour. Then one needs to properly describe what the obstruction was, i.e. POP and not descending despite best effors at positioning, etc. Or obstructed by medical ignorance of the natural process! Cheers Judy --- brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When women tell me they were C/Sd for FTP I always explain this to them as your baby just couldn't come out because...??? I am looking for further information from them or imparting what I know of the situation which led to their surgery. I do NOT say: you didn't dilate ie it's your fault that your Cx 'failed' to open, or the baby to descend etc. Apportioning blame is not a productive exercise here. FTP is a 'blanket term' for heaps of things as Janet says. It would be much more helpful to the women in understanding what's happened to them if we isolated the problem specified it rather than put it all under 1 heading which by its very wording assumes the mother is somehow at fault ! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar There's a thread on JB called FTP? FTW? which has research on it and how FTP is, oddly enough ; ) not something normally recognised or diagnosed in midwifery. FTP is one of the main reasons in Australia for c-sec, the other two reasons being breech and previous surgery. Shocking. J - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar I'd love to use all three but I will stick with the one that women know well - most of the birth stories in our forum have that in it, unfortunately. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybellycom.au/birth-support From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, 6 July 2006 1:18 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar It's really failure to wait and failure to stop poking about... - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar Oh yes we are having a big discussion about the wording after that post, and I told everyone I am going to write an article: Failure to Progress: Why Doctors Need to Move On LOL I will too ;) Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybellycom.au/birth-support -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, 6 July 2006 11:16 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar What a bloody crock. Yes, that's a common protocol to wave at birthing women who'd be doing just fine with a bit of evidence based care. I've heard limits of 38 weeks (yes, really!) through to 41 weeks on the time a woman with previous surgery is told she's allowed to gestate before being forcibly sliced open. It depends on the hospital and whether or not she employs a private surgeon. Tell her to run for the hills if she wants to be safe. And don't get me started on the intrinsically offensive nature of that term... TOS - trial of service is what it really means! J - whose sister is currently labouring for her HBAC at 42+4 without ANY crap like that! - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar Just wondering what guidelines exist for trial of scar. a woman on my site said that she has been given until 41 weeks to give birth or she'll be having another caesarean. Is this right? I am sure I have heard otherwise and seen otherwise. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support On Yahoo!7
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
By obtaining information from an internet list and offering this in opposition to the care the woman receives from the hospital can have a potentially damaging effect on her trust of the carers at the hospital that she has chosen. I'm afraid I see trust as something to be earned and trusting professionals because they're professionals is unwise. No one suggests we trust other professionals uncritically so why are midwives and doctors different? A second opinion is always recommended in other medical situations. Offering a woman genuine evidence that saves her and her baby from unnecessary intervention may not enhance her relationship with those she has employed but it might just save her life! Why should she uncritically trust everything she's told just because it's in a hospital? The woman should take her birthing plan and her queries regarding the blood pressure to the people at the hospital, where she can discuss what an induction means and why she may or may not need this. No, this woman should seek outside sources to confirm for herself what she feels comfortable with, not ask the people who want to intervene. What will their response be? Oh sure, we just offered induction because our time and motion issues and surgeons' timetables mean we prefer to induce women to our needs not theirs. Or will it be, Yes, you're deathly ill and if we don't induce you your baby might die. I know the latter response is the one I hear most reported back from consumers. My defense over the interference in hospitals stands only on this- that people interfere when they are concerned of the potential risk to the mother and baby, if we did nothing we are also putting them at risk. No, people interfere when the nexus of commerce, misogyny and ignorance around what birth really is comes together. We all know that rates of intervention in hospitals are way out of control and overservicing is the name of the game. You can't possibly be saying that primary c-sec rates are appropriate in this country and that all interventions are performed with pure hearts and women's lives in the balance? Birth isn't inherently dangerous but if you look at the outcomes in this country clearly birth in institutions is a risky business. There are no excuses for our outrageous rates of intervention but every reason for our concomitantly poor outcomes. As WHO says, when all women are treated in high tech units as if they are high risk, outcomes are crap. Too true! J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
I have to totally agree with you Janet. Trust MUST be earned and I think that if all women did not inherantly trust the professionals caring for them, if they ALL questioned everything and made the professionals give good evidence based reasons for interventions, all had second opinions if at all practical, we would not have our maternity systems in such a mess. A truly confident professional should be happy to answer all the questions and produce the evidenc when asked for so that women feel that they have been listened to and respected and really understand the need for interventions or non-interventions which ever is the case. It is only today that I listened to the story of a women with two previous CS, one for breech and the second for you will never do it naturally so you may as well have another CS type of cr*p from Drs at a previous hospital. She is grieving and really wanting a VBA2C. I have directed her to various sources of info including this list so I hope she doesn't mind me giving a general outline if she has already joined. She will need to be very strong, where I work we are only for low risk births and can't book her. My two CS were late in the afternoon after induction, now that I am an experienced MW I KNOW that I was not 'failing to progress', I just was not going fast enought to be done by dinner time. How can you inherantly trust OB's when that sort of story is rife among women. Cheers Judy --- Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By obtaining information from an internet list and offering this in opposition to the care the woman receives from the hospital can have a potentially damaging effect on her trust of the carers at the hospital that she has chosen. I'm afraid I see trust as something to be earned and trusting professionals because they're professionals is unwise. No one suggests we trust other professionals uncritically so why are midwives and doctors different? A second opinion is always recommended in other medical situations. Offering a woman genuine evidence that saves her and her baby from unnecessary intervention may not enhance her relationship with those she has employed but it might just save her life! Why should she uncritically trust everything she's told just because it's in a hospital? The woman should take her birthing plan and her queries regarding the blood pressure to the people at the hospital, where she can discuss what an induction means and why she may or may not need this. No, this woman should seek outside sources to confirm for herself what she feels comfortable with, not ask the people who want to intervene. What will their response be? Oh sure, we just offered induction because our time and motion issues and surgeons' timetables mean we prefer to induce women to our needs not theirs. Or will it be, Yes, you're deathly ill and if we don't induce you your baby might die. I know the latter response is the one I hear most reported back from consumers. My defense over the interference in hospitals stands only on this- that people interfere when they are concerned of the potential risk to the mother and baby, if we did nothing we are also putting them at risk. No, people interfere when the nexus of commerce, misogyny and ignorance around what birth really is comes together. We all know that rates of intervention in hospitals are way out of control and overservicing is the name of the game. You can't possibly be saying that primary c-sec rates are appropriate in this country and that all interventions are performed with pure hearts and women's lives in the balance? Birth isn't inherently dangerous but if you look at the outcomes in this country clearly birth in institutions is a risky business. There are no excuses for our outrageous rates of intervention but every reason for our concomitantly poor outcomes. As WHO says, when all women are treated in high tech units as if they are high risk, outcomes are crap. Too true! J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? Check out gigs in your area on the comprehensive Yahoo! Music Gig Guide http://au.music.yahoo.com/gig-guide -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
Yes to all that, Judy! And it is utterly possible to be truly With Woman and work in a hospy. We have lots of hospy MWs in Joyous Birth who I know really value the support they get from each other to work supporting clients first and institutions a poor second. A hard job but till that becomes the norm nothing can change. Hooray for evidence, I say! : ) J - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... I have to totally agree with you Janet. Trust MUST be earned and I think that if all women did not inherantly trust the professionals caring for them, if they ALL questioned everything and made the professionals give good evidence based reasons for interventions, all had second opinions if at all practical, we would not have our maternity systems in such a mess. A truly confident professional should be happy to answer all the questions and produce the evidenc when asked for so that women feel that they have been listened to and respected and really understand the need for interventions or non-interventions which ever is the case. It is only today that I listened to the story of a women with two previous CS, one for breech and the second for you will never do it naturally so you may as well have another CS type of cr*p from Drs at a previous hospital. She is grieving and really wanting a VBA2C. I have directed her to various sources of info including this list so I hope she doesn't mind me giving a general outline if she has already joined. She will need to be very strong, where I work we are only for low risk births and can't book her. My two CS were late in the afternoon after induction, now that I am an experienced MW I KNOW that I was not 'failing to progress', I just was not going fast enought to be done by dinner time. How can you inherantly trust OB's when that sort of story is rife among women. Cheers Judy --- Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By obtaining information from an internet list and offering this in opposition to the care the woman receives from the hospital can have a potentially damaging effect on her trust of the carers at the hospital that she has chosen. I'm afraid I see trust as something to be earned and trusting professionals because they're professionals is unwise. No one suggests we trust other professionals uncritically so why are midwives and doctors different? A second opinion is always recommended in other medical situations. Offering a woman genuine evidence that saves her and her baby from unnecessary intervention may not enhance her relationship with those she has employed but it might just save her life! Why should she uncritically trust everything she's told just because it's in a hospital? The woman should take her birthing plan and her queries regarding the blood pressure to the people at the hospital, where she can discuss what an induction means and why she may or may not need this. No, this woman should seek outside sources to confirm for herself what she feels comfortable with, not ask the people who want to intervene. What will their response be? Oh sure, we just offered induction because our time and motion issues and surgeons' timetables mean we prefer to induce women to our needs not theirs. Or will it be, Yes, you're deathly ill and if we don't induce you your baby might die. I know the latter response is the one I hear most reported back from consumers. My defense over the interference in hospitals stands only on this- that people interfere when they are concerned of the potential risk to the mother and baby, if we did nothing we are also putting them at risk. No, people interfere when the nexus of commerce, misogyny and ignorance around what birth really is comes together. We all know that rates of intervention in hospitals are way out of control and overservicing is the name of the game. You can't possibly be saying that primary c-sec rates are appropriate in this country and that all interventions are performed with pure hearts and women's lives in the balance? Birth isn't inherently dangerous but if you look at the outcomes in this country clearly birth in institutions is a risky business. There are no excuses for our outrageous rates of intervention but every reason for our concomitantly poor outcomes. As WHO says, when all women are treated in high tech units as if they are high risk, outcomes are crap. Too true! J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? Check out gigs in your area on the comprehensive Yahoo! Music Gig Guide
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
Hi Andrea, Was wondering if you could contact me off list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] am wanting to catch up for a chat. Sally - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... So did I. Andrea Bilcliff - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] I did get it the first time... maybe some emails get through to some people but not everyone? At 12:29 PM +1000 6/7/06, Stephen Felicity wrote: Sending this to the list for the second time as it mysteriously disappeared. :o( -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 4/07/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] vbac
i was looking after a woman the other night who had requested a vbac. the original c section was for faliure to progress after induction late in the afternoon (the ob at the time was her cousin). the ob looking after this woman this time however was happy for her to let nature take its course this time and as long as their were no problems with the baby or her it did. iam pleased to report that she had the baby NVD. she had a very concise birth plan which she was willing to change if necessary on things such as epidural and monitoring. She also had in attendance with her an independent midwife who assisted her to get through her labour in all it was a very satisfying time for both her and the stafff involved.
[ozmidwifery] homebirth enquiry
Hi all, Have had an enquiry from a woman in Orange (NSW) wanting a homebirth - anyone know of any willing midwives? Jo Hunter -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] NZ stats
Im a mid student and a kiwi. At present in NZ 78% of women choose a midwife as their lead maternity carer. Its nice to know that it is possible, when the choice is there. Pauline Moore WA
Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar
One thing I have seen a lot of is Obs stating in the operative notes that uterus was 'very thin' or 'translucent' and using this as justification for the repeat c/s One lady recently was wanting vbac very badly - came in in early labour i.e. not really established, at T+10. Got ARM'd - 2cms dilated, mec liquor ( not unusual post dates) CTG'd - nothing sinister on the trace, but a few hours later was told she needed c/s for fetal distress! Still not even in established labour, and I could see no evidence of fetal distress on the trace. The ob wrote 'translucent lower segment' on the notes. Apart from the total b.s. of her needing a repeat c/s this was so obviously a decision made by the ob without her understanding or ability to question his decision ( I was not there - talked about it with a colleague and we looked through the notes). Result is a woman who feels very aggrieved and disempowered. If she had had more knowledge and support she may well have had the ability to say no to the ARM and continuous monitoring, question what was deemed to be fetal distress on the monitor, and even not come in that early in her labour or go home again to establish. Instead she has had a second uneccessary c/s and is heading for a second bout of PND. Anyone have any comments on these 'thin lower segment' claims? My belief is that it is probably a normal state for the lower segment but 'they' see it as a sign of imminent rupture (of course if they weren't about to slice into it they wouldn't be able to see how thin it was) On a slightly different tack - can anyone point me to the latest thinking with active vaginal herpes lesions? Automatic c/s, or is there an alternative option? TIA Sue - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar When women tell me they were C/Sd for FTP Ialways explain this to themas "your baby just couldn't come outbecause...??? I am looking for further information from them or imparting what I know of the situation which led to their surgery. I do NOT say: "you didn't dilate" ie it's your fault that your Cx 'failed' to open, or the baby to descend etc. Apportioningblame is not a productive exercise here. FTP is a 'blanket term' for heaps of things as Janet says. It would be much more helpful to the women in understanding what's happened to themif we isolated the problem specified it rather than put it all under 1 heading which by its very wording assumes the mother is somehow at fault ! With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar There's a thread on JB called "FTP? FTW?" which has research on it and how FTP is, oddly enough ; ) not something normally recognised or "diagnosed" in midwifery. FTP is one of the main reasons in Australia for c-sec, the other two reasons being breech and previous surgery. Shocking. J - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar Id love to use all three but I will stick with the one that women know well most of the birth stories in our forum have that in it, unfortunately Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybellycom.au/birth-support From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Thursday, 6 July 2006 1:18 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar It's really "failure to wait" and "failure to stop poking about"... - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar Oh yes we are having a big discussion about the wording after that post, and I told everyone I am going to write an article: Failure to Progress: Why Doctors Need to Move On LOL I will too ;) Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From
Re: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats
Hi Pauline, As I understand it, those that don't go to a midwife end up with a doctor (usually an obstetrician) and the NZ caesarean rate is over 20%. It looks like you have either either a midwife or a caesarean in NZ. Simple choice! Regards Andrea currently in the UK where 68% of women have midwifery care and almost all the rest have a caesarean section (the UK current stats are very similar to OZ, and yet they only have 3% private obstetric care compared to almost 40% in OZ. ?). At 11:31 PM 6/07/2006, you wrote: I'm a mid student and a kiwi. At present in NZ 78% of women choose a midwife as their lead maternity carer. It's nice to know that it is possible, when the choice is there. Pauline Moore WA -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats
Andrea How do you define midwifery care for the UK? As someone who had all her children in the UK within the NHS where I was cared for by a midwife (except in one instance where I needed intrauterine surgery and was therefore cared for by an OB), I could not compare the over-servicing of women here in OZ, compared to that provide in the UK. I wasn't quite sure what the stats you quoted were meant to imply. The UK is far from perfect but I do believe that the choices for women in the UK are better that currently available her (in WA anyway). Debbie Slater Perth, WA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Thursday, 6 July 2006 10:15 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats Hi Pauline, As I understand it, those that don't go to a midwife end up with a doctor (usually an obstetrician) and the NZ caesarean rate is over 20%. It looks like you have either either a midwife or a caesarean in NZ. Simple choice! Regards Andrea currently in the UK where 68% of women have midwifery care and almost all the rest have a caesarean section (the UK current stats are very similar to OZ, and yet they only have 3% private obstetric care compared to almost 40% in OZ. ?). At 11:31 PM 6/07/2006, you wrote: I'm a mid student and a kiwi. At present in NZ 78% of women choose a midwife as their lead maternity carer. It's nice to know that it is possible, when the choice is there. Pauline Moore WA -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats
BEWARE: REALITY CHECK:I don't want to disillusion alot of you but a reality check is way overdue about what's going on across the Tasman.The saying: 'Be careful what you wish for.' is very applicable here.What MW have gained in autonomy, they have lost in the respect of their professional colleagues, the community women generally. The whole maternity system has an 'uncomfortable feeling'.I've thought alot before writing this all down, not wanting to 'upset' people, of course it grieves me because it's my home I'd love to be there !! SO here goes: this is looking at the situation without the 'rose tinted spectacles'. But of course it's generalising in some aspects.As a Kiwi who spends time every year in NZ came through the changes seeing the system evolve there, I feel I really need to say that Aust would not be doing it's women a service to emulate the system EXACTLY as it is implemented there. It may appear idyllic but it isn't, and not a day goes by that there's not an article in some newspaper there decrying Midwives (they are NOT popular politically have created alot of emnity alienated health professionals with whom we would much rather have collaborative practice) . There is a national midwifery shortage, the same as here because of the way the system is set up there large areas of the country have women with reduced choices in pregnancy care, not enhanced.I specifically went to the Manawatu, Wairarapa Horewhenua districts looking to relocate there 6 months ago. I go every year with the same intention ie checking out the system the situation. This year I spoke to all Pg women I saw, esp around Carterton, Greytown for those of you that know the area (because my elderly parents live in Upper Hutt I wanted to be close). In Martinborough alone, (a small rural town), I saw 6 Pg women in the street over the space of an hour each one was birthing either in Levin or Hutt Hospital (ie 1 hour drive North, or South through the Rimutuka ranges, ienarrow windy as hell, icy sometimes closed in winter ! ). Therewas no MW in their community, they were totally horrified at the thought of birth at home they had reduced options because the GPs have been 'squeezed' out of providing maternity care. I spoke with a group of IP in Levin they are overwhelmed understaffed, travelling alot of mileage over narrow windy roads to clinic. The majority of their births are in hospital they (the IPs) are turning women away because they are overbooked. One woman in Wellington tried 13 MW before she found 1 as her LMC ! I was offered 10 jobs in 1 week ! There are few private maternity hospitals there. I also have a very close friend in the outer Auckland region who keeps me up to date with cuttings, emails etc. There is alot of general dissatisfaction there with the whole system too.There are alot of IPs who have 'burned out' returned to the hospital system over the last 4 years overwhelmed by work commitment to on call 24/7 because the women have no other options for local care !The system is not one to emulate here.Surely we want more choice for women, not less, and we certainly don't want to alienate our professional colleagues who we need to be working WITH, not AGAINST.I really believe that Aust MW need to look more closely at the system in NZ before holding it up as a model of care they aspire to. It needs alot of 'tweaking' to make it ideal. I love NZ, but in this arena it's not perfect I think MW need to look very closely at the big picture.Off the soapbox now !!With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au- Original Message - From: "Andrea Robertson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:15 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats Hi Pauline, As I understand it, those that don't go to a midwife end up with a doctor (usually an obstetrician) and the NZ caesarean rate is over 20%. It looks like you have either either a midwife or a caesarean in NZ. Simple choice! Regards Andrea currently in the UK where 68% of women have midwifery care and almost all the rest have a caesarean section (the UK current stats are very similar to OZ, and yet they only have 3% private obstetric care compared to almost 40% in OZ. ?). At 11:31 PM 6/07/2006, you wrote:I'm a mid student and a kiwi. At present in NZ 78% of women choose a midwife as their lead maternity carer. It's nice to know that it is possible, when the choice is there.Pauline MooreWA -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure...
Stephen Felicity wrote: Sending this to the list for the second time as it mysteriously disappeared. :o( - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood pressure... A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I got this one the first time, so maybe its a bit more hit n miss than we think ? cheers -- Jennifairy Gillett RM Midwife in Private Practice Women’s Health Teaching Associate ITShare volunteer – Santos Project Co-ordinator ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/ ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals groups, created from donated hardware and opensource software -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth enquiry
Noeline Lang Orange 026321462 - Original Message - From: jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:56 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] homebirth enquiry Hi all, Have had an enquiry from a woman in Orange (NSW) wanting a homebirth - anyone know of any willing midwives? Jo Hunter -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar
My sister had a lscs for pih / failed induction (don't ask) and then went on to have a failed attempt at a VBAC (same Dr) he noted a thin lower segment. I agree with the natural state theory and discussed this thought with my sister, as the dr advised her not to have any more children suggesting that she was at risk of uterine rupture. She has since moved to Brisbane, had another lscs, and the OB never mentioned anything unusual with her uterus. She is now trying to fall pregnant with her 4th. megan - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar One thing I have seen a lot of is Obs stating in the operative notes that uterus was 'very thin' or 'translucent' and using this as justification for the repeat c/s One lady recently was wanting vbac very badly - came in in early labour i.e. not really established, at T+10. Got ARM'd - 2cms dilated, mec liquor ( not unusual post dates) CTG'd - nothing sinister on the trace, but a few hours later was told she needed c/s for fetal distress! Still not even in established labour, and I could see no evidence of fetal distress on the trace. The ob wrote 'translucent lower segment' on the notes. Apart from the total b.s. of her needing a repeat c/s this was so obviously a decision made by the ob without her understanding or ability to question his decision ( I was not there - talked about it with a colleague and we looked through the notes). Result is a woman who feels very aggrieved and disempowered. If she had had more knowledge and support she may well have had the ability to say no to the ARM and continuous monitoring, question what was deemed to be fetal distress on the monitor, and even not come in that early in her labour or go home again to establish. Instead she has had a second uneccessary c/s and is heading for a second bout of PND. Anyone have any comments on these 'thin lower segment' claims? My belief is that it is probably a normal state for the lower segment but 'they' see it as a sign of imminent rupture (of course if they weren't about to slice into it they wouldn't be able to see how thin it was) On a slightly different tack - can anyone point me to the latest thinking with active vaginal herpes lesions? Automatic c/s, or is there an alternative option? TIA Sue - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar When women tell me they were C/Sd for FTP Ialways explain this to themas "your baby just couldn't come outbecause...??? I am looking for further information from them or imparting what I know of the situation which led to their surgery. I do NOT say: "you didn't dilate" ie it's your fault that your Cx 'failed' to open, or the baby to descend etc. Apportioningblame is not a productive exercise here. FTP is a 'blanket term' for heaps of things as Janet says. It would be much more helpful to the women in understanding what's happened to themif we isolated the problem specified it rather than put it all under 1 heading which by its very wording assumes the mother is somehow at fault ! With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar There's a thread on JB called "FTP? FTW?" which has research on it and how FTP is, oddly enough ; ) not something normally recognised or "diagnosed" in midwifery. FTP is one of the main reasons in Australia for c-sec, the other two reasons being breech and previous surgery. Shocking. J - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar Id love to use all three but I will stick with the one that women know well most of the birth stories in our forum have that in it, unfortunately Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybellycom.au/birth-support From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Thursday,
RE: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats
Hi Pauline...do you know what percentage home birth From: Pauline Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:31:56 +0800 I'm a mid student and a kiwi. At present in NZ 78% of women choose a midwife as their lead maternity carer. It's nice to know that it is possible, when the choice is there. Pauline Moore WA -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar
It just stands to reason, doesn't it, that a muscle that stretches so far in pregnancy wouldn't be as thick as it is when empty! And yes, like everyone says, if those women weren't being carved up no one could come out with that crap. It's a bit like the "We have to induce for low liquor" rubbish when everyone who's read anything of worth knows that low liquor means bubs is on the way shortly... Pathologising the utterly normal, again! : ) J - Original Message - From: meg To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar My sister had a lscs for pih / failed induction (don't ask) and then went on to have a failed attempt at a VBAC (same Dr) he noted a thin lower segment. I agree with the natural state theory and discussed this thought with my sister, as the dr advised her not to have any more children suggesting that she was at risk of uterine rupture. She has since moved to Brisbane, had another lscs, and the OB never mentioned anything unusual with her uterus. She is now trying to fall pregnant with her 4th. megan - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar One thing I have seen a lot of is Obs stating in the operative notes that uterus was 'very thin' or 'translucent' and using this as justification for the repeat c/s One lady recently was wanting vbac very badly - came in in early labour i.e. not really established, at T+10. Got ARM'd - 2cms dilated, mec liquor ( not unusual post dates) CTG'd - nothing sinister on the trace, but a few hours later was told she needed c/s for fetal distress! Still not even in established labour, and I could see no evidence of fetal distress on the trace. The ob wrote 'translucent lower segment' on the notes. Apart from the total b.s. of her needing a repeat c/s this was so obviously a decision made by the ob without her understanding or ability to question his decision ( I was not there - talked about it with a colleague and we looked through the notes). Result is a woman who feels very aggrieved and disempowered. If she had had more knowledge and support she may well have had the ability to say no to the ARM and continuous monitoring, question what was deemed to be fetal distress on the monitor, and even not come in that early in her labour or go home again to establish. Instead she has had a second uneccessary c/s and is heading for a second bout of PND. Anyone have any comments on these 'thin lower segment' claims? My belief is that it is probably a normal state for the lower segment but 'they' see it as a sign of imminent rupture (of course if they weren't about to slice into it they wouldn't be able to see how thin it was) On a slightly different tack - can anyone point me to the latest thinking with active vaginal herpes lesions? Automatic c/s, or is there an alternative option? TIA Sue - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar When women tell me they were C/Sd for FTP Ialways explain this to themas "your baby just couldn't come outbecause...??? I am looking for further information from them or imparting what I know of the situation which led to their surgery. I do NOT say: "you didn't dilate" ie it's your fault that your Cx 'failed' to open, or the baby to descend etc. Apportioningblame is not a productive exercise here. FTP is a 'blanket term' for heaps of things as Janet says. It would be much more helpful to the women in understanding what's happened to themif we isolated the problem specified it rather than put it all under 1 heading which by its very wording assumes the mother is somehow at fault ! With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Trial of Scar There's a thread on JB called "FTP? FTW?" which has research on it and how FTP is, oddly enough ; ) not something normally recognised or "diagnosed" in midwifery. FTP is one of the main reasons in Australia for c-sec, the other two reasons being breech and previous surgery. Shocking. J - Original
RE: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats
Hi. The homebirth rate in New Zealand is approximately 7% (although these statistics also include planned hospital births where the woman births before getting to hospital - either at home or in transit). Julia Kate Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Hi Pauline...do you know what percentage home birth From: Pauline Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] NZ stats Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:31:56 +0800 I'm a mid student and a kiwi. At present in NZ 78% of women choose a midwife as their lead maternity carer. It's nice to know that it is possible, when the choice is there. Pauline Moore WA -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: online journals
Hi Megan I'm pleased to say that the Australian College of Midwives now has an online Journal: Women and Birth. The first issue of this year can be accessed by all by visiting the http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/18715192 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/18715192 In the future it will be possible for members and subscribers to access all the past and present content of the journal at http://www.sciencedirect.com/wombi http://www.sciencedirect.com/wombi Members of the ACM are also able to access a greatly discounted price for the international Journal called Midwifery which is also available on line to subscribers. We're in the process of setting up this option for our members, hope to have it available by August. Kind regards, Barb. Dr Barbara Vernon Executive Officer Australian College of Midwives 1/97 Northbourne Ave, TURNER ACT Ph +61 2 6230 7333 From: Rebecca Gaiewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 30 June 2006 2:21:40 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: online journals Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Hi Megan, I am at Uni, so I have access through them but the Australian Health Review is free and you have access via there web site: http://www.aushealthreview.com.au/publications/articles/ also http://informit.com.au/index.asp has Australasian online journals as a trial but later to purchase, I am not sure of the prices. Journals such as Birth @ http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/toc/bir/33/2 will sometime have free articles, you can have the 'table of contents' e-mailed. Another good one is the Cochrane Review @ http://www.mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/cochrane_clsysrev_crglist_fs. html Hope these help. Cheers Rebecca Gaiewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] file:///\\localhost\Library\Application%20Support\Apple\iChat%20Icons\Fung% 20Shui\Geta%20(Wooden%20Sandal)%20%20.gif On 30/06/2006, at 7:48 AM, meg wrote: Thanks Andrea, I was begining to think it was me! megan - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrea Quanchi To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: online journals This is always an issue unless you 1. are studying and thus have access through the uni. 2. are employed at a hospital Most hospitals have access through the library and a government website but I can never remember what it is. If you work at a hospital check with the IT department or library. 3. ANF members can access AJAN via ANF website I am yet to find a way to access some journals even with all of the above ( Birth, Practicing Midwife just two off the top of my head). Andrea Quanchi On 29/06/2006, at 4:50 PM, meg wrote: - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] meg To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: online journals Can anyone tell me where they access online journals that are able to be downloaded or emailed. I have access to midirs but you can only get articles mailed out and they cost a fair bit. Megan attachment: winmail.dat
[ozmidwifery] 'Lactation failure caused by lack of glandular development in the breast'
Does anyone have any experiences to share with this? A woman has posted on my site about her experience and I was wondering what everyone thought on the topic. http://bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=352746 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] 'Lactation failure caused by lack of glandular development in the breast'
She posted the exact same post on my forums today too : ) - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 'Lactation failure caused by lack of glandular development in the breast' Does anyone have any experiences to share with this? A woman has posted on my site about her experience and I was wondering what everyone thought on the topic. http://bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=352746 Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybellycom.au/birth-support
