[ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?
Hi, after being on this list for a long, long, time i just have to ask: where has this list gone to? it used to be fully midwifery - issues, questions, politics - to inform , incite, advocate - for better maternity care systems across australia - for all women. sure, i've been studying and not contributing like i used to, but there has hardly been a day where i haven't checked my ozmid email. and now - can i say - it's boring- it's tame - very little new information - my recent questions about mental health and women giving birth - so few responses - why- 10% of the population have mental health issues - how do we as midwives deal with them - who knows cos only a few have answered? and how do we as midwives create change? by 'eating' each other, by gossiping about each other or back-biting - or by sharing/respecting/acknowledging our differences? hey, to each and everyone of you 'lurking' out there, let's have some dialogue. what do you think about me attending women who are medicated for mental health issues? what do you think about homebirths for breech babies? for twins? what do you think about independent homebirth midwives working alone? where's the thinking gone? where's the dialogue? i so miss it sue cookson -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwife in Canberra / area
have you tried Marie Heath from Goulburn or Jane Collings from Bowral. Sonja -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?
My New years resolution is to beat my internet addiction and find more time in my life, Im still reading but not adding much!! Cheers, Di - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone? Hi, after being on this list for a long, long, time i just have to ask: where has this list gone to? it used to be fully midwifery - issues, questions, politics - to inform , incite, advocate - for better maternity care systems across australia - for all women. sure, i've been studying and not contributing like i used to, but there has hardly been a day where i haven't checked my ozmid email. and now - can i say - it's boring- it's tame - very little new information - my recent questions about mental health and women giving birth - so few responses - why- 10% of the population have mental health issues - how do we as midwives deal with them - who knows cos only a few have answered? and how do we as midwives create change? by 'eating' each other, by gossiping about each other or back-biting - or by sharing/respecting/acknowledging our differences? hey, to each and everyone of you 'lurking' out there, let's have some dialogue. what do you think about me attending women who are medicated for mental health issues? what do you think about homebirths for breech babies? for twins? what do you think about independent homebirth midwives working alone? where's the thinking gone? where's the dialogue? i so miss it sue cookson -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1959 (20070105) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?
Hi Sue, Perhaps...just a thought ..but maybe it's just that it's summer sitting in front of a computer is not only time consuming but very unhealthy. We are all so much more aware of what constitutes a quality healthy lifestyle nowadays and as Di says, computers don't feature largely in the equation do they ? We need to be out doing stuff with our lives families not being anti-social indoors. Just maybe ?? Do you think ?? Also, what difference does it make how we feel about the contentious issues you've mentioned, really ? We all do what we are comfortable with regardless of what others think whilst open discussion has a definite up-side it also has a definite negative aspect. As experienced midiwves we have our own beliefs opinions about our skills, spheres of safe practice beliefs, we don't need to be continually reminded that we are practising on the edge are unsafe or litigously vulnerable. We also don't need to be critical of our peers their practice. The up-side of discussion is the learning support of the contributers I've learned heaps from this list, it's been great !! Don't know how much I've contributed myself but I have tried ! Thats just MHO ! Off out to play in the sun now ! Brenda diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My New years resolution is to beat my internet addiction and find more time in my life, Im still reading but not adding much!! Cheers, Di - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone? Hi, after being on this list for a long, long, time i just have to ask: where has this list gone to? it used to be fully midwifery - issues, questions, politics - to inform , incite, advocate - for better maternity care systems across australia - for all women. sure, i've been studying and not contributing like i used to, but there has hardly been a day where i haven't checked my ozmid email. and now - can i say - it's boring- it's tame - very little new information - my recent questions about mental health and women giving birth - so few responses - why- 10% of the population have mental health issues - how do we as midwives deal with them - who knows cos only a few have answered? and how do we as midwives create change? by 'eating' each other, by gossiping about each other or back-biting - or by sharing/respecting/acknowledging our differences? hey, to each and everyone of you 'lurking' out there, let's have some dialogue. what do you think about me attending women who are medicated for mental health issues? what do you think about homebirths for breech babies? for twins? what do you think about independent homebirth midwives working alone? where's the thinking gone? where's the dialogue? i so miss it sue cookson -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1959 (20070105) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?
Well Kelly, midwifery led care is the best way to get a great birth. However if you are working inside a big system you are a product of what is on offer. Even though the midwives maybe doing a great job ( and most are) you cannot get away from the constraints placed on you by policy and procedure. Sue I think your right it is important to discuss on going issues regarding birth so we can all grow, learn and change. Maybe We are all just more comfortable discussing safe issues where most of us agree than approaching more contentious issue that sparks debate. That's hardly healthy for a community is it. Lisa Barrett -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] frustrating
Hi all, My email obviously went out about the direction of the list as I have recieved a couple of personal replies but my own email and other replies to the list have not appeared for me!! So frustrating. Can someone please email me copies of the discussion so I can participate?? Thanks, Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations?
I get so fustrated when I know people who choose subordinate (in my opinion) levels of care. What I mean is, healthy women who choose care under an obstetrician. They get roped into the high tech repeated u/s, monitoring, for the just in case ignorant way of thinking. They end up having highly intervened vaginal births (but they see as 'natural birth' because it is vaginal) or worse a necessary unnecessary cs. Does this make sense? I have been up most of the night stewing over this, because a 4 of my rellies have recently choosen this type of care to end up with the same results... and they think I'm weird because I choose to birth at home! OK so I'm a midwife (new at the game, but still), so maybe the extra knowledge helped me to make 'good' or appropriate choices for me, but what stops women from investigating choices for themselves? Why do they so blindly give themselves to medical men in every sense of the word? Do women really believe that they don't have the power to birth themselves and that they really need help? Do they really think nature got it that wrong? AHH!! How do you get 'over it'? How do you talk with these women about birth in social conversatin without lecturing them? Hope this makes sense.. i'm tired! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?
O.k. I shall re-phrase :) If introducing midwifery-led care on a broad scale has not helped due to policy or other restrictions, then what CAN work, right now, no matter where women choose to give birth? Because there is never going to be one place every woman chooses to give birth, not always with a midwife, at home or even a birth centre. Are we looking for an answer for a midwifery model or an answer for birth outcomes for women, no matter what they choose or need? Personally I would love to hear from someone from NZ (this is just one sole topic so not the focus) who has a very compelling answer, which just might be the tipping point. I don't think it would be wise to assume we will do it better, or will get it right first go. I am sure it will involve negotiations somewhere; everything does before it gets to the finished product. I don't disagree with you at all that midwifery-led care is a great option from which women can benefit. I will choose a midwife next time and not the hospital system. But do you think the majority of the consumers are going to automatically fight with us and then 'make the switch', believing us when we say/preech/convince that midwifery led care is a better option for them? We have enough trouble finding those amongst ourselves who have the time or inclination to lobby or write in to complain about things to government, advertisers etc. So why would consumers bother going out of their way to support such a move? The very vast majority of consumers don't think like we do nor do they have the passion for anything but their own safety right now. Many want the best care their dollar can buy, given they have private health care, they choose the best hospitals and the best Obs. I'm talking about the 99% of people giving birth in hospitals as opposed to the 0.4% (?) having a planned homebirth. It's hard to believe but yes, many feel more comfortable with an Obstetrician, just like you would only feel comfortable with a midwife. Getting angry about it or feeling frustrated will do nothing but make us look like frustrated, crazed women! Some even say it's too scary, hearing what we have to say so they stick to their comfort zone. They won't care what we think and what we are saying unless we make the decision to tell it to them in a way in which they will respond - and its not by impressing them with stats or telling them what's good for them. Who out there likes to be told or convinced that they should do xxx because they will get xxx? Try it with your husband, say that he should switch to light beer and say its better for his heart or whatever and see if that works! :) Ask someone to change religions, political parties - they wont without a compelling reason that is meaningful to THEM not YOU :) I think much can be learnt from NZ before we do the same thing - we're fighting for what they have right? Say we get the green light to go ahead, then the same thing happens, we can be BETTER prepared and have the heads up on this sort of thing and plan or prevent it happening. We must do our homework and we must never stop learning and growing, because the most successful people don't have the biggest houses or cars - they have the biggest libraries and knowledge and they keep learning. We have two ears and one mouth and they should always be used in that order when dealing with the 99% of consumers we are trying to convince, as opposed to trying to convert. We need to try new things rather than believing in one thing, investing everything into it and not having the time or intention to listen to other points of view. Being stuck on the one solution is a big problem. What happens when that doesn't go to plan? Where are your trump cards? How do you regain that credibility when you've promised the world and not delivered? Might be a simple answer to you, but they will not think so - they take what they see. Many women will tell of bad experiences in hospitals with midwives so the thought of hiring one is not an option. Not the profession's fault and it may not be a great example of midwifery care, but the woman will still have that impression until something compelling happens. They make up their own minds. All those interested in making a change can. The answer and the solution lies in the consumers not ourselves, until this is realised progress will be slow if not backwards at times. All we are is burnt out, tired, frustrated, angry, fighting - doesn't have to be this way if we make a simple shift which will benefit midwifery-led care in the big scheme of things - and we'll appear more pleasant to deal with :) This is not an anti-midwifery thing or saying the care is sub-standard, in fact it will grow credibility in the profession which is what needs to be done - some good midwifery PR. But like in NZ, we seem to be looking for an answer within midwifery. It's all the wrong way around. If we build upon it and invest in it, they will come! This is no quick fix, but it requires others
RE: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations?
Hi Rachael, I sometimes share your frustrations in wondering why on earth women choose OB's to care for them - particularly when they whinge about them so much! However what women are after is continuity of care because they want some feeling of certainty over who is going to be with them when they birth in short it gives them a feeling of security and the other main reason is the perceived quality of the care because an OB is regarded in Australia as the highest qualified of anyone to deal with pregnancy and birth. The other astonishing fact is that OB's don't even need to lift a finger to market themselves... it's all done for them by our medically supportive system. Yesterday I had a reunion with a group who had received mixed care; some by midwives some by private OB's and when they shared their stories and discovered such big differences in the way they had been cared for; the proof is in the pudding after all isn't it? A couple of them were saying I'm definitely going to a birth centre or have midwifery care next time! You might ask well why didn't they learn about this in the preparation classes, well they did, but they often say they are not able to change late in the pregnancy because they have already paid completely up front well in advance to the OB and they worry about getting their money back, they assume they can't, or they cannot get into a midwifery program or a birth centre at a very late stage of pregnancy. The reunion confirms a lot for them as they share their stories, one of the lovely couples yesterday had had a wonderful homebirth with the terrific midwives at St George hospital and the rest of the group were thrilled for them and listened to all the details It was a wonderful 6 hour labour, relaxing in a pool in the lounge room and the midwife just stayed quietly next to me and it was very peaceful... Warm hug Julie Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator ACE Grad-Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 F. (02) 9544 9257 Mobile 0401 2655 30 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.julieclarke.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Rachael Austin Sent: Monday, 8 January 2007 10:19 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations? I get so fustrated when I know people who choose subordinate (in my opinion) levels of care. What I mean is, healthy women who choose care under an obstetrician. They get roped into the high tech repeated u/s, monitoring, for the just in case ignorant way of thinking. They end up having highly intervened vaginal births (but they see as 'natural birth' because it is vaginal) or worse a necessary unnecessary cs. Does this make sense? I have been up most of the night stewing over this, because a 4 of my rellies have recently choosen this type of care to end up with the same results... and they think I'm weird because I choose to birth at home! OK so I'm a midwife (new at the game, but still), so maybe the extra knowledge helped me to make 'good' or appropriate choices for me, but what stops women from investigating choices for themselves? Why do they so blindly give themselves to medical men in every sense of the word? Do women really believe that they don't have the power to birth themselves and that they really need help? Do they really think nature got it that wrong? AHH!! How do you get 'over it'? How do you talk with these women about birth in social conversatin without lecturing them? Hope this makes sense.. i'm tired! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwife in Canberra / area
Hi there, Would someone please email me phone numbers for Marie and Jane, I just had someone ask about independent midwives available for the Nowra area. Any more suggestions or recommendations also very welcome. Warm regards, Lea Mason, AAHCC Certified Bradley® Natural Childbirth Educator Labour Support Professional http://www.birthsteps.com.au - Original Message - From: Sonja Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwife in Canberra / area have you tried Marie Heath from Goulburn or Jane Collings from Bowral. Sonja -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] frustrating
Sue Cookson wrote: Hi all, My email obviously went out about the direction of the list as I have recieved a couple of personal replies but my own email and other replies to the list have not appeared for me!! So frustrating. Can someone please email me copies of the discussion so I can participate?? Thanks, Sue Heya Sue, firstly congrats on getting the piece of paper :)) On the tame list bizzo, I think too that one of the reasons is exactly what you have outlined here - not all the mails get thru to the list, at best its sporadic. I know that my motivation to post has reduced since I realised that only about a half to 2 thirds of my posts actually get read by someone other than me, when they do the occasional lack of any kind of meaningful reply can just add to the feeling of wasted time. cheers -- Jennifairy Gillett RM Midwife in Private Practice Women’s Health Teaching Associate ITShare volunteer – Santos Project Co-ordinator ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/ ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals groups, created from donated hardware and opensource software -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?
Dear Kelly and all Some additional information may assist you before you totally throw the NZ model out the window. For those of us who have lobbied at high levels, and been involved with writing (and selling!) NMAP etc we needed to totally understand the good and the bad of NZ. Kelly your statements re intervention in NZ on a broad brush are not totally true. One of the major down falls of the stats (ie c/s) is the midwifery interaction with obstetrics (ie large metro units that have the greatest birth numbers). To prove this look at the NZ rural units stats where midwives are providing a total care package without an obstetric unit and epidural service at the door. These stats are stunning. The funding arrangement is NZ is wonderful. It gives parity to each maternity health professional undertaking the same work. It has been legislated (s88). It also places the woman at the centre to choose her carer and direct payment accordingly. The consumer focus re dispute resolution is stunning. (Are you aware of this Kelly) Compare all of this with Australia. Women are mostly treated as a piece of meat that will make them money. Last week I heard a GP/Ob respond to 6 complaints with Well I'm trying to run a business. Australian women have no real choice. Choice of a private Hosp and private Ob is NOT choice. 1% access to midwifery is NOT CHOICE. So one of the major solutions for them (NZ) and us is a total midwifery scope of practice that does not place a woman within an obstetric dominated setting unless there is clinical need. This means home birth and stand alone midwifery units, this means women labouring at home for as long as possible (with their midwife). You only need to look at Australian co-located birth centres to get a similar picture. Yes it is the best we have but the 50% transfer rate is not representative of women's incapacity or midwifery care (on the whole). It is as a result of obstetric domination and protocols that have no basis of evidence. This is how we set midwifery and women up to fail. Why can't a woman with PROM labour in a BC? What difference is the transfer to a theatre from delivery suite to BC? This is a total furphy. So are many other's that exist. The answer in Australia is firstly a funding stream. Medicare for midwives (without restriction). Then women actually have a funded choice. From there many hurdles (no doubt). I agree women are the key, but it is nearly impossible to get women to fight for or even explore something they have no experience of. So a funded choice would get the cultural change happening. To do this we need midwives that are with women so I believe it is a partnership of change. Women will lead but midwives will be there right beside them. In solidarity Justine -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Pregnancy testing
I have a question for you wise women - will give you some background first. Young woman with a concealed or unacknowledged pregnancy at 26 weeks presented with acute abdominal pain to a remote area health clinic. No midwife was present and doctor had not practiced obstetrics for years. The woman did not appear pregnant at all. They did a pregnancy test and it was negative. They thought that renal colic may have been the cause. No one could palpate contractions but eventually the doctor did a VE and discovered something there. A very experienced nurse then delivered (and I use the word advisedly), the baby which was in a breech position. Traumatic for everyone especially the woman, who was then transferred by plane to the nearest hospital. I will be attending a debriefing session on Friday and would like to be able to at least explain the negative pregnancy test. Was this due to the demise of the baby (perhaps up to a week previously) or have the hormones altered so much that the test will not react - a. because of FDIU or b. advanced pregnancy or c. was there a technical problem with the test itself Your input would be much appreciated. Keep up the discussions on why women don't choose or don't know to choose more wisely when contemplating pregnancy because we do have a responsibility as midwives for disseminating this knowledge. Many thanks Anne (in the NT)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pregnancy testing
Anne the pregnancy test reading levels of bHCG which are elevated only in the first trimester and peak at 60-90 days post conception. They then decrease after 10-11 weeks and plateau at 100-130 days at a lower level that is maintained until birth and is not detectable by 2 weeks post birth. What the sensitivity of the test is I am not exactly sure but the answer is probably both these things. The level was not high at this stage so by the time the baby had been dead for a week the level was low enough not to be detected by the test. Hope this helps Andrea Q On 08/01/2007, at 2:16 PM, Anne Smith wrote: I have a question for you wise women – will give you some background first. Young woman with a concealed or unacknowledged pregnancy at 26 weeks presented with acute abdominal pain to a remote area health clinic. No midwife was present and doctor had not practiced obstetrics for “years”. The woman did not appear pregnant at all. They did a pregnancy test and it was negative. They thought that renal colic may have been the cause. No one could palpate contractions but eventually the doctor did a VE and discovered “something there”. A very experienced nurse then “delivered” (and I use the word advisedly), the baby which was in a breech position. Traumatic for everyone especially the woman, who was then transferred by plane to the nearest hospital. I will be attending a debriefing session on Friday and would like to be able to at least explain the negative pregnancy test. Was this due to the demise of the baby (perhaps up to a week previously) or have the hormones altered so much that the test will not react - a. because of FDIU or b. advanced pregnancy or c. was there a technical problem with the test itself Your input would be much appreciated. Keep up the discussions on why women don’t choose or don’t know to choose more wisely when contemplating pregnancy because we do have a responsibility as midwives for disseminating this knowledge. Many thanks Anne (in the NT)
Re: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations?
So many women DON'T believe they can birth well. They are so afraid of the pain and afraid of something going wrong. Then is becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and they are then so thankful they had the obstetrician. I, also, am so frustrated at the choices sometimes but it will take a huge shift in birthing culture to change that. It is like eating the proverbial elephant, one bite at a time, converting one family at a time. We need some more high profile homebirthers like Elle McPherson who would be prepared to tell about it in the popular press. This may help some but not all. Cheers Judy --- Dan Rachael Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get so fustrated when I know people who choose subordinate (in my opinion) levels of care. What I mean is, healthy women who choose care under an obstetrician. They get roped into the high tech repeated u/s, monitoring, for the just in case ignorant way of thinking. They end up having highly intervened vaginal births (but they see as 'natural birth' because it is vaginal) or worse a necessary unnecessary cs. Does this make sense? I have been up most of the night stewing over this, because a 4 of my rellies have recently choosen this type of care to end up with the same results... and they think I'm weird because I choose to birth at home! OK so I'm a midwife (new at the game, but still), so maybe the extra knowledge helped me to make 'good' or appropriate choices for me, but what stops women from investigating choices for themselves? Why do they so blindly give themselves to medical men in every sense of the word? Do women really believe that they don't have the power to birth themselves and that they really need help? Do they really think nature got it that wrong? AHH!! How do you get 'over it'? How do you talk with these women about birth in social conversatin without lecturing them? Hope this makes sense.. i'm tired! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pregnancy testing
Hi Anne Nothing further to add to Andreas comments except I am so glad to hear there is a debriefing opportunity for this case. Congrats on your great work up North. Wendy - Original Message - From: Anne Smith To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Cc: Anne Smith Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Pregnancy testing I have a question for you wise women - will give you some background first. Young woman with a concealed or unacknowledged pregnancy at 26 weeks presented with acute abdominal pain to a remote area health clinic. No midwife was present and doctor had not practiced obstetrics for years. The woman did not appear pregnant at all. They did a pregnancy test and it was negative. They thought that renal colic may have been the cause. No one could palpate contractions but eventually the doctor did a VE and discovered something there. A very experienced nurse then delivered (and I use the word advisedly), the baby which was in a breech position. Traumatic for everyone especially the woman, who was then transferred by plane to the nearest hospital. I will be attending a debriefing session on Friday and would like to be able to at least explain the negative pregnancy test. Was this due to the demise of the baby (perhaps up to a week previously) or have the hormones altered so much that the test will not react - a. because of FDIU or b. advanced pregnancy or c. was there a technical problem with the test itself Your input would be much appreciated. Keep up the discussions on why women don't choose or don't know to choose more wisely when contemplating pregnancy because we do have a responsibility as midwives for disseminating this knowledge. Many thanks Anne (in the NT) -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 1/7/2007
[ozmidwifery] Finding a birth pool
Dear all, I know we have covered this, however I have been back over the past year and can't find any references. A women approached me about where to find a suitable birthing pool. She has been told it should be a mtr deep and she has only found the kids ones of 750cm. It will also need to fit in her kitchen. We are in rural NSW. Does anyone have any info I can give to her. Katy.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pregnancy testing
Some women just never spill bHCG, and just in general you can get a false negative but pretty much never a false positive. On 08/01/2007, at 2:59 PM, Andrea Quanchi wrote: Anne the pregnancy test reading levels of bHCG which are elevated only in the first trimester and peak at 60-90 days post conception. They then decrease after 10-11 weeks and plateau at 100-130 days at a lower level that is maintained until birth and is not detectable by 2 weeks post birth. What the sensitivity of the test is I am not exactly sure but the answer is probably both these things. The level was not high at this stage so by the time the baby had been dead for a week the level was low enough not to be detected by the test. Hope this helps Andrea Q On 08/01/2007, at 2:16 PM, Anne Smith wrote: I have a question for you wise women – will give you some background first. Young woman with a concealed or unacknowledged pregnancy at 26 weeks presented with acute abdominal pain to a remote area health clinic. No midwife was present and doctor had not practiced obstetrics for “years”. The woman did not appear pregnant at all. They did a pregnancy test and it was negative. They thought that renal colic may have been the cause. No one could palpate contractions but eventually the doctor did a VE and discovered “something there”. A very experienced nurse then “delivered” (and I use the word advisedly), the baby which was in a breech position. Traumatic for everyone especially the woman, who was then transferred by plane to the nearest hospital. I will be attending a debriefing session on Friday and would like to be able to at least explain the negative pregnancy test. Was this due to the demise of the baby (perhaps up to a week previously) or have the hormones altered so much that the test will not react - a. because of FDIU or b. advanced pregnancy or c. was there a technical problem with the test itself Your input would be much appreciated. Keep up the discussions on why women don’t choose or don’t know to choose more wisely when contemplating pregnancy because we do have a responsibility as midwives for disseminating this knowledge. Many thanks Anne (in the NT)
[ozmidwifery] Independent Birthing Center in USA Saving $800,000 Annually In Health Costs
The only independent birthing center in the District of Columbia is reducing costs for the city's health care system by more than $800,000 annually, primarily because of the reduced numbers of caesarean sections and preterm deliveries, according to Ruth Watson Lubic, the center's founder and chair, the http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/20/AR200612200 0705.html Washington Post reports. The not-for-profit Family Health and Birth Center, housed in a former supermarket and located in a low-income area of the District, provides gynecological and obstetrical services, as well as parenting advice to women and general health services to children, the Post reports. An increasing number of women are giving birth in the center's birthing rooms, while other women give birth at Washington Hospital http://www.whcenter.org/ Center accompanied by one of the center's seven on-staff midwifes, the Post reports. Preliminary data for 2006 indicate that the center might have delivered a record number of infants -- more the 153 last year, as well as the highest percentage ever delivered outside the hospital -- the Post reports. Of infants delivered through the center through mid-October, less than 5% were delivered before 37 weeks' gestation, 2% were considered low birthweight and 7% were delivered through c-sections. Citywide rates for those measures are in the double digits, according to the Post. According to an analysis conducted by Lubic based on an estimate in a recent Institute of Medicine http://www.iom.edu/ report, the center saves $567,000 annually by reducing the number of preterm deliveries. Using the same formula, Lubic calculated that the center saves almost $285,000 in c-section costs. Lubic this fall presented her analysis to the Council of the http://www.dccouncil.washington.dc.us/ District of Columbia's health committee. She has said that because the center continues to face increasing malpractice premiums and unchanging insurance reimbursements, it should be rewarded for reducing costs by receiving a portion of the savings, according to the Post. There's a lot of talk about performance measures, and if you perform well you should get more money for what you do, Lubic said. According to the Post, the D.C. Council has awarded the center $450,000 in grants since 2005 (Levine, Washington Post, 12/21). Reprinted with permission from http://www.kaisernetwork.org. You can view the entire Kaiser Daily Health Policy Report, search the archives, or sign up for email delivery at http://www.kaisernetwork.org/dailyreports/healthpolicy. The Kaiser Daily Health Policy Report is published for kaisernetwork.org, a free service of The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation . C 2005 Advisory Board Company and Kaiser Family Foundation. All rights reserved.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Finding a birth pool
websites for buying and some hire are (there was even one on ebay a month or so back) http://www.simplybirth.com.au/ I have this one, a labouring woman used it a few weeks ago and really liked it then donated it to me. http://www.spa-hire.com.au/ http://www.pregnancy.com.au/ocean_reef_birth_pool.htm. - Original Message - From: Katy O'Neill To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 2:56 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Finding a birth pool Dear all, I know we have covered this, however I have been back over the past year and can't find any references. A women approached me about where to find a suitable birthing pool. She has been told it should be a mtr deep and she has only found the kids ones of 750cm. It will also need to fit in her kitchen. We are in rural NSW. Does anyone have any info I can give to her. Katy.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Finding a birth pool
We sell them!! Great for rural areas too, because they dont take much water! www.simplybirth.com.au - Original Message - From: Katy O'Neill To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:56 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Finding a birth pool Dear all, I know we have covered this, however I have been back over the past year and can't find any references. A women approached me about where to find a suitable birthing pool. She has been told it should be a mtr deep and she has only found the kids ones of 750cm. It will also need to fit in her kitchen. We are in rural NSW. Does anyone have any info I can give to her. Katy. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 7/01/2007
Re: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations?
To me the way women (society) veiws pregnancy reflects the current trend to rush for medical assistance in any situation. Common colds, neck pain, constipation, insomnia, depression, obesity, you name it. Instead of looking within at underlying emotional issues, considering diet, toxins such as refined foodstuffs, stress, chemicals.whatever, you get my drift, the list is long. Any way instead of resolving the underlying causes or problems there is an increasing tendance to run for a fix-up, a suppression of symptoms. I see too often pregnancy considered by women as a medical problem to be managed. What do some do the minute they think they are pregnantmake an appointment with a doctor for confirmation...and so it begins. Do the doctors tell them that evidence concludes midwives to be the specialists in nornmal maternity care? Yeah right! In society the common assumption is the highest scientifically qualifed person must be the best one for the job. Interesting what you say about having already paid up front and not wanting to loose out financially having already paid an Obs...THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS! I am personally in favour of women changing streams of care whatever their gestation. Just my ramblings Wendy - Original Message - From: Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations? Hi Rachael, I sometimes share your frustrations in wondering why on earth women choose OB's to care for them - particularly when they whinge about them so much! However what women are after is continuity of care because they want some feeling of certainty over who is going to be with them when they birth in short it gives them a feeling of security and the other main reason is the perceived quality of the care because an OB is regarded in Australia as the highest qualified of anyone to deal with pregnancy and birth. The other astonishing fact is that OB's don't even need to lift a finger to market themselves... it's all done for them by our medically supportive system. Yesterday I had a reunion with a group who had received mixed care; some by midwives some by private OB's and when they shared their stories and discovered such big differences in the way they had been cared for; the proof is in the pudding after all isn't it? A couple of them were saying I'm definitely going to a birth centre or have midwifery care next time! You might ask well why didn't they learn about this in the preparation classes, well they did, but they often say they are not able to change late in the pregnancy because they have already paid completely up front well in advance to the OB and they worry about getting their money back, they assume they can't, or they cannot get into a midwifery program or a birth centre at a very late stage of pregnancy. The reunion confirms a lot for them as they share their stories, one of the lovely couples yesterday had had a wonderful homebirth with the terrific midwives at St George hospital and the rest of the group were thrilled for them and listened to all the details It was a wonderful 6 hour labour, relaxing in a pool in the lounge room and the midwife just stayed quietly next to me and it was very peaceful... Warm hug Julie Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator ACE Grad-Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 F. (02) 9544 9257 Mobile 0401 2655 30 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.julieclarke.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Rachael Austin Sent: Monday, 8 January 2007 10:19 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations? I get so fustrated when I know people who choose subordinate (in my opinion) levels of care. What I mean is, healthy women who choose care under an obstetrician. They get roped into the high tech repeated u/s, monitoring, for the just in case ignorant way of thinking. They end up having highly intervened vaginal births (but they see as 'natural birth' because it is vaginal) or worse a necessary unnecessary cs. Does this make sense? I have been up most of the night stewing over this, because a 4 of my rellies have recently choosen this type of care to end up with the same results... and they think I'm weird because I choose to birth at home! OK so I'm a midwife (new at the game, but still), so maybe the extra knowledge helped me to make 'good' or appropriate choices for me, but what stops women from investigating choices for themselves? Why do they so blindly give themselves to medical men in every sense of the word? Do women really believe that they don't have the power to birth themselves and that they really need help? Do they really think nature got it that
Re: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations?
Big question with lots of history based in patriarchy, science and politics and big business. It takes time to change a culture of people who saw doctors as the saviours they were and can still be, and who have been socialised to see doctor as god. The thought they they may be wrong just doesnt enter the heads of some people. Ask your older relatives and friends why they are taking a certain medication... most just dont know. If its 'science' then it must be good and right in the eyes of most people in many cultures. It is indeed frustrating, women gave up breastfeeding because of the same 'science'! The good news is that there are pockets of resistance, women who have been encouraged through their lives to be enquiring, and knowledgable, and many of us have daughters, granddaughters and neices that we may be able to encourage the same way. Cheers, Di (not quite beating that addiction yet! Must go rest, on call tonight, might read just one more.) - Original Message - From: Dan Rachael Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:19 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations? I get so fustrated when I know people who choose subordinate (in my opinion) levels of care. What I mean is, healthy women who choose care under an obstetrician. They get roped into the high tech repeated u/s, monitoring, for the just in case ignorant way of thinking. They end up having highly intervened vaginal births (but they see as 'natural birth' because it is vaginal) or worse a necessary unnecessary cs. Does this make sense? I have been up most of the night stewing over this, because a 4 of my rellies have recently choosen this type of care to end up with the same results... and they think I'm weird because I choose to birth at home! OK so I'm a midwife (new at the game, but still), so maybe the extra knowledge helped me to make 'good' or appropriate choices for me, but what stops women from investigating choices for themselves? Why do they so blindly give themselves to medical men in every sense of the word? Do women really believe that they don't have the power to birth themselves and that they really need help? Do they really think nature got it that wrong? AHH!! How do you get 'over it'? How do you talk with these women about birth in social conversatin without lecturing them? Hope this makes sense.. i'm tired! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1960 (20070106) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Finding a birth pool
A metre deep would be far too deep in my opinion, think of being on hands and knees…Most of the birthing pools I’ve known and loved have been about 60cms deep up to the fill line, and that seems perfect for just about any position. The La Bassine Made in Water pools are a pretty good alternative to a hard sided pool if you want something that’s portable. Have a look on the website, HYPERLINK http://www.madeinwater.com/www.madeinwater.com and follow the links to the Australian distributor. You could also have a look on Joyous Birth website, I believe they are compiling a list of birth pools Australia wide available for hire. Hope that helps, Tania X _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Katy O'Neill Sent: Monday, 8 January 2007 3:27 PM To: Ozmidwifery Subject: [ozmidwifery] Finding a birth pool Dear all, I know we have covered this, however I have been back over the past year and can't find any references. A women approached me about where to find a suitable birthing pool. She has been told it should be a mtr deep and she has only found the kids ones of 750cm. It will also need to fit in her kitchen. We are in rural NSW. Does anyone have any info I can give to her. Katy. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 7/01/2007 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 7/01/2007
RE: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations?
Does anyone have a DL brochure about midwifery care with all the facts to have mailed out, with an introduction letter, as an education/PR campaign targeted for GP's around Australia? They are first in line with pregnant women, that's where opportunity lies... It's a great idea to build relationships and familiarity with them, on an ongoing basis, not a 'drop forget' campaign. Even follow up with phone calls asking if they received it and if they have any questions! You could also give them some brochures/info book to hand out to pregnant women which is targeted at women - a different flyer which speaks to women in their language and addresses their concerns. The flyer for GP's needs to speak directly to GP's and address their concerns, encouraging them to offer their 'patients' options and make them feel good for helping. All you need to do is ask, my local GP stocks my brochures and also Choices brochures when I was helping there - goes through more than the local birth centre. Obviously this is a huge task, but as an example, they have a Doula Register who did this for Doulas and they had great success in QLD and NSW, but I think it was with Obs not GP's. Others wrote letters to Obs about what they do, and then they started getting referrals from Obs, so the Doulas would write back and thank the Obs. The Doula Register seems to be based in and focused on those two states, we are now wanting to speak to them about doing it in other states too. So is there a capacity somewhere or somehow (or perhaps already has done and can advise the success) to do a massive drive? There won't be enough midwives to service the population if it does work but I guess but you could even choose a few test pilot suburbs across Australia or a controlled trial, in areas of varying economic levels(?). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:58 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations? To me the way women (society) veiws pregnancy reflects the current trend to rush for medical assistance in any situation. Common colds, neck pain, constipation, insomnia, depression, obesity, you name it. Instead of looking within at underlying emotional issues, considering diet, toxins such as refined foodstuffs, stress, chemicals.whatever, you get my drift, the list is long. Any way instead of resolving the underlying causes or problems there is an increasing tendance to run for a fix-up, a suppression of symptoms. I see too often pregnancy considered by women as a medical problem to be managed. What do some do the minute they think they are pregnantmake an appointment with a doctor for confirmation...and so it begins. Do the doctors tell them that evidence concludes midwives to be the specialists in nornmal maternity care? Yeah right! In society the common assumption is the highest scientifically qualifed person must be the best one for the job. Interesting what you say about having already paid up front and not wanting to loose out financially having already paid an Obs...THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS! I am personally in favour of women changing streams of care whatever their gestation. Just my ramblings Wendy - Original Message - From: Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations? Hi Rachael, I sometimes share your frustrations in wondering why on earth women choose OB's to care for them - particularly when they whinge about them so much! However what women are after is continuity of care because they want some feeling of certainty over who is going to be with them when they birth in short it gives them a feeling of security and the other main reason is the perceived quality of the care because an OB is regarded in Australia as the highest qualified of anyone to deal with pregnancy and birth. The other astonishing fact is that OB's don't even need to lift a finger to market themselves... it's all done for them by our medically supportive system. Yesterday I had a reunion with a group who had received mixed care; some by midwives some by private OB's and when they shared their stories and discovered such big differences in the way they had been cared for; the proof is in the pudding after all isn't it? A couple of them were saying I'm definitely going to a birth centre or have midwifery care next time! You might ask well why didn't they learn about this in the preparation classes, well they did, but they often say they are not able to change late in the pregnancy because they have already paid completely up front well in advance to the OB and they worry about getting their money back, they assume they can't, or they cannot get into a midwifery program or a birth centre at a very late stage of pregnancy. The
