RE: [ozmidwifery] Frustration
That must be very frustrating. Do you or your other midwife colleagues have any strategies for challenging these management decisions given that they are clearly not evidence based, are gross overservicing and just plain dangerous? J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michelle Windsor Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2007 8:50 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Frustration It amazes me that sometimes these doctors just don't seem to learn. We have had a run of inductions and LUSCS for either SGA or LGA lately because 'the scan said such such'. The SGA's that I've seen have ranged from 2.8-3.1kg and the LGA's from 3.4-4.1kg. One lady recently had a LUCSC for her 4th bub because by USS it was 12 pound. Surprise, suprise out came an 8 pounder which was less than her last vaginally born baby. Grr Michelle - Original Message From: Ken Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, 1 March, 2007 2:46:51 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Frustration Delightful doctor told his lady that the episi he cut which extended to a 3rd degree tear was so extensive that she would need a C/S next time. Also she would need to be reviewed, and may need the repair repaired by another dr. One wonders what he has done. Of course it will all be her and/or the baby's fault. Gr -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au http://www.acegraphics.com.au/ to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maternity coalition
Hey Lisa, I'm a bit baffled by that quote. My dictionary states that advocacy means - 'support for people who are thought likely to be disregarded or to have difficulty in gaining attention, so that their opinion is listened to' And that lobbying means - 'a group of campaigners and representatives of particular interests who try to influence political policy on a particular issue' Essentially isn't it one in the same - advocacy being on a more personal level and lobbying being on a political level. I can't really see how you can have one without the other. You need the personal to get to the political. There would be no point in lobbying the Govt or politicians if there is no one that you are advocating for. In my limited understanding and it is limited, because I don't work for or on behalf of MC, but don't Unions and other orgs or bodies that deal with such issues do both. Whilst advocating on behalf of a group of people for a particular issue, they try to influence political policy on that particular issue. Ok, I'll stop getting off track - back to Uni work! Jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett Sent: Friday, 2 March 2007 12:56 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maternity coalition The way I understand the maternity coalition are formally recognised as a lobbying goup. This is something I read on a public forum about the MC, Lobbying is a pretty dispassionate job and advocacy work can get in the way of effective lobbying Well, I know that MC did a lot of individual consumer advocacy in the early days but, realistically, MC cannot be an advocacy group and a lobby group simultaneously. Again, it's a simple issue of (wo)man power. Consider the fact that all active members are volunteers and almost all are mothers with babies and young children themselves and you'll understand that the face2face advocacy work is very time consuming and extremely stressful for an untrained individual to take on. You don't want unskilled people doing advocacy work!! Maybe it should be clearer what exactly the maternity coalition do so woman understand how it's helping them and in what capacity and we can really get it out there. Lisa Barrett From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:37 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: web sites for antenatal information Dear Carol I have just squizzed your website and notice Maternity Coalition missing. It would be useful to link MC to help women to understand that they can challenge obstetric domination (should they want to). Also helps to get it out there that there is a national maternity consumer advocacy organisation. Kind regards Justine Caines National President Maternity Coalition Inc PO Box 625 SCONE NSW 2329 Ph: (02) 65453612 Fax: (02)65482902 Mob: 0408 210273 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.maternitycoalition.org.au - Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] to turn on/off the digest mode. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] to turn on/off vacation mode. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you need assistance or have a quesion. To unsubscribe, click on the following web page. http://cgi.mail-list.com/u?ln=ozmidwifery[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/706 - Release Date: 28/02/2007 4:09 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/706 - Release Date: 28/02/2007 4:09 PM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maternity coalition
Like a said Jo, It's something I read and I wondered what it meant in terms of women. I suppose the difference between the two definitions to me is that one is directly involved with the women on a individual basis to get their opinion noted and their needs addressed. and the other is involved with changing political policy but doesn't involve individuals and their difficulties but is trying over all to change for the common good. I was just asking. Can a woman come to the MC one an individual basis and get help from to address her individual difficulties with the system. Which is what consumer advocacy implies to me. Or is it you take each case and put them together to lobby public opinion and government for change which is totally different. Or is it both. I field calls from many people with problems in the system looking for help. I do give strategies and advice but some woman aren't able to get what they want alone it would be nice to know that I could refer them on to a group that could get involved. Often they don't actually want an independent midwife but just general help. Although I do the best I can I'm one person. I didn't think the maternity coalition did that sort of thing. If they do I'll start suggesting women get in touch. Lisa Barrett -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maternity coalition
Lisa, a woman on BB had a terrible time with a nasty Ob, I put her in touch with MC. She joined as a member (so she could be represented) and her case was dealt with by the MC. I am not sure whats happened since but he's had complaints against him before. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 8:13 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maternity coalition Like a said Jo, It's something I read and I wondered what it meant in terms of women. I suppose the difference between the two definitions to me is that one is directly involved with the women on a individual basis to get their opinion noted and their needs addressed. and the other is involved with changing political policy but doesn't involve individuals and their difficulties but is trying over all to change for the common good. I was just asking. Can a woman come to the MC one an individual basis and get help from to address her individual difficulties with the system. Which is what consumer advocacy implies to me. Or is it you take each case and put them together to lobby public opinion and government for change which is totally different. Or is it both. I field calls from many people with problems in the system looking for help. I do give strategies and advice but some woman aren't able to get what they want alone it would be nice to know that I could refer them on to a group that could get involved. Often they don't actually want an independent midwife but just general help. Although I do the best I can I'm one person. I didn't think the maternity coalition did that sort of thing. If they do I'll start suggesting women get in touch. Lisa Barrett -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maternity coalition
What do I do as an MC member (actually WA State President, but that's by-the-by)? Well, for starters, I do the following (and more besides): I help out individual women with questions about maternity care in WA. Perhaps they want to know where they can get a waterbirth (answer: virtually nowhere in WA public hospitals), so I can tell them what the situation is. I can point them in the right directions to independent midwives, support groups etc. I sit on a number of committees: the Community Midwifery Programme Steering Committee, the Exec Committee of the WA Branch of ACM, and a Working Party for implementing a BMid at a local university. I recently was part of a workshop canvassing comment on the new draft consultation document on maternity services (Future Directions) and submitted a written submission on the same document. I also met with Dept of Health personnel on the same subject. I keep an eye on local and national newspapers and write comments where I believe maternity services (and midwifery-led care in particular) need a balanced comment. Yes - I do lobby (sometimes), and I do advocate (sometimes), and a whole load of things beside. I may march on parliament if needs be, and we do meet regularly with MP's. What I do, do is to try and represent the women and men who come to me, and call for midwifery-led care as the normal/default model for maternity services. Maternity Coalition also provides prenatal information sessions Choices for Childbirth, although not in WA. MC is much more than a lobbying organization (or an advocacy service). We represent consumers and are an umbrella organization for local groups. For those of you who know the National Childbirth Trust in the UK, there are many similarities between MC and the NCT in their fledgling years MC are always looking for people to support their work - why not join? Oh - by the way - I'm the national membership secretary so all you need to do is contact me :-) Debbie Slater Perth, Wa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett Sent: Friday, 2 March 2007 6:13 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maternity coalition Like a said Jo, It's something I read and I wondered what it meant in terms of women. I suppose the difference between the two definitions to me is that one is directly involved with the women on a individual basis to get their opinion noted and their needs addressed. and the other is involved with changing political policy but doesn't involve individuals and their difficulties but is trying over all to change for the common good. I was just asking. Can a woman come to the MC one an individual basis and get help from to address her individual difficulties with the system. Which is what consumer advocacy implies to me. Or is it you take each case and put them together to lobby public opinion and government for change which is totally different. Or is it both. I field calls from many people with problems in the system looking for help. I do give strategies and advice but some woman aren't able to get what they want alone it would be nice to know that I could refer them on to a group that could get involved. Often they don't actually want an independent midwife but just general help. Although I do the best I can I'm one person. I didn't think the maternity coalition did that sort of thing. If they do I'll start suggesting women get in touch. Lisa Barrett -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Frustration
Unfortunately at the moment the decision to induce is made by the doctors in the antenatal clinics, and often we are only seeing the women when they arrive in birthsuite for induction. I like to discuss the reasons for IOL, and the pros and cons but not sure what other midwives do. Hopefully soon we will have a midwifery model of care so that alot of this unnecessary intervention can be avoided. Cheers Michelle - Original Message From: Janet at home [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, 1 March, 2007 10:20:52 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Frustration That must be very frustrating. Do you or your other midwife colleagues have any strategies for challenging these management decisions given that they are clearly not evidence based, are gross overservicing and just plain dangerous? J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michelle Windsor Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2007 8:50 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Frustration It amazes me that sometimes these doctors just don't seem to learn. We have had a run of inductions and LUSCS for either SGA or LGA lately because 'the scan said such such'. The SGA's that I've seen have ranged from 2.8-3.1kg and the LGA's from 3.4-4.1kg. One lady recently had a LUCSC for her 4th bub because by USS it was 12 pound. Surprise, suprise out came an 8 pounder which was less than her last vaginally born baby. Grr Michelle - Original Message From: Ken Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, 1 March, 2007 2:46:51 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Frustration Delightful doctor told his lady that the episi he cut which extended to a 3rd degree tear was so extensive that she would need a C/S next time. Also she would need to be reviewed, and may need the repair repaired by another dr. One wonders what he has done. Of course it will all be her and/or the baby's fault. Gr -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
RE: [ozmidwifery] Frustration
One tries, but often these women have been convinced that an IOL or C/S is vital. When queried,or one tries to counsel them the reply is often 'O, I'm here now, I may as well go through with it.' -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Janet at home Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2007 11:21 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Frustration That must be very frustrating. Do you or your other midwife colleagues have any strategies for challenging these management decisions given that they are clearly not evidence based, are gross overservicing and just plain dangerous? J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michelle Windsor Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2007 8:50 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Frustration It amazes me that sometimes these doctors just don't seem to learn. We have had a run of inductions and LUSCS for either SGA or LGA lately because 'the scan said such such'. The SGA's that I've seen have ranged from 2.8-3.1kg and the LGA's from 3.4-4.1kg. One lady recently had a LUCSC for her 4th bub because by USS it was 12 pound. Surprise, suprise out came an 8 pounder which was less than her last vaginally born baby. Grr Michelle - Original Message From: Ken Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, 1 March, 2007 2:46:51 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Frustration Delightful doctor told his lady that the episi he cut which extended to a 3rd degree tear was so extensive that she would need a C/S next time. Also she would need to be reviewed, and may need the repair repaired by another dr. One wonders what he has done. Of course it will all be her and/or the baby's fault. Gr -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Frustration
I agree, not only is it intensely frustrating but one then has to regain this woman's confidence as you prepare to be the primary carer in labour. It is however a true joy when a woman decides to listen to all the evidence, decides that a social induction is perhaps not the simple process she thought and goes home to await SOL :) Alesa Alesa Koziol Clinical Midwifery Educator Melbourne - Original Message - From: Ken Ward To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Frustration One tries, but often these women have been convinced that an IOL or C/S is vital. When queried,or one tries to counsel them the reply is often 'O, I'm here now, I may as well go through with it.' -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Janet at home Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2007 11:21 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Frustration That must be very frustrating. Do you or your other midwife colleagues have any strategies for challenging these management decisions given that they are clearly not evidence based, are gross overservicing and just plain dangerous? J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michelle Windsor Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2007 8:50 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Frustration It amazes me that sometimes these doctors just don't seem to learn. We have had a run of inductions and LUSCS for either SGA or LGA lately because 'the scan said such such'. The SGA's that I've seen have ranged from 2.8-3.1kg and the LGA's from 3.4-4.1kg. One lady recently had a LUCSC for her 4th bub because by USS it was 12 pound. Surprise, suprise out came an 8 pounder which was less than her last vaginally born baby. Grr Michelle - Original Message From: Ken Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, 1 March, 2007 2:46:51 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Frustration Delightful doctor told his lady that the episi he cut which extended to a 3rd degree tear was so extensive that she would need a C/S next time. Also she would need to be reviewed, and may need the repair repaired by another dr. One wonders what he has done. Of course it will all be her and/or the baby's fault. Gr -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
