Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Abby and Toby]

 The phototherapy equipment is often on wheels - the baby can be given
 phototherapy but be in the same room as mum. In fact, in most places the
 equipment is available for hire and mum can give at home.
 Good luck.
 Nikki Macfarlane
 Director, Childbirth International
 www.childbirthinternational.com


I wish we had known all that Nikki.

I know this sounds unbelieveable but it is all true. I don't know exact
times.

After a very tiring day, my sis finally decided to leave Jamies side at
about 9:30pm when BIL took Aiden(other son) home. Sis was giving Jamie a
feed before she went to bed. During the feed along came a nurse who told her
to stop because a doctor wanted to speak with her. She said she wouldn't
stop feeding him but would talk to the doctor when she had finished.

She went out of the nursery and to the room where her bed was set up. She
wasn't admitted as a patient, but they provided her with a bed. Outside her
room were two men and a wheel chair and inside were the doctor, a midwife
and the head of the nursing unit.

The doc started asking questions about psychosis, without even telling her
who he was, and when she asked he said he was a psychiatrist. She grabbed
the phone and rang my mum while he was telling her not to call anyone. By
this stage it was past 10pm. He got on the phone to my mum saying that he
was going to admit Sis to the psych ward as an involuntary and unwilling
patient. My mum told him if he did he would end up there! LOL! My mum is
good value! They told Sis that if she put up a fight they would sedate her.
It seemed like they had waited till everyone had left before they approached
Sis.

My mum arrived in 5 mins and then BIL arrived in 20mins. BIL tried to get
some info from the doc as this had all happened completely out of the blue.
No warning, no sign of concern from the midwives and nurses in contact with
Sis except some of them didn't like her asking questions. Sis, BIL and mum
were given no answers. We are all so aware of the signs and symptoms of PNP
and PND and sis was definitley not showing any, just tired and stressed
because of her very long day.

They kept asking her questions, the doc and head nurse, till 1:30am and
proceeded to tell her that she seemed flighty I would too at 1:30am,
with a son in hospital being told I couldn't feed him on demand because he
might die of brain damage!

Anywayto cut a very long story short, a midwife stayed outside Sis room,
BIL slept on the floor, my mum stayed till 2:30am and Sis tried to sleep.

I got a call at 7:00am, completely oblivious to the goings on of last night
and raced down there.

A different psychiatrist came along and met with Sis, BIL, my dad and I. He
said he didn't understand what or why all this had happened. He asked Sis
some questions and spoke to all of us and said he was sooo sorry, he thought
it was some kind of beaurocratic thing!!! Like they couldn't figure out how
to book her into maternity??!!

So today we spent the day in hospital and I watched my sister go from,
yesterday, stressed and tired but doing a wonderful job mothering, to today,
an emotional, sleep deprived wreck, who was now questioning herself as a
mum! I don't know how this could've happened, it seems so sureal!

The head nurse that was on this afternoon was so apologetic and couldn't
believe what had happened either. She said that there had been things
written in Sis files that were not true, like the Mental Health Emergency
Team had come to speak to Sis and that they had called the psychiatrist,
they never came. All the nurses today and midwives were saying to Sis that
they couldn't understand any of it either.

This evening I rang an independent midwife and she came to visit Sis and
just tried to talk with her and stuff, she was really lovely.

The worst part of this, is not how or why this happened, but what effect it
has had on Sis. I am really feeling for her, it has started the ball rolling
in her head and she doesn't see how she can stop her negative feelings and
thoughts about herself.

I don't understand how any of this could happen.

Love Abby




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Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Abby and Toby]

 I too was surprised about limiting the breastfeeding to four hourly.  Is
it
 possible that they meant no less than four hourly ?  Normally you would be
 going for third hourly if anything to push the bilirubin through and keep
 the baby hydrated under lights as you say Nikki.
 Helen

After much arguing, she breastfed every four hours and expressed every two!
They also kept telling her that if his levels didn't come down that she
would have to stop feeding him and put him on formula!
I am really angry at the lack of respect, care and knowledge at that
hospital! I really don't know how I will cut it as a doula in the hospital
system. The only experiences I have had with hospitals and birthing women or
new mums has been really negative all the mums, inc myself when I was at
Lismore base, have been treated like idiots and it seems the staff have
acted like they care more for the babies than the mums.

If you work in the system, how do you cope?

Love Abby


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This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[jayne]

OMG!!!  This is terrible  How dare they!

I so hope your sister has the strength when things settle down to follow
this up and take action against these idiots.

Regards

Jayne


- Original Message - 
From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:33 PM
Subject: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED


  The phototherapy equipment is often on wheels - the baby can be given
  phototherapy but be in the same room as mum. In fact, in most places the
  equipment is available for hire and mum can give at home.
  Good luck.
  Nikki Macfarlane
  Director, Childbirth International
  www.childbirthinternational.com


 I wish we had known all that Nikki.

 I know this sounds unbelieveable but it is all true. I don't know exact
 times.

 After a very tiring day, my sis finally decided to leave Jamies side at
 about 9:30pm when BIL took Aiden(other son) home. Sis was giving Jamie a
 feed before she went to bed. During the feed along came a nurse who told
her
 to stop because a doctor wanted to speak with her. She said she wouldn't
 stop feeding him but would talk to the doctor when she had finished.

 She went out of the nursery and to the room where her bed was set up. She
 wasn't admitted as a patient, but they provided her with a bed. Outside
her
 room were two men and a wheel chair and inside were the doctor, a midwife
 and the head of the nursing unit.

 The doc started asking questions about psychosis, without even telling her
 who he was, and when she asked he said he was a psychiatrist. She grabbed
 the phone and rang my mum while he was telling her not to call anyone. By
 this stage it was past 10pm. He got on the phone to my mum saying that he
 was going to admit Sis to the psych ward as an involuntary and unwilling
 patient. My mum told him if he did he would end up there! LOL! My mum is
 good value! They told Sis that if she put up a fight they would sedate
her.
 It seemed like they had waited till everyone had left before they
approached
 Sis.

 My mum arrived in 5 mins and then BIL arrived in 20mins. BIL tried to get
 some info from the doc as this had all happened completely out of the
blue.
 No warning, no sign of concern from the midwives and nurses in contact
with
 Sis except some of them didn't like her asking questions. Sis, BIL and mum
 were given no answers. We are all so aware of the signs and symptoms of
PNP
 and PND and sis was definitley not showing any, just tired and stressed
 because of her very long day.

 They kept asking her questions, the doc and head nurse, till 1:30am and
 proceeded to tell her that she seemed flighty I would too at 1:30am,
 with a son in hospital being told I couldn't feed him on demand because he
 might die of brain damage!

 Anywayto cut a very long story short, a midwife stayed outside Sis
room,
 BIL slept on the floor, my mum stayed till 2:30am and Sis tried to sleep.

 I got a call at 7:00am, completely oblivious to the goings on of last
night
 and raced down there.

 A different psychiatrist came along and met with Sis, BIL, my dad and I.
He
 said he didn't understand what or why all this had happened. He asked Sis
 some questions and spoke to all of us and said he was sooo sorry, he
thought
 it was some kind of beaurocratic thing!!! Like they couldn't figure out
how
 to book her into maternity??!!

 So today we spent the day in hospital and I watched my sister go from,
 yesterday, stressed and tired but doing a wonderful job mothering, to
today,
 an emotional, sleep deprived wreck, who was now questioning herself as a
 mum! I don't know how this could've happened, it seems so sureal!

 The head nurse that was on this afternoon was so apologetic and couldn't
 believe what had happened either. She said that there had been things
 written in Sis files that were not true, like the Mental Health Emergency
 Team had come to speak to Sis and that they had called the psychiatrist,
 they never came. All the nurses today and midwives were saying to Sis that
 they couldn't understand any of it either.

 This evening I rang an independent midwife and she came to visit Sis and
 just tried to talk with her and stuff, she was really lovely.

 The worst part of this, is not how or why this happened, but what effect
it
 has had on Sis. I am really feeling for her, it has started the ball
rolling
 in her head and she doesn't see how she can stop her negative feelings and
 thoughts about herself.

 I don't understand how any of this could happen.

 Love Abby




 --
 This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
 Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.



--
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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.

RE: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[denise boscheinen]

HAS ANYONE INFORMATION ON PHOTOTHERAPRY BLANKETS THIS MIGHT SOLVE THE 
PROBLEM OF REMOVING BABIES FROM UNDER LIGHTS FOR BREAST FEEDING. DENISE B


From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:33:57 +1100
 The phototherapy equipment is often on wheels - the baby can be given
 phototherapy but be in the same room as mum. In fact, in most places the
 equipment is available for hire and mum can give at home.
 Good luck.
 Nikki Macfarlane
 Director, Childbirth International
 www.childbirthinternational.com
I wish we had known all that Nikki.

I know this sounds unbelieveable but it is all true. I don't know exact
times.
After a very tiring day, my sis finally decided to leave Jamies side at
about 9:30pm when BIL took Aiden(other son) home. Sis was giving Jamie a
feed before she went to bed. During the feed along came a nurse who told 
her
to stop because a doctor wanted to speak with her. She said she wouldn't
stop feeding him but would talk to the doctor when she had finished.

She went out of the nursery and to the room where her bed was set up. She
wasn't admitted as a patient, but they provided her with a bed. Outside her
room were two men and a wheel chair and inside were the doctor, a midwife
and the head of the nursing unit.
The doc started asking questions about psychosis, without even telling her
who he was, and when she asked he said he was a psychiatrist. She grabbed
the phone and rang my mum while he was telling her not to call anyone. By
this stage it was past 10pm. He got on the phone to my mum saying that he
was going to admit Sis to the psych ward as an involuntary and unwilling
patient. My mum told him if he did he would end up there! LOL! My mum is
good value! They told Sis that if she put up a fight they would sedate her.
It seemed like they had waited till everyone had left before they 
approached
Sis.

My mum arrived in 5 mins and then BIL arrived in 20mins. BIL tried to get
some info from the doc as this had all happened completely out of the blue.
No warning, no sign of concern from the midwives and nurses in contact with
Sis except some of them didn't like her asking questions. Sis, BIL and mum
were given no answers. We are all so aware of the signs and symptoms of PNP
and PND and sis was definitley not showing any, just tired and stressed
because of her very long day.
They kept asking her questions, the doc and head nurse, till 1:30am and
proceeded to tell her that she seemed flighty I would too at 1:30am,
with a son in hospital being told I couldn't feed him on demand because he
might die of brain damage!
Anywayto cut a very long story short, a midwife stayed outside Sis 
room,
BIL slept on the floor, my mum stayed till 2:30am and Sis tried to sleep.

I got a call at 7:00am, completely oblivious to the goings on of last night
and raced down there.
A different psychiatrist came along and met with Sis, BIL, my dad and I. He
said he didn't understand what or why all this had happened. He asked Sis
some questions and spoke to all of us and said he was sooo sorry, he 
thought
it was some kind of beaurocratic thing!!! Like they couldn't figure out how
to book her into maternity??!!

So today we spent the day in hospital and I watched my sister go from,
yesterday, stressed and tired but doing a wonderful job mothering, to 
today,
an emotional, sleep deprived wreck, who was now questioning herself as a
mum! I don't know how this could've happened, it seems so sureal!

The head nurse that was on this afternoon was so apologetic and couldn't
believe what had happened either. She said that there had been things
written in Sis files that were not true, like the Mental Health Emergency
Team had come to speak to Sis and that they had called the psychiatrist,
they never came. All the nurses today and midwives were saying to Sis that
they couldn't understand any of it either.
This evening I rang an independent midwife and she came to visit Sis and
just tried to talk with her and stuff, she was really lovely.
The worst part of this, is not how or why this happened, but what effect it
has had on Sis. I am really feeling for her, it has started the ball 
rolling
in her head and she doesn't see how she can stop her negative feelings and
thoughts about herself.

I don't understand how any of this could happen.

Love Abby



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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to  
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Re: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Judy Chapman]

This is one of the saddest stories that I have heard in ages and how those on that fateful night can call themselves midwives has got me beat. I am not a huge believer in the legal system but I think, down the track, your sis has a case to call the hospital to task and expect explanations to her satisfaction or to take the matter further for psychological damage. 
Cheers
JudyAbby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The phototherapy equipment is often on wheels - the baby can be given phototherapy but be in the same room as mum. In fact, in most places the equipment is available for hire and mum can give at home. Good luck. Nikki Macfarlane Director, Childbirth International www.childbirthinternational.comI wish we had known all that Nikki.I know this sounds unbelieveable but it is all true. I don't know exacttimes.After a very tiring day, my sis finally decided to leave Jamies side atabout 9:30pm when BIL took Aiden(other son) home. Sis was giving Jamie afeed before she went to bed. During the feed along came a nurse who told herto stop because a "doctor" wanted to speak with her. She said she wouldn'tstop feeding him but would talk to the doctor when she had finished.She
 went out of the nursery and to the room where her bed was set up. Shewasn't admitted as a patient, but they provided her with a bed. Outside herroom were two men and a wheel chair and inside were the doctor, a midwifeand the head of the nursing unit.The doc started asking questions about psychosis, without even telling herwho he was, and when she asked he said he was a psychiatrist. She grabbedthe phone and rang my mum while he was telling her not to call anyone. Bythis stage it was past 10pm. He got on the phone to my mum saying that hewas going to admit Sis to the psych ward as an involuntary and unwillingpatient. My mum told him if he did he would end up there! LOL! My mum isgood value! They told Sis that if she put up a fight they would sedate her.It seemed like they had waited till everyone had left before they approachedSis.My mum arrived in 5 mins and then BIL arrived in 20mins. BIL tried to getsome info!
  from the
 doc as this had all happened completely out of the blue.No warning, no sign of concern from the midwives and nurses in contact withSis except some of them didn't like her asking questions. Sis, BIL and mumwere given no answers. We are all so aware of the signs and symptoms of PNPand PND and sis was definitley not showing any, just tired and stressedbecause of her very long day.They kept asking her questions, the doc and head nurse, till 1:30am andproceeded to tell her that she seemed "flighty" I would too at 1:30am,with a son in hospital being told I couldn't feed him on demand because hemight die of brain damage!Anywayto cut a very long story short, a midwife stayed outside Sis room,BIL slept on the floor, my mum stayed till 2:30am and Sis tried to sleep.I got a call at 7:00am, completely oblivious to the goings on of last nightand raced down there.A different psychiatrist came along and met wi!
 th Sis,
 BIL, my dad and I. Hesaid he didn't understand what or why all this had happened. He asked Sissome questions and spoke to all of us and said he was sooo sorry, he thoughtit was some kind of beaurocratic thing!!! Like they couldn't figure out howto book her into maternity??!!So today we spent the day in hospital and I watched my sister go from,yesterday, stressed and tired but doing a wonderful job mothering, to today,an emotional, sleep deprived wreck, who was now questioning herself as amum! I don't know how this could've happened, it seems so sureal!The head nurse that was on this afternoon was so apologetic and couldn'tbelieve what had happened either. She said that there had been thingswritten in Sis files that were not true, like the Mental Health EmergencyTeam had come to speak to Sis and that they had called the psychiatrist,they never came. All the nurses today and midwives were saying to Sis thatthey c!
 ouldn't
 understand any of it either.This evening I rang an independent midwife and she came to visit Sis andjust tried to talk with her and stuff, she was really lovely.The worst part of this, is not how or why this happened, but what effect ithas had on Sis. I am really feeling for her, it has started the ball rollingin her head and she doesn't see how she can stop her negative feelings andthoughts about herself.I don't understand how any of this could happen.Love Abby--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Judy Chapman]

Abby, I am sorry that you have only had negative from 'the system'. Midwifery is such a changing climate. I am tempted to say that Australia is going from the obstetric nurse system to midwifery and different hospitals are changing/not changing at different rates. There are some out there, the one I am in especially, who are really working hard to do the RIGHT thing by women and to really be WITH WOMAN and to use evidence based care. To the extent that we are starting to get a small trickle of women who have heard about it and who will travel just to experience it. 
I hope that your sis is managing to hang in and I know that you will support her to the hilt.
All the best
JudyAbby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I too was surprised about limiting the breastfeeding to four hourly. Isit possible that they meant no less than four hourly ? Normally you would be going for third hourly if anything to push the bilirubin through and keep the baby hydrated under lights as you say Nikki. HelenAfter much arguing, she breastfed every four hours and expressed every two!They also kept telling her that if his levels didn't come down that shewould have to stop feeding him and put him on formula!I am really angry at the lack of respect, care and knowledge at thathospital! I really don't know how I will cut it as a doula in the hospitalsystem. The only experiences I have had with hospitals and birthing women ornew mums has been really negative all the mums, inc myself when I was atLismore base, have been treated like idiots a!
 nd it
 seems the staff haveacted like they care more for the babies than the mums.If you work in the system, how do you cope?Love Abby--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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RE: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Judy Chapman]

At my previous hospital where we had an extended midwifery scheme we had a biliblanket which we were able to send home with mothers who needed them. Typically, these women had gone home early, follow up visits had identified jaundice requiring phototherapy, and unless the woman was completely unable to follow instructions we were able to treat the baby at home. Daily visits to check SBR and the baby's feeding etc, and the results were very good. I think the success of this depended on the degree of responsability of the woman and, of course, most are very responsable. 
Cheers
Judydenise boscheinen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
HAS ANYONE INFORMATION ON PHOTOTHERAPRY BLANKETS THIS MIGHT SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF REMOVING BABIES FROM UNDER LIGHTS FOR BREAST FEEDING. DENISE BFrom: "Abby and Toby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDEDDate: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:33:57 +1100  The phototherapy equipment is often on wheels - the baby can be given  phototherapy but be in the same room as mum. In fact, in most places the  equipment is available for hire and mum can give at home.  Good luck.  Nikki Macfarlane  Director, Childbirth International  www.childbirthinternational.comI wish we had known all that
 Nikki.I know this sounds unbelieveable but it is all true. I don't know exacttimes.After a very tiring day, my sis finally decided to leave Jamies side atabout 9:30pm when BIL took Aiden(other son) home. Sis was giving Jamie afeed before she went to bed. During the feed along came a nurse who told herto stop because a "doctor" wanted to speak with her. She said she wouldn'tstop feeding him but would talk to the doctor when she had finished.She went out of the nursery and to the room where her bed was set up. Shewasn't admitted as a patient, but they provided her with a bed. Outside herroom were two men and a wheel chair and inside were the doctor, a midwifeand the head of the nursing unit.The doc started asking questions about psychosis, without even telling herwho he was, and when she asked he said he was a psychiat!
 rist. She
 grabbedthe phone and rang my mum while he was telling her not to call anyone. Bythis stage it was past 10pm. He got on the phone to my mum saying that hewas going to admit Sis to the psych ward as an involuntary and unwillingpatient. My mum told him if he did he would end up there! LOL! My mum isgood value! They told Sis that if she put up a fight they would sedate her.It seemed like they had waited till everyone had left before they approachedSis.My mum arrived in 5 mins and then BIL arrived in 20mins. BIL tried to getsome info from the doc as this had all happened completely out of the blue.No warning, no sign of concern from the midwives and nurses in contact withSis except some of them didn't like her asking questions. Sis, BIL and mumwere given no answers. We are all so aware of the signs and symptoms of PNPand PND and sis was definitley not showing a!
 ny, just
 tired and stressedbecause of her very long day.They kept asking her questions, the doc and head nurse, till 1:30am andproceeded to tell her that she seemed "flighty" I would too at 1:30am,with a son in hospital being told I couldn't feed him on demand because hemight die of brain damage!Anywayto cut a very long story short, a midwife stayed outside Sis room,BIL slept on the floor, my mum stayed till 2:30am and Sis tried to sleep.I got a call at 7:00am, completely oblivious to the goings on of last nightand raced down there.A different psychiatrist came along and met with Sis, BIL, my dad and I. Hesaid he didn't understand what or why all this had happened. He asked Sissome questions and spoke to all of us and said he was sooo sorry, he thoughtit was some kind of beaurocratic thing!!! Like they couldn't figure out
 howto book her into maternity??!!So today we spent the day in hospital and I watched my sister go from,yesterday, stressed and tired but doing a wonderful job mothering, to today,an emotional, sleep deprived wreck, who was now questioning herself as amum! I don't know how this could've happened, it seems so sureal!The head nurse that was on this afternoon was so apologetic and couldn'tbelieve what had happened either. She said that there had been thingswritten in Sis files that were not true, like the Mental Health EmergencyTeam had come to speak to Sis and that they had called the psychiatrist,they never came. All the nurses today and midwives were saying to Sis thatthey couldn't understand any of it either.This evening I rang an independent midwife and she came to visit Sis andjust tried to talk with her and stuff, she was really
 lovely.The worst part of this, is not how or why this happened, but what effect ithas had on Sis. I am really feeling for her, it has started the ball rollingin her head and she doesn't see how she can stop her negative feelings andthoughts about herself.I don't understand how any of 

Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[*G and S*]

Abby,
 I'm 
so very sorry that this is happening to you, your sister and her family. 

I can't believe that there is this huge issue 
re. breast feeding her babe. Three of my five went under lights and 
I was encouraged to b.f regularly. Not once was I told not too. How 
has this happened to your sister? Why does there seem to be such BIG 
differences in attitudes, opinions and procedures between 
hospitals?
I just don't understand...
Keep close to your 'sis' and help her to pick up 
the pieces and continue being the happy, 
strong mum that she was a couple of days ago.
Hugs, Sonia W.
 

Re: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Marilyn Kleidon]

We used them in Seattle, a nurse would come to the home and instruct and
supervise the parents in their use (so that the parents were confident)
under consultation with a paediatrician of course. That is all that i know
but will contact friends in Seattle re the product and the research.

marilyn
- Original Message - 
From: denise boscheinen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED


 HAS ANYONE INFORMATION ON PHOTOTHERAPRY BLANKETS THIS MIGHT SOLVE THE
 PROBLEM OF REMOVING BABIES FROM UNDER LIGHTS FOR BREAST FEEDING. DENISE B


 From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Abuse of power!! Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED
 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:33:57 +1100
 
   The phototherapy equipment is often on wheels - the baby can be given
   phototherapy but be in the same room as mum. In fact, in most places
the
   equipment is available for hire and mum can give at home.
   Good luck.
   Nikki Macfarlane
   Director, Childbirth International
   www.childbirthinternational.com
 
 
 I wish we had known all that Nikki.
 
 I know this sounds unbelieveable but it is all true. I don't know exact
 times.
 
 After a very tiring day, my sis finally decided to leave Jamies side at
 about 9:30pm when BIL took Aiden(other son) home. Sis was giving Jamie a
 feed before she went to bed. During the feed along came a nurse who told
 her
 to stop because a doctor wanted to speak with her. She said she
wouldn't
 stop feeding him but would talk to the doctor when she had finished.
 
 She went out of the nursery and to the room where her bed was set up. She
 wasn't admitted as a patient, but they provided her with a bed. Outside
her
 room were two men and a wheel chair and inside were the doctor, a midwife
 and the head of the nursing unit.
 
 The doc started asking questions about psychosis, without even telling
her
 who he was, and when she asked he said he was a psychiatrist. She grabbed
 the phone and rang my mum while he was telling her not to call anyone. By
 this stage it was past 10pm. He got on the phone to my mum saying that he
 was going to admit Sis to the psych ward as an involuntary and unwilling
 patient. My mum told him if he did he would end up there! LOL! My mum is
 good value! They told Sis that if she put up a fight they would sedate
her.
 It seemed like they had waited till everyone had left before they
 approached
 Sis.
 
 My mum arrived in 5 mins and then BIL arrived in 20mins. BIL tried to get
 some info from the doc as this had all happened completely out of the
blue.
 No warning, no sign of concern from the midwives and nurses in contact
with
 Sis except some of them didn't like her asking questions. Sis, BIL and
mum
 were given no answers. We are all so aware of the signs and symptoms of
PNP
 and PND and sis was definitley not showing any, just tired and stressed
 because of her very long day.
 
 They kept asking her questions, the doc and head nurse, till 1:30am and
 proceeded to tell her that she seemed flighty I would too at
1:30am,
 with a son in hospital being told I couldn't feed him on demand because
he
 might die of brain damage!
 
 Anywayto cut a very long story short, a midwife stayed outside Sis
 room,
 BIL slept on the floor, my mum stayed till 2:30am and Sis tried to sleep.
 
 I got a call at 7:00am, completely oblivious to the goings on of last
night
 and raced down there.
 
 A different psychiatrist came along and met with Sis, BIL, my dad and I.
He
 said he didn't understand what or why all this had happened. He asked Sis
 some questions and spoke to all of us and said he was sooo sorry, he
 thought
 it was some kind of beaurocratic thing!!! Like they couldn't figure out
how
 to book her into maternity??!!
 
 So today we spent the day in hospital and I watched my sister go from,
 yesterday, stressed and tired but doing a wonderful job mothering, to
 today,
 an emotional, sleep deprived wreck, who was now questioning herself as a
 mum! I don't know how this could've happened, it seems so sureal!
 
 The head nurse that was on this afternoon was so apologetic and couldn't
 believe what had happened either. She said that there had been things
 written in Sis files that were not true, like the Mental Health Emergency
 Team had come to speak to Sis and that they had called the psychiatrist,
 they never came. All the nurses today and midwives were saying to Sis
that
 they couldn't understand any of it either.
 
 This evening I rang an independent midwife and she came to visit Sis and
 just tried to talk with her and stuff, she was really lovely.
 
 The worst part of this, is not how or why this happened, but what effect
it
 has had on Sis. I am really feeling for her, it has started the ball
 rolling
 in her head and she doesn't see how she can stop her negative feelings
and
 thoughts about herself

Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Abby and Toby]

Thanks so much for everyones advice and thoughts. This is what has happened.

Baby was born 4.4kg. Ventouse(?), quite traumatic, cord cut immeadiately and
oxygen, vigirous rubbing and suction were used.

Went home at 2 days old, feeding very well.

Went in for 3 day check up, had lost 150grams from birth weight, got a 22 on
the forehead bilirubin test(? I don't know what this means), then they did a
blood test and it was 300. Mum took him home before results. Baby is feeding
very well, alert when awake and wakes for good feeds if asleep.

Hung out in the sun for 15mins, went back to a different hospital, had gone
down to 280, sent them home to come back next day.

Day 4 went back, still feeding well and alert, test showed had gone up to
380. Phytotherapy recommended but not allowed to feed on demand, must only
be breastfed every 4 hours even after arguments with pead and nurses. Mum is
exhausted but keeping a close guard in a chair in the nursery overnight, she
is expressing to keep up his feeds.

My sis has given up trying to get advice and info from the hospital, she is
sick of fighting with them and now just wants her boy home. She is letting
them do whatever they want so she can get home in a hurry.

It is amazing how different births and babies can be. Her first was smooth
sailing, 10 hour labour, natural birth, went home and no worries...and this
one has been a very traumatic 4 days from the moment she got to the
hospital.

Thanks again for all your advice.

Love Abby



- Original Message -
From: denise boscheinen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 4:17 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED


 what was the birth weight and how old is the baby the general rule is if
the
 sbr is 10% of the birth weight the baby may require phototherapy  however
if
 the baby is active and feeding there should be no problem. Kernicterus
 occurs when high levels of bilirubin ( uncongicated ) build up .this is
very
 rare these days and any baby found to have very high levels would be given
 an exchange transfusion befoe this could occur.


 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: ozmidwifery @ acegraphics . com . au
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED
 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:50:55 +1100
 
 
 Hi,
 
 Can anyone give me some info on what levels are high bilirubin levels in
 newborns?
 My sister's baby was tested and the hospital is saying he could get brain
 damage.
 His score was 300?? Not sure what that means.
 
 What are the dangers, are the tests necessary, is it normal in newbies,
 what is
 the best treatment, preferably natural and can the light treatment cause
 any
 problems?
 
 He is alert, eating well and has only lost 150g in 3 days since birth
 weight.
 
 Any answer asap would be greatly appreciated.
 
 Thanks
 Love Abby
 --
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 Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Nikki Macfarlane]

Abby,

the numbers can be confusing, especially when they use two different scales
which is what they have done here.

The 300, 280 and 380 are on one scale. The 22 is on another scale. To get
the same scale, multiply the 22 by 17, or divide the larger numbers by 17.

The 300 and 280 are not that unusual for a term healthy baby. The 380 is
quite high but still not panic stations if other indications such as
alertness and feeding are all normal. I am amazed they have said she cannot
feed on demand - this is absolutely the most important thing the baby needs
to shift the jaundice. Breastmilk will help the baby to frequently clear its
bowels - bilirubin is excreted in the faeces. If the baby does not feed it
will not poo, and the bilirubin will sit in the intesting for longer periods
and subsequently be reabsorbed, thus lengthening the period it has jaundice
for. Absurd approach.

I can understand the desire to put the baby under lights but the advice to
feed every 4 hours sucks - this baby needs as much breastmilk as mum can get
itno it. It will help excrete the bilirubin and will also prevent
dehydration and prevent the baby's blood sugar level from dropping. A low
blood sugar level will lead to a sleepy baby whoi then doesn't want to wake
for feeds and ends up in a vicious circle.

I see an enormous amount of routine jaundice treatment here for levels as
low as 12 (204). All babies are routinely tested so we frequently get to see
the consequences of a diagnosis of jaundice.

Remember that the levels naturally begin to drop from day 6 onwards. This
usually conincides with the treatment which of course everyone says
worked, but it may have been that the baby's levels were dropping anyway.

The phototherapy equipment is often on wheels - the baby can be given
phototherapy but be in the same room as mum. In fact, in most places the
equipment is available for hire and mum can give at home.

Good luck.

Nikki Macfarlane
Director, Childbirth International
www.childbirthinternational.com


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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Graham and Helen]

I too was surprised about limiting the breastfeeding to four hourly.  Is it
possible that they meant no less than four hourly ?  Normally you would be
going for third hourly if anything to push the bilirubin through and keep
the baby hydrated under lights as you say Nikki.

Helen
- Original Message - 
From: Nikki Macfarlane [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED


 Abby,

 the numbers can be confusing, especially when they use two different
scales
 which is what they have done here.

 The 300, 280 and 380 are on one scale. The 22 is on another scale. To get
 the same scale, multiply the 22 by 17, or divide the larger numbers by 17.

 The 300 and 280 are not that unusual for a term healthy baby. The 380 is
 quite high but still not panic stations if other indications such as
 alertness and feeding are all normal. I am amazed they have said she
cannot
 feed on demand - this is absolutely the most important thing the baby
needs
 to shift the jaundice. Breastmilk will help the baby to frequently clear
its
 bowels - bilirubin is excreted in the faeces. If the baby does not feed it
 will not poo, and the bilirubin will sit in the intesting for longer
periods
 and subsequently be reabsorbed, thus lengthening the period it has
jaundice
 for. Absurd approach.

 I can understand the desire to put the baby under lights but the advice to
 feed every 4 hours sucks - this baby needs as much breastmilk as mum can
get
 itno it. It will help excrete the bilirubin and will also prevent
 dehydration and prevent the baby's blood sugar level from dropping. A low
 blood sugar level will lead to a sleepy baby whoi then doesn't want to
wake
 for feeds and ends up in a vicious circle.

 I see an enormous amount of routine jaundice treatment here for levels as
 low as 12 (204). All babies are routinely tested so we frequently get to
see
 the consequences of a diagnosis of jaundice.

 Remember that the levels naturally begin to drop from day 6 onwards. This
 usually conincides with the treatment which of course everyone says
 worked, but it may have been that the baby's levels were dropping anyway.

 The phototherapy equipment is often on wheels - the baby can be given
 phototherapy but be in the same room as mum. In fact, in most places the
 equipment is available for hire and mum can give at home.

 Good luck.

 Nikki Macfarlane
 Director, Childbirth International
 www.childbirthinternational.com


 --
 This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
 Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.



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Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Mary Murphy]

The level of serum bilirubin is calculated agaoinst a graph that takes into
account maturity, weight, day since birth.  3oo is high but the rest of the
information is missing. I won't attempt to anwer all the other questions.
Why not try a google search for hyperbilirubinaemia or jaundice in newborns.
you will get much fore detailed info.  MM
 - Original Message - 
 Can anyone give me some info on what levels are high bilirubin levels in
newborns?
 My sister's baby was tested and the hospital is saying he could get brain
damage.
 His score was 300?? Not sure what that means.

 What are the dangers, are the tests necessary, is it normal in newbies,
what is
 the best treatment, preferably natural and can the light treatment cause
any
 problems?

 He is alert, eating well and has only lost 150g in 3 days since birth
weight.

 Any answer asap would be greatly appreciated.

 Thanks
 Love Abby
 --
 This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
 Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.




--
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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.

RE: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Cheryl LHK]

Abby,

Reading my Maggie Myles, she suggests that SBR levels above 250 on a full 
term baby may require phototherapy and levels above 340 are approximate 
indications for exchange transfusion in infants above 35 weeks gestation.

Personally, I have had three baby's all with joundice.  No 1 had a SBR of 
253 at 3 days of age, and had phototherapy for 24 hours and it reduced to 
238.  AFter that it was just demand breast-feeding and lots of time in the 
sunshine.  No 2 and 3 looked much the same at 3-4 days as my first son, but 
as I had left the hospital less than 24 hours after birth, I was quite 
content to observe, feed and put their cot in front of the window.  The last 
two were a lot less active babies, and they looked pretty 'bronzed for a 
good 2-3 weeks, but they fed well,  passed urine and faeces so we were 
happy.

Good luck to your sister and family

Cheryl


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery @ acegraphics . com . au [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:50:55 +1100
Hi,

Can anyone give me some info on what levels are high bilirubin levels in 
newborns?
My sister's baby was tested and the hospital is saying he could get brain 
damage.
His score was 300?? Not sure what that means.

What are the dangers, are the tests necessary, is it normal in newbies, 
what is
the best treatment, preferably natural and can the light treatment cause 
any
problems?

He is alert, eating well and has only lost 150g in 3 days since birth 
weight.

Any answer asap would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Love Abby
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Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Mary Murphy]

Hi, on further thought about recent cases, mostly if the baby is alert and
feeding, I use lots of strong natural light and observe.  I did have one
baby that we knew would have jaundice because of family history.  I took him
to the teaching hospital for children,PMH on day 4.  His SBR was 310.  We
were sent home without phototherapy and advice to keep him in the light and
regular feeding.  I went back for a followup SBR the next day.. same result
and same advice.  I must admit I was surprised, but it was 2 different paeds
and a top hospital for children.  The baby was fine.  Cheers, MM


 Reading my Maggie Myles, she suggests that SBR levels above 250 on a full
 term baby may require phototherapy and levels above 340 are approximate
 indications for exchange transfusion in infants above 35 weeks gestation.



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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Just to support your first response Mary, I think it really does depend on
how old the baby is
- Original Message - 
From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED


 Hi, on further thought about recent cases, mostly if the baby is alert and
 feeding, I use lots of strong natural light and observe.  I did have one
 baby that we knew would have jaundice because of family history.  I took
him
 to the teaching hospital for children,PMH on day 4.  His SBR was 310.  We
 were sent home without phototherapy and advice to keep him in the light
and
 regular feeding.  I went back for a followup SBR the next day.. same
result
 and same advice.  I must admit I was surprised, but it was 2 different
paeds
 and a top hospital for children.  The baby was fine.  Cheers, MM


  Reading my Maggie Myles, she suggests that SBR levels above 250 on a
full
  term baby may require phototherapy and levels above 340 are approximate
  indications for exchange transfusion in infants above 35 weeks
gestation.



 --
 This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
 Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.



--
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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.

RE: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[denise boscheinen]

what was the birth weight and how old is the baby the general rule is if the 
sbr is 10% of the birth weight the baby may require phototherapy  however if 
the baby is active and feeding there should be no problem. Kernicterus 
occurs when high levels of bilirubin ( uncongicated ) build up .this is very 
rare these days and any baby found to have very high levels would be given 
an exchange transfusion befoe this could occur.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ozmidwifery @ acegraphics . com . au [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:50:55 +1100
Hi,

Can anyone give me some info on what levels are high bilirubin levels in 
newborns?
My sister's baby was tested and the hospital is saying he could get brain 
damage.
His score was 300?? Not sure what that means.

What are the dangers, are the tests necessary, is it normal in newbies, 
what is
the best treatment, preferably natural and can the light treatment cause 
any
problems?

He is alert, eating well and has only lost 150g in 3 days since birth 
weight.

Any answer asap would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Love Abby
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Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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[ozmidwifery] URGENT INFO NEEDED

[abby_toby]

Hi,

Can anyone give me some info on what levels are high bilirubin levels in newborns? 
My sister's baby was tested and the hospital is saying he could get brain damage. 
His score was 300?? Not sure what that means.

What are the dangers, are the tests necessary, is it normal in newbies, what is 
the best treatment, preferably natural and can the light treatment cause any 
problems?

He is alert, eating well and has only lost 150g in 3 days since birth weight.

Any answer asap would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Love Abby
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