RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
Hi Team and Hi Tina The American Food Drug Administration issued warnings about ultrasound over nearly 12 years ago. They were extremely concerned about the affect on the fetus, especially the middle ear and the ovum laid down in the female fetus in the last trimester. They said we would probably not see the subtle effects until one or two generations later. Leanne can you refer me to the article, so I can place it into Hot Topics on my website. Thanks Robyn www.melbmidwifery.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of leanne wynne Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound Hi Tina, The article was in Popular Science Vol. 260 No.3. It was just a short news story describing the research of Mostafa Fatemi of the Mayo clinic in Minnesota. It said in part: Fatemi wondered why ... fetuses always seem to move and stretch while their (ultrasound) picture is taken. He found out by placing a tiny hydrophone inside a woman's uterus during the procedure. The device registered up to nearly 100 decibels - as loud as a subway train. While we can't hear it, a fetus can, says Fatemi, becuase a 'fetus's ears are filled with fluid, which is a better conductor of ultrasound waves than air.' There's currently no evedence showing that such noise is harmful, but Fatemi says clinicians may want to aim their ultrsound proves more carefully... If I can find the time I will see if I can find some more information about Fatemi's research on the web. Leanne. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:00:16 EDT In a message dated 11/09/02 9:21:51 AM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear All, I just wanted to add a note to your comment about the effect of ultrasounds on a baby's hearing. Recently my husband pointed-out to me an article about ultrasound that he came across in a Science journal. (he is a physics teacher) The article was speaking about some research designed to discover why babies move so much during an ultrasound scan. They found that to the baby the ultrasound waves are the volume of a locomotive train!! Is it any wonder babies try to get away from it? I will ask him for the name of the journal so I can post it on Ozmidwifery for everyone. Leanne, Midwife, Mildura Aboriginal Health Service. Yes Please LeanneI for one would be very interested!! Yours in midwifery Tina Pettigrew. _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
Hi Robyn, The original article came from Popular Science Vol.260 No. 3. But if you go to the Mayo Clinic web-site www.mayo.edu/ultrasound/news you will find a much more comprehensive article describing the research. It makes very interesting reading. All the best, Leanne. From: Robyn Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:59:43 +1000 Hi Team and Hi Tina The American Food Drug Administration issued warnings about ultrasound over nearly 12 years ago. They were extremely concerned about the affect on the fetus, especially the middle ear and the ovum laid down in the female fetus in the last trimester. They said we would probably not see the subtle effects until one or two generations later. Leanne can you refer me to the article, so I can place it into Hot Topics on my website. Thanks Robyn www.melbmidwifery.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of leanne wynne Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound Hi Tina, The article was in Popular Science Vol. 260 No.3. It was just a short news story describing the research of Mostafa Fatemi of the Mayo clinic in Minnesota. It said in part: Fatemi wondered why ... fetuses always seem to move and stretch while their (ultrasound) picture is taken. He found out by placing a tiny hydrophone inside a woman's uterus during the procedure. The device registered up to nearly 100 decibels - as loud as a subway train. While we can't hear it, a fetus can, says Fatemi, becuase a 'fetus's ears are filled with fluid, which is a better conductor of ultrasound waves than air.' There's currently no evedence showing that such noise is harmful, but Fatemi says clinicians may want to aim their ultrsound proves more carefully... If I can find the time I will see if I can find some more information about Fatemi's research on the web. Leanne. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:00:16 EDT In a message dated 11/09/02 9:21:51 AM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear All, I just wanted to add a note to your comment about the effect of ultrasounds on a baby's hearing. Recently my husband pointed-out to me an article about ultrasound that he came across in a Science journal. (he is a physics teacher) The article was speaking about some research designed to discover why babies move so much during an ultrasound scan. They found that to the baby the ultrasound waves are the volume of a locomotive train!! Is it any wonder babies try to get away from it? I will ask him for the name of the journal so I can post it on Ozmidwifery for everyone. Leanne, Midwife, Mildura Aboriginal Health Service. Yes Please LeanneI for one would be very interested!! Yours in midwifery Tina Pettigrew. _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
In a message dated 11/09/02 9:21:51 AM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear All, I just wanted to add a note to your comment about the effect of ultrasounds on a baby's hearing. Recently my husband pointed-out to me an article about ultrasound that he came across in a Science journal. (he is a physics teacher) The article was speaking about some research designed to discover why babies move so much during an ultrasound scan. They found that to the baby the ultrasound waves are the volume of a locomotive train!! Is it any wonder babies try to get away from it? I will ask him for the name of the journal so I can post it on Ozmidwifery for everyone. Leanne, Midwife, Mildura Aboriginal Health Service. Yes Please LeanneI for one would be very interested!! Yours in midwifery Tina Pettigrew.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
Thank you deeply, Debbie. My eyes are opened further, along with my mind. Aviva The point is that - and I'm sure no-one would doubt it - that scans have their place. In retrospect, I wish that I had had more scans with my second child - he may then have had the chance that my third did. But I too didn't see the point, after all I had already had one healthy child, and I had concerns over their safety. I am not saying that scans are the way to go far from it - just that scans do have a role - just as (dare I say it) do caesarean sections. :-)Debbie SlaterPerth, WA
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
Dear All, I just wanted to add a note to your comment about the effect of ultrasounds on a baby's hearing. Recently my husband pointed-out to me an article about ultrasound that he came across in a Science journal. (he is a physics teacher) The article was speaking about some research designed to discover why babies move so much during an ultrasound scan. They found that to the baby the ultrasound waves are the volume of a locomotive train!! Is it any wonder babies try to get away from it? I will ask him for the name of the journal so I can post it on Ozmidwifery for everyone. Leanne, Midwife, Mildura Aboriginal Health Service. From: James Stephanie Fairbairn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:19:24 +0930 Has anyone had a pregnant woman complain of heat or pain at the site of a rountine ultrasound? My friend was always very uncomfortable with U/S and said that the baby would always move as if to get away. This happened in both her pregnancies - although she never refused the treament as she felt it was 'part of the process of being pregnant that you couldn't refuse' (she isn't a typically rebellious individual!!!) I have heard discussions that postulate that U/S is responsible for among others::: more left handers! - autism - cord tangling around limbs and neck (in the case that the baby moves abnormally to get away from the source of discomfort) and auditory problems (to do with the stage of hearing development and strength of wave used at the foetal age) - Anyone else heard this theory? Steph.Adelaide. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound In a message dated 9/09/02 10:59:39 AM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sounds like an interesting read. What does AIMS stand for? Any idea when it was published (roughly)? Thanks, Jen Hi Jen...AIMS stands for the Association for the Improvments In Maternity Services ... Ultrasound Unsound was published in 1993...as a special edition of the AIMS Journal...I have a copy on my bookshelf...I'll bring it to UNi on Wednesday Doris Haire has also written extensively on the dangers of routine ultrasonography...published in AIMS Journal Vol 1..Number 4-5The Ultrasound Dilemmaand Joan Donely...the wise woman in NZ...has also written extensively warning women of the unknowns of ultrasound. Cheers Tina _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
At Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:12:45 +1000, leanne wynne ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: They found that to the baby the ultrasound waves are the volume of a locomotive train!! Is it any wonder babies try to get away from it? I will ask him for the name of the journal so I can post it on Ozmidwifery for everyone. Leanne, Midwife, Mildura Aboriginal Health Service. A few months ago I her a psychologist on the radio ( as I was driving so I didn't get the whole lot) talking about using ultrasound on babies in utero as a means of demonstrating/proving that babies 'interact' with the outside world. ( as if parents couldn't tell him so). No diagnostic use: he talked about 'playing' with the baby, as I recall seeing how far it would run. Did anyone else hear this interview ? Got details of it? I'd like to follow it up. Margie Ps I also heard more recently that it is now 'proven' that young babies sounds are pre-verbal communication - intentional - because brainscans showing communication brain activity tell us so! Looking for a free email account? Get one now at http://www.freemail.com.au/
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
AIMS stands for Association for Improvement of Maternity Services. Ultrasound unsound was published in 1993. Leigh - Original Message - From: Jen Semple [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound Sounds like an interesting read. What does AIMS stand for? Any idea when it was published (roughly)? Thanks, Jen --- Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We read the AIMS booklet on ultrasound, It is called ultrasound, unsound MM __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
In a message dated 9/09/02 10:59:39 AM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sounds like an interesting read. What does AIMS stand for? Any idea when it was published (roughly)? Thanks, Jen Hi Jen...AIMS stands for the Association for the Improvments In Maternity Services ... Ultrasound Unsound was published in 1993...as a special edition of the AIMS Journal...I have a copy on my bookshelf...I'll bring it to UNi on Wednesday Doris Haire has also written extensively on the dangers of routine ultrasonography...published in AIMS Journal Vol 1..Number 4-5"The Ultrasound Dilemma"and Joan Donely...the wise woman in NZ...has also written extensively warning women of the "unknowns of ultrasound". Cheers Tina
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
Has anyone had a pregnant woman complain of heat or pain at the site of a rountine ultrasound? My friend was always very uncomfortable with U/S and said that the baby would always move as if to get away. This happened in both her pregnancies - although she never refused the treament as she felt it was 'part of the process of being pregnant that you couldn't refuse' (she isn't a typically rebellious individual!!!) I have heard discussions that postulate that U/S is responsible for among others::: more left handers! - autism - cord tangling around limbs and neck (in the case that the baby moves abnormally to get away from the source of discomfort) and auditory problems (to do with the stage of hearing development and strength of wave used at the foetal age) - Anyone else heard this theory? Steph.Adelaide. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound In a message dated 9/09/02 10:59:39 AM AUS Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sounds like an interesting read. What does AIMS standfor? Any idea when it was published (roughly)?Thanks, JenHi Jen...AIMS stands for the Association for the Improvments In Maternity Services ...Ultrasound Unsound was published in 1993...as a special edition of the AIMS Journal...I have a copy on my bookshelf...I'll bring it to UNi on Wednesday Doris Haire has also written extensively on the dangers of routine ultrasonography...published in AIMS Journal Vol 1..Number 4-5"The Ultrasound Dilemma"and Joan Donely...the wise woman in NZ...has also written extensively warning women of the "unknowns of ultrasound".Cheers Tina
[ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
I was thinking about asking about vaginal US last week as I listened to a girlfriend tell me about her personal need to have two done to prove she was pregnant. The first was done too early and they only saw a sack. It is becoming the norm, her girlfriend has had numerous scans done as well due to having miscarried once. Women are more and more being taught how unreliable their bodies are at having a baby. We were under more pressure from well intentioned friends for not having an ultrasound at all with nunmber three than I could have imagined. We read the AIMS booklet on ultrasound, forget the title, great information and easy enough for lay people to understand. Thoroughly recommend it. Until birth is returned to women, their families and midwives I see this type of care only increasing. Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
I refused ultrasounds with both pregnancies. I wanted proof that they could not possibly do my babies any harm. No proof, no u/s. And yes, I've also had miscarriages, been exposed to chemicals in the Vietnam war. I wanted to take full responsibility for whatever happened. Aviva - Original Message - From: Larry Megan To: ozmidwifery Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 4:26 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound I was thinking about asking about vaginal US last week as I listened to agirlfriend tell me about her personal need to have two done to prove she waspregnant.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
We read the AIMS booklet on ultrasound, It is called ultrasound, unsound MM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
In a message dated 9/8/02 8:01:19 PM W. Australia Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I refused ultrasounds with both pregnancies. I wanted proof that they could not possibly do my babies any harm. As with all things, there are two sides to every coin. Without ultrasound, my youngest child would - quite simply - not be here. With my second child I had U/S at 16 weeks (in the UK) and that was it. At 30 weeks I went into labour and, although my baby was born alive, he died aged 40 minutes. He was hydropic with fluid in both chest cavities. Despite a post mortum and a battery of tests on him and me, no cause was found. When pregnant again I was scanned regularly, and at 28 weeks gestation, my son was also found to be hydropic - again with pleural effusions. In this case, my son had chest drains inserted in utero, and was born at 34 weeks. His chest drains were removed immediately at birth, spent 12 days in special care, but never had any problems thereafter. He is now nearly 8. The point is that - and I'm sure no-one would doubt it - that scans have their place. In retrospect, I wish that I had had more scans with my second child - he may then have had the chance that my third did. But I too didn't see the point, after all I had already had one healthy child, and I had concerns over their safety. I am not saying that scans are the way to go far from it - just that scans do have a role - just as (dare I say it) do caesarean sections. :-) Debbie Slater Perth, WA
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound
Dear Larissa: I think this sort of extra medical care exists in all parts of the medical industry they (whoever they may be doctors, pr people advertisers, martketeers) have created a population of worried well who just want to be sure nothing is wrong at any stage of our lives. Partly I think this is because we are largely a well population mainly beseiged now by diseases of laziness and glutony (myself included) unwilling to take personal responsibility for our own health care. For medical practitioners of all types providing care to a well population is an income challenge hence the promotion of wellness technologies: the shole body CAT scan to detect any abnormality before it manifests, even perhaps dental cleaning ( I personally like getting my teeth cleaned and go eagerly for my twice yearly clean when I have a dental plan that covers it). So, I don't think it is too amazing that this attitude to health care flows onto pregnancy care even well pregnancy care. I think we need a whole change of attitude to our health and probably some good PR and marketing. EEK! marilyn - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 11:56 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound I was thinking about asking about vaginal US last week as I listened to a girlfriend tell me about her personal need to have two done to prove she was pregnant. The first was done too early and they only saw a sack. It is becoming the norm, her girlfriend has had numerous scans done as well due to having miscarried once. Women are more and more being taught how unreliable their bodies are at having a baby. We were under more pressure from well intentioned friends for not having an ultrasound at all with nunmber three than I could have imagined. We read the AIMS booklet on ultrasound, forget the title, great information and easy enough for lay people to understand. Thoroughly recommend it. Until birth is returned to women, their families and midwives I see this type of care only increasing. Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
