Re: ANF & MIDWIVES

[Katrina Vincent]

Well said Andrea.  By the way, all the job reps in my institution are 
midwives too.
Katrina.

>From: Ian & Andrea Quanchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Jan Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Oz Midwifery 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: ANF & MIDWIVES
>Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 22:34:39 +1000
>
>Jan,
>I don't have the energy to argue with you on this one.
>
>I'm not the thoughtless sheep that you seem to infer I am. I joined the 
>union
>because I wanted to. I quite happily take each pay rise they have 
>negotiated
>on my behalf and was happy that I didn't have to do it on my own. Each time
>ANF vic branch negotiates an agreement the seem to ask for and get little
>things that get me financial recognition for the years of expertise and
>education I have accumulated. I've never expected them to raise the
>professional profile of midwives as I see them as an industrial union.
>I also became and still am an ANF job  rep because I wanted to have a say 
>and
>to make sure that midwifery is not over run by nursing in the organisation
>where I work and I like to think I have been successful at this. (In fact 
>if
>you ask them alot of the nurses think its the other way around). I go to 
>the
>annual delegates conference where job reps get to tell the ANF what it is
>that they ant them to tackle over the next twelve months and I am free to 
>put
>forward any resolution I want and to have a say when I think midwifery is
>being overlooked. If more midwives became job reps it would help not the
>other way around.
>I am a member of the ACMI because I value their role as a professional
>organisation and yes I regularly ask my colleagues to consider joining. The
>answer I always get is that they have considered the insurance to be the 
>main
>attraction of the ANF over the ACMI and they are not prepared to belong to
>both. I believe that if it wasn't for the insurance they wouldn't belong to
>the ANF either as I can guarantee you that members meeting within the
>organisation are poorly attended. I agree with you that we need them to all
>want to become ACMI members but the reality is that they don't. Most of 
>them
>have no ambition to ever work outside the square box and the see caseload 
>as
>this.
>Having this conversation  on this list is useless as the people on the list
>are the motivated minority who are already trying to make a difference in
>their own way.
>I believe I need to use my energy to fight the battles that can make a
>difference to my little world here as at the moment that is all I can 
>manage.
>But as those who know me will tell you don't ever try and tell me what I
>should and shouldn't do because it doesn't suit your needs.
>
>Andrea Quanchi
>
>Jan Robinson wrote:
>
> > Dear Andrea
> >
> > It is time all professionals that call themselves midwives joined
> > their College and quit their association with nursing unions. A trade
> > union image is not condusive to having midwives publically recognised
> > as professionals in their own right. Unless the ANF is prepared to
> > change their name and become the industrial arm for Nurses and
> > Midwives (i.e. the ANMF )then quit while you are ahead.
> >
> > Disputes occuring within workplaces can surely be solved by
> > collective industrial bargaining. When I read all the letters on this
> > list there are obviously enough midwives in each maternity hospital
> > to form a collective and work towards more midwifery choices for
> > their patients with an appropriate on-call and flexi-time structure
> > to guarantee being able to follow the women through. You don't need a
> > union to do that for you, you just need your patients to DEMAND their
> > own midwife to follow them through and then guarantee to work with
> > them! Take them along to your meetings with the Area Health Authority
> > Maternity Advisory Committees, or get representation on the committee
> > yourselves.
> >
> > The College was set up to raise the profile of midwifery in this
> > country and it will not be able to achieve this unless all those
> > midwives that work in hospitals join up and join the fight for
> > professional recognition through legislative change.
> >
> > The College does have lawyers who can provide legal advice when
> > warrented. It's up to us to increase the College membership and
> > fast-track the pathway to professional recognition for midwives
> > through effective discussion within your local sub-branch and taking
> > your concerns to the National Executive via your Branch
> > representative. That is the way forw

Re: ANF & MIDWIVES

[Cheryl LHK]

I think that Andrea really got it right here!

Being a member of ANF(for insurance reasons - yes!) and ACMI, I am one of 
very few midwives that I know that are within both units of members.  
Another very simple reason is that working in a rural hospital, I'm both a 
registered nurse and a midwife throughout any given shift and need to be 
professional and competent in both areas.  If I lived in the city I might 
choose to work only as a midwife, but in the country that luxury isn't 
always available, and more to the point, I really enjoy nursing, being an RN 
for close to 7 yrs before I studied mid.

The information,journals etc give me info from all angles.

A possible recruiting method that the ACMI might consider is to make 
membership a real bonus for students of midwifery.  They may already do this 
(I know that the financial cost is less when a student member) but having 
finished my mid 3 years ago, in the whole two years at study, we were given 
an application form and "if you are interested, fill it in" two minute chat.

Get vibrant, entertaining midwives who are members to attend first year mid 
classes, give a whole hour to the issue, bring along newsletters, journal 
issues, explain the professional and personal advantages to belonging to 
such a group - get them enthused and joined up! (If you already do this, my 
sincerest apologies, I didn't see this in evidence when I was studying, a 
personal viewpoint only).

Cheryl


>From: Ian & Andrea Quanchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Jan Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Oz Midwifery 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: ANF & MIDWIVES
>Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 22:34:39 +1000
>
>Jan,
>I don't have the energy to argue with you on this one.
>
>I'm not the thoughtless sheep that you seem to infer I am. I joined the 
>union
>because I wanted to. I quite happily take each pay rise they have 
>negotiated
>on my behalf and was happy that I didn't have to do it on my own. Each time
>ANF vic branch negotiates an agreement the seem to ask for and get little
>things that get me financial recognition for the years of expertise and
>education I have accumulated. I've never expected them to raise the
>professional profile of midwives as I see them as an industrial union.
>I also became and still am an ANF job  rep because I wanted to have a say 
>and
>to make sure that midwifery is not over run by nursing in the organisation
>where I work and I like to think I have been successful at this. (In fact 
>if
>you ask them alot of the nurses think its the other way around). I go to 
>the
>annual delegates conference where job reps get to tell the ANF what it is
>that they ant them to tackle over the next twelve months and I am free to 
>put
>forward any resolution I want and to have a say when I think midwifery is
>being overlooked. If more midwives became job reps it would help not the
>other way around.
>I am a member of the ACMI because I value their role as a professional
>organisation and yes I regularly ask my colleagues to consider joining. The
>answer I always get is that they have considered the insurance to be the 
>main
>attraction of the ANF over the ACMI and they are not prepared to belong to
>both. I believe that if it wasn't for the insurance they wouldn't belong to
>the ANF either as I can guarantee you that members meeting within the
>organisation are poorly attended. I agree with you that we need them to all
>want to become ACMI members but the reality is that they don't. Most of 
>them
>have no ambition to ever work outside the square box and the see caseload 
>as
>this.
>Having this conversation  on this list is useless as the people on the list
>are the motivated minority who are already trying to make a difference in
>their own way.
>I believe I need to use my energy to fight the battles that can make a
>difference to my little world here as at the moment that is all I can 
>manage.
>But as those who know me will tell you don't ever try and tell me what I
>should and shouldn't do because it doesn't suit your needs.
>
>Andrea Quanchi
>
>Jan Robinson wrote:
>
> > Dear Andrea
> >
> > It is time all professionals that call themselves midwives joined
> > their College and quit their association with nursing unions. A trade
> > union image is not condusive to having midwives publically recognised
> > as professionals in their own right. Unless the ANF is prepared to
> > change their name and become the industrial arm for Nurses and
> > Midwives (i.e. the ANMF )then quit while you are ahead.
> >
> > Disputes occuring within workplaces can surely be solved by
> > collective industrial bargaining. When I read all the let

RE: ANF & Midwives

[elizabeth mccall]

Jan
While I am in full agreement that midwives need to 
support their professional organisation we need to realise that right now there 
are only approximately 1,000 midwives who are members of the NSWMA while there 
approximately 46,000 members of the NSWNA many of whom are probably midwives! We 
need the clout and lobbying power of our industrial body which is rightly or 
wrongly at this point in time a nursing union. The literature suggests that for 
midwives to further their cause for autonomy and equitable, accessible women 
centred maternity care for ALL women we need to find common cause with any body 
having the clout to progress our goals. While the ACMI may in the future be able 
to provide the industrial clout at the moment we 
need all the help we can get. I fully support the aim of autonomous midwifery 
practice and I am working extremely hard to achieve that utilising as many 
lobbying bodies as possible. All midwives need to be proactive & reflective 
in understanding our history and the reasons for our own, and women's oppression 
in maternity care & women's health.Liz McCall

Re: ANF & MIDWIVES

[Ian & Andrea Quanchi]

Jan,
I don't have the energy to argue with you on this one.

I'm not the thoughtless sheep that you seem to infer I am. I joined the union
because I wanted to. I quite happily take each pay rise they have negotiated
on my behalf and was happy that I didn't have to do it on my own. Each time
ANF vic branch negotiates an agreement the seem to ask for and get little
things that get me financial recognition for the years of expertise and
education I have accumulated. I've never expected them to raise the
professional profile of midwives as I see them as an industrial union.
I also became and still am an ANF job  rep because I wanted to have a say and
to make sure that midwifery is not over run by nursing in the organisation
where I work and I like to think I have been successful at this. (In fact if
you ask them alot of the nurses think its the other way around). I go to the
annual delegates conference where job reps get to tell the ANF what it is
that they ant them to tackle over the next twelve months and I am free to put
forward any resolution I want and to have a say when I think midwifery is
being overlooked. If more midwives became job reps it would help not the
other way around.
I am a member of the ACMI because I value their role as a professional
organisation and yes I regularly ask my colleagues to consider joining. The
answer I always get is that they have considered the insurance to be the main
attraction of the ANF over the ACMI and they are not prepared to belong to
both. I believe that if it wasn't for the insurance they wouldn't belong to
the ANF either as I can guarantee you that members meeting within the
organisation are poorly attended. I agree with you that we need them to all
want to become ACMI members but the reality is that they don't. Most of them
have no ambition to ever work outside the square box and the see caseload as
this.
Having this conversation  on this list is useless as the people on the list
are the motivated minority who are already trying to make a difference in
their own way.
I believe I need to use my energy to fight the battles that can make a
difference to my little world here as at the moment that is all I can manage.
But as those who know me will tell you don't ever try and tell me what I
should and shouldn't do because it doesn't suit your needs.

Andrea Quanchi

Jan Robinson wrote:

> Dear Andrea
>
> It is time all professionals that call themselves midwives joined
> their College and quit their association with nursing unions. A trade
> union image is not condusive to having midwives publically recognised
> as professionals in their own right. Unless the ANF is prepared to
> change their name and become the industrial arm for Nurses and
> Midwives (i.e. the ANMF )then quit while you are ahead.
>
> Disputes occuring within workplaces can surely be solved by
> collective industrial bargaining. When I read all the letters on this
> list there are obviously enough midwives in each maternity hospital
> to form a collective and work towards more midwifery choices for
> their patients with an appropriate on-call and flexi-time structure
> to guarantee being able to follow the women through. You don't need a
> union to do that for you, you just need your patients to DEMAND their
> own midwife to follow them through and then guarantee to work with
> them! Take them along to your meetings with the Area Health Authority
> Maternity Advisory Committees, or get representation on the committee
> yourselves.
>
> The College was set up to raise the profile of midwifery in this
> country and it will not be able to achieve this unless all those
> midwives that work in hospitals join up and join the fight for
> professional recognition through legislative change.
>
> The College does have lawyers who can provide legal advice when
> warrented. It's up to us to increase the College membership and
> fast-track the pathway to professional recognition for midwives
> through effective discussion within your local sub-branch and taking
> your concerns to the National Executive via your Branch
> representative. That is the way forward for midwives.
>
> The College has already produced a set of competency standards, has a
> code of ethics, has membership of the ICM ... all the attributes
> necessary for professional advancement and public recognition of
> midwives.
> If you don't see yourself as practising as a professionals with your
> own case-load in the future then you will forever be stuck in the
> fragmented care, shift-work and a well paid job within NURSING.
>
> Encourage your Colleagues to join ACMI today. There should be around
> seven thousand people across the country that could swell the numbers
> and make a difference to midwifery.
>
> Jan Robinson
>
> --
> __
>   Jan Robinson  Phone/fax: 011+ 61+
> 2+ 9546 4350
>   Independent Midwife Practitioner  e-m

Re: ANF & MIDWIVES

[Greg & Barb Cook]

Jan,
A wee response- do you know how much it costs the unions to provide members
the industrial cover - award representation in courts, appeals, appearances
at various tribunals etc for members in a union? Its not cheap.
Do you consider union members as hairy chesty warfies or construction
workers carrying placards and chanting? Do you consider by splitting from
union/federation/ association will work for midwives? The strongest union of
all is the AMA!! Do you consider them to be of no value to the health
system?
Another small question are you a midwife?

Barb

- Original Message -
From: Jan Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Ian & Andrea Quanchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: ANF & MIDWIVES


> Dear Andrea
>
> It is time all professionals that call themselves midwives joined
> their College and quit their association with nursing unions. A trade
> union image is not condusive to having midwives publically recognised
> as professionals in their own right. Unless the ANF is prepared to
> change their name and become the industrial arm for Nurses and
> Midwives (i.e. the ANMF )then quit while you are ahead.
>
> Disputes occuring within workplaces can surely be solved by
> collective industrial bargaining. When I read all the letters on this
> list there are obviously enough midwives in each maternity hospital
> to form a collective and work towards more midwifery choices for
> their patients with an appropriate on-call and flexi-time structure
> to guarantee being able to follow the women through. You don't need a
> union to do that for you, you just need your patients to DEMAND their
> own midwife to follow them through and then guarantee to work with
> them! Take them along to your meetings with the Area Health Authority
> Maternity Advisory Committees, or get representation on the committee
> yourselves.
>
> The College was set up to raise the profile of midwifery in this
> country and it will not be able to achieve this unless all those
> midwives that work in hospitals join up and join the fight for
> professional recognition through legislative change.
>
> The College does have lawyers who can provide legal advice when
> warrented. It's up to us to increase the College membership and
> fast-track the pathway to professional recognition for midwives
> through effective discussion within your local sub-branch and taking
> your concerns to the National Executive via your Branch
> representative. That is the way forward for midwives.
>
> The College has already produced a set of competency standards, has a
> code of ethics, has membership of the ICM ... all the attributes
> necessary for professional advancement and public recognition of
> midwives.
> If you don't see yourself as practising as a professionals with your
> own case-load in the future then you will forever be stuck in the
> fragmented care, shift-work and a well paid job within NURSING.
>
> Encourage your Colleagues to join ACMI today. There should be around
> seven thousand people across the country that could swell the numbers
> and make a difference to midwifery.
>
> Jan Robinson
>
> --
> __
>   Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+
> 2+ 9546 4350
>   Independent Midwife Practitioner   e-mail:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   8 Robin Crescent   www:
> midwiferyeducation.com.au
>   South Hurstville  NSW  2221 National Coordinator, ASIM
> __
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

RE: ANF & MIDWIVES

[Christine & Tony Holliday]

To achieve collective industrial bargaining you need to be organised.
You're right that we don't need a union to change to caseload but you do
need a union to help with the practical employment issues such as payment.
To do it properly takes a lot of time and you need to then pay someone for
their time, I found the union very helpful when trying to arrange a salary
for caseload, and we would not have achieved this on our own, there are many
traps to fall into including how this agreement may affect future claims and
developments.  Please do not think that the government/employers will be
nice and recognise what a wonderful thing caseload is and agree to our
requests for payment, annual leave, sickness leave and cover for sickness
leave etc.  Believe me it doesn't work; I've worked where the unions are
weak.  If the women got what they demanded we would have had caseload and
government funded home births a long time ago?  If the Victorian ratio of
Midwives to labouring women is 1.5 to 1 what would this have been without
the union negotiating?  I don't think it would have been the union that
suggested reducing the staffing level; I would suggest that it would have
been an even lower level of staffing.  In addition, who has the time to do
this?

In instances where the workforce has been union free many have found the
need to collective bargaining and have found this unsuccessful until they
form or join a legally recognised union, the Dockers a few years ago that
trained in Dubai spring to mind as the last I heard they had still not been
paid all they had been promised.

Sorry if I sound as though I am raving, but it is not a perfect world and I
know unions are not all angels but neither are employers and we need the two
to reach a balance.  You only need look as far as the UK to see what happens
when the unions have their rights taken away.  It's a frightening thought to
be negotiating on your own.

Also remember that a union is it's members and if we push hard enough we can
achieve some change, use them for our benefit.  I agree with your thoughts
on getting the women's voices heard and getting on as many committees as
possible is always a good thing and we need to encourage more midwives to be
involved to share the workload.  This includes any ANF committees.  We need
as many midwives in the ACMI as possible too, but this needs to be a
professional organization not an industrial organization as in the UK as
this weakens its industrial and professional credibility.

Sorry for the rave but it is a great concern to me that we look after
ourselves.
Christine.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jan Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, 4 September 2001 7:09 PM
To: Ian & Andrea Quanchi
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ANF & MIDWIVES

Dear Andrea

It is time all professionals that call themselves midwives joined
their College and quit their association with nursing unions. A trade
union image is not condusive to having midwives publically recognised
as professionals in their own right. Unless the ANF is prepared to
change their name and become the industrial arm for Nurses and
Midwives (i.e. the ANMF )then quit while you are ahead.

Disputes occuring within workplaces can surely be solved by
collective industrial bargaining. When I read all the letters on this
list there are obviously enough midwives in each maternity hospital
to form a collective and work towards more midwifery choices for
their patients with an appropriate on-call and flexi-time structure
to guarantee being able to follow the women through. You don't need a
union to do that for you, you just need your patients to DEMAND their
own midwife to follow them through and then guarantee to work with
them! Take them along to your meetings with the Area Health Authority
Maternity Advisory Committees, or get representation on the committee
yourselves.

The College was set up to raise the profile of midwifery in this
country and it will not be able to achieve this unless all those
midwives that work in hospitals join up and join the fight for
professional recognition through legislative change.

The College does have lawyers who can provide legal advice when
warrented. It's up to us to increase the College membership and
fast-track the pathway to professional recognition for midwives
through effective discussion within your local sub-branch and taking
your concerns to the National Executive via your Branch
representative. That is the way forward for midwives.

The College has already produced a set of competency standards, has a
code of ethics, has membership of the ICM ... all the attributes
necessary for professional advancement and public recognition of
midwives.
If you don't see yourself as practising as a professionals with your
own case-load in the future then you will forever be stuck in the
fragmented care, shift-work and a well paid jo

Re: ANF & MIDWIVES

[Jan Robinson]

Dear Andrea

It is time all professionals that call themselves midwives joined 
their College and quit their association with nursing unions. A trade 
union image is not condusive to having midwives publically recognised 
as professionals in their own right. Unless the ANF is prepared to 
change their name and become the industrial arm for Nurses and 
Midwives (i.e. the ANMF )then quit while you are ahead.

Disputes occuring within workplaces can surely be solved by 
collective industrial bargaining. When I read all the letters on this 
list there are obviously enough midwives in each maternity hospital 
to form a collective and work towards more midwifery choices for 
their patients with an appropriate on-call and flexi-time structure 
to guarantee being able to follow the women through. You don't need a 
union to do that for you, you just need your patients to DEMAND their 
own midwife to follow them through and then guarantee to work with 
them! Take them along to your meetings with the Area Health Authority 
Maternity Advisory Committees, or get representation on the committee 
yourselves.

The College was set up to raise the profile of midwifery in this 
country and it will not be able to achieve this unless all those 
midwives that work in hospitals join up and join the fight for 
professional recognition through legislative change.

The College does have lawyers who can provide legal advice when 
warrented. It's up to us to increase the College membership and 
fast-track the pathway to professional recognition for midwives 
through effective discussion within your local sub-branch and taking 
your concerns to the National Executive via your Branch 
representative. That is the way forward for midwives.

The College has already produced a set of competency standards, has a 
code of ethics, has membership of the ICM ... all the attributes 
necessary for professional advancement and public recognition of 
midwives.
If you don't see yourself as practising as a professionals with your 
own case-load in the future then you will forever be stuck in the 
fragmented care, shift-work and a well paid job within NURSING.

Encourage your Colleagues to join ACMI today. There should be around 
seven thousand people across the country that could swell the numbers 
and make a difference to midwifery.

Jan Robinson

-- 
__
  Jan Robinson  Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 
2+ 9546 4350
  Independent Midwife Practitioner  e-mail: 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8 Robin Crescent  www: 
midwiferyeducation.com.au
  South Hurstville  NSW  2221   National Coordinator, ASIM
__
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: ANF & MIDWIVES

[Ian & Andrea Quanchi]

Relax Anne it is not a national issue and is a part of industrial negotiations
in the latest enterprise agreement in Victoria.
Whether we like it or not the majority, by a long way, of registered
midwives in Victoria are members of the ANF and as such give the ANF the
right to negotiate on their behalf. Now those of us who are members of
the ACMI might believe that they should ask the ACMI for an opinion on
things relating to midwifery but the reality is that they are under no
obligation to do this and until more midwives belong to the ACMI this is
not going to happen with any certainty.  Now I'll admit that the majority
are not really putting much thought into who is better equipped to look
after the interests of midwives but for whatever their reason this is the
way they are choosing to vote by their membership.
Despite all our beliefs we have to continue to live in the real world
and not think that things will be the way we would like them to be just
by wishing. This insurance issue is going to further widen the gap in Victoria
as many independent midwives have belonged to ANF for the insurance and
they may not choose to continue this although as in my own case until I
have an alternative insurance cover it is still all I have to cover the
work I dod do in a hospital.
Andrea Quanchi
Anne Clarke wrote:

Dear
All, What the hell
does the ANF in Victoria have to do with Midwifery and ratio to mother/midwife? Was
ACMI consulted? Nursing
does not have ANYTHING to do with Midwifery and when are we and the nursing
profession and their exponents going to realise this. I
am offended and angry that again, nurses and their associations etc are
dictating to Midwives on their profession.  I am sure they would not
be happy if the decision was reversed, would they? Is
this decision/endorsement for the mother/midwife ratio for Victoria alone
or does ANF have a say nationally? We
cannot let this happen.  How dare they What
can we do? I am well
and truely p*d off about this. Anne
ClarkeBrisbane

ANF & MIDWIVES

[Anne Clarke]

Dear All,
 
What the hell does the ANF in Victoria have to do 
with Midwifery and ratio to mother/midwife?
 
Was ACMI consulted?
 
Nursing does not have ANYTHING to do with Midwifery 
and when are we and the nursing profession and their exponents going to realise 
this.
 
I am offended and angry that again, nurses and 
their associations etc are dictating to Midwives on their profession.  I am 
sure they would not be happy if the decision was reversed, would 
they?
 
Is this decision/endorsement for the mother/midwife 
ratio for Victoria alone or does ANF have a say nationally?
 
We cannot let this happen.  How dare 
they
 
What can we do?
 
I am well and truely p*d off about 
this.
 
Anne Clarke
Brisbane