Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: language
Dear Carolyn,
Tried to open the site you sent me
for the article on language but only got a site trying to promote and sell
something. Not sure if I was doing something wrong or what. Really
want to reasd the article sp could you guide me to it again.
Thanks
Rowena
- Original Message -
From:
Heartlogic
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:52
PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: language
Hey Rowena and Veronica, you
two are amazing! So wonderful to see such courage and willingness to
learn, explore and stand up for women's psychological and emotional
space! I agree, it is daunting to post to the list. I always
wonder how what I say will be interpreted. Woman friendly language
is a challenge. For the more senior midwives from the old school (and
I'm one of them) it is a big deal to shift from saying 'deliver' and
'delivery' to "helping/assisting" and "birth", To change our language is a
paradigm and power shift as well as a shift in terminology and we all know
what creatures of habit we humans are! Doesn't it also show you
Veronica, how arrogant we humans can become when we don't think we need to
read and update ourselves on what's going on in the big wide world? The
fact that three out of the four said
what's that? about VBAC says
something. And thelaughing indicates their discomfortat not
knowing. The important thing in life is to be a continual learner, to
always know there is more to learn and each woman teaches us something
different, something new. Our colleagues do too, each one teaches us
something, even if it is how not to be :-)
It's interesting how people
dismiss the idea of language being important, but whole worlds of ideology,
philosphy and ethics are bound in words...
Some ideas on language, for
example...
Calling women 'girls'
diminishes women, think about the stereotype of what a 'girl' is, and you get
the idea.
Calling women 'ladies'
- ladies wear pearls and twinsets and sit with their legs together,
don't yell and are polite at all times. Ladies can't give birth. Birth
is wild and naked and raw, it is on the sexual continuum and is out of control
:-) not ladylike at all.( Wild gutsy ) Women give birth.
Saying "I had a delivery or I
had a birth or I had three babies last night etc" is power based
language...who has the power here? WHO gave birth??
I could go on... I have some
great references for you if you want, I wrote a paper on language and I can
email it to you, let me know your email address and I will send it.
Thank you both for
contributing and letting us know what you are learning/experiencing and being
willing to ride the waves of a changing system. We need
you.
warmly, Carolyn
Hastie
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Veronica
HerbertSent: Sunday, 15 September 2002 10:53 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE:
language
Dear Carol,
Thank you so much. What you say is so true. I
have a great passion for midwifery and I learn a lot from the discussions on
here. My lecturers at my Uni are always making sure we are using 'womanly
language' and we are always getting picked up on what we say (isn't that right Kerry!!!). But, when we go into
our clinical setting it is a different matter. The other day at
handover I said a woman had had a "VBAC" instead of "Trial of scar".
And3 of the4 midwives said "What do you mean?, what is that?"
and I tried to explain thattrial of scarwas disempowering to
women and that it was setting them up for failure. The 4th midwife who knew
what it meant said "It's one of those new words they learn out at Uni"and
they basically laughed at me. It does take alot of courage to stand up
and voice your opinion or even try to explain something when you are still
learning and don't have a big knowledge base.For me, I only did my
graduate year of nursing last year, I started Midwifery in February and I
will be finished (hopefully) somewhere around the end of October. I
have had 8 months of learning a whole new profession.
from Veronica Herbert
(Midwifery Student, University of Ballarat).
- Original Message -
From:
Carol Thorogood
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:33
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] RE: language
Dear allI know how important it is to use 'womanly
language' and how using terms such as deliveries and LUSCs to describe
women can be disempowering. But, please can I also suggest that when we
'correct' others' mistakes especially
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: language
Hi Rowena, can you please send
me your email address again and I'll send the articleto you. I am sending
it by attachment, it is not on a site. My email address is
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can't access your email
address from the list, warmly, Carolyn
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rowena
WoolnoughSent: Sunday, 22 September 2002 2:49 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE:
language
Dear Carolyn,
Tried to open the site you sent me
for the article on language but only got a site trying to promote and sell
something. Not sure if I was doing something wrong or what. Really
want to reasd the article sp could you guide me to it again.
Thanks
Rowena
- Original Message -
From:
Heartlogic
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:52
PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: language
Hey Rowena and Veronica,
you two are amazing! So wonderful to see such courage and willingness
to learn, explore and stand up for women's psychological and emotional
space! I agree, it is daunting to post to the list. I always
wonder how what I say will be interpreted. Woman friendly
language is a challenge. For the more senior midwives from the old
school (and I'm one of them) it is a big deal to shift from saying 'deliver'
and 'delivery' to "helping/assisting" and "birth", To change our language is
a paradigm and power shift as well as a shift in terminology and we all know
what creatures of habit we humans are! Doesn't it also show you
Veronica, how arrogant we humans can become when we don't think we need to
read and update ourselves on what's going on in the big wide world?
The fact that three out of the four said
what's that? about VBAC
says something. And thelaughing indicates their
discomfortat not knowing. The important thing in life is to be a
continual learner, to always know there is more to learn and each woman
teaches us something different, something new. Our colleagues do too,
each one teaches us something, even if it is how not to be
:-)
It's interesting how people
dismiss the idea of language being important, but whole worlds of ideology,
philosphy and ethics are bound in words...
Some ideas on language, for
example...
Calling women 'girls'
diminishes women, think about the stereotype of what a 'girl' is, and you
get the idea.
Calling women
'ladies' - ladies wear pearls and twinsets and sit with their
legs together, don't yell and are polite at all times. Ladies can't give
birth. Birth is wild and naked and raw, it is on the sexual continuum
and is out of control :-) not ladylike at all.( Wild gutsy
) Women give birth.
Saying "I had a delivery or
I had a birth or I had three babies last night etc" is power based
language...who has the power here? WHO gave birth??
I could go on... I have
some great references for you if you want, I wrote a paper on language and I
can email it to you, let me know your email address and I will send it.
Thank you both for
contributing and letting us know what you are learning/experiencing and
being willing to ride the waves of a changing system. We need
you.
warmly, Carolyn
Hastie
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Veronica
HerbertSent: Sunday, 15 September 2002 10:53 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE:
language
Dear Carol,
Thank you so much. What you say is so true.
I have a great passion for midwifery and I learn a lot from the
discussions on here. My lecturers at my Uni are always making sure we are
using 'womanly language' and we are always getting picked up on what we
say (isn't that right Kerry!!!). But,
when we go into our clinical setting it is a different matter. The
other day at handover I said a woman had had a "VBAC" instead of "Trial of
scar". And3 of the4 midwives said "What do you mean?,
what is that?" and I tried to explain thattrial of scarwas
disempowering to women and that it was setting them up for failure. The
4th midwife who knew what it meant said "It's one of those new words they
learn out at Uni"and they basically laughed at me. It does take alot
of courage to stand up and voice your opinion or even try to explain
something when you are still learning and don't have a big knowledge
base.For me, I only did my graduate year of nursing last year, I
started Midwifery in February and I will be finished (hopefully) somew
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: language
Dear List, What I read many years ago was that it was a pig castrator that did the c/section .He was successful because he knew the importace of sterilising instruments.(long before drs. knew this)Ann --- Jo Dean Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you would be amazed how many midwives do not know the tern vbac. Many still call it 'trail of scar'. The power of the word is truly astounding. We have many women who still believe that once a section always a cs, that was disproven in 1913. I read once that one of the first recorded cs was in 16 something and it was done by the farmer. His wife went on to have four more babies. I am not sure of the truth, but it was on a web site called the history of obstetrics. BUT it makes for an interesting point if it is true...vbac was safe 400 years ago, but not toady. Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Ann green [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: language Dear List, VBAC was a term used in the early 1980's .That is 22 years.So that is not that new unless the persons concerned where trained pre-1980!If someone has not done any updating since 1980 I am concerned as a consumer.Ann--- __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: language
Don't worry Veronica this just shows their ignorance but be proud of yourself because there are three more people who know what it means and they will think about it every time they choose to say TOS or will eventually start saying VBAC. Even though people make disparaging remarks or pull faces when you correct them keep at it that's what I do. For example every time I here someone use a term I don't agree with I just say the woman friendly one I prefer and nothing else. It doesn't hold up the converstaion but gets the point across just the same. Eventually most people change the words because they to want to but the old ones are so embedded it takes a long time to suppress them. Those 'midwives' who truly don't care will never change and if they take a dislike to you then its good you know who they are as you don't want to be learning what they have to teach anyway. Think of it as a warning system. Andrea Quanchi On Sunday, September 15, 2002, at 10:53 PM, Veronica Herbert wrote: Dear Carol, Thank you so much. What you say is so true. I have a great passion for midwifery and I learn a lot from the discussions on here. My lecturers at my Uni are always making sure we are using 'womanly language' and we are always getting picked up on what we say (isn't that right Kerry!!!). But, when we go into our clinical setting it is a different matter. The other day at handover I said a woman had had a "VBAC" instead of "Trial of scar". And 3 of the 4 midwives said "What do you mean?, what is that?" and I tried to explain that trial of scar was disempowering to women and that it was setting them up for failure. The 4th midwife who knew what it meant said "It's one of those new words they learn out at Uni"and they basically laughed at me. It does take alot of courage to stand up and voice your opinion or even try to explain something when you are still learning and don't have a big knowledge base. For me, I only did my graduate year of nursing last year, I started Midwifery in February and I will be finished (hopefully) somewhere around the end of October. I have had 8 months of learning a whole new profession. from Veronica Herbert (Midwifery Student, University of Ballarat). - Original Message - From: Carol Thorogood To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] RE: language Dear all I know how important it is to use 'womanly language' and how using terms such as deliveries and LUSCs to describe women can be disempowering. But, please can I also suggest that when we 'correct' others' mistakes especially if they are inadvertently made by midwifery students that we do it gently and don't disempower them! I am thrilled to bits when midwifery students take part in discussions 'cause it takes lots of courage to come on line and voice their opinions. So please for those who haven't yet had the opportunity to learn woman-friendly language allthe time can we demystify it for them in respectful ways? Perhaps a private e-mail saying why it's not a good idea to use the phrase conducting deliveries or whatever is a more constructive way to make the point rather than a public rebuke which probably inhibits other students from having a say in case they 'offend' someone. If the students don't speak then we can not learn from them or be moved by their passion for midwifery. Carol (who is always slipping up). Carol Thorogood Visiting Midwifery Scholar School of Nursing and Midwifery Flinders University, Adelaide, 5001 Telephone: 08 8201 3924 Fax: 08 8201 3410
