Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems
Thanks everyone for your help with the fertility issue. I received this thorough explanation from Rebecca and forwarded all your answers to my friend. She was very happy and relieved. She said it helps her a lot, that someone actually explaines what all these procedures are for. She says the doctor didn't even look at her or listen her at all. Now I now a bit more myself too. So, thank you. Päivi Hi Paivi, I am replying to you off the ozmid list, but please feel free to share this post. I have 20 years experience as a natural family planning (NFP) teacher, and would have to say that your friend is being offered "the usual" range of investigations, and they are quite reasonable options, especially in light of her history of an ectopic pregnancy (outside the womb, usually in the tube). Even if the tube has been saved, an ectopic can really wreak havoc on the reproductive organs, especially if the pregnancy was treated surgically. bloodsamples for ovulation; This is just a normal blood test that is mostly used to check her hormone levels are healthy at different times of her cycle. It can be used to indicate if she is ovulating (releasing eggs), which you could safely assume she is seeing as she was pregnant! take x-ray, where they spray the womb with some special color, which then shows in the x-rays. As Jo said, this is called a HSG and they use a special (blue!) dye to fill the cavity of the uterus.It should then flow up into and through the tubes and out into the pelvis if all is well. It will show if the size and shape of the uterus is healthy for pregnancy (maybe the last baby implanted in the tube because there is a problem in the uterus) and it will show if her tubes are healthy, free and clear (maybe the last baby didn't make it into the uterus because there is a problem in the tubes). They can sometimes push the dye through the tubes pretty hard, which can be a good thing as it can 'unblock' them and sort of 'clean them out' a bit, but of course it can't 'unblock' scar tissue. Many women report conceiving in the couple of months after a HSG and think it has a theraputic value, but there is no research to support this and it really is a diagnosic tool. It can be a very painful proceedure at the beginning (to dilate the cervix a little to allow the instruments through) but the rest of the proceedure is not usually painful but might can sometimes be a little uncomfortable. Sedation is usually used, and it is often done under a general anesthetic with other proceedures (see below!). Afterward, there can be a little crampy feeling, but usually there is not much at all. some kind of operation to see the scar from the previous unsuccesful pregnancy. This would be a laparoscopy (or a "lap"), where they put instruments through the abdomen to actually look directly at her uterus, tubes and ovaries. This is a visual inspection of her anatomy, and will reveal the extent of any scar tissue, adhesions and the like from the ectopic. This is done under anesthetic as a day proceedure. The 'big cut' from this proceedure is about 1-2cm, along with a couple of 'puncture marks' that are very small. I don't think they even stitch any of these any more... they usually don't even scar. Afterward the tummy can be a bit tender, and you can get a very nasty pain up under the left shoulder blade (they fill the belly full of gas to separate the organs and see them better, and if this gas is slow to be absorbed by the body a 'pocket' of gas will collect and irritate, and the pain is felt in the left shoulder. It can be very intense pain - I actually needed pethidine!) They would also scrape the womb and take some "samples" to see if her body is doing what it's supposed to. This is called a dilation currettage, or a DC. The dilation refers to the cervix, again this is a small dilation required to allow instruments to be passed into the uterus, and a currettage is a spoon-like instrument attached to suction that would actually 'scrape' away some of the surface lining of the uterus (which she would have shed at her next period). This is sent to patholgy for anaysis, and reveals all kinds of details about her hormone levels and reproductive health. There may be a little spotting for a couple of days following a DC, but again there is not usually very much at all. If they find problems the doctor suggested ivfnext. This is where I think we may suddnely jump over into "unreasonable" options! If the lap, DC, and HSG all indicate that she is well and healthy then it would be reasonable to investigate more natural, less invasive assistance to achieve another pregnancy - and certainly learning about her fertility and charting her cycles could help her. She could contact the Australian Council of
Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems
If her Dr is not communicating well I would really suggest she get a second opinion. There are fertility specialists out there who are genuinely caring and good Drs all at the same time. Graeme Hughes is wonderful, Devora Leiberman is also excellent. At 9:48 AM +0300 9/5/06, Päivi Laukkanen wrote: Thanks everyone for your help with the fertility issue. I received this thorough explanation from Rebecca and forwarded all your answers to my friend. She was very happy and relieved. She said it helps her a lot, that someone actually explaines what all these procedures are for. She says the doctor didn't even look at her or listen her at all. Now I now a bit more myself too. So, thank you. Päivi Hi Paivi, I am replying to you off the ozmid list, but please feel free to share this post. I have 20 years experience as a natural family planning (NFP) teacher, and would have to say that your friend is being offered the usual range of investigations, and they are quite reasonable options, especially in light of her history of an ectopic pregnancy (outside the womb, usually in the tube). Even if the tube has been saved, an ectopic can really wreak havoc on the reproductive organs, especially if the pregnancy was treated surgically. bloodsamples for ovulation; This is just a normal blood test that is mostly used to check her hormone levels are healthy at different times of her cycle. It can be used to indicate if she is ovulating (releasing eggs), which you could safely assume she is seeing as she was pregnant! take x-ray, where they spray the womb with some special color, which then shows in the x-rays. As Jo said, this is called a HSG and they use a special (blue!) dye to fill the cavity of the uterus. It should then flow up into and through the tubes and out into the pelvis if all is well. It will show if the size and shape of the uterus is healthy for pregnancy (maybe the last baby implanted in the tube because there is a problem in the uterus) and it will show if her tubes are healthy, free and clear (maybe the last baby didn't make it into the uterus because there is a problem in the tubes). They can sometimes push the dye through the tubes pretty hard, which can be a good thing as it can 'unblock' them and sort of 'clean them out' a bit, but of course it can't 'unblock' scar tissue. Many women report conceiving in the couple of months after a HSG and think it has a theraputic value, but there is no research to support this and it really is a diagnosic tool. It can be a very painful proceedure at the beginning (to dilate the cervix a little to allow the instrume! nts through) but the rest of the proceedure is not usually painful but might can sometimes be a little uncomfortable. Sedation is usually used, and it is often done under a general anesthetic with other proceedures (see below!). Afterward, there can be a little crampy feeling, but usually there is not much at all. some kind of operation to see the scar from the previous unsuccesful pregnancy. This would be a laparoscopy (or a lap), where they put instruments through the abdomen to actually look directly at her uterus, tubes and ovaries. This is a visual inspection of her anatomy, and will reveal the extent of any scar tissue, adhesions and the like from the ectopic. This is done under anesthetic as a day proceedure. The 'big cut' from this proceedure is about 1-2cm, along with a couple of 'puncture marks' that are very small. I don't think they even stitch any of these any more... they usually don't even scar. Afterward the tummy can be a bit tender, and you can get a very nasty pain up under the left shoulder blade (they fill the belly full of gas to separate the organs and see them better, and if this gas is slow to be absorbed by the body a 'pocket' of gas will collect and irritate, and the pain is felt in the left shoulder. It can be very intense pain - I actually needed pethidine!) They would also scrape the womb and take some samples to see if her body is doing what it's supposed to. This is called a dilation currettage, or a DC. The dilation refers to the cervix, again this is a small dilation required to allow instruments to be passed into the uterus, and a currettage is a spoon-like instrument attached to suction that would actually 'scrape' away some of the surface lining of the uterus (which she would have shed at her next period). This is sent to patholgy for anaysis, and reveals all kinds of details about her hormone levels and reproductive health. There may be a little spotting for a couple of days following a DC, but again there is not usually very much at all. If they find problems the doctor suggested ivf next. This is where I think we may suddnely jump over into unreasonable options! If the lap, DC, and HSG all indicate that she is well and healthy then it would be reasonable to investigate more natural, less invasive
RE: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems
Another vote of confidence in Devora Lieberman. She investigated our recurrent miscarriage issues and we found her excellent. Nicola Morley Doula NSW Central Coast -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:05 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems If her Dr is not communicating well I would really suggest she get a second opinion. There are fertility specialists out there who are genuinely caring and good Drs all at the same time. Graeme Hughes is wonderful, Devora Leiberman is also excellent. At 9:48 AM +0300 9/5/06, Päivi Laukkanen wrote: Thanks everyone for your help with the fertility issue. I received this thorough explanation from Rebecca and forwarded all your answers to my friend. She was very happy and relieved. She said it helps her a lot, that someone actually explaines what all these procedures are for. She says the doctor didn't even look at her or listen her at all. Now I now a bit more myself too. So, thank you. Päivi Hi Paivi, I am replying to you off the ozmid list, but please feel free to share this post. I have 20 years experience as a natural family planning (NFP) teacher, and would have to say that your friend is being offered the usual range of investigations, and they are quite reasonable options, especially in light of her history of an ectopic pregnancy (outside the womb, usually in the tube). Even if the tube has been saved, an ectopic can really wreak havoc on the reproductive organs, especially if the pregnancy was treated surgically. bloodsamples for ovulation; This is just a normal blood test that is mostly used to check her hormone levels are healthy at different times of her cycle. It can be used to indicate if she is ovulating (releasing eggs), which you could safely assume she is seeing as she was pregnant! take x-ray, where they spray the womb with some special color, which then shows in the x-rays. As Jo said, this is called a HSG and they use a special (blue!) dye to fill the cavity of the uterus. It should then flow up into and through the tubes and out into the pelvis if all is well. It will show if the size and shape of the uterus is healthy for pregnancy (maybe the last baby implanted in the tube because there is a problem in the uterus) and it will show if her tubes are healthy, free and clear (maybe the last baby didn't make it into the uterus because there is a problem in the tubes). They can sometimes push the dye through the tubes pretty hard, which can be a good thing as it can 'unblock' them and sort of 'clean them out' a bit, but of course it can't 'unblock' scar tissue. Many women report conceiving in the couple of months after a HSG and think it has a theraputic value, but there is no research to support this and it really is a diagnosic tool. It can be a very painful proceedure at the beginning (to dilate the cervix a little to allow the instrume! nts through) but the rest of the proceedure is not usually painful but might can sometimes be a little uncomfortable. Sedation is usually used, and it is often done under a general anesthetic with other proceedures (see below!). Afterward, there can be a little crampy feeling, but usually there is not much at all. some kind of operation to see the scar from the previous unsuccesful pregnancy. This would be a laparoscopy (or a lap), where they put instruments through the abdomen to actually look directly at her uterus, tubes and ovaries. This is a visual inspection of her anatomy, and will reveal the extent of any scar tissue, adhesions and the like from the ectopic. This is done under anesthetic as a day proceedure. The 'big cut' from this proceedure is about 1-2cm, along with a couple of 'puncture marks' that are very small. I don't think they even stitch any of these any more... they usually don't even scar. Afterward the tummy can be a bit tender, and you can get a very nasty pain up under the left shoulder blade (they fill the belly full of gas to separate the organs and see them better, and if this gas is slow to be absorbed by the body a 'pocket' of gas will collect and irritate, and the pain is felt in the left shoulder. It can be very intense pain - I actually needed pethidine!) They would also scrape the womb and take some samples to see if her body is doing what it's supposed to. This is called a dilation currettage, or a DC. The dilation refers to the cervix, again this is a small dilation required to allow instruments to be passed into the uterus, and a currettage is a spoon-like instrument attached to suction that would actually 'scrape' away some of the surface lining of the uterus (which she would have shed at her next period). This is sent to patholgy for anaysis, and reveals all kinds of details about her hormone levels and reproductive health. There may be a little spotting for a couple
Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems
Personally I prefer to start at the least invasive end of the scale. I'd suggest a good naturopath who specialises in fertility issues to start off, not surgery. Also, learning to chart her cycles can be really empowering and show up if there are any problems without laying a hand on her. The Billings people are all over Australia. : ) J - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:36 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems Hi everyone, A friend of mine has moved to Sydney and is having problems getting pregnant. A year ago she had an operation, because she had an unexpected pregnancy and the fetus was outside the womb. (Don't know how to say this in english). Now a doctor in Sydney has suggested her togive bloodsamples for ovulation, andtake x-ray, where they spray the womb with some special color, which then shows in the x-rays. The doctor also suggested some kind of operation to see the scar from the previous unsuccesfull pregnancy. They would also scrape the womb and take some "samples" to see if her body is doing what it's supposed to. If they find problems the doctor suggested ivf next. This all sounds like a lot of uncomfortable procedures. Just wanted to ask if you guys would have any input on this? Aren't there more gentle ways to go? This really is an area that I know nothing about. Päivi
Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems
I really like Dr Mark Bowman at Sydney IVF if she wants a second opinion (assuming she isn't already seeing him). I saw him three years ago and found him to be very sympathetic, and willing to look at my particular situation and advise what was best for me, which unfortunately doesn't always happen. Hope this helps. - Original Message From: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems Date: 08/05/2006 15:54 Hi everyone, nbsp; A friend of mine has moved to Sydney and is having problems getting pregnant. A year ago she had an operation, because she had an unexpected pregnancy and the fetus was outside the womb. (Don't know how to say this in english). Now a doctor in Sydney has suggested her tonbsp;give bloodsamples for ovulation, andnbsp;take x-ray, where they spray the womb with some special color, which then shows in the x-rays. The doctor also suggested some kind of operation to see the scar from the previous unsuccesfull pregnancy. They would also scrape the womb and take some samples to see if her body is doing what it's supposed to. If they find problems the doctor suggested ivf next. This all sounds like a lot of uncomfortable procedures. Just wanted to ask if you guys would have any input on this? Aren't there more gentle ways to go? This really is an area that I know nothing about. nbsp; Päivi nbsp; nbsp; Dodo - an Official Sponsor of the 2006 FORMULA 1 (tm) Foster's Australian Grand Prix -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems I agree. Why even look at IVF in the first place. Sort of like going to an Ob for a normal pregnancy! The Jocelyn Clinic in Paddington (Sydney) is run by Franchesca Naish (has a book called Natural Fertility) She has had some great success (even with IVF didasters) I have recently referred a friend there who is happy with their approach etc. Worth a look into The Jocelyn Centre for Natural Fertility Management Holistic Medicine 46 Grosvenor St, Woollahra ph: (02) 9369 2047 JC
Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems
Given she has had previous ectopic pregnancy and surgery to remove it I would STRONGLY advise that she at least make sure her tubes are clear before continuing to try naturally. The xray she has been offered is called a HSG and is used to test tubal patency (whether they are clear). You can have this done by ultrasound instead of xray (called a HiCoSy) but it involves a similar level of invasiveness and discomfort and is slightly less reliable - if it doesn't work you then have to get it done by HSG anyway. That said my own HiCoSy went perfectly. She should be aware that if her tubes are blocked either of these tests might be quite painful as they will be trying to pump dye or sugar water through her blocked tubes and it won't work. Personally I would also get some basic blood work and a semen analysis done and then decide whether to try naturally, do more tests or start treatment. I also think when it comes to fertility treatment it is always worth getting two opinions, you would be amazed how radically differently two fertility specialists will interpret the same test results (she doesn't have to redo her tests, just take results of anything she has already had done to the second Dr). I am not sure where she lives or who she is seeing but I can highly recommend Dr.Graeme Hughes. Of the three Drs we saw (and we also saw the other Dr mentioned in this thread) he did by far the most thorough assessment of our case and was pro-active without being IVF happy. Though we did end up using IVF in the end, at a different clinic with a different Dr for complex reasons that were no reflection on how impressed we were with Dr.Hughes, we really missed him when we changed. I hope it works out for your friend! Jo At 12:36 AM +0300 8/5/06, Päivi Laukkanen wrote: Hi everyone, A friend of mine has moved to Sydney and is having problems getting pregnant. A year ago she had an operation, because she had an unexpected pregnancy and the fetus was outside the womb. (Don't know how to say this in english). Now a doctor in Sydney has suggested her to give bloodsamples for ovulation, and take x-ray, where they spray the womb with some special color, which then shows in the x-rays. The doctor also suggested some kind of operation to see the scar from the previous unsuccesfull pregnancy. They would also scrape the womb and take some samples to see if her body is doing what it's supposed to. If they find problems the doctor suggested ivf next. This all sounds like a lot of uncomfortable procedures. Just wanted to ask if you guys would have any input on this? Aren't there more gentle ways to go? This really is an area that I know nothing about. Päivi -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] fertility problems
All the natural fertility treatment and charting in the world won't help blocked tubes... With her history she does need to get her tubes checked before she decides what to do next or she may end up wasting a lot of time and money. There are plenty of problems for which IVF or western fertility treatment in general should NOT be the first answer, but blocked tubes is not one of them. At 5:02 PM +1000 8/5/06, Justine Caines wrote: I agree. Why even look at IVF in the first place. Sort of like going to an Ob for a normal pregnancy! The Jocelyn Clinic in Paddington (Sydney) is run by Franchesca Naish (has a book called Natural Fertility) She has had some great success (even with IVF didasters) I have recently referred a friend there who is happy with their approach etc. Worth a look into The Jocelyn Centre for Natural Fertility Management Holistic Medicine 46 Grosvenor St, Woollahra ph: (02) 9369 2047 JC -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
