Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[meg]

Justine,
do you have some references for the midwifery led units that you refer to: 
To prove this look at the NZ rural units stats where midwives are providing 
a total care package without an obstetric unit and epidural service at the 
door.  These stats are stunning. It is very hard to find references for 
units that do not either coexist with tertiary facilities or have drs etc.

Megan

- Original Message - 
From: "Justine Caines" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "OzMid List" 
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?



Dear Kelly and all

Some additional information may assist you before you totally throw the NZ
model out the window.

For those of us who have lobbied at high levels, and been involved with
writing (and selling!) NMAP etc we needed to totally understand the good 
and

the bad of NZ.

Kelly your statements re intervention in NZ on a broad brush are not 
totally

true.

One of the major down falls of the stats (ie c/s) is the midwifery
interaction with obstetrics (ie large metro units that have the greatest
birth numbers).  To prove this look at the NZ rural units stats where
midwives are providing a total care package without an obstetric unit and
epidural service at the door.  These stats are stunning.

The funding arrangement is NZ is wonderful.  It gives parity to each
maternity health professional undertaking the same work.  It has been
legislated (s88). It also places the woman at the centre to choose her 
carer
and direct payment accordingly. The consumer focus re dispute resolution 
is
stunning. (Are you aware of this Kelly) Compare all of this with 
Australia.
Women are mostly treated as a piece of meat that will make them money. 
Last
week I heard a GP/Ob respond to 6 complaints with "Well I'm trying to run 
a

business".

Australian women have no real choice. Choice of a private Hosp and private
Ob is NOT choice. 1% access to midwifery is NOT CHOICE.

So one of the major solutions for them (NZ) and us is a total midwifery
scope of practice that does not place a woman within an obstetric 
dominated

setting unless there is clinical need.  This means home birth and stand
alone midwifery units, this means women labouring at home for as long as
possible (with their midwife).  You only need to look at Australian
co-located birth centres to get a similar picture.  Yes it is the best we
have but the 50% transfer rate is not representative of women's incapacity
or midwifery care (on the whole).  It is as a result of obstetric 
domination
and protocols that have no basis of evidence.  This is how we set 
midwifery

and women up to fail.  Why can't a woman with PROM labour in a BC?  What
difference is the transfer to a theatre from delivery suite to BC? This is 
a

total furphy.  So are many other's that exist.

The answer in Australia is firstly a funding stream.  Medicare for 
midwives

(without restriction).  Then women actually have a funded choice.  From
there many hurdles (no doubt). I agree women are the key, but it is nearly
impossible to get women to fight for or even explore something they have 
no
experience of.  So a funded choice would get the cultural change 
happening.

To do this we need midwives that are with women so I believe it is a
partnership of change.  Women will lead but midwives will be there right
beside them.

In solidarity

Justine


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. 


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Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

RE: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[Kirsten Lerstrøm]

Dear all
It's been quite a while since my last posting on this list. But never the
less, I enjoy reading the posts every day - and forwarding the most
insteresting posts to the communities here in Denmark. Cherished. 
I seem to get all the posts without any problems.
Thank you all for making this list worth while! And off course to you,
Andrea, for making it possible!
Please, please keep it on. In my view the issues presented are all relevant
and the discussions educational. Even though I'm a member of a society, -
Denmark-  you consider being superior to your own. We're nothing of the
kind, and still struggling hard to provide amble midwifery care!
Warm regards

Kirsten in Denmark
C/o Birth Committee Denmark


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Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[Judy Chapman]

We try so hard where I work to give woman centered care which is
great when all goes according to plan. But if it doesn't: why no
IV (she was drinking well), why no catheter (she was voiding
well), why no CTG (frequent intermittant asucultation showed no
abnormalities) etc etc. This was a transfer for obstructed
labour. Even with all these things they could not manage a
vaginal birth but the criticism is there.
 cheers,
Judy

--- Sue Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> I'm still getting only the odd email so apologies if I repeat
> what 
> anyone else has said.
> Justine really has her finger on the pulse in terms of
> consumer 
> apathy/lack of knowledge. One thing that really struck me as I
> was 
> completing my midwifery degree though and doing my clinical
> placements, 
> was how scared most midwives working in the hospitals are of
> being sued. 
> They practice defensive midwifery/obstetrics becuase they are
> constantly 
> covering their arses.
> 
> The same story of course with all the doctors. And that's how
> we are all 
> taught, as such. And as a student, when I dared to stand up
> for the 
> women to stay off the CTG or refuse a c/section just because
> it was 8pm 
> what did I get - abuse and fear thrown at me by 'senior'
> midwives - 'it 
> will be on your head if that baby dies' stuff. And I'm not
> kidding or 
> making this up. This is how we as students are taught - be it
> within a 
> BMid degree or as a post grad nurse... and we work besdie all
> the fear 
> based doctors...
> 
> Of course I discussed CTG vs intermittent auscultation, etc
> etc and 
> placed the documents on the desk the next morning, but if I
> hadn't had 
> my 20 odd years of normal birth prior to doing my placements
> then I 
> would be learning to behave and think like others who work in
> and for 
> the system. I was even challenged fully for delaying cord
> clamping ..by 
> a young doctor ..who of course was taught that cutting the
> cord 
> stimulates the baby to breathe... and when I presented a PP
> presentation 
> to other midwives in the unit about delayed cord clamping -
> one 
> response? None of us cut the cord early here anyway. Duh - I
> nearly fell 
> over. This is why there is so little change
> 
> And don't bite my head off either - I know there are also
> midwives 
> working in the system who are doing fantastic work to enact
> change - to 
> policies and attitudes, to empower the women ... bu in my
> mind, the 
> change will have to occur as a total change - like midwifery
> led units 
> with little doctor input, where midwives are happy to truly
> advocate for 
> the women and be prepared to continue to learn - like taking
> women past 
> 41 weeks or even 42 weeks if all is well, taking on care of
> normal birth 
> with all its facets  birthing happier and healthier babies
> with 
> mothers intact about their birth process and should I say it
> .. maybe 
> even empowered as mothers and parents.
> 
> Sue
> 
> 
> 
> >Nah, not throwing it out the window at all, I see it as
> having great
> >potential and a great opportunity to learn and develop for
> Australia. It's
> >great for everyone to know what you've just said Justine, as
> no-one really
> >knows anything about what's going on, and all the work
> occurring behind the
> >scenes. The more we know about progress, the more we can work
> together and
> >understand the whys and hows and get excited. Also good for
> morale I think,
> >seeing and hearing progress... but with that you also need to
> talk
> >challenges, goals and improvements to be made. 
> >
> >Perhaps you might like to speak at the conference and let us
> know what you
> >have been doing, what you are hoping to do and how you are
> working with NZ
> >to help our case here? I would be more than happy, I am sure
> everyone would
> >love to know and also ways they can help women have more
> options in
> >Australia. Lyn Allison is going to be listening - its an
> opportunity to be
> >heard which we can't miss, no matter how many times we have
> to say it.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >
> >Kelly Zantey
> >Creator, BellyBelly.com.au
> >Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby
> >BellyBelly Birth Support
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Justine Caines
> >Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:47 PM
> >To: OzMid List
> >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?
> >
> >Dear Kelly an

Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[Sue Cookson]

Hi,
I'm still getting only the odd email so apologies if I repeat what 
anyone else has said.
Justine really has her finger on the pulse in terms of consumer 
apathy/lack of knowledge. One thing that really struck me as I was 
completing my midwifery degree though and doing my clinical placements, 
was how scared most midwives working in the hospitals are of being sued. 
They practice defensive midwifery/obstetrics becuase they are constantly 
covering their arses.


The same story of course with all the doctors. And that's how we are all 
taught, as such. And as a student, when I dared to stand up for the 
women to stay off the CTG or refuse a c/section just because it was 8pm 
what did I get - abuse and fear thrown at me by 'senior' midwives - 'it 
will be on your head if that baby dies' stuff. And I'm not kidding or 
making this up. This is how we as students are taught - be it within a 
BMid degree or as a post grad nurse... and we work besdie all the fear 
based doctors...


Of course I discussed CTG vs intermittent auscultation, etc etc and 
placed the documents on the desk the next morning, but if I hadn't had 
my 20 odd years of normal birth prior to doing my placements then I 
would be learning to behave and think like others who work in and for 
the system. I was even challenged fully for delaying cord clamping ..by 
a young doctor ..who of course was taught that cutting the cord 
stimulates the baby to breathe... and when I presented a PP presentation 
to other midwives in the unit about delayed cord clamping - one 
response? None of us cut the cord early here anyway. Duh - I nearly fell 
over. This is why there is so little change


And don't bite my head off either - I know there are also midwives 
working in the system who are doing fantastic work to enact change - to 
policies and attitudes, to empower the women ... bu in my mind, the 
change will have to occur as a total change - like midwifery led units 
with little doctor input, where midwives are happy to truly advocate for 
the women and be prepared to continue to learn - like taking women past 
41 weeks or even 42 weeks if all is well, taking on care of normal birth 
with all its facets  birthing happier and healthier babies with 
mothers intact about their birth process and should I say it .. maybe 
even empowered as mothers and parents.


Sue




Nah, not throwing it out the window at all, I see it as having great
potential and a great opportunity to learn and develop for Australia. It's
great for everyone to know what you've just said Justine, as no-one really
knows anything about what's going on, and all the work occurring behind the
scenes. The more we know about progress, the more we can work together and
understand the whys and hows and get excited. Also good for morale I think,
seeing and hearing progress... but with that you also need to talk
challenges, goals and improvements to be made. 


Perhaps you might like to speak at the conference and let us know what you
have been doing, what you are hoping to do and how you are working with NZ
to help our case here? I would be more than happy, I am sure everyone would
love to know and also ways they can help women have more options in
Australia. Lyn Allison is going to be listening - its an opportunity to be
heard which we can't miss, no matter how many times we have to say it.

Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au
Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby
BellyBelly Birth Support

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:47 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

Dear Kelly and all

Some additional information may assist you before you totally throw the NZ
model out the window.

For those of us who have lobbied at high levels, and been involved with
writing (and selling!) NMAP etc we needed to totally understand the good and
the bad of NZ.

Kelly your statements re intervention in NZ on a broad brush are not totally
true.

One of the major down falls of the stats (ie c/s) is the midwifery
interaction with obstetrics (ie large metro units that have the greatest
birth numbers).  To prove this look at the NZ rural units stats where
midwives are providing a total care package without an obstetric unit and
epidural service at the door.  These stats are stunning.

The funding arrangement is NZ is wonderful.  It gives parity to each
maternity health professional undertaking the same work.  It has been
legislated (s88). It also places the woman at the centre to choose her carer
and direct payment accordingly. The consumer focus re dispute resolution is
stunning. (Are you aware of this Kelly) Compare all of this with Australia.
Women are mostly treated as a piece of meat that will make them money.  Last
week I heard a GP/Ob respond to 6 complaints with "Well I'm tr

RE: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[Kelly Zantey]

Nah, not throwing it out the window at all, I see it as having great
potential and a great opportunity to learn and develop for Australia. It's
great for everyone to know what you've just said Justine, as no-one really
knows anything about what's going on, and all the work occurring behind the
scenes. The more we know about progress, the more we can work together and
understand the whys and hows and get excited. Also good for morale I think,
seeing and hearing progress... but with that you also need to talk
challenges, goals and improvements to be made. 

Perhaps you might like to speak at the conference and let us know what you
have been doing, what you are hoping to do and how you are working with NZ
to help our case here? I would be more than happy, I am sure everyone would
love to know and also ways they can help women have more options in
Australia. Lyn Allison is going to be listening - its an opportunity to be
heard which we can't miss, no matter how many times we have to say it.

Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au
Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby
BellyBelly Birth Support

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:47 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

Dear Kelly and all

Some additional information may assist you before you totally throw the NZ
model out the window.

For those of us who have lobbied at high levels, and been involved with
writing (and selling!) NMAP etc we needed to totally understand the good and
the bad of NZ.

Kelly your statements re intervention in NZ on a broad brush are not totally
true.

One of the major down falls of the stats (ie c/s) is the midwifery
interaction with obstetrics (ie large metro units that have the greatest
birth numbers).  To prove this look at the NZ rural units stats where
midwives are providing a total care package without an obstetric unit and
epidural service at the door.  These stats are stunning.

The funding arrangement is NZ is wonderful.  It gives parity to each
maternity health professional undertaking the same work.  It has been
legislated (s88). It also places the woman at the centre to choose her carer
and direct payment accordingly. The consumer focus re dispute resolution is
stunning. (Are you aware of this Kelly) Compare all of this with Australia.
Women are mostly treated as a piece of meat that will make them money.  Last
week I heard a GP/Ob respond to 6 complaints with "Well I'm trying to run a
business".

Australian women have no real choice. Choice of a private Hosp and private
Ob is NOT choice. 1% access to midwifery is NOT CHOICE.

So one of the major solutions for them (NZ) and us is a total midwifery
scope of practice that does not place a woman within an obstetric dominated
setting unless there is clinical need.  This means home birth and stand
alone midwifery units, this means women labouring at home for as long as
possible (with their midwife).  You only need to look at Australian
co-located birth centres to get a similar picture.  Yes it is the best we
have but the 50% transfer rate is not representative of women's incapacity
or midwifery care (on the whole).  It is as a result of obstetric domination
and protocols that have no basis of evidence.  This is how we set midwifery
and women up to fail.  Why can't a woman with PROM labour in a BC?  What
difference is the transfer to a theatre from delivery suite to BC? This is a
total furphy.  So are many other's that exist.

The answer in Australia is firstly a funding stream.  Medicare for midwives
(without restriction).  Then women actually have a funded choice.  From
there many hurdles (no doubt). I agree women are the key, but it is nearly
impossible to get women to fight for or even explore something they have no
experience of.  So a funded choice would get the cultural change happening.
To do this we need midwives that are with women so I believe it is a
partnership of change.  Women will lead but midwives will be there right
beside them.

In solidarity

Justine


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.



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Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[Justine Caines]

Dear Kelly and all

Some additional information may assist you before you totally throw the NZ
model out the window.

For those of us who have lobbied at high levels, and been involved with
writing (and selling!) NMAP etc we needed to totally understand the good and
the bad of NZ.

Kelly your statements re intervention in NZ on a broad brush are not totally
true.

One of the major down falls of the stats (ie c/s) is the midwifery
interaction with obstetrics (ie large metro units that have the greatest
birth numbers).  To prove this look at the NZ rural units stats where
midwives are providing a total care package without an obstetric unit and
epidural service at the door.  These stats are stunning.

The funding arrangement is NZ is wonderful.  It gives parity to each
maternity health professional undertaking the same work.  It has been
legislated (s88). It also places the woman at the centre to choose her carer
and direct payment accordingly. The consumer focus re dispute resolution is
stunning. (Are you aware of this Kelly) Compare all of this with Australia.
Women are mostly treated as a piece of meat that will make them money.  Last
week I heard a GP/Ob respond to 6 complaints with "Well I'm trying to run a
business".

Australian women have no real choice. Choice of a private Hosp and private
Ob is NOT choice. 1% access to midwifery is NOT CHOICE.

So one of the major solutions for them (NZ) and us is a total midwifery
scope of practice that does not place a woman within an obstetric dominated
setting unless there is clinical need.  This means home birth and stand
alone midwifery units, this means women labouring at home for as long as
possible (with their midwife).  You only need to look at Australian
co-located birth centres to get a similar picture.  Yes it is the best we
have but the 50% transfer rate is not representative of women's incapacity
or midwifery care (on the whole).  It is as a result of obstetric domination
and protocols that have no basis of evidence.  This is how we set midwifery
and women up to fail.  Why can't a woman with PROM labour in a BC?  What
difference is the transfer to a theatre from delivery suite to BC? This is a
total furphy.  So are many other's that exist.

The answer in Australia is firstly a funding stream.  Medicare for midwives
(without restriction).  Then women actually have a funded choice.  From
there many hurdles (no doubt). I agree women are the key, but it is nearly
impossible to get women to fight for or even explore something they have no
experience of.  So a funded choice would get the cultural change happening.
To do this we need midwives that are with women so I believe it is a
partnership of change.  Women will lead but midwives will be there right
beside them.

In solidarity

Justine


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RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[Kelly Zantey]

ild upon it
and invest in it, they will come! This is no quick fix, but it requires
others to give it a chance, and see how it can and will benefit midwifery in
the long run in a positive way. Its not that hard. All I have to say. :)
Back to my family now :)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:09 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

Well Kelly, midwifery led care is the best way to get a great birth. 
However if you are working inside a big system you are a product of what is 
on offer.  Even though the midwives maybe doing a great job ( and most are) 
you cannot get away from the constraints placed on you by policy and 
procedure.

Sue I think your right it is important to discuss on going issues regarding 
birth so we can all grow, learn and change.  Maybe We are all just more 
comfortable discussing safe issues where most of us agree than approaching 
more contentious issue that sparks debate.  That's hardly healthy for a 
community is it.

Lisa Barrett 

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Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[Helen and Graham]

I agree with you Brenda.  Here's another thought...Sometimes the debate gets 
very heated and I wonder if this has turned some people off staying on the 
list. e.g. If they say something a bit different they may get howled down 
for it.


The risk is that you end up with a list full of only those people who agree 
with each other on most things and hence "preaching to the converted".


I suppose it is a good reminder to be careful how you respond to ideas or 
give feedback.  They can come across differently to how we intended. I don't 
believe in censoring opinions, just consideration for our differences and 
create change in a positive manner.


But yea, I think it is also about it being summer, Christmas and school 
holidays.  I must say I am looking forward to the posts increasing again!


Helen
Another online childbirth forum addict

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?



Hi Sue,

Perhaps...just a thought ..but maybe it's 
just that it's summer & sitting in front of a computer is not only time 
consuming but very unhealthy. We are all so much more aware of what 
constitutes a quality healthy lifestyle nowadays and as Di says, computers 
don't feature largely in the equation do they ?
We need to be out doing stuff with our lives & families not being 
anti-social indoors.

Just maybe ?? Do you think ??

Also, what difference does it make how we feel about the contentious 
issues you've mentioned, really ? We all do what we are comfortable with 
regardless of what others think & whilst open discussion has a definite 
up-side it also has a definite negative aspect.
As experienced midiwves we have our own beliefs & opinions about our 
skills, spheres of safe practice & beliefs, we don't need to be 
continually reminded that we are practising "on the edge & are unsafe or 
litigously vulnerable". We also don't need to be critical of our peers & 
their practice.


The up-side of discussion is the learning & support of the contributers & 
I've learned heaps from this list, it's been great !! Don't know how much 
I've contributed myself but I have tried !


Thats just MHO !

Off out to play in the sun now !

Brenda




diane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

My New years resolution is to beat my internet addiction and find more
"time" in my life, Im still reading but not adding much!!
Cheers,
Di

- Original Message - 
From: "Sue Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:29 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?


> Hi,
> after being on this list for a long, long, time i just have to ask:
> where has this list gone to?
> it used to be fully midwifery - issues, questions, politics - to
inform ,
> incite, advocate - for better maternity care systems across australia
-
> for all women.
>
> sure, i've been studying and not contributing like i used to, but
there
> has hardly been a day where i haven't checked my ozmid email. and now
-
> can i say - it's boring- it's tame - very little new information - my
> recent questions about mental health and women giving birth - so few
> responses - why- 10% of the population have mental health issues - how
do
> we as midwives deal with them - who knows cos only a few have
answered?
>
> and how do we as midwives create change? by 'eating' each other, by
> gossiping about each other or back-biting - or by
> sharing/respecting/acknowledging our differences?
>
> hey, to each and everyone of you 'lurking' out there, let's have some
> dialogue.
>
> what do you think about me attending women who are medicated for
mental
> health issues?
> what do you think about homebirths for breech babies? for twins?
> what do you think about independent homebirth midwives working alone?
>
> where's the thinking gone? where's the dialogue? i so miss it
>
> sue cookson
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
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>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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>
>

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Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[Lisa Barrett]

Well Kelly, midwifery led care is the best way to get a great birth. 
However if you are working inside a big system you are a product of what is 
on offer.  Even though the midwives maybe doing a great job ( and most are) 
you cannot get away from the constraints placed on you by policy and 
procedure.


Sue I think your right it is important to discuss on going issues regarding 
birth so we can all grow, learn and change.  Maybe We are all just more 
comfortable discussing safe issues where most of us agree than approaching 
more contentious issue that sparks debate.  That's hardly healthy for a 
community is it.


Lisa Barrett 


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[brendamanning]

Hi Sue,

Perhaps...just a thought ..but maybe it's just 
that it's summer & sitting in front of a computer is not only time consuming 
but very unhealthy. We are all so much more aware of what constitutes a quality 
healthy lifestyle nowadays and as Di says, computers don't feature largely in 
the equation do they ?
We need to be out doing stuff with our lives & families not being anti-social 
indoors. 
Just maybe ?? Do you think ??

Also, what difference does it make how we feel about the contentious issues 
you've mentioned, really ? We all do what we are comfortable with regardless of 
what others think & whilst open discussion has a definite up-side it also has a 
definite negative aspect. 
As experienced midiwves we have our own beliefs & opinions about our skills, 
spheres of safe practice & beliefs, we don't need to be continually reminded 
that we are practising "on the edge & are unsafe or litigously vulnerable". We 
also don't need to be critical of our peers & their practice. 

The up-side of discussion is the learning & support of the contributers & I've 
learned heaps from this list, it's been great !! Don't know how much I've 
contributed myself but I have tried !

Thats just MHO !

Off out to play in the sun now !

Brenda



> diane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> My New years resolution is to beat my internet addiction and find more 
> "time" in my life, Im still reading but not adding much!!
> Cheers,
> Di
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Sue Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:29 PM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> > after being on this list for a long, long, time i just have to ask:
> > where has this list gone to?
> > it used to be fully midwifery - issues, questions, politics - to 
> inform , 
> > incite, advocate - for better maternity care systems across australia 
> - 
> > for all women.
> >
> > sure, i've been studying and not contributing like i used to, but 
> there 
> > has hardly been a day where i haven't checked my ozmid email. and now 
> - 
> > can i say - it's boring- it's tame - very little new information - my 
> > recent questions about mental health and women giving birth - so few 
> > responses - why- 10% of the population have mental health issues - how 
> do 
> > we as midwives deal with them - who knows cos only a few have 
> answered?
> >
> > and how do we as midwives create change? by 'eating' each other, by 
> > gossiping about each other or back-biting - or by 
> > sharing/respecting/acknowledging our differences?
> >
> > hey, to each and everyone of you 'lurking' out there, let's have some 
> > dialogue.
> >
> > what do you think about me attending women who are medicated for 
> mental 
> > health issues?
> > what do you think about homebirths for breech babies? for twins?
> > what do you think about independent homebirth midwives working alone?
> >
> > where's the thinking gone? where's the dialogue? i so miss it
> >
> > sue cookson
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> > __ NOD32 1959 (20070105) Information __
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> > 
> 
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?

[diane]

My New years resolution is to beat my internet addiction and find more 
"time" in my life, Im still reading but not adding much!!

Cheers,
Di

- Original Message - 
From: "Sue Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:29 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] where has this list gone?



Hi,
after being on this list for a long, long, time i just have to ask:
where has this list gone to?
it used to be fully midwifery - issues, questions, politics - to inform , 
incite, advocate - for better maternity care systems across australia - 
for all women.


sure, i've been studying and not contributing like i used to, but there 
has hardly been a day where i haven't checked my ozmid email. and now - 
can i say - it's boring- it's tame - very little new information - my 
recent questions about mental health and women giving birth - so few 
responses - why- 10% of the population have mental health issues - how do 
we as midwives deal with them - who knows cos only a few have answered?


and how do we as midwives create change? by 'eating' each other, by 
gossiping about each other or back-biting - or by 
sharing/respecting/acknowledging our differences?


hey, to each and everyone of you 'lurking' out there, let's have some 
dialogue.


what do you think about me attending women who are medicated for mental 
health issues?

what do you think about homebirths for breech babies? for twins?
what do you think about independent homebirth midwives working alone?

where's the thinking gone? where's the dialogue? i so miss it

sue cookson
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

__ NOD32 1959 (20070105) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com




--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.