Re: "Real" time updates to and from clients

[ross]

Interesting.

Do you know, does "Silverlight 4: Duplex WCF over TCP" have any issues
with server affinity in a web farm / load balancing configuration?

I believe that might be an issue with Duplex WCF over http.

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Peter Gfader  wrote:
> Hi list
> I just give you a quick update on this..
>>>PeterG: WCF net.tcp protocol in Silverlight 4 (Polling over TCP Sockets)
> I have to correct my self here.
> This is not the case, WCF is not polling over TCP sockets, but keeping a
> socket open and using that to send and receive messages... awesome
> performance...
>
> Initially I started typing up an email, then I was thinking: Hey put this on
> your blog and get some traffic on it...
> So here is the blog post
> http://peitor.blogspot.com/2010/03/time-communication-clientserver.html
>
> Content here
> 
>
> We are building something similar and have the following requirements
>
> People on the web should be able to use it
> No download of an application
> Broadcasting messages to all user (server to clients)
> Everyone should be able to use it
>
> People behind firewalls, proxies, NATs, …
> People with 1 of the current browsers
>
> Lightweight solution needed
>
>
>
> We tested and verified different technology options like:
>
> HTML+ Reverse AJAX
> Silverlight 2: Duplex WCF over HTTP (Long polling HTTP connection under the
> hood or Comet-style)
> Silverlight 4: Duplex WCF over TCP (is using net.tcp, socket connection
> under the hood)
> Silverlight raw Sockets (maybe even using SocketsLight)
> Silverlight UDP
> HTML 5 web sockets
>
> The signs for HTML 5 web sockets are not so good, even though the promise
> for the socket implementation sounds interesting!
> But it seems that HTML 5 is not going to be ready before ~201X, X > 2 and
> not sure what that X is…
> More here
> http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/programming-and-development/?p=718
> http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/HTML_5_Won_t_Be_Ready_Until_2022DOT_Yes__2022DOT
>
>
>
> We finally are using "Silverlight with Duplex WCF over TCP”
> And falling back to "Silverlight with Duplex WCF over HTTP” when we have a
> firewall or proxy in the middle that causes connection problems.
>
> The main reason for going in that direction was:
>
> Ease of development and productivity in coding with Silverlight and WCF
> Developing against one API (WCF) and doing an easy fallback behind the
> scenes (10 lines of code!)
> Performance is awesome by using TCP (see Tomasz post about that)
> Testing Silverlight means testing 1 environment against testing different
> browsers, operating systems, JavaScript versions, OS versions, browser
> versions,
>
>
>
> PS
> There is a new HTTP polling duplex mode added in Silverlight 4 RC, called
> “MultipleMessagesPerPoll”, makes this technology even more interesting
>
>
> .peter.gfader.
> http://peitor.blogspot.com/
> http://twitter.com/peitor
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Peter Gfader 
> wrote:
>>
>> >>In Silverlight 3 didn’t they introduce a duplex WCF service?
>>
>> Yes they introduced duplex WCF services, but it is doing "long" polling
>> under the hood...
>>
>> Messages from the server to the client within a particular session are
>> sent using an HTTP response to a long lasting HTTP request the client makes
>> to the server (the “long poll”).
>> The client side implementation of the polling duplex protocol ensures that
>> the server always has such pending HTTP request available; as soon as the
>> server sends a message to the client using the response to the long poll,
>> the client issues a new long poll.
>> From
>>
>>
>> http://tomasz.janczuk.org/2009/09/scale-out-of-silverlight-http-polling.html
>>
>> .peter.gfader.
>> http://peitor.blogspot.com/
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 4:17 PM, John OBrien 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter,
>>>
>>> We used sockets in Silverlight2 to prototype a spatial collaboration
>>> concept. The main issues we faced were:
>>>
>>> 1.   Needed to run a windows application (testing=console app,
>>> production=windows service) for both server side processing and also as a
>>> policy service. Made it hard to deploy.
>>>
>>> 2.   Very raw technology, we had to deal with packets of data and
>>> worried about robustness of the server solution under heavy load.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the end we didn’t move beyond the prototype but decided we need to
>>> evaluate the purchase of a socket based communication server (often used for
>>> online games).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In Silverlight 3 didn’t they introduce a duplex WCF service?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com
>>> [mailto:ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gfader
>>> Sent: Thursday, 28 January 2010 1:33 PM
>>> To: ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com
>>> Subject: "Real" time updates to and from clients
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I play around with "real time" updates to and from SL clients, and have
>>> figured out a couple of possibilities with Sil

Re: "Real" time updates to and from clients

[Peter Gfader]

Hi list

I just give you a quick update on this..

>>PeterG: WCF net.tcp protocol in Silverlight 4 (Polling over TCP Sockets)
I have to correct my self here.
This is not the case, WCF is not polling over TCP sockets, but keeping a
socket open and using that to send and receive messages... awesome
performance...


Initially I started typing up an email, then I was thinking: Hey put this on
your blog and get some traffic on it...

So here is the blog post
http://peitor.blogspot.com/2010/03/time-communication-clientserver.html


Content here


We are building something similar and have the following *requirements*

   1. People on the *web* should be able to use it
   2. *No download* of an application
   3. *Broadcasting* messages to all user (server to clients)
   4. Everyone should be able to use it
  1. People behind *firewalls*, proxies, NATs, …
  2. People with 1 of the *current browsers*
   5. *Lightweight* solution needed



We tested and verified different technology options like:

   - HTML+ Reverse AJAX
   - Silverlight 2: Duplex WCF over HTTP (Long polling HTTP connection under
   the hood or Comet-style)
   - Silverlight 4: Duplex WCF over TCP (is using net.tcp, socket connection
   under the hood)
   - Silverlight raw Sockets (maybe even using
SocketsLight
   )
   - Silverlight UDP
   - HTML 5 web sockets

The signs for HTML 5 web sockets are not so good, even though the promise
for the socket implementation sounds interesting!
But it seems that HTML 5 is not going to be ready before ~201X, X > 2 and
not sure what that X is…
More here
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/programming-and-development/?p=718
http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/HTML_5_Won_t_Be_Ready_Until_2022DOT_Yes__2022DOT



We finally are using "*Silverlight* with Duplex *WCF over TCP*”
And falling back to "*Silverlight* with Duplex* WCF over HTTP*” when we have
a firewall or proxy in the middle that causes connection problems.

The main reason for going in that direction was:

   - *Ease of development* and *productivity* in coding with Silverlight and
   WCF
   - Developing against *one API *(WCF) and doing an easy fallback behind
   the scenes (10 lines of code!)
   - *Performance* is awesome by using TCP (see Tomasz
post
about
   that)
   - *Testing* Silverlight means testing 1 environment against testing
   different browsers, operating systems, JavaScript versions, OS versions,
   browser versions,



PS
There is a new HTTP polling duplex
mode
added
in Silverlight 4 RC, called “MultipleMessagesPerPoll”, makes this technology
even more interesting



.peter.gfader.
http://peitor.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/peitor

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Peter Gfader wrote:

>  >>In Silverlight 3 didn’t they introduce a duplex WCF service?
>
> Yes they introduced duplex WCF services, *but* it is doing "long" polling
> under the hood...
>
> Messages from the server to the client within a particular session are sent
> using an HTTP response to a* long lasting HTTP request* the client makes
> to the server (the “long poll”).
> The client side implementation of the polling duplex protocol ensures that
> the server always has such pending HTTP request available; as soon as the
> server sends a message to the client using the response to the long poll,
> the client issues a new long poll.
>
> From
>
>
> http://tomasz.janczuk.org/2009/09/scale-out-of-silverlight-http-polling.html
>
>
>
> .peter.gfader.
> http://peitor.blogspot.com/
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 4:17 PM, John OBrien wrote:
>
>>  Peter,
>>
>> We used sockets in Silverlight2 to prototype a spatial collaboration
>> concept. The main issues we faced were:
>>
>> 1.   Needed to run a windows application (testing=console app,
>> production=windows service) for both server side processing and also as a
>> policy service. Made it hard to deploy.
>>
>> 2.   Very raw technology, we had to deal with packets of data and
>> worried about robustness of the server solution under heavy load.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the end we didn’t move beyond the prototype but decided we need to
>> evaluate the purchase of a socket based communication server (often used for
>> online games).
>>
>>
>>
>> In Silverlight 3 didn’t they introduce a duplex WCF service?
>>
>>
>>
>> John.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com [mailto:
>> ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Gfader
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 28 January 2010 1:33 PM
>> *To:* ozsilverlight@ozsilverlight.com
>> *Subject:* "Real" time updates to and from clients
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I play around with "real time" updates to and from SL clients, and have
>> figured out a couple of possibilities with Silverlight.
>>
>>1. Sockets
>>2. Polling 

SQL Server 2008 Value Calculator source code

[ken zheng]

Hi Guys:

   I want to create a similar application like SQL value calculator with 
slides, wonder anyone has examples or tutorial I can follow?

http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2008/en/us/value-calc.aspx

Cheers

Ken


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