Re: [Pan-users] blind user of pan
seth Hurst posted on Fri, 2 Sep 2022 04:05:05 -0400 as excerpted: > Is there a better way for reading of messages? Right now I'm > copy/pasting into a separate text editor to read messages because orca > will not read the article bodies. I would like a more streamlined way of > doing this but for now I guess it works. Great news reader. Sighted user here so I can't say for sure whether any of these suggestions will work, but there's several things I'd try. This assumes the menus are appropriately accessible but I guess they are or you'd not have gotten this far. Anyway, four suggestions, first three in order from guessed most likely to work to least likely, with the forth I'd guess actually more likely to work than the first, but also more hassle, thus its last listing. 1) Tabbed layout (as opposed to the default multipane view). The checkbox for this is on the View menu, Layout, Tabbed Layout. The result should be a set of three tabs shown one at a time, group, header, body, instead of three panes. In the same place there's also menu entries to jump to each of the three tabs. IIRC there's hotkeys for the functions too, but I've long had mine customized so I can't say what the defaults are. With any luck orca will be able to read the article body when the body tab is displayed. 2) Paned layout, but temporarily hide the group and header panes so only the body pane is shown. Again under View, Layout, there's separate toggles for each of the panes. Again, the hope is that if the group and header panes are hidden so only the body pane is available, that'll let orca read it. 3) Toggle expanded/collapsed body title area. Unfortunately I'm not sure this is accessible so you may need a sighted helper to toggle it, but at the top of the body pane there's a header- display section that can be collapsed into a single line or expanded into several. Double-clicking the section toggles it. The idea here would be that perhaps toggling that will let orca read the actual body content that appears below this section. 4) Try using pan's external editor functionality. This takes a different tact and would need to be done for each message so would be more hassle, but OTOH I'm guessing will be most likely to actually work. First you'll need to setup an external editor in pan's preferences, applications tab, text editor. Setup your choice there. Once that's set, for the first message you need to want to read and possibly reply to, followup-reply to open pan's posting window (post menu, followup to newgroup), then in the resulting window, edit menu, run editor. This should open the message as a reply in your chosen editor, which presumably orca knows how to handle properly or it wouldn't be your chosen editor. If that works suitably there's an option in the same menu to always run editor. You can set that and at least avoid manually opening the external editor each time, but you'll still need to "followup" to the message in ordered to open that external editor. Hopefully one of those works. FWIW, after several years with very little even basic maintenance pan only recently got a new maintainer and switched from gtk2 to gtk3 components which are only now reasonably stable. I believe in general gtk3 offers far better accessibility opportunities with less work, which I'd guess it why pan's working as well as it is for you, but given the lower testing accessibility gets there's sure to be bugs in that still and you're the first I've seen reporting them. So you're already helping to fix them by just posting this. =:^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan always crashing fast again
dchmelik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w posted on Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:37:53 -0700 as excerpted: > Like for past few years until earlier this year, pan always crashes fast > again (on Slackware64 15+current GNU/Linux). > > Pan always says something like this before crashing: (pan:16759): > Gtk-CRITICAL **: 19:23:47.724: IA__gtk_tree_view_column_set_fixed_width: > assertion 'fixed_width > 0' failed What version of pan (FWIW I'm running live-git-master pan at the commit shown in my headers, here)? And do you know or can you check whether it's built against gtk2 or gtk3? (If you can't check the package deps try running ldd /usr/bin/pan | grep gtk in a terminal, changing the path if appropriate of course. Here I get libgtkspell3-3.so.0 and libgtk-3.so.0, so it's a gtk3 build, not gtk2.) Until quite recently pan was built by default against gtk2, and that looks like a bug I had somewhat frequently with it. However, while it *DID* mess up the UI, it did *not* crash pan, which would continue to run, just with the UI messed up (only showing one column in the overview/header pane). So while you might have that bug too, it shouldn't be triggering the crash, just by coincidence happening before whatever does trigger the crash. Meanwhile, gtk2 is being phased out and some distros don't even have it available any longer, so those it's quite likely a recent pan is built against gtk3. The problem there is that only /quite/ recently were a number of critical gtk3 and other newer library bugs fixed (while pan has a new maintainer now, it was effectively frozen for a few years, during which it unfortunately got pretty stale against current libraries, and all those accumulated new-version ports and associated bugs took some time to fix), so unless you have a *really* new version, you're likely seeing a now fixed crash related to the first still-quite-buggy gtk3 and other library upgrade ports. Pan version 0.151, "Butcha", was released in late June. That should have most of the fixes and be pretty stable (tho a quick look says there's more than translations committed since then, but I'd say I've been stable since about then or a bit earlier), but given distro release cycles and the fact that (as a Gentooer) I don't know how current Slackware 15+current actually is, I'd say 50/50 you're on something before that, and the fact that you're still crashing increases the odds further, to I'd say 70/30 that you're running something without those bugfixes. Of course it could be a problem with a specific library you're running, too. At least one of the problems I had for a few months was I suspect a gmime library issue. I'm now stable but my gmime (3.2.13) was last updated Aug 22 (tho pan was stable for me somewhat before that, so it wasn't that version that fixed it for me) so... Anyway, the most frustrating crashing bug I did have recently, from the switch to building to gtk3 until just a few months ago (sometime early this year), was somewhat reliably triggered by mouse-move over pan's body pane. As long as I was very careful to keep the mouse away from the body pane, pan would normally stay running, and just a quick stray over the body pane often wouldn't trigger a crash either, but if I lingered and especially if I tried to scroll the body pane (which had been and is now again a habit, so I was doing it quite a bit... until this bug forced me out of the habit for a few months), it'd generally only be seconds until pan crashed. Unfortunately for pinning down the fix, I learned to keep the mouse well away from the body pane for awhile, and only fairly recently discovered that mouse over the body pane didn't crash pan any longer, so I really don't know what fixed it, only that /something/, /maybe/ libgmime related (I know a couple other non-crash bugs were gmime related, not sure about this one), did indeed fix it, and I've not had a pan crash in some months now. So assuming pan isn't crashing so fast you don't have the chance, try keeping the mouse out of the body pane and see if that helps it keep running. If it does, you very likely have the same bug I did, and /something/ I updated recently fixed it. If pan crashes before you get that far or when the mouse is elsewhere, you probably have a different bug. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] how to turn off quoting?
seth Hurst posted on Sat, 3 Sep 2022 10:08:38 -0400 as excerpted: > Is there a way or option to turn off quoting a message when replying or > following up to a newsgroup message? GNKSA[1] (which pan follows) strongly encouraged quote with reply-in- context underneath format, so AFAIK, no. However, pan *DOES* have a nice feature (also mentioned by GNKSA) of only quoting the selected text, if any was selected when followup/reply was triggered. So (accessibility issues aside) it's relatively easy to select say a single word or character and reply to that, then erase it. But generally if you're not quoting at least a few words or a sentence of context in ordered to reply to indicate appropriate context, arguably you're doing it wrong, and the defaults are there to encourage you to do it better. --- [1] GNKSA quoting, see point #10: https://web.archive.org/web/20160417105503/http://www.gnksa.org/gnksa.txt -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan always crashing fast again
On 9/4/22 5:19 AM, Duncan wrote: dchmelik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w posted on Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:37:53 -0700 as excerpted: Like for past few years until earlier this year, pan always crashes fast again (on Slackware64 15+current GNU/Linux). Pan always says something like this before crashing: (pan:16759): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 19:23:47.724: IA__gtk_tree_view_column_set_fixed_width: assertion 'fixed_width > 0' failed What version of pan (FWIW I'm running live-git-master pan at the commit shown in my headers, here)? And do you know or can you check whether it's built against gtk2 or gtk3? (If you can't check the package deps try running ldd /usr/bin/pan | grep gtk in a terminal, changing the path if appropriate of course. Here I get libgtkspell3-3.so.0 and libgtk-3.so.0, so it's a gtk3 build, not gtk2.) GTK2 0.149 Pan version 0.151, "Butcha", was released in late June. That should have most of the fixes and be pretty stable (tho a quick look says there's more than translations committed since then, but I'd say I've been stable since about then or a bit earlier), but given distro release cycles and the fact that (as a Gentooer) I don't know how current Slackware 15+current actually is, I'd say 50/50 you're on something before that, and the fact that you're still crashing increases the odds further, to I'd say 70/30 that you're running something without those bugfixes. latest I see is 0.150 ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
