RE: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC
Chargein mabaso. Would you like to come back the pac?i do have an application form waiting for you.but you must resign from pam first. From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:pa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chargein Mabaso Sent: 04 June 2010 04:26 PM To: payco@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC Cde Narius Evertime I read your contribution in this group makes me wonder what are your intentions. I sometimes wonder what makes so adamant about your wrong positions. Where are you paying your allegiance to? To the PAC you claim to be loyal to or to Letlapa, ...? You sound like a factionalist yorself. I challenge you, cde Narius, to respond directly to me now. Stop acting like some one with authority on issues on this group. Your utterances do not build even the Party you are claimimg to be loyal to. It is people like you who have cause serious divisions in PAC. When there is problem, they say there is none. I challenge you. Letlapa is 80 - 90% to be blame for the current mess in PAC. Please disprove my hypothesis with facts. In your response, do not take this engagement to be personal. Be objective. Every point must be backed with facts. Educate the rest of the member why you are not a factionalist by nature. I will show you why I believe you are a factionalist. Use my case why I left PAC and formed PAM in your input. Show the rest why do you think we were wrong and we are just a group of factionalists who are doomed to fail as you claim. I will respond back to you accordingly, man to man. I want us to be brutal frank to each other. Live nothing to back your case. Do not nurse my feelings I have a thick skin. Throw whatever punch you might have I will take it as it comes as a man. Bear in mind, we are not fighting, but teaching each other a lesson. I am not a liberal. I dont believe we must keep quiet for the sake of peace when things are bad. I am sick and tired of you stance, son of the soil while you are destructive. This authority that you have, where do you get it, son of the soil? Charge-in Mabaso (Oo-MCharge) PAM Deputy President On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Narius Moloto g...@bcawu.co.za wrote: I agree with you.thami did the right thing,his mission in the pac was accomplished and he went back home and he is happy to be home.those who believe in him will follow him.it http://him.it/ is time to evaluate everyone who was ever in the party leadership at some stage,the role they played then and what happened after they were voted out of those positions.where are they now and what are their relationship with the party they once led.that should give you an idea as to what went wrong.all leaders who did not come through the branches and party structures disappeares after their terms of office and have nothing to do with the party.when they appear is when some members of a faction pulls them in for a factional interest.that bring us to the question of wether it is a right thing to recircle leadership.its is my opinion that leadership of the party is a serious matter,that when you are given an opportunity to lead the party you must make good use of the opportunity.once it leaves it is gone,you may serve the party in some sort of capacity and supportive role.leadership cannot be recircled it is dangerous thing to do. From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:pa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of a...@joburg.org.za Sent: 02 June 2010 01:42 PM To: payco@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC This is not something to be disappointed about. He did not walk the talk when he was Secretary for Education in Gauteng, shortsighted comrades parachuted him to Secretary General, and he did not walk the talk, founded his own party with Cde Tefo and could not organise a branch. This reflects on all of us who claim to be PAC. Ali Khangela Hlongwane Chief Curator: MuseuMAfricA 121 Bree Street Newtown 2001 Box 517 Newtown Tel:(011) 833 5624 Fax:(011)833 5636 Cell: 082 4639869 a...@joburg.org.za www.joburg.org.za http://www.joburg.org.za/ (This letter was sent electronically and is therefore not signed) Sembene sinethemba.mandy...@gmail.com Sent by: payco@googlegroups.com 06/02/2010 12:48 PM Please respond to payco To:Pan Africanist Youth Congress payco@googlegroups.com cc: Subject:[PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC Comrades. I have been a follower of the said man's political life and can confirm that I am disappointed on him as both a man and a parent. The least said about this subject the better comrades believe me. Regards -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com http://www.mayihlome.wordpress.com/ _ The contents of this e-mail and any
[PAYCO] Fw: [GlobalAfricanPresence] How President Kenyatta used British intelligence to spy on his VP Odinga
It is interesting that betrayal of revolution goes along similar line. This sound like Mandela story in Azania. - Forwarded Message From: Kenneth King nnamd...@yahoo.com To: globalafricanprese...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 6 June, 2010 6:10:31 Subject: [GlobalAfricanPresence] How President Kenyatta used British intelligence to spy on his VP Odinga http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/How%20Kenyatta%20used%20British%20intelligence%20to%20spy%20on%20Odinga%20/-/1064/932714/-/1road7z/-/index.html How President Kenyatta used British intelligence to spy on his VP Odinga By MUGUMO MUNENE Posted Saturday, June 5 2010 at 21:00 Kenya’s founding President Jomo Kenyatta sought the help of British spies to protect his government against a suspected plot by his vice-president to overthrow him, according to a new book. Mzee Kenyatta and his lieutenant Charles Njonjo were worried that Jaramogi Oginga Odinga was receiving money from communist countries and was likely to destabilise or overthrow the government. Mzee Kenyatta and Jaramogi had, in the run-up to independence, a great desire for a free Kenya but their ideologies were different. While Mr Odinga had wanted the British colonialists to leave at once, Kenyatta wanted Kenyans to “forgive and forget” the past. Those who wished to remain in Kenya after independence were welcome. Spy agency The political differences introduced a major strain between the President and his VP, and Mzee Kenyatta turned to the British spy agency, MI5, for help, according to a recently published official history of the intelligence organisation. The declassified MI5 material shows why, in their understanding, Mr Odinga refused to assume the premiership in 1961 unless Mzee Kenyatta was first released from detention. Mr Odinga held that Mr Kenyatta was the man to lead Kenya to independence and once called him “Kenya’s second god.” But, as he was about to discover, he had grossly misunderstood the man. “Odinga had probably expected him (Kenyatta) to emerge from prison as a shadow of his former self – about 70 years old (no one knew his exact age), physically feeble, alcoholic, out of touch and a figurehead whom Odinga could dominate,” writes Prof Christopher Andrew in Defend the Realm. Be confiscated “Instead, Odinga found himself outmanoeuvred by Kenyatta, who distanced himself from Kanu’s election programme and promised settlers that they would be welcome to stay in independent Kenya and that their property would not be confiscated.” The author, a Cambridge professor, adds: “The Intelligence in which Kenyatta took the most interest concerned the activities of the pro-Communist Odinga ...With assistance from senior members of the Special Branch, whom Kenyatta had asked to stay on after the end of British rule, at least one of Odinga’s houses was bugged.” On December 12, 1964, the first anniversary of Kenya’s independence and the day Kenya became a republic, Mzee Kenyatta asked former Commonwealth secretary Duncan Sandys if the British could produce “any documentary proof of Odinga receiving money from the Chinese.” “Kenyatta said that he was well aware of these subventions but could not effectively deal with Odinga unless he could confront him with specific evidence. Though no usable evidence seems to have been forthcoming, the Special Branch identified the main conduit by which Odinga received funds from China,” writes Prof Andrew. The book does not identify the conduit. However, in April 1965, Mr Njonjo, the attorney-general, informed the British High Commissioner Malcom Macdonald of reports that Mr Odinga and his associates were plotting a coup. Mr Njonjo requested the intervention of British troops. The anticipated coup did not materialise. Arms seized “Odinga’s offices were searched and several crates of machine guns, grenades and other arms were seized. Soon afterwards, Kenyatta gave the Soviet ambassador a furious dressing down after the arrival of a Soviet arms shipment apparently arranged by Odinga. The arms were sent back to Russia.” The appointment of Mr Odinga to the VP’s position at independence was widely viewed as a reward for the demands he had made to the colonialists that Mzee Kenyatta be released before Kanu could assume the reins of power. But by 1965, their political relationship had collapsed as the two engaged in a contest of might, which Mr Odinga lost in 1966. But Mzee Kenyatta wasn’t ready to break his relations with British agents just yet. Research desk “Soon after Odinga’s sacking, the Head of Training was asked to carry out a review of Kenya’s Intelligence. He recommended the secondment of a British intelligence officer to head a research desk which would coordinate intelligence assessments and produce reports for Kenyatta and other members of his administration and the creation of a National Security Executive to oversee the intelligence community. “His report was
Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC
Cde Narius Which PAC are you referring to? Do you regard the current Party led by Letlapa and guided by the Constitution adopted at Fort Hare as PAC? I thought I made myself clear to Letlapa in one of the PAC NEC meetings I attended when he said the then PAC Consutution was a cause for decades of PAC imprisonment and as a result he said he intended to throw it into the dustbin and rule the PAC by military-styled order. I told him that to me PAC is only PAC with the 1959 Basic Documnts. Without them, it is not different from ANC. What makes PAC different from ANC are the PAC Basic Documents without being doctored. After what happened, what you have there is PAC in name and form but not in content. It is not the same PAC of 1959 Sobukwe led. Cde Narius, when the snake leaves behind its dry skin after a winter season, what is left is not the snake but the snake's skin. That is a big difference. When an individual dies, we call what is left behind after the immoral soul has left the mortal body his corpse (his dead body), not him. Yes, there is a belief, just a belief, that when you talk to the dead human's body you are linknig up with his / her soul even if you have betrayed him/her. What a sad bluffing! Many loyalists of Ndabaningi Sithole did not leave with Robert Mugabe to form another Zanu when Robert Mugabe discovered that Ndabaningi Sithole had already off-ramped from the African Cause. Similarly, former ANCYL leaders such as O.R. Tambo and Nelson Mandela did not break with R.M. Sobukwe even when the ANC adopted a sell-out document thereby dumping the revolutionary nation-buiding progamme,1949 Programme of Action, they developed while they were still members of the ANCYL.. All what they said was that they would die being ANC members as many people are now saying in both the PAC and ANC. That alone is an admision that they see what is wrong with the current PAC and ANC. Their allegiance is solely to either a leader or Party name calle PAC or ANC, not what the Party stands for, its ideas (ideology). Mugabe and Sobukwe did not d that. For example, the ANC of 1912 - 1955 is different from the ANC of 1955 - 2010. Can you see that difference? The PAC of 1959 up to the Fort Congress became the custodian of the ANC of 1912 - 1955 and its 1949 Programme of Action. That is PAC became ANC of 1912 - 1955 in content. On the other side, ANC remained ANC in form only, not in content. The current hot debate on nationaisation of the nation's assets that is going on within the ANC are just signs and symptoms of the major problem / disease. Similarly, the Letlapa-led PAC is PAC in form only but not in content. I cannot be part of a PAC in form (like a snake's skin). Cde Narius, it is now a matter of the difference between the PAC body and its soul. There is nothing wrong to pray for the immortal soul to come back to its mortal body. Miracles sometimes happen, we are told. They say when you pray hard and honestly with all your heart, the dead sometimes rise from their graves. Keep on praying son of the soil. *Akulahlwa mbeleko ngakufelwa * *(Victory belongs to the most peserverering*)! Remember: You means must justify your end. I do not see that t all. Izwe Lethu! Charge-in Mabaso PAM Deputy President On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Narius Moloto g...@bcawu.co.za wrote: Chargein mabaso. Would you like to come back the pac?i do have an application form waiting for you.but you must resign from pam first. *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:pa...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Chargein Mabaso *Sent:* 04 June 2010 04:26 PM *To:* payco@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO] Re: KA-PLAATJIE JOINS ANC Cde Narius Evertime I read your contribution in this group makes me wonder what are your intentions. I sometimes wonder what makes so adamant about your wrong positions. Where are you paying your allegiance to? To the PAC you claim to be loyal to or to Letlapa, ...? You sound like a factionalist yorself. I challenge you, cde Narius, to respond directly to me now. Stop acting like some one with authority on issues on this group. Your utterances do not build even the Party you are claimimg to be loyal to. It is people like you who have cause serious divisions in PAC. When there is problem, they say there is none. I challenge you. Letlapa is 80 - 90% to be blame for the current mess in PAC. Please disprove my hypothesis with facts. In your response, do not take this engagement to be personal. Be objective. Every point must be backed with facts. Educate the rest of the member why you are not a factionalist by nature. I will show you why I believe you are a factionalist. Use my case why I left PAC and formed PAM in your input. Show the rest why do you think we were wrong and we are just a group of factionalists who are doomed to fail as you claim. I will respond back to you accordingly, man to man. I want us to be brutal frank to each other. Live nothing to back
