Re: [PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference
Comrade Xaba We have not seen any form of you being harassed, I ask you is basic and straight forward question. Your Presidential ambitions has blurred your judgement, nonetheless good luck! Regards Ndima On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 6:57 AM, Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com wrote: It is nice to hide behind high emotional loaded language. Especially, when wanting to blackmail or intimidate. I will entertain neither emotional blackmail nor attempted intimidation. We are not much interested in personality cults either. Where are these many branches, You're talking about, Ndima? Branches that only told you? Why those branches have not attempted to persuade Tshwane and branches in Tshwane (no matter the number )? Engage us structural. those who have engage us found us persuadable and persuading. The view of Tshwane is unwavering. On the issues that should top the agenda of the conference. Yes, Bloemfontein Conference and other Annual Conferences that would follow in coming years. We are not married to our proposal or recommended solutions. We will subordinate our ideas to superior ideas and we expect other members and branches to do so. We are sure that the Party must subdue self interest to its interest. We are under no illusion about the state of the Party, which is not the new state. Same state prevailing since the sixties. We do not expect a perfect Annual Conferences. Nevertheless, we make our small contribution. I must say this in closing, Tshwane passionately hates the decree. We are not reasonable on the owners of the decree. Decree is our enemy. It is unconstitutional not only in it application but its existence. It continue to manifest itself as the biggest threat to the party. Therefore, we will never recognise it. We are moving for transparent decision making, clarity of roles and structure seconding members not individual (including individual office bearer) - this is democratic centralism not dictatorship labeled democratic centralism. Revolutionary regards, Sbusiso Xaba On Sep 8, 2014 4:52 PM, 'Mbuyiselo Kantso' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress payco@googlegroups.com wrote: Comrade Ndima Since the unbanning of the PAC I have never come cross the PAC being in this pathetic state of affairs especially towards congresses. Even if there were differences in structures and NEC itself our congresses showed maturity of members and NEC towards them. Any normal human beings especially leading a party like PAC they will know that first you cannot organise a conference when there is no presidency and other elected NEC members attending. On the other hand the SG is an expelled member under the decree by his own confirmed and once regularly paraded president in the name of comrade Mphethi. On the 7th March 2014 he Narius Moloto went to court on two issues and that was first to ask the court to declare Mphethi as the party leader and Mbuyiswa Gantsu to be replaced by Narius Moloto as authorised person in the IEC. Today their once touted President has invoked the decree they are so embarrassed that he Moloto cant take it instead he fills he is above everyone but I understand humiliation he is going through. Any self-respecting branch, region or structure will never attempt to associate itself with such an arrangement. We as the Sedibeng/Vaal Region will never even entertain anything about the so called Bloemfontein Conference. Comrade Mlambo told us that during the launch of the two manifestos prior elections he sent Cde, Letlapa and Narius asking them that he suggest the launches must not be done separately. He said Cde Teenage told him that he appreciate the request but he think it came too late. Then he sent Cde Narius text him asking if the request was from him and when Cde Mlambo confirmed it was him Cde Narius just ignored him. But like I said it will be unfair to blame Cde Narius for all this mess but rather blame those who see logic and find sense in this chaos. It is not surprising when you see the behaviour of other comrades because even when the Gauteng Provincial Conference was organised you could laugh your stomach out, if you hear how things were done and how it was dismissed by the same people who organised it. The same comrades who are attending these kind of gatherings they hope they will use a crisis to emerge as leaders and it wont work. Just like the Birchwood Conference whether you are a member in good standing or not or a new member or a ghost all will be accepted as long as the people can fill the attendance register that will go in court papers for the November appeal. In short it will be all those who will attend such a conference no matter how small who will be carrying the crusade high not the SG. So let them close their ears and eyes and attend what is theirs and we continue to explore stabilising the party beyond the jamboree! IZWE LETHU! On Monday, September 8, 2014 3:02 PM,
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Cde. Ndade Before I go anywhere with your points let me make you aware of one thing that this subject does not involve you as Ndade as Sedibeng Regional Chairperson as you identified yourself so. I am talking of what happened on the court and what is recorded in the IEC whether it satisfy you or not. So for you maybe because to be called Sedibeng Regional Chairperson is something special to your heart which I wont contest because it does not fit into the debates here rest assure your tittle is secured. Just park the debate around Kantso for another day and you can raise it at Sedibeng and hope you will find joy there. Back to comrade Masoga. I think cde Masoga if you want to organise a proper caucus just have decency to speak to comrades and invite them properly and surely they will engage you with respect and explain yourself of what you hope to achieve. Then from there you can rightly point fingers to people who may sound discrediting your initiatives. On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 1:25 PM, Ndade Mxunya mnd...@yahoo.com wrote: Sons and Daughters of the soil Very interesting arguments: regarding PAC conference of September or December 2014 and the state of the PAC in general. attacking each others opinions or views MaAfrika it is very interesting to read. but first let us ask ourselves who is PAC? it is Mr Mphahlele, Mr Mphethi, Mr Moloto or NEC. why this question because most of you the arguments you alluded to, you defended a person than the organization or justifying wrongs done by the individuals instant of talking about the constitution of the PAC because all answers to the problem are there. 1, some of you the likes of Mr Kantso wanted us to accept that degree is the correct clause in the constitution, moreover we said Mr Mphahlele run and manage the party for 3 years under degree and the party did not make any impact to S.A politics its administration were dead no membership cards issued to new and old members. it is safe to say we were just PAC by name no political activism among members let alone community participation, no establishment of branches which even today we still have that challenge as the party. I agree with you all we all LOVE PAC and we all want to defend PAC THE QUESTION IS from who to its members or foreign intelligent agencies or infiltration made by internal political parties in the country or those who just want to benefit/milk the PAC from its little resource that the party get from either National Parliament or Councillorship from metros or local government sits. MaAfrika are we defending this party from who? and may anyone tell me how are we going to see if somebody his/her actions is to implement what i mentioned above. i AGREE with Cde Smallzondo, Raymond, Kutie and Cde Fihla if all we love this party let us meet under one roof, and start mentioning people by names also shame their actions if those actions violate the PAC constitution. to me some of you just makes arguments that have no solution or way forward to solve this problems, note we belong to branches we are PAC we pay our subscriptions trying to launch branches under difficult conditions, mobilized people to join PAC which we are asked by the masses what are we doing as PAC u just fight among yo selves for one sit in the National parliament. so gentleman some of you think that somebody is paying for our membership but let me tell you we are trying to build this party to do things for our selves, which some of the people who makes arguments in this network don't even have branches but they wanted to be listen to. Mr Mphethi said he wont role this party by degree unfortunately today he is telling as the party is under degree we want to take him to task whether he saying December disrespecting other NEC members we are saying he must not be a coward he must come and account to the PAC in Bloemfontein. whether you are anti Moloto, Mphethi, or Letlapa let branches decide whom they want to lead this party. for us at times makes arguments without considering majority role or democracy within the party it does not help but we are coursing cabals that are unnecessary. Cde Kantso claiming that he is representing PAC in the IEC i don't remember this Cdes elected in the NEC and I don't remember this Cde lead the Sedibeng region. We also challenge him if he can we said to him don't claim to be Chairperson of the Sedibeng region let us call all PAC members who renew their membership and subscribed to come to one meeting and elect the legitimate region we are not fighting for position we are better than that, to date he did not commit him self to such gathering. and the invitation still stand. Izwe Lethu Peace among the people Ndade Mxunya Chairperson Sedibeng Region On Sunday, September 7, 2014 11:35 PM, Mbuyiselo Kantso mbuyigan...@yahoo.com wrote: Dear Smal Zondo The main problem here is that you
Fwd: Re: [PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference
-- Forwarded message -- From: Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com Date: Sep 9, 2014 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: d: Submission of Resolutions for the National Conference To: Tongogara Ndima ndimatongog...@gmail.com Cc: Nothing has blinded me, including what you call my presidential ambition. I am still going (if delegated) or will be represented by my branch delegate to the Annual National Conference called by NEC. We will not be prevented by any decree. Those that think that we must not attend Annual Conference, should make the effort and convince us. We are going to conference not blinded but extremely clear about our recommendations to conference. We hope to persuade and convince other branches on the removal of the decree, transparency in decision making, clarity in roles and on public officers. Regards, Sbusiso Xaba On Sep 9, 2014 9:09 AM, Tongogara Ndima ndimatongog...@gmail.com wrote: Comrade Xaba We have not seen any form of you being harassed, I ask you is basic and straight forward question. Your Presidential ambitions has blurred your judgement, nonetheless good luck! Regards Ndima On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 6:57 AM, Sbusiso Xaba sbusiso.x...@gmail.com wrote: It is nice to hide behind high emotional loaded language. Especially, when wanting to blackmail or intimidate. I will entertain neither emotional blackmail nor attempted intimidation. We are not much interested in personality cults either. Where are these many branches, You're talking about, Ndima? Branches that only told you? Why those branches have not attempted to persuade Tshwane and branches in Tshwane (no matter the number )? Engage us structural. those who have engage us found us persuadable and persuading. The view of Tshwane is unwavering. On the issues that should top the agenda of the conference. Yes, Bloemfontein Conference and other Annual Conferences that would follow in coming years. We are not married to our proposal or recommended solutions. We will subordinate our ideas to superior ideas and we expect other members and branches to do so. We are sure that the Party must subdue self interest to its interest. We are under no illusion about the state of the Party, which is not the new state. Same state prevailing since the sixties. We do not expect a perfect Annual Conferences. Nevertheless, we make our small contribution. I must say this in closing, Tshwane passionately hates the decree. We are not reasonable on the owners of the decree. Decree is our enemy. It is unconstitutional not only in it application but its existence. It continue to manifest itself as the biggest threat to the party. Therefore, we will never recognise it. We are moving for transparent decision making, clarity of roles and structure seconding members not individual (including individual office bearer) - this is democratic centralism not dictatorship labeled democratic centralism. Revolutionary regards, Sbusiso Xaba On Sep 8, 2014 4:52 PM, 'Mbuyiselo Kantso' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress payco@googlegroups.com wrote: Comrade Ndima Since the unbanning of the PAC I have never come cross the PAC being in this pathetic state of affairs especially towards congresses. Even if there were differences in structures and NEC itself our congresses showed maturity of members and NEC towards them. Any normal human beings especially leading a party like PAC they will know that first you cannot organise a conference when there is no presidency and other elected NEC members attending. On the other hand the SG is an expelled member under the decree by his own confirmed and once regularly paraded president in the name of comrade Mphethi. On the 7th March 2014 he Narius Moloto went to court on two issues and that was first to ask the court to declare Mphethi as the party leader and Mbuyiswa Gantsu to be replaced by Narius Moloto as authorised person in the IEC. Today their once touted President has invoked the decree they are so embarrassed that he Moloto cant take it instead he fills he is above everyone but I understand humiliation he is going through. Any self-respecting branch, region or structure will never attempt to associate itself with such an arrangement. We as the Sedibeng/Vaal Region will never even entertain anything about the so called Bloemfontein Conference. Comrade Mlambo told us that during the launch of the two manifestos prior elections he sent Cde, Letlapa and Narius asking them that he suggest the launches must not be done separately. He said Cde Teenage told him that he appreciate the request but he think it came too late. Then he sent Cde Narius text him asking if the request was from him and when Cde Mlambo confirmed it was him Cde Narius just ignored him. But like I said it will be unfair to blame Cde Narius for all this mess but rather blame those who see logic and find sense in this chaos. It is not surprising when you see the behaviour
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Izwe lethu Once more, this debate further confirms that the September National Conference will not resolve the deepened level of feuding within the PAC, it will however worsen the situation and things cam be irreversible or untenable. For long in the PAC, PAC members and branches have being victims of two tongued characters! For example, PAC branches and members across all regions are highly divided and some are hiding their subjective interests using, statements such as this NEC member or that NEC has failed and did this or that! I strongly believe that in as much as Cde Letlapa, Cde Mpethi and Cde Moloto, might have made serious political blunders/errors, they cannot be made to be 100% liable for the entire divisions and feuding thus factionalism in the PAC. Another example, there is a PAC PEC Member in Mpumalanga organising non-members to complete forms and increase numbers for the September National Conference, are we going to blame the put this corrupt activities on either Moloto NEC Grouping for this while exanorating and calling the very same Mpumalanga PEC member a comrade. There are many examples, we can use to show that deeply, the PAC branches and members particularly comrades who are at the forefront of everything to be directly responsible and are hypocrites. We have imprisoned former APLA combatants, no action is taken to demand the release of Incarcerated APLA combatants. Surely comrades, neither Cde Letlapa nor Cde Mpethi nor Cde Moloto is stopping your branches and members to picket and organise mass protests demanding the immediate release of all the unprisoned APLA conrades. None of the two existing APLAMVA NECs have been seen in action demanding tye release of these comrades, but today APLAMVA NEC comrades have a moral ground to point finger and identify failers of the PAC NEC Members. I find the extent of most comrades as being hypocrits, as shocking and also this explains the deep seated problems we are facing in the PAC. All PECs and RECs including all component structures are docile, dormant and moribound, relatively excluding PASMA with a serious qualification! There are and has been so many caucases ever since 2007/8 to date, but every caucuse have yielded no tangible results but the situation has worsened because the current crop of some PAC members and those with leadeship ambitions are highly unprincipled and determined to break any law just to secure positions be they at the REC, PEC and NEC. PAC Branches and members have abondaned principles and the correct political line as enshrined in the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto including all Basic Documents. A lot in the party is from branch level to members to national leadership is totally wrong and rotten! Gone are the principles in the PAC, as others argue to justify their conduct they claim that people do eat principles. First task should be PAC branches and members should resolve their differences at a regional level first and unite! Then provincial inclusive meetings should be organised to consolidate the unity achieved at regional level! Internal feuding is driven mainly by some members misleading some branches if branches and members can converge and unite, then it follows the NEC become subjected to a full accountability and direction from a united party membership through a constitutional conference and congress. Lets start a party reunification programmes from branch to regional level as first phase! Then second phase being provincial, then we finalise by an inclusive national conference! Shango lashu Nkrumah Sent from Samsung tablet Mbuyiselo Kantso mbuyigan...@yahoo.com wrote: Cde. Ndade Before I go anywhere with your points let me make you aware of one thing that this subject does not involve you as Ndade as Sedibeng Regional Chairperson as you identified yourself so. I am talking of what happened on the court and what is recorded in the IEC whether it satisfy you or not. So for you maybe because to be called Sedibeng Regional Chairperson is something special to your heart which I wont contest because it does not fit into the debates here rest assure your tittle is secured. Just park the debate around Kantso for another day and you can raise it at Sedibeng and hope you will find joy there. Back to comrade Masoga. I think cde Masoga if you want to organise a proper caucus just have decency to speak to comrades and invite them properly and surely they will engage you with respect and explain yourself of what you hope to achieve. Then from there you can rightly point fingers to people who may sound discrediting your initiatives. On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 1:25 PM, Ndade Mxunya mnd...@yahoo.com wrote: Sons and Daughters of the soil Very interesting arguments: regarding PAC conference of September or December 2014 and the state of the PAC in general. attacking each others opinions or views MaAfrika it is very interesting to read.
