Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[me.grimm]

im really just firing emails off too quick this morn without really knowing
whats going on

permission denied error. i assume because it is trying to export to
~/Applications/Pd.app/Content/Resources with the [; pd plugin-dispatch
::patch2svg::exportall{ message

anyway to save to patch directory with message?

exporting to SVG: svg-export.pd.x10045eb00.svg
(Tcl) UNHANDLED ERROR: couldn't open "svg-export.pd.x10045eb00.svg":
permission denied
while executing
"open $path w"
(procedure "can2svg::canvas2file" line 14)
invoked from within
"can2svg::canvas2file [tkcanvas_name $mytoplevel] $filename"
(procedure "export" line 2)
invoked from within
"export $w $name"
(procedure "::patch2svg::exportall" line 16)
invoked from within
"$callback [ lrange $args 1 end ]"
("foreach" body line 2)
invoked from within
"foreach callback $::pd_connect::plugin_dispatch_receivers($receiver) {
   $callback [ lrange $args 1 end ]
   }"
invoked from within
"if [ info exists ::pd_connect::plugin_dispatch_receivers($receiver) ] {
   foreach callback $::pd_connect::plugin_dispatch_receivers($receiver)
{
..."
(procedure "pdtk_plugin_dispatch" line 3)
invoked from within
"pdtk_plugin_dispatch ::patch2svg::exportall"
("uplevel" body line 1)
invoked from within
"uplevel #0 $docmds"

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 8:23 AM me.grimm  wrote:

> >> couple of .svg files in your directory.
>
> I assume in the patch2svg-plugin directory? And no... no *.svg's
>
> >> that it shuts down Pd without a warning
>
> ha tricky... :) yeah i didnt see that.
>
> I was though getting a tcl error that I got a screen shot of but am no
> longer able to reproduce for some reason. i think the flash of pink before
> closing led me to believe pd crashed rather than the [; pd quit{ message.
>
> attached.
>
>
> m
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 6:01 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
>
>> On 7/4/19 9:25 PM, me.grimm wrote:
>> >>> IOhannes patch2svg exporter.
>> >
>> >
>> > btw the autoexport.pd patch crashes pd when I open it (macOs 10.14.5 pd
>> > 0.49.1).
>> l
>> are you sure it crashes?
>>
>> >
>> > here is output running from cli with -verbose:
>> >
>> >
>> > w .x100330c60
>> >
>> > wname autoexport.pd
>> >
>> > name autoexport.pd.x100330c60.svg
>> >
>> > template %s%x.svg
>>
>> which looks good to me.
>> you might notice that after opening the patch, you suddenly have a
>> couple of .svg files in your directory.
>>
>> the autoexport.pd patch is just a demonstration on how one could use the
>> patch2svg plugin to fully automate the conversion of Pd patches to SVGs
>> (without user interaction; e.g. from a script).
>>
>> i admit that it is somewhat unexpected (and undocumented) for a patch,
>> that it shuts down Pd without a warning
>>
>> gfmasdr
>> IOhannes
>>
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>
> --
> 
> m.e.grimm, m.f.a, ed.m.
> cornell u., tc3
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> 
>


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cornell u., tc3
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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[William Huston]

I wish there was a way to include in the standard build a rendering of
*all* supplied docs as PDF or HTML, so I can look something up if I am
mobile and not near a machine with PD installed.

The existing x1.html (etc) files are great, but there's a lot of stuff
missing.

thanks

On Jun 30, 2019 1:52 AM, "Miller Puckette"  wrote:

To pd dev -

I'm struggling to finish the design of a slew-limiting low-pass filter
(slop~) to add to Pd vanilla to make ti easier to make dynamics processors
and soft limiters (and hopefully other stuff).  The usual help window scheme
isn't adequate to describe how to use it, so I want to make some way to
format
Latex documentation and link to it from Pd help files.  My current plan is:

Make Pd able to open files in the native OS (maybe via a new "pdcontrol"
object that would issue system commands and be extensible to get various
notifications in the future).

Put detailed, latex-compiled documentation somewhere in the Pd distro,
probably in 1.manual as HTML files, but perhaps as PDFs in addition or
instead.

But I don't think it's a good idea to put latex compilation in the Pd
compile chain, so I _think_ the practical way to do this is to put both
latex xources and HTML targets in the Pd distro.  This would be ugly (having
to check latex output into the git repo as if it were source) but I don't
see any good way to do otherwise without making it very difficult for others
to compile Pd using the autotools and/or the plain makefiles in pd/src.

For the moment I'm planning to just put an attempt at documentation for
slop~
on my own page and point to it from the slop~ help file (which will require
fixing Pd to be able to open URLs).  But eventually I want to be able to
include the full doc int eh Pd release.

Any advice would be very helpful!

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 7/4/19 9:25 PM, me.grimm wrote:
>>> IOhannes patch2svg exporter.
> 
> 
> btw the autoexport.pd patch crashes pd when I open it (macOs 10.14.5 pd
> 0.49.1). 
l
are you sure it crashes?

> 
> here is output running from cli with -verbose:
> 
> 
> w .x100330c60
> 
> wname autoexport.pd
> 
> name autoexport.pd.x100330c60.svg
> 
> template %s%x.svg

which looks good to me.
you might notice that after opening the patch, you suddenly have a
couple of .svg files in your directory.

the autoexport.pd patch is just a demonstration on how one could use the
patch2svg plugin to fully automate the conversion of Pd patches to SVGs
(without user interaction; e.g. from a script).

i admit that it is somewhat unexpected (and undocumented) for a patch,
that it shuts down Pd without a warning

gfmasdr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Lucas Cordiviola]

If the only show stopper for HTML is "typeset equations in native HTML" there's 
a workaround:

https://www.mathjax.org/

https://github.com/mathjax/MathJax

the only gotcha is that the "typeset equations" wont render on an offline 
browser.

Works by just including :



in the  of the document.

Its fully documented and looks it is going to be there.  (if for some reason we 
need the local files it takes 40Mb)

It might be just what we want.


?

IOhannes ?


Test code:

'''










big heading 
 h2 smaller heading 

 paragraph ... when \( x < y \) we have ...

 paragraph 2 .. \[ \sum a b \]

 paragraph 3 .. \(\sum a b \)






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On 7/2/2019 11:13 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:

Looks like the best thing will be to use either latex or markdown, and
include both the latex/markdown source and an HTML compiled version of
the doc in the git repo.  The doc will doubtless contain images of
patch fragments, taken from the help files, in a way similar to my
book (http://msp.ucsd.edu/techniques.htm).

cheers
M

for the images.  (Unless it's feasible to unify that with the help
On Tue, Jul 02, 2019 at 07:11:35AM +, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:



On 7/1/2019 5:46 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:


i*strongly*  suggest to
- have **all** the sources (for*anything*  generated, including images)
in the git-repository
- allow to build all artifacts automatically?? (via the build-system)



I fail to see anything we can do to auto-generate single image files
from 1 or more LaTex file/s. This should be carefully and manually
handled by the author or the maintainer. There could be one master LaTex
file containing the code for each image if the source is to be stored:

''
figure 0.1.0
$saras \$whatever ...
figure 0.1.1
$ssgdsdg \$whatever ...
''

Since this is not automatic Miller should probably be in favor (and I
understand) of just writing everything on LaTex files instead of html.
Since I don't know how many "math formulas" are needed I don't know what
to say.



:)


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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Giulio Moro via Pd-dev]

> the other one being my patch2svg GUI plugin (see deken), which uses the 
> tcl/tk engine to create a snapshot from a running patch, rather than trying 
> to re-implement the GUI engine of Pd. 

I seemed to remember there had been some discussion around this ... definitely 
a much better option than external "visualizers", so apologies for the noise.

IOhannes, we have made a few fixes to pd-fileutils, but never got around to 
making a pull request to sebpiq (aslo because we only changed the ""compliled"" 
file, and not the source). They fix a number of issue (e.g.: comments starting 
with numbers, wrong display of IP addresses, issue with [declare], and some 
escaping stuff). Feel free to grab them from here:
https://github.com/BelaPlatform/Bela/commits/master/IDE/public/js/pd-fileutils.js

 On Monday, 1 July 2019, 12:37:48 BST, IOhannes m zmoelnig  
wrote: 

On 01.07.19 12:53, Giulio Moro via Pd-dev wrote:

>> IIRC, there is some plugin which converts Pd patches to SVG graphics, so 
>> that could be one way to go. 
> 
> You may be talking of pd-fileutils?  https://github.com/sebpiq/pd-fileutils/


the other one being my patch2svg GUI plugin (see deken), which uses the
tcl/tk engine to create a snapshot from a running patch, rather than
trying to re-implement the GUI engine of Pd.

i'm using the pd-fileutils for our Pd-enabled pastebin [1], but in
general i prefer the much more accurate rendering of the patch2svg
plugin (GUI-objects, GOPs,...)


[1] pastie.iem.at

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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Christof Ressi]

ha, thanks! have to try it out!

> Gesendet: Montag, 01. Juli 2019 um 13:37 Uhr
> Von: "IOhannes m zmoelnig" 
> An: pd-dev@lists.iem.at
> Betreff: Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?
>
> On 01.07.19 12:53, Giulio Moro via Pd-dev wrote:
> >> IIRC, there is some plugin which converts Pd patches to SVG graphics, so 
> >> that could be one way to go. 
> > 
> > You may be talking of pd-fileutils?  https://github.com/sebpiq/pd-fileutils/
> 
> the other one being my patch2svg GUI plugin (see deken), which uses the
> tcl/tk engine to create a snapshot from a running patch, rather than
> trying to re-implement the GUI engine of Pd.
> 
> i'm using the pd-fileutils for our Pd-enabled pastebin [1], but in
> general i prefer the much more accurate rendering of the patch2svg
> plugin (GUI-objects, GOPs,...)
> 
> 
> [1] pastie.iem.at
> 
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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Christof Ressi]

One the one hand I agree with IOhannes that it's good to have the sources, on 
the other hand I also agree with Lucas that HTML suits itself very well for 
documentation. As he said, things like formulas can be included as images - 
which can be shipped as pre-built artifacts, or built from source, or both.

I would even go a bit further and say that it would be great if *all* Pd 
documentation was also available in HTML so it can be viewed in the browser and 
put on the homepage. IIRC, there is some plugin which converts Pd patches to 
SVG graphics, so that could be one way to go. 

In Supercollider, for example, all documentation is HTML, so you can read 
everything online: http://doc.sccode.org/. They also have their own small 
markup language for easy generation of class documentation. This is maybe not 
so relevant for Pd, as help files are just patches, but we could think about 
adding meta information to help files (e.g. short description, creation 
arguments, inlets, outlets), so we can autogenerate a short HTML 
reference/summary. Just thinking out loud. I have to say I really appreciate 
the documentation style of Supercollider and I think Pd could adapt some ideas.

Christof

> Gesendet: Montag, 01. Juli 2019 um 10:46 Uhr
> Von: "IOhannes m zmoelnig" 
> An: pd-dev@lists.iem.at
> Betreff: Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?
>
> On 01.07.19 04:13, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
> > On 6/30/2019 10:41 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > 
> >> The gotcha is that I can't find a way to typeset equations in native 
> >> HTML...
> > 
> > How about making the rendered image (of the math equation) with 
> > https://www.codecogs.com/latex/eqneditor.php and include the image in 
> > the HTML doc. (isn't this is what Latex do when it generates an HTML 
> > output ?)
> 
> no, LaTeX doesn't rely on a 3rd party service eating all your data in
> order to create nifty images.
> 
> i *strongly* suggest to
> - have **all** the sources (for *anything* generated, including images)
> in the git-repository
> - allow to build all artifacts automatically¹ (via the build-system)
> 
> i'd prefer if the repository *only* contained the sources (and no
> artifacts), but understand that it is sometimes impractical.
> 
> 
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
> 
> 
> ¹ unless *you* volunteer to become a build-bot waiting to upload LaTeX
> sources to whatever webservice to create images in a timely manner.
> 
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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 30.06.19 22:24, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>> But I don't think it's a good idea to put latex compilation in the Pd
>>> compile chain,
>> why?
>>
> ATM I can (and do) compile Pd using only "make", "cc" and "ln" - trying to
> keep the dependencies to an absolute minimum.
> 

hence my suggestion to make the building of the documentation optional.
however, it nevertheless needs to be built at least once, and if you
want to keep your *release workflow* to tools like "ln" (and "cp" and
"mkdir" :-)), the documentation artifacts probably have to be kept in
the repository.

in any case, i'd like to be able to create a bit-by-bit identical
documentation using automated tools from the doc's source-code.

fgmasdr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Lucas Cordiviola]

On 6/30/2019 1:05 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:

> Any advice would be very helpful!


Stay in the HTML format.

Following https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_basic.asp anyone can come 
up with an object documentation.

HTML is the way to go. No need for latex, md, or whatever. HTML is 
really simple and works on any computer and is very straightforward to 
maintain and enhance. Most importantly it does not add compiling dependency.

*







 big heading 
 h2 smaller heading 

 paragraph

 paragraph 2




*


Having the ability to open local or remote URLs  is a total Pd enhancer.


:)


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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Lucas Cordiviola]

On 6/30/2019 10:41 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:

> The gotcha is that I can't find a way to typeset equations in native HTML...

How about making the rendered image (of the math equation) with 
https://www.codecogs.com/latex/eqneditor.php and include the image in 
the HTML doc. (isn't this is what Latex do when it generates an HTML 
output ?)

?

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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Miller Puckette]

On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 08:30:40PM +0200, IOhannes m zm??lnig wrote:
> On 6/30/19 6:05 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > Any advice would be very helpful!
> 
> personally, i'd go for markdown as the source format and use pandoc to
> compile it to the final documentation.
> 
> reasons:
> - the source document is human readable (with a somewhat meaningful
> visual layout, as opposed to LaTeX)
> - can be compiled to LaTeX (and can include LaTeX-snippets, e.g. for
> complicated formulae).
> 
> thus, the repository *could* only contain the source-code of the
> documentation (md), which would still be a meaningful (although not as
> nicely laid out) documentation for the power-user who uses a git clone.
> the documentation would still need to be compiled during the release
> phase though (which i don't see as a big problem; i'd make this step
> optional though).
> 
Cool, I'll investigate this.  It might be cleaner than latex2html.  Meanwhile,
the original reason I made the "manual" in HTML was so that it could be
easy to browse.  Now that PDF readers are universally available and PDFs
can contain links, it might be better to distribute the doc in PDF.  This
would be possible either via latex or (I guess) pandoc.

> 
> > But I don't think it's a good idea to put latex compilation in the Pd
> > compile chain,
> 
> why?
> 

ATM I can (and do) compile Pd using only "make", "cc" and "ln" - trying to
keep the dependencies to an absolute minimum.

> > Make Pd able to open files in the native OS (maybe via a new
> > "pdcontrol" object that would issue system commands
> 
> afaik, the way to "open files" (using the default application, which is
> what we really want here), is highly system specific.
> e.g. cf the `::pd_menucommands::menu_openfile` (in
> tcl/pd_menucommands.tcl) which (kind of) implements this already, and
> which i would probably use *as is*.
> 
Yep.  Just needs to be available from within Pd vanilla :)

> gfmdsar
> IOhannes
> 




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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Miller Puckette]

> 
> For the moment I'm planning to just put an attempt at documentation for
> > slop~
> > on my own page and point to it from the slop~ help file (which will require
> > fixing Pd to be able to open URLs).
> 
> 
> This is what I don't get. How would you "fix Pd" to open URLs? With the new
> [pdcontrol] object?
> 
> cheers

Yep.  At the moment, I'm thinking of having it take an "open" message to
open a file in the OS, a "fetch" or "httpget" or something to open a URL,
and a "system" to run a program asynchronously and return its standard
output as Pd messages.  Maybe also a message to open a program and keep
it open so that Pd can send it stuff as input and collect the output.  All
this would be kicked up to teh Tcl/Tk layer, so none of it would be "real-time".

Also high time to be able to get the patch's containing directory using
only Pd vanilla.  I think there are 10 or 20 other things this object should
eventually do!

cheers
M



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Re: [PD-dev] formatting HTML doc in Pd distro?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em dom, 30 de jun de 2019 às 02:52, Miller Puckette  escreveu:

> To pd dev -
>
> I'm struggling to finish the design of a slew-limiting low-pass filter
> (slop~) to add to Pd vanilla
>

Yay!


> Make Pd able to open files in the native OS (maybe via a new "pdcontrol"
> object that would issue system commands and be extensible to get various
> notifications in the future).
>

Yay! x 2

For the moment I'm planning to just put an attempt at documentation for
> slop~
> on my own page and point to it from the slop~ help file (which will require
> fixing Pd to be able to open URLs).


This is what I don't get. How would you "fix Pd" to open URLs? With the new
[pdcontrol] object?

cheers
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