Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Patrice Colet]

Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
> On Sun, 9 Sep 2007, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I can understand how that might be frustrating. That's why I
>> really enjoy keeping my personal settings in the .pdrc file on OS X or
>> Linux. With windows, this isn't an option, but a .bat file works well.

With windows we can change options with editing the registry.
and a .bat doesn't work well because of the interfering registry entries.

>> I definitely agree that the settings department is in need of some
>> revision, it's just a matter of someone with the know-how, free time
>> and determination to set it right.

  Some are able to compile after getting knowledge about the configure 
options and then have severe chances of having a well configured 
software, some doesn't want to use a compiler for installing,
and have a lot of chances to miss a lot of features proposed by the 
software, through different kinds of installing processes.

> We don't even agree on what is right. Some want it more 
> platform-dependent, some want it more platform-independent.

  An optimized plateform-dependent version would implie the use of 
different application programming interfaces (eg: gtk for gnome, qt for 
kde, cocoa for OSX, etc...), anyone would like to go on that way?

>  Some are ok 
> with path dialogs that require people to type full folder names and 
> won't allow more than 10 folders... some are not ok with that... etc
> 


I guess that's why many different softwares proposes different options 
during the install process.
  Also I don't know how these choices could be implemented through an 
installer.


  My point is that pd is necessarily messing with configuration files 
like pdrc or pdsettings that are inevitably interfering between 
different pd versions, and making impossible the clean and easy 
development of stand-alone applications.



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Re: [PD] my first extension, FINISHED

[Chris McCormick]

On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 09:04:43PM +0200, Steffen wrote:
> This relates to your question. There is a tendency in thinking that  
> "objects" that can be build by using pure Pd object are better kept  
> build in pure Pd objects rather then coded as an external. That said,  
> it's not a universal truth. Taste, ease and/or speed are important  
> factors here.

In this particular case of Andre's legato object, I see no positive
reason whatsoever for it being an external. I see several positive
reasons for it being an abstraction:

1. Anyone who knows how to make Pd patches can modify it.
2. It would run without modifications under anyone's Pd, instantly.
3. Nobody would need to compile anything.
4. It probably would have been quicker to make in Pd than in code.

Best,

Chris.

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Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox

[Batuhan Bozkurt]

pat wrote:
> Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit :
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before 
>> I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. 
>> But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and 
>> after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature 
>> that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox".
>>
>
>> Thanks,
>> Batuhan
>
> hello, you might be interested about this:
>
> http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData
>
> in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro 
> feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox.
>
Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about it. 
But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first release 
in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better than 
anything for sure!

So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any other 
suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I 
mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then 
I'll have to wait for sure.

Thanks!
Batuhan

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Re: [PD] [Pd] Building OSCx on 64-bit Debian

[Charles Henry]

Something jumps out at me:
../libOSC/libOSC.a
this should be -L../libOSC -lOSC  (that's a little-L, on the second one there)

I can't remember... what's the name of that command you use to list
the libraries that a binary links to?  (I'm sure I've used it once
before, but not everyday :)


On 9/8/07, Chuckk Hubbard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi.  I acquired a p5 glove, and the Pd interface I found for it relies on
> OSCx.  I've been trying to build it, having added -fPIC to it, but I get
> this:
> make[1]: Entering directory
> `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src'
> cc -Wl,-export_dynamic -shared -o sendOSC.pd_linux sendOSC.o htmsocket.o
> OSC-system-dependent.o -L../../../pd/bin -lpd -lc -lm ../libOSC/libOSC.a
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpd
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> make[1]: *** [sendOSC.pd_linux] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory
> `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src'
> make: *** [all] Error 2
>
>
> I added several paths to the INCLUDES line in src/Makefile, as the guy
> suggested, with the path to a Pd src folder, but still it can't find this
> -lpd.  I read man ld and tried searching for any kind of *libpd*, * pd.a*,
> or *pd.so* on my entire hard drive, and none of them exist.  Should I
> replace this -lpd with something else?  I tried removing it, and it built a
> faulty set of OSCx objects that don't work.
>
> Thanks.
> -Chuckk
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
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Re: [PD] pd-convention papers

[Andy Farnell]

Thanks very much Alexandre.

Andy

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:59:17 -0400 (EDT)
"Alexandre Castonguay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Andy Farnell's paper is now online:
> 
> http://artengine.ca/~catalogue-pd/PDCON-2007-FARNELL.pdf
> 
> A bientot,
> 
> Alexandre
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday 09 September 2007 20:34:00 Alexandre Castonguay wrote:
> > Hello Andy,
> >
> > Please send it to me and I'll add it at once :-).
> >
> > Merci,
> >
> > Alexandre
> >
> > > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:43:06 +0200
> > >
> > > Steffen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> On 23/08/2007, at 15.13, Alexandre Castonguay wrote:
> > >> > The papers for the convention are online at :
> > >> > http://artengine.ca/~catalogue-pd/
> > >>
> > >> Thanks! It's nice to be able to read them, even though one weren't
> > >> there. Two questions though:
> > >
> > > Dunno if my footsteps one got included but it's not in that list.
> > >
> > > andy
> > >
> > > --
> > > Use the source
> > >
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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:


Yes, I can understand how that might be frustrating. That's why I
really enjoy keeping my personal settings in the .pdrc file on OS X or
Linux. With windows, this isn't an option, but a .bat file works well.
I definitely agree that the settings department is in need of some
revision, it's just a matter of someone with the know-how, free time
and determination to set it right.


We don't even agree on what is right. Some want it more 
platform-dependent, some want it more platform-independent. Some are ok 
with path dialogs that require people to type full folder names and won't 
allow more than 10 folders... some are not ok with that... etc


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Re: [PD] pd-convention papers

[Alexandre Castonguay]

Hi all,

Andy Farnell's paper is now online:

http://artengine.ca/~catalogue-pd/PDCON-2007-FARNELL.pdf

A bientot,

Alexandre



On Sunday 09 September 2007 20:34:00 Alexandre Castonguay wrote:
> Hello Andy,
>
> Please send it to me and I'll add it at once :-).
>
> Merci,
>
> Alexandre
>
> > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:43:06 +0200
> >
> > Steffen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On 23/08/2007, at 15.13, Alexandre Castonguay wrote:
> >> > The papers for the convention are online at :
> >> > http://artengine.ca/~catalogue-pd/
> >>
> >> Thanks! It's nice to be able to read them, even though one weren't
> >> there. Two questions though:
> >
> > Dunno if my footsteps one got included but it's not in that list.
> >
> > andy
> >
> > --
> > Use the source
> >
> > ___
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Re: [PD] Multitouch lowtech

[Kyle Klipowicz]

Now I'm just waiting for Kim to introduce it over on .microsound,
without mentioning boingboing.

;-)

~Kyle

On 9/9/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo,
>
> oki, it was on boing so everyone here has already seen it, but still,
> that's a mighty impressive lowtech solution to the multitouch
> interface hype: http://blog.medallia.com/2007/06/dyesight.html
>
> Shouldn't this Just Work(tm) with Gem's [pix_multiblob]?
>
> Ciao
> --
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Kyle Klipowicz]

Yes, I can understand how that might be frustrating. That's why I
really enjoy keeping my personal settings in the .pdrc file on OS X or
Linux. With windows, this isn't an option, but a .bat file works well.
I definitely agree that the settings department is in need of some
revision, it's just a matter of someone with the know-how, free time
and determination to set it right.

~Kyle

On 9/9/07, pat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kyle Klipowicz a écrit :
> > Until then, we just can't really expect the same crowd that
> > Pd-extended is marketed for to know much about cvs and setting up the
> > paths and stuff. It's better to take the high road and avoid elitist
> > isolationism and make things easy as possible for new users to dive
> > into: Pd needs adherents to thrive and become a serious competitor of
> > similar commercial options.
>
> > ~Kyle
>
>   My one half cent, everytime I give some try to a new pd-extended it
> messes up all my pd stand-alone applications because of the freaking
> pdsettings, that is installed by default, without giving user choice for
> installing this evil file or not.
>


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Re: [PD] (OT) periodic jack xruns in every 20 minutes

[Derek Holzer]

Entirely possible that it was too long ago... I tangled with these 
issues in 2002-3...

d.

Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote:
> 
>> Check the linux-audio-user list archives regarding the filesystem you 
>> use with JACK. I recall that ext3 gives huge problems, 
> 
> That must have been long ago: ext3 currently (i.e. with a current
> kernel) is one of the recommended filesystems to use, while reiserfs
> is a latency hog and should be avoided. 
> 
> Ciao

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 102:
"Just carry on"

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Re: [PD] pd-convention papers

[Alexandre Castonguay]

Hello Andy,

Please send it to me and I'll add it at once :-).

Merci,

Alexandre



> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:43:06 +0200
> Steffen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 23/08/2007, at 15.13, Alexandre Castonguay wrote:
>>
>> > The papers for the convention are online at :
>> > http://artengine.ca/~catalogue-pd/
>>
>> Thanks! It's nice to be able to read them, even though one weren't
>> there. Two questions though:
>>
>
> Dunno if my footsteps one got included but it's not in that list.
>
> andy
>
> --
> Use the source
>
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Re: [PD] pd-convention papers

[Andy Farnell]

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:43:06 +0200
Steffen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On 23/08/2007, at 15.13, Alexandre Castonguay wrote:
> 
> > The papers for the convention are online at :
> > http://artengine.ca/~catalogue-pd/
> 
> Thanks! It's nice to be able to read them, even though one weren't  
> there. Two questions though:
> 

Dunno if my footsteps one got included but it's not in that list.

andy

-- 
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Re: [PD] [Pd] Building OSCx on 64-bit Debian

[Martin Peach]

Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
> On 9/8/07, *Ken Restivo* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
> wrote:
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 06:48:52PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
> > Hi.  I acquired a p5 glove, and the Pd interface I found for it
> relies on
> > OSCx.  I've been trying to build it, having added -fPIC to it,
> but I get
> > this:
> > make[1]: Entering directory
> `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src'
> > cc -Wl,-export_dynamic -shared -o sendOSC.pd_linux sendOSC.o
> htmsocket.o
> > OSC-system-dependent.o -L../../../pd/bin -lpd -lc -lm
> ../libOSC/libOSC.a
> > /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpd
> > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> > make[1]: *** [sendOSC.pd_linux] Error 1
> > make[1]: Leaving directory
> `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src'
> > make: *** [all] Error 2
> >
> >
> > I added several paths to the INCLUDES line in src/Makefile, as
> the guy
> > suggested, with the path to a Pd src folder, but still it can't
> find this
> > -lpd.  I read man ld and tried searching for any kind of
> *libpd*, * pd.a*, or
> > *pd.so* on my entire hard drive, and none of them exist.  Should
> I replace
> > this -lpd with something else?  I tried removing it, and it
> built a faulty
> > set of OSCx objects that don't work.
> >
>
> The linker uses -L not -I to determine its paths.
>
> Try -L/usr/wherever/pd/libs/are/located ?
>
>
> Hi Ken, thanks for the suggestion.  It doesn't seem to make a 
> difference.  There are a series of -L flags and a series of -I flags, 
> so I'm guessing whoever wrote it knew the difference.  But I tried both.
> I also tried removing the -lpd flag, since, again, there is no file on 
> my system that would satisfy it, and it built dumpOSC.pd_linux, 
> sendOSC.pd_linux, and OSCroute.pd_linux, but Pd cannot create a 
> dumpOSC object, while it does create the other two...

So it _can_ build sendOSC.pd_linux when you remove the -lpd flag? That 
makes sense because there is no need for the pd library if you're 
building a dynamic shared library.
The dumpOSC problem may relate to it's use of type-punning that assumes 
32 bit floats and ints. I changed unpackOSC to use an int/float union 
instead.
See
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1788587&group_id=55736&atid=478070


Martin


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Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox

[pat]

Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit :
> Hello,
> 
> I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before I 
> switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. But 
> there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and after 
> all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature that was 
> made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox".
> 

> Thanks,
> Batuhan

hello, you might be interested about this:

http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData

in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro 
feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox.

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Re: [PD] reminder for tuesday

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Next meeting is Tuesday, Sept. 11th
* 10.00 Pacific Time
* 13.00 Eastern Time
* 18.00 UTC (GMT)
* 19.00 Central European
* 20.00 Eastern European


Either you mean BST (British Summer Time) instead of UTC, or you mean 
that UTC is at 17.00


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Re: [PD] CONVENTION /// was Re: some images...

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007, marius schebella wrote:


I think that is true not only for code, but also for patches.


I don't make a distinction between patches and "real code".

atm automatic testing is still very complicated to do (at least I would not 
know how to write it). but testing could also be "manual".


No, it should be pretty clear that it can't be manual. At least it should 
be semi-automatic: the patch guides the person and shows results that are 
easy to verify for the person but hard to do for the computer.


I really like the idea to start patching with a help patch where the 
object inlets and outlets and functions/features are defined before 
starting with the external itself. maybe that also would make patches 
more shareable... marius.


This works if you have something specific in mind. If you are making 
exploratory programming, this can't work. However, in the process of 
making exploratory programming you may encounter a pattern that you want 
to turn into an abstraction, just like when doing any programming. At this 
point it becomes less exploratory and more defined... well, maybe you are 
not sure about how the abstraction would be used yet, but that's normal; 
at least you know where you're heading. What I mean by exploratory 
programming, is to noodle around with your program until you find 
something you want.


One annoying thing with Pd, is that before you make the help patch, you 
have to make at least a skeleton of the class you want to make, so that 
you have inlets and outlets to connect in your help-patch or test-patch. 
It goes a bit against the spirit of "test-first", but it's not a big loss.


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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[pat]

Kyle Klipowicz a écrit :
> Until then, we just can't really expect the same crowd that
> Pd-extended is marketed for to know much about cvs and setting up the
> paths and stuff. It's better to take the high road and avoid elitist
> isolationism and make things easy as possible for new users to dive
> into: Pd needs adherents to thrive and become a serious competitor of
> similar commercial options.

> ~Kyle

  My one half cent, everytime I give some try to a new pd-extended it 
messes up all my pd stand-alone applications because of the freaking 
pdsettings, that is installed by default, without giving user choice for 
installing this evil file or not.

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Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

You'll want to check out Desire Data, (it's alpha though).  Lots of  
great ideas in it.
.hc

On Sep 9, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before I
> switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. But
> there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and after
> all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature that was
> made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox".
>
> It basically allows you to use your keyboard to connect objects to  
> each
> other. For example, if you select n number of objects alligned from  
> top
> to bottom and press "c", all of their left inlets and outlets will be
> connected in the same "top to bottom" fashion. There are also shortcut
> keys for connecting an outlet to multiple inlets of another object 
> (these
> all work from top to bottom) and vice versa and bunch of other  
> features.
> I only miss the "c" shortcut and these "outlet to multiple ins and
> inverse of it" features actually. Extensive mousing makes me feel
> uncomfortable and sometimes causes pain so those shortcuts were making
> my life a lot easier.
>
> I have some programming experience but they were always personal
> projects and I don't think I can understand PD internals well(C code).
> To achieve such functionality in PD what would my options be? I think
> all the gui is handled in pd.tk file with Tcl/Tk(I may be badly  
> mistaken
> though) so would this be a matter of adding some stuff to tickle
> scripts? Or is it impossible to do without patching the C code? If  
> I can
> find a feasible way to do it, I might work on it as the practicality
> that is gonna bring would be very huge(for me anyways).
>
> Any clues on the possibility of this addition?
> Here is the youtube video of the max toolbox thingy:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqF9hDNoJk
>
> I'm pretty sure that most of you know about that but if you've never
> heard of it, then there is the link.
>
> Thanks,
> Batuhan
>
>
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Re: [PD] reminder for tuesday

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Sep 9, 2007, at 5:05 PM, Steffen wrote:

>
> On 09/09/2007, at 19.33, marius schebella wrote:
>
>> could someone repeat when and where the chat session for pd
>> documentation will be on tuesday?
>
> It's nice to know that such meeting/chat has been meaning to happen.
> - I've not come across it on this list, hence i guess it's been
> fostered at the convention...

Yup, you are correct, I think we all forgot to post it to the list.   
Here's the info:

http://puredata.org/dev/pddp

Next meeting is Tuesday, Sept. 11th

 * 10.00 Pacific Time
 * 13.00 Eastern Time
 * 18.00 UTC (GMT)
 * 19.00 Central European
 * 20.00 Eastern European

.hc


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Re: [PD] next conv in Brasil... meaning business

[Ed Kelly]

Hey alex, good to see you in Montreal,

I think the small things happen all the time, at least that's what we strive 
for I hope. Meanwhile, the big thing can happen too in 2009. One thing I think 
would be a really good idea is if there is some kind of map around when things 
happen - the conferences always happen at about the same time every year. I've 
been at the ICMC twice now and I intend to go again, but that's always the last 
week of August or first week of September (for example).

Really, conferences are far too short -- and busy. If we can find a two-week 
window in the international conference schedule (ISMIR. ICMC. Pris Ars 
Electronica, NIME etc) then we could do it then.

Balancing this, those of us who have academic commitments need the summer to 
finalize our work, often, so maybe late July/Early August would be a good time?

But---this is two years away. We still need to be precise about it though, 
because funding agencies are keen to have timetables/schedules etc.

And I was gutted I didn't go to the party...but I'd love to see you all in Sao 
Paulo in two years time...

Best,
Ed



PORRES <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> If it is a problem to get university support

Is actually the opposite. I Believe we could get much more involvement and 
fundings from it here in Brasil! :)

> You don't need to have the developers, you 
> need people who stick together

Sure, Cool... And as I said, it's nice to have some local meetings before an 
international one... and the goal must be gathering people! Users, whatever... 
like you described.

> It's better to organise the schedule so that 
> people organised in one thing aren't likely 
> to be interested in the other thing that 
> happens at the same time

hmmm, yeah, the event in Montreal could be much longer if things werent all at 
the same time... 

We could have here a longer event. If it is "smaller", things could be not 
simultaneous... one way or another, there should be plenty space and material
 for a Convention here...

Cheers
alexandre torres porres



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Re: [PD] paths and patches [was: Re: polyWaveSynth issue]

[Kyle Klipowicz]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up Frank! It's a bit of a tangle, but you
gave a nice explanation.

Messing with paths can be a real deterrence for people just looking to
briefly demo a patch. It looks like the easiest solution for Phil is
definitely to include these abs in a subdirectory then.

~Kyle

On 9/9/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo,
> Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote:
>
> > Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> > > Does Pd search the patch's folder first for all non-native
> > > objects before parsing the path?
> >
> > I was wondering that same thing.  If not, this method wouldn't work very
> > consistently.
>
> Pd does search the current directory of a patch before other
> directories, but that won't help polypoly.pd to find an abstraction in
> that directory, because polypoly.pd is in a different directory and
> there is no polywavesynth.pd there! To make polypoly.pd find
> polywavesynth.pd, the directory of polywavesynth.pd must be in the
> path!
>
> Anybody still following? ;) I admit, that this is a very confusing
> issue, so lets use graphics and an example:
>
> .
> |-- main
> |   |-- an_abstraction.pd
> |   `-- test.pd  - uses [../main/using_an_abstraction]
> `-- myabs
> `-- using_an_abstraction.pd - uses: [an_abstraction]
>
> Assume, test.pd uses this object [../main/using_an_abstraction]. This
> itself is no problem as we use the object by a relative, fully
> qualified pathname. test.pd could also use [an_abstraction] of course.
>
> However using_an_abstraction.pd also tries to use [an_abstraction]
> itself, but here this isn't found, as there is no "an_abstraction.pd"
> in "myabs" and Pd won't find the other one in "main" from here. This
> not only happens when using [using_an_abstraction] standalone, but
> also when it's used as an abstraction itself.
>
> The exact same thing happens with polypoly.pd or singleton.pd when the
> objects, polypoly or singleton create, aren't in the search path for
> *polypoly* rsp. *singleton* itself, but somewhere else:
>
> .
> |-- main
> |   |-- CamelSynth.pd
> |   `-- MySynthWithCamelWords.pd - uses [polypoly CamelSynth 24]
> `-- path_to_polypoly
> `-- polypoly.pd - is made to use [CamelSynth] above.
>
>
> Here [polypoly CamelSynth 24] tries to create a lot of [CamelSynth]
> objects, but those aren't found because there is no CamelSynth.pd in
> path_to_polypoly/. Duh. So "main" needs to be added to polypoly's
> search path which means adding it "main" to Pd's search patch or using
> [declare -path .] in MySynthWithCamelWords.pd
>
> > > Also, this will all become resolved once Pd-extended moves forward
> > > to including more recent abstractions in its releases (i.e.
> > > Pd-extended-0.40 or however it will be branded).
> > >
> >
> > Yes.  (Hans? Frank?) please add sssad and polypoly to Pd-extended!
>
> Isn't sssad already in pd-extended? Anyway, including them won't solve
> the problem above, as it's not related to polypoly rsp. singleton
> being reachable in your custom objects, but your custom objects being
> reachable for singleton or polypoly.
>
> I'd recommend to make copies of singleton.pd and polypoly.pd into
> a subdirectory of polywavesynth and use them with local directory
> prefixes like [./_other/polypoly ...]
>
> I do the same with singleton.pd in the subdirectory "_sssad" of sssad.
>
> Ciao
> --
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
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Re: [PD] Font problem? Spaces replaced by boxes

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Sep 7, 2007, at 11:15 AM, Spencer Russell wrote:

> On 9/7/07, jasch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> i've had the same issue on ubuntu with extended (rev ?, i'd have to
>> go have alook):
>>
>> screenshot here:
>>
>> www.jasch.ch/dl/ds_davos_soundscape/Screenshot.png
>>
>> /*j
>>
>>
>
> Yup, that's just what I'm seeing, too.

What versions of Pd-extended are you guys using (including which OS  
it was built for)?

Which version of Ubuntu?

Has it ever worked properly?

I've been testing on Ubuntu Dapper and Ubuntu Studio Feisty and I  
have not seen this problem, so the more information the better.  And  
a bug report in the tracker is essential:

http://puredata.org/dev/bugtracker

.hc


>
> -spencer
>
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Re: [PD] Rotary controllers in PD?

[Ken Restivo]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Sep 09, 2007 at 12:52:54PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Ken Restivo hat gesagt: // Ken Restivo wrote:
> 
> > 2's complement from 64/Relative (Binary Offset)
> > 2's Complement from 0 / relative (2's Complement)
> > Sign Magnitude / Relative (Signed Bit)
> > Sign Magnitude / Relative (Signed Bit 2)
> > Single Value Increment/Decrement
> 
> What does "Single Value Increment/Decrement" do? Sounds interesting as
> well and may save some work.

That one outputs one number for each step you turn it up, and a different 
number for each step that you turn it down. The faster you turn it, the faster 
those numbers come flying in to ctlin, but the numbers themselves do not change.

> 
> > RPN Increment/Decrement Message
> > NRPN Increment/Decrement Message
> > 
> > I tried each of these and peeked at the MIDI stream to see what they do, 
> > and also at the output of PD's ctlin to see what might emerge. The "sign 
> > magnitude" and "2's complement" ones look pretty promising: they indicate 
> > which direction (up/down) and how fast you spin the thing.
> 
> Assuming you get -1 and 1 for down and up and any positive number for
> speed, you can multiply both numbers to get a stream of single
> numbers. Then you just accumulate these numbers using the standard

What I actually get with the 2's complements and sign magnitude ones, is a 
single bit that tells me direction (up or down), and a 6-bit number that tells 
me basically the velocity at which I spun the knob.

> accumulator idiom: 
>  
>  |
>  [+ ]x[f ]
>  |
>  [0\
> 
> (See the counting.pd tutorial that I posted on this list several times
> for details.)

Thanks, will try. 


> 
> > Now, to turn those numbers into a float between -1 and 0 that I can
> > use for controlling various parameters in PD.
> 
> I don't think this makes sense: What should 0 and -1 indicate? The
> rotary controller doesn't have any left and right borders that could
> be mapped to be -1 and 0. And I also don't think, mapping -1 to min
> and 0 to max speed makes sense either.
> 

I wasn't being clear. Only some of the parameters I want to control have a 
range between -1 and 1. Others have different ranges (i.e. from 0 to Nyquist 
frequency, etc.). My point being, I'm eager to find a way to use these rotary 
controllers, to break out of the limitation of having to divide whatever range 
I am faced with, into 128 measly discrete steps.

- -ken
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFG5Gfye8HF+6xeOIcRAjX1AJ0b3aBjLpGiSrgFX61pgtoehSoA2ACeIkkx
HiNBIaY89SJY7CzXu/MZ8mI=
=0KcB
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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[PD] paths and patches [was: Re: polyWaveSynth issue]

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote:

> Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> > Does Pd search the patch's folder first for all non-native
> > objects before parsing the path? 
> 
> I was wondering that same thing.  If not, this method wouldn't work very 
> consistently.

Pd does search the current directory of a patch before other
directories, but that won't help polypoly.pd to find an abstraction in
that directory, because polypoly.pd is in a different directory and
there is no polywavesynth.pd there! To make polypoly.pd find
polywavesynth.pd, the directory of polywavesynth.pd must be in the
path!

Anybody still following? ;) I admit, that this is a very confusing
issue, so lets use graphics and an example: 

.
|-- main
|   |-- an_abstraction.pd
|   `-- test.pd  - uses [../main/using_an_abstraction]
`-- myabs
`-- using_an_abstraction.pd - uses: [an_abstraction]

Assume, test.pd uses this object [../main/using_an_abstraction]. This
itself is no problem as we use the object by a relative, fully
qualified pathname. test.pd could also use [an_abstraction] of course.

However using_an_abstraction.pd also tries to use [an_abstraction]
itself, but here this isn't found, as there is no "an_abstraction.pd"
in "myabs" and Pd won't find the other one in "main" from here. This
not only happens when using [using_an_abstraction] standalone, but
also when it's used as an abstraction itself.

The exact same thing happens with polypoly.pd or singleton.pd when the
objects, polypoly or singleton create, aren't in the search path for
*polypoly* rsp. *singleton* itself, but somewhere else:

.
|-- main
|   |-- CamelSynth.pd
|   `-- MySynthWithCamelWords.pd - uses [polypoly CamelSynth 24]
`-- path_to_polypoly
`-- polypoly.pd - is made to use [CamelSynth] above.


Here [polypoly CamelSynth 24] tries to create a lot of [CamelSynth]
objects, but those aren't found because there is no CamelSynth.pd in
path_to_polypoly/. Duh. So "main" needs to be added to polypoly's
search path which means adding it "main" to Pd's search patch or using
[declare -path .] in MySynthWithCamelWords.pd

> > Also, this will all become resolved once Pd-extended moves forward
> > to including more recent abstractions in its releases (i.e.
> > Pd-extended-0.40 or however it will be branded).
> >   
> 
> Yes.  (Hans? Frank?) please add sssad and polypoly to Pd-extended!

Isn't sssad already in pd-extended? Anyway, including them won't solve
the problem above, as it's not related to polypoly rsp. singleton
being reachable in your custom objects, but your custom objects being
reachable for singleton or polypoly.

I'd recommend to make copies of singleton.pd and polypoly.pd into
a subdirectory of polywavesynth and use them with local directory
prefixes like [./_other/polypoly ...]

I do the same with singleton.pd in the subdirectory "_sssad" of sssad.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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Re: [PD] (OT) periodic jack xruns in every 20 minutes

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote:

> Check the linux-audio-user list archives regarding the filesystem you 
> use with JACK. I recall that ext3 gives huge problems, 

That must have been long ago: ext3 currently (i.e. with a current
kernel) is one of the recommended filesystems to use, while reiserfs
is a latency hog and should be avoided. 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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Re: [PD] reminder for tuesday

[Steffen]

On 09/09/2007, at 19.33, marius schebella wrote:

> could someone repeat when and where the chat session for pd
> documentation will be on tuesday?

It's nice to know that such meeting/chat has been meaning to happen.  
- I've not come across it on this list, hence i guess it's been  
fostered at the convention...

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Re: [PD] CONVENTION /// was Re: some images...

[marius schebella]

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> I think that the most important thing Pd needs at the moment is to get 
> away from sedimentary programming (that is, deposit more code on top of 
> the existing code) and metamorphic programming (applying intense peer 
> pressure on the sediment makes it harder), if you excuse my mineralogy 
> metaphors...
> 
> That's why we started getting into automatic testing (re: the last talk 
> at pd convention)

I think that is true not only for code, but also for patches.
starting with a clear idea of what patches and parts of 
patches/modules/externals should do and providing test cases makes 
patches and even parts of them more useful for the public.
atm automatic testing is still very complicated to do (at least I would 
not know how to write it). but testing could also be "manual". I really 
like the idea to start patching with a help patch where the object 
inlets and outlets and functions/features are defined before starting 
with the external itself.
maybe that also would make patches more shareable...
marius.

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Re: [PD] reminder for tuesday

[Georg Holzmann]

marius schebella schrieb:
> hi,
> could someone repeat when and where the chat session for pd 
> documentation will be on tuesday?

I think 18:00 UTC ?

LG
Georg

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Re: [PD] (OT) periodic jack xruns in every 20 minutes

[Batuhan Bozkurt]

Kevin McCoy wrote:
> If I made a guess I would check disks spinning up/down, power 
> management settings, things of that nature which may not necessarily 
> show in the CPU... but this is a really uneducated guess.  Like Roman 
> said though, I would also be glad to only have xruns every 20 
> minutes!  Do you get xruns without any apps running and just jack?
>  
> Kevin
>
>  
Yes, jack alone reports xruns too. If cpu-disk load is low I get no 
xruns other than this periodic ones with my Fasttrack pro in 256 
buffers. I like the low latency kernel, am gonna try the realtime kernel 
that is gonna be shipped by gutsy soon.

And my disk is always running so that should not be I guess...

Is there any facility in linux where I can monitor scheduled activities 
by the system or something like that?

Batuhan

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Re: [PD] mp3live~ connection lost too little input

[Batuhan Bozkurt]

mami music wrote:
> thanks batuhan
> well latency is not an issue at this point.
> I would be glad if you could help me out in setting the ogg-icecast 
> server.
>
> im all ears
>
> thanks
>
> daniel
>
Daniel, sorry for the late response. I've been trying to get it to run 
again so I can show you how to do it step by step but somehow i can't 
get it to work. I've lost my notes about running that thing. BTW I'm 
running linux and the main software I used for streaming was something 
called "Internet DJ console" client that was connecting to a running 
icecast server running in localhost, and that was all there is to it. 
Icecast needs a config file which I wrote by hand(and it is lost) and I 
can't get it to work right now. I'll keep trying.

What is your OS?

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Re: [PD] (OT) periodic jack xruns in every 20 minutes

[Derek Holzer]

Check the linux-audio-user list archives regarding the filesystem you 
use with JACK. I recall that ext3 gives huge problems, other file 
systems may have their own issues. The hangup involves how and where 
JACK writes its temporary files. You can also use a jacktmpfs (I think 
that's what it's called). Anyways, LAU will have more info.

d.

Batuhan Bozkurt wrote:
> Kevin McCoy wrote:
>> If I made a guess I would check disks spinning up/down, power 
>> management settings, things of that nature which may not necessarily 
>> show in the CPU... but this is a really uneducated guess.  Like Roman 
>> said though, I would also be glad to only have xruns every 20 
>> minutes!  Do you get xruns without any apps running and just jack?
>>  
>> Kevin
>>
>>  
> Yes, jack alone reports xruns too. If cpu-disk load is low I get no 
> xruns other than this periodic ones with my Fasttrack pro in 256 
> buffers. I like the low latency kernel, am gonna try the realtime kernel 
> that is gonna be shipped by gutsy soon.
> 
> And my disk is always running so that should not be I guess...
> 
> Is there any facility in linux where I can monitor scheduled activities 
> by the system or something like that?
> 
> Batuhan
> 
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-- 
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---Oblique Strategy # 186:
"Work at a different speed"

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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Phil Stone]

Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> Phil~
>
> I don't think it would cause problems if you keep them in a
> subdirectory and addressed the abstractions with abs/foobar.pd type
> naming. 

OK, I think it's starting to sink in.  I can keep private "abstraction 
libraries" inside my abstraction.  Another advantage to this is that I 
can control the versioning of these libraries -- only updating them when 
I know they don't break [polyWaveSynth].

(Man, I wish the whole PD namespace thing weren't such a ball of 
confusion, to me at least.  I guess it's a natural consequence of the 
organic growth of PD, though.)

> Does Pd search the patch's folder first for all non-native
> objects before parsing the path? 

I was wondering that same thing.  If not, this method wouldn't work very 
consistently.

> Also, this will all become resolved
> once Pd-extended moves forward to including more recent abstractions
> in its releases (i.e. Pd-extended-0.40 or however it will be branded).
>   

Yes.  (Hans? Frank?) please add sssad and polypoly to Pd-extended!

> Until then, we just can't really expect the same crowd that
> Pd-extended is marketed for to know much about cvs and setting up the
> paths and stuff. It's better to take the high road and avoid elitist
> isolationism and make things easy as possible for new users to dive
> into: Pd needs adherents to thrive and become a serious competitor of
> similar commercial options.
>   

Agreed.  I just want to make sure I don't screw up the user's namespace, 
though.  That sort of thing will lose adherents in a hurry.  :-)

> I think that this object will be a great selling point for new Pd
> users, especially because of the polyphony. Polyphony management is
> one of the most annoying things for new (and more seasoned) users to
> deal with in Pd. Your synth (combined w/ Frank's freaking awesome
> abstractions) has a great possibility for becoming a template for many
> awesome modifications and enhancements down the line.
>   

What a nice thing to hear!   Thanks, Kyle.


Phil
> ~Kyle
>
> On 9/9/07, Phil Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Hi Kyle,
>>
>> I thought of doing that, but reconsidered because it seems like it might
>> lead to versioning problems, namespace clashes, multiple copies of
>> objects and possibly, dogs and cats sleeping together.
>>
>> Or am I over-thinking it?
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Phil~
>>>
>>> Perhaps  you could repackage the polyWaveSynth with the required
>>> abstractions included, since they are very small in size to make much
>>> of a difference? This might eliminate much of the frustration that
>>> seems to be plaguing some people.
>>>
>>> ~Kyle
>>>
>>> On 9/9/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Hallo,
 Luigi Rensinghoff hat gesagt: // Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:


 
> i was curious to check out that synth, but i get this error.
>
> the screenshot i from ubuntu, but it was the same on OS X.
>
>   
 You can fix this by adding your polyWaveSynth directory to your
 pd-path or copy over poly*.pd to that director.y As polypoly.pd lives
 in a different directory from polyWaveSynth, it cannot find the
 objects it creates dynamically. (I'm not sure, if it *should* see
 them, though, i.e. if this is a bug in Pd.)

 Ciao
 --
  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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>>>
>>>   
>> 
>
>
>   


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[PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox

[Batuhan Bozkurt]

Hello,

I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before I 
switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. But 
there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and after 
all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature that was 
made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox".

It basically allows you to use your keyboard to connect objects to each 
other. For example, if you select n number of objects alligned from top 
to bottom and press "c", all of their left inlets and outlets will be 
connected in the same "top to bottom" fashion. There are also shortcut 
keys for connecting an outlet to multiple inlets of another object(these 
all work from top to bottom) and vice versa and bunch of other features. 
I only miss the "c" shortcut and these "outlet to multiple ins and 
inverse of it" features actually. Extensive mousing makes me feel 
uncomfortable and sometimes causes pain so those shortcuts were making 
my life a lot easier.

I have some programming experience but they were always personal 
projects and I don't think I can understand PD internals well(C code). 
To achieve such functionality in PD what would my options be? I think 
all the gui is handled in pd.tk file with Tcl/Tk(I may be badly mistaken 
though) so would this be a matter of adding some stuff to tickle 
scripts? Or is it impossible to do without patching the C code? If I can 
find a feasible way to do it, I might work on it as the practicality 
that is gonna bring would be very huge(for me anyways).

Any clues on the possibility of this addition?
Here is the youtube video of the max toolbox thingy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqF9hDNoJk

I'm pretty sure that most of you know about that but if you've never 
heard of it, then there is the link.

Thanks,
Batuhan


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Re: [PD] [Pd] Building OSCx on 64-bit Debian

[Chuckk Hubbard]

On 9/8/07, Ken Restivo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 06:48:52PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
> > Hi.  I acquired a p5 glove, and the Pd interface I found for it relies
> on
> > OSCx.  I've been trying to build it, having added -fPIC to it, but I get
> > this:
> > make[1]: Entering directory `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src'
> > cc -Wl,-export_dynamic -shared -o sendOSC.pd_linux sendOSC.o htmsocket.o
> > OSC-system-dependent.o -L../../../pd/bin -lpd -lc -lm ../libOSC/libOSC.a
> > /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpd
> > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> > make[1]: *** [sendOSC.pd_linux] Error 1
> > make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src'
> > make: *** [all] Error 2
> >
> >
> > I added several paths to the INCLUDES line in src/Makefile, as the guy
> > suggested, with the path to a Pd src folder, but still it can't find
> this
> > -lpd.  I read man ld and tried searching for any kind of *libpd*, *pd.a*,
> or
> > *pd.so* on my entire hard drive, and none of them exist.  Should I
> replace
> > this -lpd with something else?  I tried removing it, and it built a
> faulty
> > set of OSCx objects that don't work.
> >
>
> The linker uses -L not -I to determine its paths.
>
> Try -L/usr/wherever/pd/libs/are/located ?


Hi Ken, thanks for the suggestion.  It doesn't seem to make a difference.
There are a series of -L flags and a series of -I flags, so I'm guessing
whoever wrote it knew the difference.  But I tried both.
I also tried removing the -lpd flag, since, again, there is no file on my
system that would satisfy it, and it built dumpOSC.pd_linux,
sendOSC.pd_linux, and OSCroute.pd_linux, but Pd cannot create a dumpOSC
object, while it does create the other two...

-Chuckk




- -ken
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> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>



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Re: [PD] CONVENTION /// was Re: some images...

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007, Alexandre Quessy wrote:

I enjoyed Miller's talk about Pd being already very interesting, and not 
needing too much changes in the future, but I still think that some 
things could be changed for the better, regarding symbols, threads, 
docs, Gem, libraries, etc.


Miller's talk was rather vague: to some people it sounded like "pd will 
stagnate", but at the same time, it didn't quite say what was going to 
stay the same. A lot of pd has to stay the same no matter what, but people 
wouldn't quite agree on how much.


I think that the most important thing Pd needs at the moment is to get 
away from sedimentary programming (that is, deposit more code on top of 
the existing code) and metamorphic programming (applying intense peer 
pressure on the sediment makes it harder), if you excuse my mineralogy 
metaphors...


That's why we started getting into automatic testing (re: the last talk at 
pd convention)



(I am writing a little OpenGL OSC client for Pd meanwhile... :)  )


Don't you mean OpenCV instead?

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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote:

> That requires > 40.0, right?  Also, there doesn't seem to be a help 
> patch for [declare] -- I've seen it mentioned here on the list, but is 
> it documented anywhere?  It looks like it would add [polyWaveSynth]s 
> folder to PD's path -- but how would PD find [polyWaveSynth] to load it 
> in the first place?

Uhm, I don't really know, when declare was introduced, may indeed be
with 0.40.

Anyway, adding the directory of pWS to the path will make polypoly.pd
find the objects it needs to create copies from. One can either add
the directory using "pd -path ..." or using [declare]. However there
are still some problems with that, which I will post in a separate
mail.

Ciao
-- 
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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] ask for cvs access

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> AFAIK, they work well for Pd objects and binary objects.  The only  
> difference I know of is that with binaries, if you load and object  
> with the namespace prefix, then it will also claim the class name  
> without the prefix

Yes, that's what I meant as being problematic when using namespaces
with externals.

Ciao
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Re: [PD] Multitouch lowtech

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Nifty, but looks limited.  The actual technique used by Jeff Han's  
group is not that complicated either.  You just need good plexiglass  
and a source of even lighting to shine down the edge of it.  Then  
point a webcam at it.

.hc

On Sep 9, 2007, at 12:32 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Hallo,
>
> oki, it was on boing so everyone here has already seen it, but still,
> that's a mighty impressive lowtech solution to the multitouch
> interface hype: http://blog.medallia.com/2007/06/dyesight.html
>
> Shouldn't this Just Work(tm) with Gem's [pix_multiblob]?
>
> Ciao
> -- 
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Kyle Klipowicz]

Phil~

I don't think it would cause problems if you keep them in a
subdirectory and addressed the abstractions with abs/foobar.pd type
naming. Does Pd search the patch's folder first for all non-native
objects before parsing the path? Also, this will all become resolved
once Pd-extended moves forward to including more recent abstractions
in its releases (i.e. Pd-extended-0.40 or however it will be branded).

Until then, we just can't really expect the same crowd that
Pd-extended is marketed for to know much about cvs and setting up the
paths and stuff. It's better to take the high road and avoid elitist
isolationism and make things easy as possible for new users to dive
into: Pd needs adherents to thrive and become a serious competitor of
similar commercial options.

I think that this object will be a great selling point for new Pd
users, especially because of the polyphony. Polyphony management is
one of the most annoying things for new (and more seasoned) users to
deal with in Pd. Your synth (combined w/ Frank's freaking awesome
abstractions) has a great possibility for becoming a template for many
awesome modifications and enhancements down the line.

~Kyle

On 9/9/07, Phil Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Kyle,
>
> I thought of doing that, but reconsidered because it seems like it might
> lead to versioning problems, namespace clashes, multiple copies of
> objects and possibly, dogs and cats sleeping together.
>
> Or am I over-thinking it?
>
>
> Phil
>
> Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> > Hi Phil~
> >
> > Perhaps  you could repackage the polyWaveSynth with the required
> > abstractions included, since they are very small in size to make much
> > of a difference? This might eliminate much of the frustration that
> > seems to be plaguing some people.
> >
> > ~Kyle
> >
> > On 9/9/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hallo,
> >> Luigi Rensinghoff hat gesagt: // Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> i was curious to check out that synth, but i get this error.
> >>>
> >>> the screenshot i from ubuntu, but it was the same on OS X.
> >>>
> >> You can fix this by adding your polyWaveSynth directory to your
> >> pd-path or copy over poly*.pd to that director.y As polypoly.pd lives
> >> in a different directory from polyWaveSynth, it cannot find the
> >> objects it creates dynamically. (I'm not sure, if it *should* see
> >> them, though, i.e. if this is a bug in Pd.)
> >>
> >> Ciao
> >> --
> >>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>


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[PD] reminder for tuesday

[marius schebella]

hi,
could someone repeat when and where the chat session for pd 
documentation will be on tuesday?
thanks,
marius.

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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] ask for cvs access

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Sep 9, 2007, at 6:23 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Hallo,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] hat gesagt: // [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>> we have namespace prefixes for that, no?
>>>
>>>
>> i don't trust namespaces and that everybody
>> knows how to use it correctly
>
> And namespaces don't really work well for binary objects (externals)
> yet.

AFAIK, they work well for Pd objects and binary objects.  The only  
difference I know of is that with binaries, if you load and object  
with the namespace prefix, then it will also claim the class name  
without the prefix, i.e. using [maxlib/change] will claim [change] as  
well.  That doesn't happen with objects written in Pd.


>>> anyway I'll think to a more self-explicative name...
>>>
>>> editmatrix seems a good candidate...
>>
>> can i suggest the name of 'tracker' ?
>
> What about "numgrid"?

But yes, just because there are namespaces, does not mean that you  
should give generic names to your objects.  Objects should still have  
names that describe their function well and are hopefully unique.

.hc


>
> Ciao
> -- 
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
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Re: [PD] [GEM-dev] gem : using texture for vertex position

[chris clepper]

You are most likely turning on software rendering by accessing the texture
in the vertex shader.

Textures are uploaded as 8 bit per component which is the standard for
images and video.  Changing this to 32 bit floats is extremely inefficient.
There might be a way to specify the GPU storage to be 32 bit float, but
typically the driver would do the conversion slowly and not the GPU.

Render to texture using gemframebuffer with a 'format FLOAT' message will
give a float texture to read from in the shaders.  I see that you filed a
bug that this object does not work on your machine though.  Maybe you can
try another?

You could try changing the code in pix_texture and recompiling.  Change the
format from GL_UNSIGNED_BYTE to GL_FLOAT to see if that works and speeds it
up.  The uploaded texture will not contain the right values since the GPU
expects a float and the image is still 8 bit.

I probably won't have time to work on this for a few weeks, but I want to
get the framebuffer working better.

On 9/9/07, cyrille henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hello,
>
> i'm tring to do more physics on the GPU, and i'm facing some problems.
> simulation results can be compute on texture (just like the wave example i
> send month ago), so now i'd like to use this texture to move vertex.
>
> if i acces to a texture with a vertex shader just like on a fragment
> shader, then it's very slow.
> (cpu is at 100%)
>
> i found that :
> "vertex textures must be 32-bit-per-component textures, floating point,
> and they can't use any filtering mode except nearest filtering."
>
> i tryed "quality 0" to pix_texture in order to have the nearest filtering
> mode, but i'm not sure about the 32 bit per component texture.
> is it the default on Gem?
> if no, is it possible to change it?
>
> anyone already have an exemple how to use a texture to displace vertex?
>
>
> thanks
>
> cyrille
>
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Re: [PD] Multitouch lowtech

[Dafydd Hughes]

really hope so!

On 9/9/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo,
>
> oki, it was on boing so everyone here has already seen it, but still,
> that's a mighty impressive lowtech solution to the multitouch
> interface hype: http://blog.medallia.com/2007/06/dyesight.html
>
> Shouldn't this Just Work(tm) with Gem's [pix_multiblob]?
>
> Ciao
> --
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
> ___
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skype: chickeninthegrass

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[PD] Multitouch lowtech

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,

oki, it was on boing so everyone here has already seen it, but still,
that's a mighty impressive lowtech solution to the multitouch
interface hype: http://blog.medallia.com/2007/06/dyesight.html

Shouldn't this Just Work(tm) with Gem's [pix_multiblob]?

Ciao
-- 
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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Phil Stone]

Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote:
>   
>> I thought of doing that, but reconsidered because it seems like it might 
>> lead to versioning problems, namespace clashes, multiple copies of 
>> objects and possibly, dogs and cats sleeping together.
>> 
>
> I've found an easier solution: add [declare -path .] to
> polyWaveSynth.pd. 

That requires > 40.0, right?  Also, there doesn't seem to be a help 
patch for [declare] -- I've seen it mentioned here on the list, but is 
it documented anywhere?  It looks like it would add [polyWaveSynth]s 
folder to PD's path -- but how would PD find [polyWaveSynth] to load it 
in the first place?

Plus, does this really avoid any problems from including dependent 
objects (possibly creating multiple copies) inside abstraction folders?

> Or was it PolyWaveSynth.pd? PolyWavesynth.pd? I
> think all lowercase names are easier to remember . ;)
i'llconsiderthatforthenextrelease.   :-)


Phil

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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote:
> 
> I thought of doing that, but reconsidered because it seems like it might 
> lead to versioning problems, namespace clashes, multiple copies of 
> objects and possibly, dogs and cats sleeping together.

I've found an easier solution: add [declare -path .] to
polyWaveSynth.pd. Or was it PolyWaveSynth.pd? PolyWavesynth.pd? I
think all lowercase names are easier to remember . ;)

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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Re: [PD] Rotary controllers in PD?

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Ken Restivo hat gesagt: // Ken Restivo wrote:

>   2's complement from 64/Relative (Binary Offset)
>   2's Complement from 0 / relative (2's Complement)
>   Sign Magnitude / Relative (Signed Bit)
>   Sign Magnitude / Relative (Signed Bit 2)
>   Single Value Increment/Decrement

What does "Single Value Increment/Decrement" do? Sounds interesting as
well and may save some work.

>   RPN Increment/Decrement Message
>   NRPN Increment/Decrement Message
> 
> I tried each of these and peeked at the MIDI stream to see what they do, and 
> also at the output of PD's ctlin to see what might emerge. The "sign 
> magnitude" and "2's complement" ones look pretty promising: they indicate 
> which direction (up/down) and how fast you spin the thing.

Assuming you get -1 and 1 for down and up and any positive number for
speed, you can multiply both numbers to get a stream of single
numbers. Then you just accumulate these numbers using the standard
accumulator idiom: 
 
 |
 [+ ]x[f ]
 |
 [0\

(See the counting.pd tutorial that I posted on this list several times
for details.)

> Now, to turn those numbers into a float between -1 and 0 that I can
> use for controlling various parameters in PD.

I don't think this makes sense: What should 0 and -1 indicate? The
rotary controller doesn't have any left and right borders that could
be mapped to be -1 and 0. And I also don't think, mapping -1 to min
and 0 to max speed makes sense either.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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[PD] gem : using texture for vertex position

[cyrille henry]

hello,

i'm tring to do more physics on the GPU, and i'm facing some problems.
simulation results can be compute on texture (just like the wave example i send 
month ago), so now i'd like to use this texture to move vertex.

if i acces to a texture with a vertex shader just like on a fragment shader, 
then it's very slow.
(cpu is at 100%)

i found that : 
"vertex textures must be 32-bit-per-component textures, floating point, and 
they can't use any filtering mode except nearest filtering."

i tryed "quality 0" to pix_texture in order to have the nearest filtering mode, 
but i'm not sure about the 32 bit per component texture.
is it the default on Gem?
if no, is it possible to change it?

anyone already have an exemple how to use a texture to displace vertex?


thanks

cyrille

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Re: [PD] small polyWaveSynth issue; udpdate available

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Phil Stone hat gesagt: // Phil Stone wrote:

> I am beginning to see that it might not be a good idea to expose all 
> those receives, even if the likelihood of name-collision is small.  If 
> all patches were designed this way, there would be a great many possible 
> collisions, so the likelihood would increase, even with careful naming.  

Exactly. I wrote about this issue a bit in my old RRADical paper in
section "Communication": http://footils.org/cms/show/1#communication

Generally I think, abstraction developers should keep the number of
global receivers to an absolute minimum and avoid them wherever
possible. As you are using [sssad] there already is one global
receiver builtin, that you can use to address all [sssad] enabled
objects. You do this in a similar way to saving and restoring
all settings: Instead of restoring all, you just restore only one
setting.

Another good approach to keep the number of global s/r minimal is to
use [route] and [list prepend]:

 [r GLOBAL]
 |
 [list trim]
 |
 [route one two three]
 |   |   |
 |   |   ...
 |   ...
 [s $0-one]

By this you have three targets available using only one receiver. With
[list prepend] it's easy to make "settable sends" like this:

  [three(
 "data"   | [two(
 ||/
 [list prepend one]
 |
 [s GLOBAL]

or directly: 

 [one 1 uno eins(
 | [two 2 duo zwei(
 |/
 [s GLOBAL]


Now replace "GLOBAL" with inlets/outlets and you have reduced the
number of global receivers to zero! This is the approach developed and
used in RRADical: The rightmost inlet/outlet serves as single border
crossing to the internals of a RRADical abstraction, internally then
OSCroute is used to multiplex the data sent to such an "OSC-inlet". In
[sssad] this is less formalized, but it's the same idea. netpd also
uses something like this so I guess it is a kind of design pattern. ;) 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Phil Stone]

Hi Kyle,

I thought of doing that, but reconsidered because it seems like it might 
lead to versioning problems, namespace clashes, multiple copies of 
objects and possibly, dogs and cats sleeping together.

Or am I over-thinking it?


Phil

Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> Hi Phil~
>
> Perhaps  you could repackage the polyWaveSynth with the required
> abstractions included, since they are very small in size to make much
> of a difference? This might eliminate much of the frustration that
> seems to be plaguing some people.
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 9/9/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Hallo,
>> Luigi Rensinghoff hat gesagt: // Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> i was curious to check out that synth, but i get this error.
>>>
>>> the screenshot i from ubuntu, but it was the same on OS X.
>>>   
>> You can fix this by adding your polyWaveSynth directory to your
>> pd-path or copy over poly*.pd to that director.y As polypoly.pd lives
>> in a different directory from polyWaveSynth, it cannot find the
>> objects it creates dynamically. (I'm not sure, if it *should* see
>> them, though, i.e. if this is a bug in Pd.)
>>
>> Ciao
>> --
>>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>>
>> ___
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>> 
>
>
>   


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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Kyle Klipowicz]

Hi Phil~

Perhaps  you could repackage the polyWaveSynth with the required
abstractions included, since they are very small in size to make much
of a difference? This might eliminate much of the frustration that
seems to be plaguing some people.

~Kyle

On 9/9/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo,
> Luigi Rensinghoff hat gesagt: // Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:
>
> > i was curious to check out that synth, but i get this error.
> >
> > the screenshot i from ubuntu, but it was the same on OS X.
>
> You can fix this by adding your polyWaveSynth directory to your
> pd-path or copy over poly*.pd to that director.y As polypoly.pd lives
> in a different directory from polyWaveSynth, it cannot find the
> objects it creates dynamically. (I'm not sure, if it *should* see
> them, though, i.e. if this is a bug in Pd.)
>
> Ciao
> --
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
> ___
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Re: [PD] polyWaveSynth issue

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Luigi Rensinghoff hat gesagt: // Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:

> i was curious to check out that synth, but i get this error.
> 
> the screenshot i from ubuntu, but it was the same on OS X.

You can fix this by adding your polyWaveSynth directory to your
pd-path or copy over poly*.pd to that director.y As polypoly.pd lives
in a different directory from polyWaveSynth, it cannot find the
objects it creates dynamically. (I'm not sure, if it *should* see
them, though, i.e. if this is a bug in Pd.)

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] ask for cvs access

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] hat gesagt: // [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> >we have namespace prefixes for that, no?
> >
> >
> i don't trust namespaces and that everybody
> knows how to use it correctly

And namespaces don't really work well for binary objects (externals)
yet.

> >anyway I'll think to a more self-explicative name...
> >
> >editmatrix seems a good candidate...
>
> can i suggest the name of 'tracker' ?

What about "numgrid"?

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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[PD] OT: Quechup

[Dafydd Hughes]

Hi folks

Carlos - it looks like you got screwed by Quechup.

For those of you who don't know about it: I've only read about it -
not experienced it first hand, but it seems that this social
networking site, as soon as you join, sends an invitation (from you!)
to your entire address book without asking. People have had their
email accounts shut down for spamming because of this.

I first read about it here:
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/04/quechup-is-rotten-do.html

Joining is an innocent act - as far as I can tell it's just a crooked
organization.

cheers
dafydd

-- 
www.sideshowmedia.ca
skype: chickeninthegrass

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[PD] Invitation from Carlos Pita ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

[Carlos Pita]

CarlosPita ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
has invited you as a friend on Quechup... 
...the social networking platform sweeping the globe

Go to: http://quechup.com/join.php/aT0wMDAwMDAwMDA5OTgyMzQyJmM9MTAyMjE0 to
accept Carlos's invite

You can use Quechup to meet new people, catch up with old friends,
maintain a blog, share videos & photos, chat with other members, play
games, and more.
It's no wonder Quechup is fast becoming 'The Social Networking site to be
on'

Join Carlos and his friends today:
http://quechup.com/join.php/aT0wMDAwMDAwMDA5OTgyMzQyJmM9MTAyMjE0
--
You received this because Carlos Pita ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) knows and
agreed to invite you. You will only receive one invitation from
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quechup will not spam or sell your email address,
see our privacy policy - http://quechup.com/privacy.php
Go to http://quechup.com/emailunsubscribe.php/ZW09cGQtbGlzdEBpZW0uYXQ%3D
if you do not wish to receive any more emails from Quechup.
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Copyright Quechup.com 2007.

Go to http://quechup.com/emailunsubscribe.php/ZW09cGQtbGlzdEBpZW0uYXQ%3D
if you do not wish to receive any more emails from Quechup
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