Re: [PD] sound for blender apricot opensource game
Hallo! it's sad, but especially for mastering tasks i still have to stick with proprietary tools on a proprietary operating system, since working with foss tools is still way far from being as efficient as with the tools that are usually used in studios. Did you try Ardour+Jamin ? I did some recording projects with it in summer and it just worked quite well ... it works similar like a protools setup. LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools (was: sound for blender apricot opensource game)
thanks for mentioning those. we're getting a bit OT now, but just a few quick comments: -ardour is certainly a great and advanced DAW, no doubt. recording can be definitely done with FOSS. - jamin is cool and powerful software too, but it follows the wrong strategy: you can only use it in real-time, since it is a jack-plugin. having to render in realtime is a pain and dangerous in many situations (all drop-outs are in the resulting file). OTOH, LADSPA plugins don't support customized guis, AFAIK, therefor there is no option to do something like jamin as a LADSPA plugin. IMHO, most LADSPA plugins might be good scientific applications, but definitely not for everyday studio work (no visual feedback, strange scales of parameters). - both ardour, jamin and almost all sound editors i found don't have an accelerated gui. scrolling causes high cpu peaks.i don't know any software on windows, that uses cpu for the gui part. it's sad, that i have hardware (gpu) in my box, which isn't used at all (but only when i do Gem). - i actually appreciate the concept of modularized and specialized tools, that are connected over a soundsever instead of a monolithic 'it can do everything' tool. however, since LASH and its precedessor LADCCA don't have the same level support in each software, that could be used in a studio environment, it's kinda hard to manage projects. - there is not audio editor around, that even loosely fulfills my needs. probably the makers of Elephants Dream felt the same. Some of them lack native jack support, others use very strange sets of shortcuts, or are pretty raw in general. yo, those are just a few reasons why the makers of Elephants Dream may didn't want to go for FOSS for the sound part. i hope it's only a question of waiting some years, until the audio world gets to similar level as blender reached in the 3d world. roman On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 09:31 +0100, Georg Holzmann wrote: Hallo! it's sad, but especially for mastering tasks i still have to stick with proprietary tools on a proprietary operating system, since working with foss tools is still way far from being as efficient as with the tools that are usually used in studios. Did you try Ardour+Jamin ? I did some recording projects with it in summer and it just worked quite well ... it works similar like a protools setup. LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools
Hallo! - jamin is cool and powerful software too, but it follows the wrong strategy: you can only use it in real-time, since it is a jack-plugin. having to render in realtime is a pain and dangerous in many situations Yeah that's true - would be nice to do that offline ... But this is also how it works in studios, you have your mastering-hardware and bounce it in rt (I am not such a studio expert, but at least in the studios I was it was done like this). However, this should be no excuse ... (all drop-outs are in the resulting file). OTOH, LADSPA plugins don't support customized guis, AFAIK, therefor there is no option to do something like jamin as a LADSPA plugin. IMHO, most LADSPA plugins might be good scientific applications, but definitely not for everyday studio work (no visual feedback, strange scales of parameters). Yes, that's the second problem. It took me quite some time to find some good sounding plugins (and some I had to fix) - but they exist. Better visual feedback would be great too - maybe the upcoming LV2 can solve this ... Okay, that's maybe a little bit OT now ;) LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] ogg/theora in Gem
Is there support for pix_film or pix_movie to play back theora video files? (in Linux). Thanks, Jim ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools (was: sound for blender apricot opensource game)
Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: thanks for mentioning those. we're getting a bit OT now, but just a few quick comments: -ardour is certainly a great and advanced DAW, no doubt. recording can be definitely done with FOSS. - jamin is cool and powerful software too, but it follows the wrong strategy: you can only use it in real-time, since it is a jack-plugin. having to render in realtime is a pain and dangerous in many situations (all drop-outs are in the resulting file). OTOH, LADSPA plugins don't support customized guis, AFAIK, therefor there is no option to do something like jamin as a LADSPA plugin. IMHO, most LADSPA plugins might be good scientific applications, but definitely not for everyday studio work (no visual feedback, strange scales of parameters). LADSPA plugins don't have a GUI at all, so every GUI you get is a customized one. LADSPA-plugins itself are perfectly able to be run in non-realtime. For example if you render an Ardour session with LADSPA plugins in it to file, this is done in non-realtime fashion. Often it's done faster than realtime. - both ardour, jamin and almost all sound editors i found don't have an accelerated gui. scrolling causes high cpu peaks.i don't know any software on windows, that uses cpu for the gui part. it's sad, that i have hardware (gpu) in my box, which isn't used at all (but only when i do Gem). The actually drawing is accelerated by the graphics card already. However a tricky question that cannot simply be shovelled to the gfx-card (so easily) is how to decide which samples to display at all. For example when zoomed out, you don't need to draw every single sample. Ardour uses a sophisticated algorithm for deciding things like that, AFAIK. (IIRC Paul Davis once said that this was one of the hardest parts in Ardour to get right.) Compare that to Pd, which doesn't even bother with trying to be smart here, which results in slowdown when moving arrays with many elements, even when they are displayed in only a small area. All in all to me Ardour doesn't feel slow at all. Audacity OTOH is slow (and all around terrible for my taste anyway) as was the last version of SoundForge for Windows, that I had to run at work - though I admit that this was some years ago. But Ardour feels very snappy and quick here. - there is not audio editor around, that even loosely fulfills my needs. probably the makers of Elephants Dream felt the same. Some of them lack native jack support, others use very strange sets of shortcuts, or are pretty raw in general. Uhm, while Blender certainly is great, you aren't seriously trying to tell me you really think its shortcuts are intuitive, are you?!? ;-) Someone who mastered Blender should have no problems with Ardour, given he invests about a tenth of the time to learn it. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools (was: sound for blender apricot opensource game)
On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 13:52 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: thanks for mentioning those. we're getting a bit OT now, but just a few quick comments: -ardour is certainly a great and advanced DAW, no doubt. recording can be definitely done with FOSS. - jamin is cool and powerful software too, but it follows the wrong strategy: you can only use it in real-time, since it is a jack-plugin. having to render in realtime is a pain and dangerous in many situations (all drop-outs are in the resulting file). OTOH, LADSPA plugins don't support customized guis, AFAIK, therefor there is no option to do something like jamin as a LADSPA plugin. IMHO, most LADSPA plugins might be good scientific applications, but definitely not for everyday studio work (no visual feedback, strange scales of parameters). LADSPA plugins don't have a GUI at all, so every GUI you get is a customized one. LADSPA-plugins itself are perfectly able to be run in non-realtime. For example if you render an Ardour session with LADSPA plugins in it to file, this is done in non-realtime fashion. Often it's done faster than realtime. yeah, that is what i am saying: LADSPA plugins can be rendered offline, but don't have a visual feedback, whereas tools as jamin have visual feedback, but cannot be rendered offline and therefor are not drop-out save. - both ardour, jamin and almost all sound editors i found don't have an accelerated gui. scrolling causes high cpu peaks.i don't know any software on windows, that uses cpu for the gui part. it's sad, that i have hardware (gpu) in my box, which isn't used at all (but only when i do Gem). The actually drawing is accelerated by the graphics card already. However a tricky question that cannot simply be shovelled to the gfx-card (so easily) is how to decide which samples to display at all. For example when zoomed out, you don't need to draw every single sample. Ardour uses a sophisticated algorithm for deciding things like that, AFAIK. (IIRC Paul Davis once said that this was one of the hardest parts in Ardour to get right.) Compare that to Pd, which doesn't even bother with trying to be smart here, which results in slowdown when moving arrays with many elements, even when they are displayed in only a small area. All in all to me Ardour doesn't feel slow at all. Audacity OTOH is slow (and all around terrible for my taste anyway) as was the last version of SoundForge for Windows, that I had to run at work - though I admit that this was some years ago. But Ardour feels very snappy and quick here. - there is not audio editor around, that even loosely fulfills my needs. probably the makers of Elephants Dream felt the same. Some of them lack native jack support, others use very strange sets of shortcuts, or are pretty raw in general. Uhm, while Blender certainly is great, you aren't seriously trying to tell me you really think its shortcuts are intuitive, are you?!? ;-) Someone who mastered Blender should have no problems with Ardour, given he invests about a tenth of the time to learn it. Ciao ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] donecanvasdialog documentation? - for M. Puckette
Hi Mr. Puckette, I'm replying to Frank's message in the list. Can you comment on the statement he made about the stability of donecanvasdialog? Are you thinking about replacing donecanvasdialog for something else that has the same (and hopefully better) functions, or just to remove the possibilities at all? I find it to be a quite interesting feature, as it allows for better custom-made abstractions (beauty is not a sin). Thanks, Joao Hallo, João Miguel Pais hat gesagt: // João Miguel Pais wrote: after going through the honk abs, I saw the post http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-02/047115.html which explains something about how this command works. I wanted to ask, is there already any documentation about donecanvasdialog? Who is developing it, and which features are programmed to be added? donecanvasdialog and many (or most) of the other dynamic patching messages are undocumented features, which according to Miller are not guaranteed to stay available. They may break with any new Pd version. Use (and document) at your own risk. Ciao PS [copied from another mail I just sent to the list]: By the way, how about if arrays also save their display characteristics? Ticks, numbers, etc.? I guess it shouldn't be hard to built in, right? -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin Deutschland Tel +49 30 42020091 Mob +49 162 6843570 [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: jmmmpjmmmp http://www.puredata.org/Members/jmmmp IBM Thinkpad R51, XP, Pd-Ext-0.39-2-t5, Pd Van 0.40-t2 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools (was: sound for blender apricot opensource game)
sorry, i accidently hit send, while i wasn't finished. On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 13:52 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: The actually drawing is accelerated by the graphics card already. However a tricky question that cannot simply be shovelled to the gfx-card (so easily) is how to decide which samples to display at all. For example when zoomed out, you don't need to draw every single sample. Ardour uses a sophisticated algorithm for deciding things like that, AFAIK. (IIRC Paul Davis once said that this was one of the hardest parts in Ardour to get right.) Compare that to Pd, which doesn't even bother with trying to be smart here, which results in slowdown when moving arrays with many elements, even when they are displayed in only a small area. All in all to me Ardour doesn't feel slow at all. Audacity OTOH is slow (and all around terrible for my taste anyway) as was the last version of SoundForge for Windows, that I had to run at work - though I admit that this was some years ago. But Ardour feels very snappy and quick here. you're right, that it doesn't feel slow, however, whether it's related to hardware acceleration or not, it causes peaks when simply scrolling the timeline (no zooming). many linux softwares do that, whereas no audio editor or daw for windows i know does cause peaks while scrolling. so there is still room for improvements, whether it's hardware acceleration related or not. and after all, ardour is a bad example, since it's probably the best software in that respect and in terms of usability. - there is not audio editor around, that even loosely fulfills my needs. probably the makers of Elephants Dream felt the same. Some of them lack native jack support, others use very strange sets of shortcuts, or are pretty raw in general. Uhm, while Blender certainly is great, you aren't seriously trying to tell me you really think its shortcuts are intuitive, are you?!? ;-) no, but i wouldn't compare the complexity of sound-editing to the one of creating animated 3D-environments. many softwares in the proprietary world have proven, that sound editing can be easy, where at the same time there is no (this is my personal opinion, of course) no usable audio editor for linux around and yet no plugins or plugin architecture, that would allow mastering. blender might be not easy to learn, but it has proven, that it can be used for very complex projects as rendering animated movies. Someone who mastered Blender should have no problems with Ardour, given he invests about a tenth of the time to learn it. yeah roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] multiple audio device
Hmmm, I am using Pd version 0.39.3-extended on a XP machine with a RME Hammerfall sound card. Always when I choose use multiple devices in the Media menu of PD I get this message: separate audio device choice not supported\; using sequential devices. That's quite strange as I would like to use all the 8 outputs of my sound card, but it doesn't work. It worked with earlier PD versions though. Does anybody know how to solve that? Or why the problem occurs? Thanks, Marko ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] multiple audio device
On 03/02/2008, Marko Timlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, I am using Pd version 0.39.3-extended on a XP machine with a RME Hammerfall sound card. Always when I choose use multiple devices in the Media menu of PD I get this message: separate audio device choice not supported\; using sequential devices. That's quite strange as I would like to use all the 8 outputs of my sound card, but it doesn't work. It worked with earlier PD versions though. Does anybody know how to solve that? Or why the problem occurs? Thanks, Marko __ Hi Marko! Did you set the audio setting correctly? e.g: media/audio settings.../[tick] output device: [blah] channels: [8] and Do you really need multiple devices (soundcards)? From your email I understand that you just need the 8 outputs from your RME. alabala -- Ypatios. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sound for blender apricot opensource game
there is not much information in that posting, but I would like to participate, no question. what they look for is a *composer*. so no explicit need for soundFX or foley sound art. as olme already wrote in his original mail, the game will use the CrystalSpace sound engine. the specs are: Sound system: * 2D and 3D sound rendering via DirectSound, Alsa, OSS and CoreAudio. * Provides both one*time playing of effects and streaming playing in the background for music. so, not much space (yet) for pd, but probably space for music composed with pd. still, there could be a lot of space for pd in the future. a modular game-pd could replace the sound module of the game engine or work closely together onetime playing or looping is not a great challenge. the 2d/3d sound FX could also be rendered by a modular pd patch in real time (used like a vst-plugin) or many other fx (reverbs...) plus, pd could also provide realtime rendering for sounds like footsteps ambient sounds (rain, wind) and stuff like that. again, this would only be possible if pd is included in the game engine or is modular and flexible enough to get packed together with the game engine. and it would need some good people who are able to create these sounds synthetically. once this is done, it probably will be a lot of fun and even provide some paid jobs (hopefully!?). marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: This sounds like a great opportunity for Pd, especially considering that Pd is the sound engine in the game Spore. .hc On Feb 1, 2008, at 7:09 PM, olme wrote: seeing this: http://apricot.blender.org/?p=59 , I had the idea that somebody could do it efficiently with generated sound dezign (like brilliantly discussed earlier here by andy - obiwannabe.co.uk ) In short : Blender Instituut search for a sound designer for the upcoming opensource game codenamed apricot. I'm in no way related to this instituut or project, just that I thought it could interrest someone that is developping on pd for games, as this one is already promised some exposure in the opensource/free software world, in the CGI world (with the short film produced right now : see peach.blender.org ) and in the game world (it will surely make some lines in game magasines) ... I think those working for this project in the front line are payed, so it could be a good incentive to have some kind of opensource exemple of a current game made with pd. Blender Game Engine has already been used with pd through py-OSC, but this project use the CrystalSpace Game Engine... I don't know about the connectivity, but as CS use python, it's maybe just some lines away I would be interrested to see the result anyway ... as I'm not able to do it myself ... Ol.me http://www.ogeem.be ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools
Roman Haefeli wrote: yo, those are just a few reasons why the makers of Elephants Dream may didn't want to go for FOSS for the sound part. i hope it's only a question of waiting some years, until the audio world gets to similar level as blender reached in the 3d world. roman Hmm, one more reason: elephant's dream was a blender project. some of the grant money went into core development of blender itself to adjust it to production features. one of the goals of the film was, to see whether blender would pass the ready for a real film exam. blender people just did not have the budget (and goal) to develop on the sound side, too. btw, blender forum has about 30.000 registered users. pd maybe 1000-3000??? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools
Frank Barknecht wrote: Uhm, while Blender certainly is great, you aren't seriously trying to tell me you really think its shortcuts are intuitive, are you?!? ;-) how do you want to manage hundreds of commands intuitively? I would say camera rotation is intuitive. which other program with a comparable feature set is more intuitive? ok, maybe photoshop... marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools (was: sound for blender apricot opensource game)
On Feb 3, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: thanks for mentioning those. we're getting a bit OT now, but just a few quick comments: -ardour is certainly a great and advanced DAW, no doubt. recording can be definitely done with FOSS. - jamin is cool and powerful software too, but it follows the wrong strategy: you can only use it in real-time, since it is a jack-plugin. having to render in realtime is a pain and dangerous in many situations (all drop-outs are in the resulting file). OTOH, LADSPA plugins don't support customized guis, AFAIK, therefor there is no option to do something like jamin as a LADSPA plugin. IMHO, most LADSPA plugins might be good scientific applications, but definitely not for everyday studio work (no visual feedback, strange scales of parameters). - both ardour, jamin and almost all sound editors i found don't have an accelerated gui. scrolling causes high cpu peaks.i don't know any software on windows, that uses cpu for the gui part. it's sad, that i have hardware (gpu) in my box, which isn't used at all (but only when i do Gem). On Mac OS X, at least, the OS handles moving the GUI drawing to the GPU. I think that's what compiz/beryl is trying to do as well, and I'll bet GNOME is doing some of that too. I'll be Windows does that as well. If you are writing an audio editor, I don't think you should be thinking about the GPU, that's the OS's job. - i actually appreciate the concept of modularized and specialized tools, that are connected over a soundsever instead of a monolithic 'it can do everything' tool. however, since LASH and its precedessor LADCCA don't have the same level support in each software, that could be used in a studio environment, it's kinda hard to manage projects. - there is not audio editor around, that even loosely fulfills my needs. probably the makers of Elephants Dream felt the same. Some of them lack native jack support, others use very strange sets of shortcuts, or are pretty raw in general. Every audio app has their own strange shortcuts, Logic is quite strange for example. That's mostly a matter of learning them. It would be nice if they used the standard key commands for the OS tho. yo, those are just a few reasons why the makers of Elephants Dream may didn't want to go for FOSS for the sound part. i hope it's only a question of waiting some years, until the audio world gets to similar level as blender reached in the 3d world. Ardour is definitely comparable to blender, if not better. I think it was more a matter of finding someone who was willing to work for very little money on the project who would use free tools. Being the Blender Foundation, their focus was the 3D part, understandably, so it wasn't a big deal to use proprietary software for the audio. Now that they have proven the model for getting projects done, I think there is no real excuse not to use all FOSS for the whole project. I talked with Bassam Kurdali, the Director of Elephants Dream, about this and that's pretty much what he said. I think that they want to do it all FOSS, they just need people willing to do the work. So let's do the work! :D .hc roman On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 09:31 +0100, Georg Holzmann wrote: Hallo! it's sad, but especially for mastering tasks i still have to stick with proprietary tools on a proprietary operating system, since working with foss tools is still way far from being as efficient as with the tools that are usually used in studios. Did you try Ardour+Jamin ? I did some recording projects with it in summer and it just worked quite well ... it works similar like a protools setup. LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http:// messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sound for blender apricot opensource game
On Feb 2, 2008, at 9:11 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 20:04 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Yeah, I'd love to help out where I can. I was really bummed that Elephants Dream didn't use FOSS for sound, I think they didn't try hard enough. I've done a lot of very reliable installations using Pd, if it is good enough for the NY Times lobby, it's good enough for Blender. :) it's not about reliability, it's probably more about workflow. i agree with the makers of Elephants Dream, that it's hard to find FOSS software for advanced sound editing. i speak from frustrating personal experience. i've spent hours trying to find even only an appropriate sound editor and it makes me sad to see, that so many people work on so many different projects, but none of them is actually usuable in a professional environment (and noone seems to want to bundle the energy with others). i also noticed, that in the audio foss world some people tend to stick to elitism and don't want to work on making things more usuable (just hang a day around in #alsa). i don't want to generalize that, but that was my experience outside the nice and friendly pd- world. it's sad, but especially for mastering tasks i still have to stick with proprietary tools on a proprietary operating system, since working with foss tools is still way far from being as efficient as with the tools that are usually used in studios. i am no expert in 3d world, but i think that this doesn't apply to blender as much. it seems to me that blender is a very advanced software. but back to pd: no matter how cool pd is, you wouldn't want to use it to edit a radio jingle with many layers to exactly a certain lenght with mastering (compressing/ limiting etc), would you? Blender lacks some standard tools that all of the big ones have (Maya, 3D Studio, etc) and yet they made amazing animations with it. A core reason for that project was to figure out the problems with Blender in a production environment and work on improving them. It is a shame they did not take the same approach with the audio. The synthesis was done using Reactor, for example. I think that Pd is pretty clearly a more capable real-time synth than Reactor, but yes, it's rough around the edges. As for mastering, I did a lot of work as a sound designer in Sound Forge/Windows back in 2000, and now I use Audacity. Admittedly, I don't do super elaborate mastering. I will say that Audacity could use more polishing and some efficiency tweaks, and a fancier GUI might be useful. But bottom line, it gets the job done. If the idea of the movie was to be a free/open project, I think it was a copout to use proprietary tools for audio. Audacity now is better than Sound Forge was in 2000. Lots of professionals were using Sound Forge in 2000, using Audacity now you'll be better off than them. .hc As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools
On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 13:25 -0500, marius schebella wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: yo, those are just a few reasons why the makers of Elephants Dream may didn't want to go for FOSS for the sound part. i hope it's only a question of waiting some years, until the audio world gets to similar level as blender reached in the 3d world. roman Hmm, one more reason: elephant's dream was a blender project. some of the grant money went into core development of blender itself to adjust it to production features. one of the goals of the film was, to see whether blender would pass the ready for a real film exam. blender people just did not have the budget (and goal) to develop on the sound side, too. yo, would be nice to see some development/budget going into audio as well, since from my experience it isn't quite possible yet to do real everyday audio work with FOSS tools. btw, blender forum has about 30.000 registered users. pd maybe 1000-3000??? where do you want to go with this question? i like pd, otherwise i wouldn't use it. the fact that i like pd for what it is doesn't automatically turn it into an audio editing suite and i am not complaining about pd. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools (was: sound for blender apricot opensource game)
On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 12:14 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Ardour is definitely comparable to blender, if not better. I think it was more a matter of finding someone who was willing to work for very little money on the project who would use free tools. Being the Blender Foundation, their focus was the 3D part, understandably, so it wasn't a big deal to use proprietary software for the audio. Now that they have proven the model for getting projects done, I think there is no real excuse not to use all FOSS for the whole project. let me change that to: 'there is no real excuse not to develop FOSS audio tools'. I talked with Bassam Kurdali, the Director of Elephants Dream, about this and that's pretty much what he said. I think that they want to do it all FOSS, they just need people willing to do the work. So let's do the work! :D do the development work, yes. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] FOSS audio tools
Roman Haefeli wrote: btw, blender forum has about 30.000 registered users. pd maybe 1000-3000??? where do you want to go with this question? i like pd, otherwise i wouldn't use it. the fact that i like pd for what it is doesn't automatically turn it into an audio editing suite and i am not complaining about pd. I only posted the numbers to compare/show why blender gets more money, focus, and has more developers than pd. it is possible that blender will produce 10 more films before pd gets a comparable amount of development money from the European Union (where most of the budget for elephants dream came from...). I am not complaining about Pd at all! marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sound for blender apricot opensource game
On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 12:08 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Blender lacks some standard tools that all of the big ones have (Maya, 3D Studio, etc) and yet they made amazing animations with it. A core reason for that project was to figure out the problems with Blender in a production environment and work on improving them. It is a shame they did not take the same approach with the audio. The synthesis was done using Reactor, for example. I think that Pd is pretty clearly a more capable real-time synth than Reactor, but yes, it's rough around the edges. and it's also a decision about how much time you are willing to invest. i wouldn't be suprised, if you come quicker to a satisfying result using reaktor than with pd. for my personal projects the factor time hasn't the highest priority, but it might have for projects like elephants dream. As for mastering, I did a lot of work as a sound designer in Sound Forge/Windows back in 2000, and now I use Audacity. Admittedly, I don't do super elaborate mastering. I will say that Audacity could use more polishing and some efficiency tweaks, and a fancier GUI might be useful. But bottom line, it gets the job done. i disagree, but it would go to far to mention everything in detail. from my experience, i _had_ to go back to proprietary world to get certain jobs done. that's why i assumed, this might apply also to the makers of elephants dream. without knowing what the exact reasons for their decision was, i wanted to say, that i _understand_ them. If the idea of the movie was to be a free/open project, I think it was a copout to use proprietary tools for audio. Audacity now is better than Sound Forge was in 2000. Lots of professionals were using Sound Forge in 2000, using Audacity now you'll be better off than them. i like the idea of pushing development by funded projects. for their next production it would be cool to see some effect from that on the audio side as well. prove me wrong, but i sometimes have the feeling it's more a question about mentality than about resources. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] this is crazy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: do you see something unusual in this patch? i don't even see the patch! i have never noticed anything like that .. feel free to write your own (known to be good) version of [testosc~] and run the procedure as described in my email. fgamdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fwd: any tips on fart synthesis?
Number 5 sounds pretty good Matt. Something right about
the filter resonance.
Listening to cartoon examples the pitch always seems
to rise then fall.
But then SFX are often not what they seem, possibly
a whoopee custion/balloon or like Marius said, a
trick with water bottles.
The basic waveform is most definitely pulse shaped though.
On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:06:00 +0900
hard off [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.m-pi.com/farts.mp3
^
here's some i synthesized this morning. mainly just simple waveforms
run through delayed feedback to get a bit of unsynced wobble, and then
the waveshaping patch i will attach to this mail.
my original thoughts about the wet filter didn't yield such good
results, although that might have been because the one i made only has
fairly short delay lines.
the farts i made a fairly crap ('scuse the pun), but kind of
fart-likehowever once i tried to lengthen the sound and play it
melodically like in that track, it didn't work at all.
why not contact the author of that track and ask how they did it?
'excuse me, may i ask how you make your farts? ..etc
i reckon they're probably samples, but a good synthesis method is also
possible without a doubt.
--
Use the source
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[PD] optional argument in abstraction
hi, I want to create an abstraction that can take an optional symbol as argument. if there is a symbol argument then use this, if not then use a default symbol. for example [my_print hello_world!] would print hello_world! [my_print] (without argument) would print default_text [my_print 0] or [my_print 123] would also print default_text. I tried all variations of route, select, list trim, but could not get it to work. maybe I forgot something. or maybe there is another trick. I am using 0.40. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] LPN_folderglider Tot question.
just wondering if there is anyone out there who uses the LPN_folderglider abstraction. i have found it to be extremely useful however i have come across a little glitch. i am trying to understand how it chooses to order files from a folder 'sequentially'. it doesn't seem to follow a logical way, ie alphabetically or numerically. Correct me if this is crazy talk, but it seems to output based on the inode number of the file rather than the number of the file. Of course i am using linux where this seems to be designed on windows, so there is probably something in that. if there is anyone out there who has an explanation for this, i would be most intrigued. cheers, ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] optional argument in abstraction
here's a dirty one, but works. hi, I want to create an abstraction that can take an optional symbol as argument. if there is a symbol argument then use this, if not then use a default symbol. for example [my_print hello_world!] would print hello_world! [my_print] (without argument) would print default_text [my_print 0] or [my_print 123] would also print default_text. I tried all variations of route, select, list trim, but could not get it to work. maybe I forgot something. or maybe there is another trick. I am using 0.40. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin Deutschland Tel +49 30 42020091 Mob +49 162 6843570 [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: jmmmpjmmmp http://www.puredata.org/Members/jmmmp IBM Thinkpad R51, XP, Pd-Ext-0.39-2-t5, Pd Van 0.40-t2 my_print.pd Description: Binary data ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] New on ubuntu: where to go now
Hi, I'm, again, going to try to step into linux world, and see if I can do something more useful with it than visiting webforums this time. I wanted to ask if someone had any tips for the following configuration to work with Pd (both vanilla and extended), and maybe later also supercollider, both only for audio: - ibm thinkpad r51 - Ubuntu 7.10 - rme multiface - intuos3 tablet - arduino board (old model) Any hints useful for these specs? Are there any guides worth visiting? Which repositories should I be checking? How to get -1ms latency? Does Ubuntu studio makes a difference? Why is jack so complicated to start? Is ardour already working? (last time I saw it in the school's studio, the only way to have a session open for a long time was not to touch it) ... ... . . . I'm not a beginner with computers, but I'm not yet very at ease in unix console, because quite soon it gets very frustrating - although I would like to learn, but don't have time to be spending on man pages. And I don't do emacs, or won't go straight to debian. Thanks for your help, João Pais -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin Deutschland Tel +49 30 42020091 Mob +49 162 6843570 [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: jmmmpjmmmp http://www.puredata.org/Members/jmmmp IBM Thinkpad R51, XP, Pd-Ext-0.39-2-t5, Pd Van 0.40-t2 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] optional argument in abstraction
great! the [sel $1] did the trick. otoh, the route symbol does not do anything... here is what I ended up using... [loadbang] | [symbol $1] | [sel $1] | | | [default_symbol( / | / |/ [symbol $1] | [print] thanks, marius. João Miguel Pais wrote: here's a dirty one, but works. hi, I want to create an abstraction that can take an optional symbol as argument. if there is a symbol argument then use this, if not then use a default symbol. for example [my_print hello_world!] would print hello_world! [my_print] (without argument) would print default_text [my_print 0] or [my_print 123] would also print default_text. I tried all variations of route, select, list trim, but could not get it to work. maybe I forgot something. or maybe there is another trick. I am using 0.40. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] multiple audio device
On 4 Feb 2008, at 4:43 AM, Ypatios Grigoriadis wrote: Do you really need multiple devices (soundcards)? From your email I understand that you just need the 8 outputs from your RME. if you really do need both the RME and, say, the built in audio for some reason you could use the OSX audio system to do the combining (explore Aggregate Devices via Audio Midi Setup utility, discussed several times on this list) this has worked for me - using Jack, a cheapish external USB sound device and the Built-in output, on a G4- MacMini simon ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] A Call for works / Appel d’oeuvres - Cana dian 60x60
(Une version française est aussi disponible) * Call for Works for the first Canadian 60x60 Project (2008)* Vox Novus, in collaboration with the Canadian Electroacoustic Community (CEC), is inviting composers to submit recorded works 60 seconds or less in duration to be included in the first Canadian version of the annual 60x60 project. 60 compositions will be selected to be played continuously in a one-hour concert. The Canadian 60x60 concert season will begin with a debut in Montréal and continue throughout Canada in venues to be announced. Concerts may also include a visual component (a clock, video clips, spectrographs, dance, etc.). The works will also be broadcasted on radio stations and featured on a Sonus.ca dedicated gallery. Please submit your recorded work(s) and submission form(s) before 31 March (postmarked). You may submit your works online or on a CDR; see submission guidelines below. Your work may be selected for both the Canadian and the International 60x60 projects. During the concert each of the 60 pieces selected will begin precisely at the beginning of the minute, this will mark the end of one piece and the beginning of another. There will be no pause between the pieces. Works may be less than 60 seconds in length, but may not exceed 60 seconds. Selected works that are shorter than 60 seconds will be padded with silence either before, after, or surrounding the composition. Please note that the total duration of the work including silence may NOT exceed sixty seconds. Eligibility: The call is open to composers of all ages and career stages who live in Canada, and to Canadian composers living in Canada or abroad. All other composers may participate in the international 60x60 project (see below). Eligible works: Any sound or music captured on recorded media, which does not require live performers for its presentation in concert. The piece may be of any style and may comprise electronic sounds, field recordings, recordings of voice or musical instruments, or other sound sources. Recordings of acoustic compositions SHOULD NOT be accompanied by musical scores. Works submitted should be created specifically for this project and must not have been previously performed or broadcasted. More information can be found at: http://www.60x60.yaeldad.com (Canadian 60x60) http://www.voxnovus.com/60x60.htm (International 60x60) http://cec.concordia.ca (Canadian Electroacoustic Community) http://sonus.ca (SONUS, the CEC's online electroacoustic Jukebox) SUBMISSION GUIDELINES 1. Pieces should be submitted as uncompressed audio files (WAV or AIFF); priority will be given to works submitted in a 24-bit format and a sampling rate of 48 kHz (or higher); however, all works will be considered. Name your files in the following manner: Last name_First initial_Title of the piece (for example Doe_J_Untitled.wav) 2. Multiple works may be submitted, however, each work must be accompanied by a submission form in an electronic format ONLY (DOC, TXT, PDF) ; name the form in the following format: Last name_First initial_Title_Form (example: Doe_J_Untitled_Form.doc) 3. For each piece, please include an Info document (DOC, PDF, TXT) with a short biography and program notes (not longer than 100 words each); name the file in the following manner: Last name_First initial_Title_Info (example: Doe_J_Untitled_Info.doc) 4. Optional: If you wish to have your work included in Sonus, the CEC's online Jukebox, please additionally complete the following steps. A gallery will be created to feature works from the Canadian 60x60 project: a. Fill out a CEC contract here: http://sonus.ca/contracts ; b. In the Contributor's Statement section of the contract, please select for inclusion in Sonus; c. Indicate in your 60x60 submission form whether a Sonus contract was signed. 5. For each submitted piece, create a folder named in the following format (Last name_First initial_Title) or a compressed file (ZIP, RAR, ACE, etc) named similarly, which includes the piece, the submission form, and the Info document. 6. You may submit your pieces online or on a CDR to the address below. Online Submission: 1. Upload each piece's folder or compressed file to the following FTP server: Host name: ftp://yaeldad.com User Name: canadian (all lowercase) Password: 60x60 2. Send a an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the following subject: Canadian 60x60 FTP submission: Last Name, First initial, Piece Title 3. Alternately, you may make your compressed file available online at a website of your choice and send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the URL to download it. CDR Submission: 1. Burn all submitted pieces (a separate folder or compressed file for each) on a single CDR. 2. All information should be included in an electronic format on the CDR; do not send paper copies. 3. The CDR must be labeled with the composer's name and email address. 4.
Re: [PD] New on ubuntu: where to go now
Hi, I mainly use Ubuntu Studio 7.10 myself and figured I might have something to share. -- Debian/testing and Ubuntu Gutsy (Intel i386 processor) installs fine. Download it from, http://puredata.info/downloads it is the 3rd on the list. With Ubuntu 7.10, just double click on the downloaded file and the system will do the rest of the installation. -- When launching PD, I recall the console claiming that certain libraries were missing. You can use Synaptic package manager from the pull-down menu to search and install packages with associating names. One of them requiring and extra step I think was the jasper library. In addition to installing it, I had to manually create a symbolic link so that the file PD-extended searches for exists. (However, this procedure maybe unnecessary until you use whatever external calls for this library) -- There were some discussions on this list that the non-RT kernal seemed to have better performance under 7.10 I have not confirmed it myself but it may come in handy to have both RT and non-RT kernals installed. When you have both of them, you can simply choose which to use on each startup. -- Other personal thoughts.. I wanted to stay with Debian, but am currently using Ubuntu 7.10. While making my setup, I also had the goal to deside which is currently the easiest Linux distro for beginning PD (and Linux) users to work on. There were mainly two issues that made things difficult with Debian. - FreeBOB not included in current stable release. (Or did not recognize my Edirol FA-66) - Too much hassle to get an RT ready kernal prepared. -- If you do plan to use Supercollider on Linux, it is likely you may have to study Emacs. The default environment to run Supercollider is provided in the form of an Emacs template. -- I think it is worth learning basic commands of the vi text editor. Practicing only the following 10 commands (and making it a habit to editing text in vi) may take you miles further in Linux world. a, i, o, dd, yy, p, :w, :q, :q!, :wq! -- David Shimamoto Hi, I'm, again, going to try to step into linux world, and see if I can do something more useful with it than visiting webforums this time. I wanted to ask if someone had any tips for the following configuration to work with Pd (both vanilla and extended), and maybe later also supercollider, both only for audio: - ibm thinkpad r51 - Ubuntu 7.10 - rme multiface - intuos3 tablet - arduino board (old model) Any hints useful for these specs? Are there any guides worth visiting? Which repositories should I be checking? How to get -1ms latency? Does Ubuntu studio makes a difference? Why is jack so complicated to start? Is ardour already working? (last time I saw it in the school's studio, the only way to have a session open for a long time was not to touch it) ... ... . . . I'm not a beginner with computers, but I'm not yet very at ease in unix console, because quite soon it gets very frustrating - although I would like to learn, but don't have time to be spending on man pages. And I don't do emacs, or won't go straight to debian. Thanks for your help, João Pais ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] multiple audio device
On 4 Feb 2008, at 3:24 PM, simon wise wrote: On 4 Feb 2008, at 4:43 AM, Ypatios Grigoriadis wrote: Do you really need multiple devices (soundcards)? From your email I understand that you just need the 8 outputs from your RME. if you really do need both the RME and, say, the built in audio for some reason you could use the OSX audio system to do the combining (explore Aggregate Devices via Audio Midi Setup utility, discussed several times on this list) this has worked for me - using Jack, a cheapish external USB sound device and the Built-in output, on a G4- MacMini sorry, wrong OS, but I think those discussions also mentioneded a way to do it on Windows simon ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
