Re: [PD] latency solutions... and then some
2010/1/31 Derek Holzer de...@umatic.nl Unnoticeable latency usually refers to the musician not noticing the difference in time between when they press the key and when the sound comes out. Any time you add a delayed signal to the original signal, you will notice it. The slap-back happens at longer latencies, but at shorter latencies you will hear *very* noticeable comb-filtering. And since no computer-based solution is latency-free, I think you need to re-examine what you are expecting Pd to do. I think it is a reasonable expectation that you don't have to play a note one 16th early to have it sound 'on the beat', which is what one has to do when dealing with 23 ms latency in a 163 bpm piece. Attached is a little patch that shows some rhythmical implications of any given soundcard latency in ms. gr, Tim Either that, or go with a dedicated DSP board (and learn the accompanying programming!) which would give you a more guitar-pedal-like zero-latency system. Maybe Marco Donnarumma could give a few words here on processing instruments live. His set uses an electric bass through Pd. My guess is that even the un-processed signal goes through Pd to avoid echos or comb filtering due to latency. Best, Derek Jeffrey Concepcion wrote: * in terms of processor capacity, hardware, and sound card configuration, what would be the minimum requirements to achieve unnoticeable latency (not hear the affected signal as a slap-back type of effect)? i've read that 11ms can be achieved and is unnoticeable. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 18: Balance the consistency principle with the inconsistency principle ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list latency_musical_meaning.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Loop object
Hi Jerome, Maybe try [susloop~] ? thats what I use cheers m On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Jerome Covington i...@thespacebetweenthewords.org wrote: Looking at the [loop~] help example but am unable to create any noise. When I click on array 2 in play mode the following is logged in the console. error: conflicting block~ objects in same page play~'s error: no such array '0-table' play~'s error: no such array '1-table' play~'s error: no such array '2-table' play~'s error: no such array '3-table' Is there an issue with this example? (Entirely possible that it is perfect, and that I am to blame.) Are there other useful examples of the [loop~] object? -- Regards, Jerome Covington . . . . : . . . . : define audio development ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- mark edward grimm | m.f.a | ed.m syracuse u. | vpa foundations | timearts adjunct | new media consultant megrimm.net | socialmediagroup.org mgr...@syr.edu | 315.378.2136 _ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] dynamic gui masking problem
Hi again With the help of IOhannes and matju I was finally able to find a solution for this problem. There *is* actually a way of dynamically remove single objects without causing errors (thanks IOhannes): By using [canvasdelete] from the iemguts. It allows to delete certain objects of a certain canvas by their index number (for instance, 'delete 12'). The canvas needs a [canvasdelete] in order to add the 'delete' method to the canvas and a [sendcanvas] to which the 'delete id' message is sent. Then I ran into another problem: I was creating [cnv] objects in a GOP and moving them out of the GOP area, which is a way to display something in the parent patch outside the GOP area. However, when deleting such gui objects, they remain visible in the parent (as if the parent wouldn't be refreshed). Switching workspaces forth and back or minimizing/maximizing the parent patch made them disappear. Running pd with -d 2 (matju's suggestion) revealed, that canvasses are receiving a 'map 0; map 1;' sequence in order to refresh them on maximizing or switching workspaces. Sending those messages to the parent patch after dynamically deleting gui objects in the outside-gop-area made them finally also disappear in the parent patch. Attached is an updated example, that exploits those features. Roman On Mon, 2010-03-15 at 00:20 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: Hi all I'm trying to create a GOP abstraction for selecting an item from a list. The cool thing about GOP is, that iemguis are still visible, even if they are moved outside the GOP area. However, the problem I'm facing is that they are masked by other objects in the patch, when they are moved to area of some other object. A Solution: Dynamically creating objects on the fly makes them appear above all other objects in the patch.Unfortunately I couldn't figure out a way to delete them to make them disappear, when they're not needed anymore. Probably there is another way of tweaking the z-index of objects? Or is there a way to dynamically delete objects without having to 'vis' a canvas and putting it into edit mode (and without printing errors to the console)? Attached is an example patch to illustrate the masking problem. list.selector.tar.gz Description: application/compressed-tar ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~ broken interpolation algorithm - was Re:, Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
You're trying to restrict the analysis to a convenient (but reasonable)
class of signals, and to assume that the signal to be interpolated, x,
belongs to that class. Right?
Well, sort of. What works well as an interpolator for one signal may
not work well for another. The point I started from was asking the
question, what would make a good measure of the error when we use a
given interpolator?
So, if I just wanted to average across all frequencies the squared
error, I thought the problem would be equivaled to this one:
E=|f(x)-sinc(x)|^2 is minimized when
f(x)={sinc(x) -2x2 ,0 elsewhere
And then it's the same as having an operator acting on a flat spectrum signal.
It doesn't make any sense, as far as I can see, to assume that the signal
being interpolated belongs to the class of function whose spectrum has a
flat modulus (and any phase).
Why not assuming then, for example, that x(t) is a constant?
(please don't take my tone as sarchastic)
What does make some sense (it is a strong hypothesis but discussing its
plausibility would bring the discussion to a much higher level) is to treat
the signal x as a stochastic process with a given power spectrum - such as
flat, or pink.
So, I assumed the signal spectrum flat so that I could average over
all the frequencies. True it doesn't fit the actual use cases and
give us the error in a signal we'd actually like to see--it's just
sort of a toy problem, but it goes back to the reason why we're
looking at it in the first place, to consider what happens when we
just choose one measure (L2 normed error in signal reconstruction
averaged across all frequencies) and then find the best result.
This class of functions to consider is useful if we're going for
rigourous math here... but maybe we've strayed too far outside the
topic and should just stick to calculus?
Suppose we choose our metric and work it out. If the correct result
doesn't behave well or doesn't fit our criteria, then how should we
create a better measure?
But that means that the quantity you're minimizing is no longer an integral
of the signal minus some other signal all squared: it is the expectation of
something.
The power spectrum of a stochastic process x(t) is not the fourier transform
of x(t), it is the fourier transform of tha autocorrelation function of x
(or something like that).
The hardest class I ever had was stochastic analysis (as recent as 4
years ago), where we solved problems like this. Fundamentally, it's
not too hard, but the details of the calculus are tricky. I'd prefer
to stay away unless there's a real good reason to do so :)
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[PD] Spectral Shiffting
Hi folks, I'd lke to distort a sound spectrum by transposing partials the way I want. Like making the spectrum more inharmonic or harmonic. Anyone done something similar? What kind of processing should I use? I was thinking that maybe a Phase Vocoder, where you could control the frequency separately, huh!?!? Anyone did this by the way? thanks a lot Alex ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Spectral Shiffting
There's a method of tuning partials that William Sethares uses in his compositionss and he talks about it in his book Tuning Timbre Spectrum Scale. Specifically, he was also using inharmonic instruments which would be arranged into consonant scales, and the similar problem of using arbitrary scales with inharmonic spectra to fit with least dissonance. I know I read the spectral mapping technique he uses, but I didn't really understand how it works. On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Alexandre Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, I'd lke to distort a sound spectrum by transposing partials the way I want. Like making the spectrum more inharmonic or harmonic. Anyone done something similar? What kind of processing should I use? I was thinking that maybe a Phase Vocoder, where you could control the frequency separately, huh!?!? Anyone did this by the way? thanks a lot Alex ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Spectral Shiffting
I know I read the spectral mapping technique he uses, but I didn't really understand how it works. me neither, guess he didn't really explained it wel... cheers 2010/4/2 Charles Henry czhe...@gmail.com There's a method of tuning partials that William Sethares uses in his compositionss and he talks about it in his book Tuning Timbre Spectrum Scale. Specifically, he was also using inharmonic instruments which would be arranged into consonant scales, and the similar problem of using arbitrary scales with inharmonic spectra to fit with least dissonance. I know I read the spectral mapping technique he uses, but I didn't really understand how it works. On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Alexandre Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, I'd lke to distort a sound spectrum by transposing partials the way I want. Like making the spectrum more inharmonic or harmonic. Anyone done something similar? What kind of processing should I use? I was thinking that maybe a Phase Vocoder, where you could control the frequency separately, huh!?!? Anyone did this by the way? thanks a lot Alex ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] LoMus 2010 | Submissions was extended to the april 15th
LoMus 2010 __ Sorry for multiple and cross postings __ The dead line for software submission was extended to the April 15th __ In search of open-source software for musical and intermedia creation For its third edition, Lomus 2010 invites music and audio open-source software creators to submit original projects that either directly or indirectly contribute to musical creation. In regard to one of the 2 themes for JIM's edition : The musical work and heterogeneity : the problem of mixity, the LoMus contest will particularly encourage sonic/musical softwares integrating or hibridizing with other media. Though, this theme is not restrictive. A prize will be awarded to open-source sofware that prove to be not only innovatory but also inventive in the present context of music and audio creation. Calendar Call for submissions : February 4th 2010 Submission deadline : April 15th 2010 Admission notification : May 1st 2010 JIM Awards Ceremony : May 20th 2010 info : concours.afim-asso.org JIM2010 : http://jim.afim-asso.org/ocs/index.php/jims/index __ À la recherche des logiciels libres pour la création sonore et intermedia Pour sa troisième édition, Lomus 2010 s’adresse à tous ceux qui s’aventurent dans le développement de logiciels libres musicaux ou de logiciels libres qui peuvent contribuer au processus de la création musicale. En regard d'un des 2 thèmes mis en avant lors de cette édition des JIMs : L'Œuvre musicale face à l'hétérogène : problématique de la mixité, le concours LoMus encourage plus particulièrement les contributions intégrant ou s'hybridant avec d'autres médias. Ce thème n'est cependant pas restrictif. Un prix sera remis aux logiciels qui font preuve non seulement d'innovation, mais notamment d'inventivité face aux enjeux actuels de la création musicale. Calendrier Appel à soumissions : 4 février 2010 Soumission des logiciels : 15 avril 2010 Notification d'acceptation : 1 mai 2010 Remise du prix lors des JIM : 20 mai 2010 info : concours.afim-asso.org JIM2010 : http://jim.afim-asso.org/ocs/index.php/jims/index ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] OS X 10.6: unplugging headphones crashes Pd
I don't know why Gem is building against it. Its used in other things. It could at least be a path to 64-bit support for Gem for those who don't need the Quicktime stuff. I'd guess IOhannes is the one to ask. .hc On Apr 1, 2010, at 5:33 PM, chris clepper wrote: gmerlin should not be used on the Mac, so why is it even there? On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: Hmm, I've seen this with libfaad.0.dylib too. The file is there, right? Can you include the whole error message? there should be a line above it. .hc On Apr 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Max wrote: that one can't load gem on my machine: Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-0.42.5-extended-20100401.app/ Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/../../lib/libgmerlin_avdec.1.dylib Reason: image not found Gem: can't load library m. Am 31.03.2010 um 17:44 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M .hc On Mar 31, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Max wrote: do you mean Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx105-i386.dmg20-Jan-2010 10:19 39M or Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M ? Am 30.03.2010 um 23:20 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Try a nightly build of Pd-extended 0.42.5, I updated the portaudio code, which I think tries to address these issues. .hc On Mar 30, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Max wrote: i can _not_ reproduce that with *any* patch here. the sound is gone after unplugging headphones, but disabling it an re-enabeling it in the Pd window makes the Sound come back on the internal speakers. Not the desired way but no crash or freeze either. m. Am 30.03.2010 um 16:00 schrieb Derek Holzer: Well, in my workshop, *any* patch would do it no sense in posting one. D. On 3/30/10 3:34 PM, Max wrote: it's not fixed by the OS update. i only had this phenomenon if GEM was involved too and submitted that to the bugtracker a while ago http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=2929298group_id=55736atid=478070 if you can make a patch where GEM is not involved and it still crashes with Pd when the phone is unplugged then that would be good to post here. max Am 30.03.2010 um 02:36 schrieb Nils Sundtrom: I had garageband crash when I unplugged the headphones yesterday, I wonder if there update today fixed the issue. Nils On 10-03-27 11:00 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Yeah, I've seen some Leopard issues with audio too. I blame Apple ;). I think the issue is in portaudio, so hopefully that will get fixed, then I can update it in Pd-extended. Have anyone on 10.6 tried a recently 0.42.5 nightly? .hc On Mar 26, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Had the same problem with my students. Jack seems to work well for most of them, but few still have random crash. M On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Derek Holzerde...@umatic.nl wrote: Sorry for the added noise, this meant for the Pd list, not Pd- announce... D. On 3/26/10 3:27 PM, Derek Holzer wrote: This is a new one to me, but four of my students can reproduce it every time with Mac OS 10.6, with or without JACK, using Pd-Extended 0.41.4. Unplugging or plugging the headphones while Pd is running freezes Pd completely, requiring a Force Quit. It does this regardless of whether audio processing is turned on or off. I tried looking at Aggregate Devices, however the built-in output already appears as one device. Anybody know how to fix this one? D. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 161: Trust in the you of now ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique
Re: [PD] Spectral Shiffting
frequency shifting and then pitch shifting by the same amount in hertz will compress or expand a spectrum around a particular frequency (which could or could not be the fundamental...) J On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Alexandre Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: I know I read the spectral mapping technique he uses, but I didn't really understand how it works. me neither, guess he didn't really explained it wel... cheers 2010/4/2 Charles Henry czhe...@gmail.com There's a method of tuning partials that William Sethares uses in his compositionss and he talks about it in his book Tuning Timbre Spectrum Scale. Specifically, he was also using inharmonic instruments which would be arranged into consonant scales, and the similar problem of using arbitrary scales with inharmonic spectra to fit with least dissonance. I know I read the spectral mapping technique he uses, but I didn't really understand how it works. On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Alexandre Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, I'd lke to distort a sound spectrum by transposing partials the way I want. Like making the spectrum more inharmonic or harmonic. Anyone done something similar? What kind of processing should I use? I was thinking that maybe a Phase Vocoder, where you could control the frequency separately, huh!?!? Anyone did this by the way? thanks a lot Alex ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR www.jaimeoliver.pe 858 750 0924 (cel) 858 202 1522 (home) 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Spectral Shiffting
Hey Alex I'm not sure if this is what you're after, but have a look in the help browser for: 3.audio.examples/D08.table.spectrum This is basically a bank of oscillators reading their own specific pitches from a single table. Perhaps use: FFT to feed the table and [sigmund~] to set the pitch. Orchange the arguments in [spectrum_partial] in [pd oscbank] so you can manipulate the partials more precisely (you could add an inlet or a recieve to control these from somewhere else in your patch). Hope this helps. Andrew Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 15:38:15 -0400 From: por...@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Subject: [PD] Spectral Shiffting Hi folks, I'd lke to distort a sound spectrum by transposing partials the way I want. Like making the spectrum more inharmonic or harmonic. Anyone done something similar? What kind of processing should I use? I was thinking that maybe a Phase Vocoder, where you could control the frequency separately, huh!?!? Anyone did this by the way? thanks a lotAlex _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] strange colors with pix_record
that version of GEM GEM: ver: 0.92.2 GEM: compiled: Jan 20 2010 unfortunately doesn't have a pix_recordQT pix_recordQT ... couldn't create m. Am 01.04.2010 um 21:25 schrieb chris clepper: The Quicktime code being used in recent GEM builds is not the code I wrote, and does not work that well. Can you try pix_recordQT and see if that loads? On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Max abonneme...@revolwear.com wrote: Hi List, i wonder why i get these strange colors when using pix_record with GEM ver: 0.92.2 compiled: Jan 20 2010 on OS X 10.6.3 Any Ideas? this is grayscale in GEM but instead it is quite blue in the recorded quicktime. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pd~ and DIO errors
Hi all, I have a rather heavy patch which causes DIO errors when I switch~ on several subpatches. I'm running pd + Jack on a rt kernel (ubuntu-studio Hardy),... Jack shows little or no Xruns. Now I wanted to try and optimize the patch by using [pd~]. The way I understood it is that [pd~] will start a subprocess and it will (automatically ?) divide the audio computation load over multiple processors. However, I get the impression that by using [pd~] I get the same (or even worse) results as with my regular abstraction / [switch~] approach; DIO error crackles. Any advice very welcome! Thanks, Tim ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd~ and DIO errors
hi tim, just to be sure, do you use the -rt flag when starting pd? also, try to run everything (jack, pd) in root (just to see if the glitches is the cause of a limitation). pat ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Spectral Shiffting
here's a frequency shifter that slur posted on the pd forum a little while ago: http://puredata.hurleur.com/viewtopic.php?pid=16842#p16842 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
