Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
On 04/25/2013 04:36 PM, o...@onyx-ashanti.com wrote: Thanks for getting back to me do quickly. Is there a network audio object (s) that can output standard formatted audio? i've started writing an RTP infrastructure for Pd [1], though it currently only supports uncompressed audio. RTP is a pretty standard protocol, and latency can go down to a few ms. there are also RTCP components. keep in mind though, that this is not a plug-and-play object, but instead a framework (so you might need to know what RTP is and ow it works in order to get it do what you want). whether it works in browser or not, i don't know. keep in mind, that browsers are still mainly consumer goods, and as such latency doesn't matter so much (if you only listen to a stream on a remote place it doesn't matter if it is 10ms behind or 2mins - since there is no feedback and nothing to compare with, tere is no absolute time) gfamdr IOhannes [1] https://github.com/iem-projects/pd-iemrtp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
IOhannes zmölnig wrote: i've started writing an RTP infrastructure for Pd [1], though it currently only supports uncompressed audio. RTP is a pretty standard protocol, and latency can go down to a few ms. there are also RTCP components. May I add that firewalls have a tendency to kill RTP/RTCP, too. Don't expect it to work everywhere. Just like active FTP some years ago. Cheers, Charles ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] batteries for audio cards
hey folks, anyone have recomendations for battery packs for audio cards? wanna try some stuff going mobile, anybody doing that? Looking for some high capacity for my multiface/RME (takes 9-.12V, 2A) thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Issue with csoundapi~ on Pure Data
Hello, I see no one is able to help me about this issue; anyway, it seems this issue occurs only with PD Extended v. 0.43.4 (I also reported this on PD's Sourceforge page). Using PD Vanilla v. 0.44, Csound API works but I can't set ASIO4ALL as audio driver. In this case, how can I solve the matter? From: cangio...@hotmail.it To: pd-list@iem.at Subject: Issue with csoundapi~ on Pure Data Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 23:26:52 +0200 Hello all, yesterday, I installed PD Extended to start experimenting the implementation of Csound in PD. On PD's preferences, I set C:\Program Files\Csound\bin as search path for csoundapi~.dll The issue is when I open Victor Lazzarini's project from C:\Program Files\Csound\examples\csoundapi_tilde, PD freezes and, when I terminate PD's process from Task Manager, Windows crashes and reboots. How to solve this? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] batteries for audio cards
Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: hey folks, anyone have recomendations for battery packs for audio cards? wanna try some stuff going mobile, anybody doing that? Looking for some high capacity for my multiface/RME (takes 9-.12V, 2A) If it can take up to 13.4V (it's likely there's a voltage regulator inside), you can try Lead Acid batteries, like in motorcycles. Very cheap, but can be heavy. On the light side, but super expensive, you can try mini model battery packs, like for RC model planes. 3 cells batteries will give you 11.1 volts, 4 cells batteries will give you 14.8 volts. These will give you about 2 hours : http://fr.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=2083824 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] batteries for audio cards
Same here! I'm just concerned some Li-ion/Li-po batteries do not have an over-discharge protection and this could be an issue if you try to recharge a Li* battery that's been drained beyond its inversion voltage. Ask Boeing about this... ;) I doubt this has been included in the RME sound cards since they are built to take almost any kind of low voltage power (AC and DC). http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries Over-discharging Lithium-ion Li-ion should never be discharged too low, and there are several safeguards to prevent this from happening. The equipment cuts off when the battery discharges to about 3.0V/cell, stopping the current flow. If the discharge continues to about 2.70V/cell or lower, the battery’s protection circuit puts the battery into a sleep mode. This renders the pack unserviceable and a recharge with most chargers is not possible. To prevent a battery from falling asleep, apply a partial charge before a long storage period. Battery manufacturers ship batteries with a 40 percent charge. The low charge state reduces aging-related stress while allowing some self-discharge during storage. To minimize the current flow for the protection circuit before the battery is sold, advanced Li-ion packs feature a sleep mode that disables the protection circuit until activated by a brief charge or discharge. Once engaged, the battery remains operational and the on state can no longer be switched back to the standby mode. Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells that can lead to a partial or total electrical short. If recharged, the cells might become unstable, causing excessive heat or showing other anomalies. Li-ion packs that have been under stress are more sensitive to mechanical abuse, such as vibration, dropping and exposure to heat. You need to make sure you have an over-discharge protection that cuts off the power when reaching about 3.2V per cell (3 cell would be between 9.0V and 9.6V). I'm not sure I have this in the pack I use... :/ Some more detail to read when you've set your bedroom on fire ;) http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/pdf/research/rflithiumionbatterieshazard.pdf Lead batteries don't like being over-drained either. It's just not as dangerous to recharge a Pb that's been drained too much. Hope this helps. Cheers Pierre-Olivier On 26/04/2013 18:03, Antoine Villeret wrote: hey, i got a car cigarette lighter plug adaptor with my RME fireface, so just take a 12V Pb battery from a teenager motorcycle and go ! if you need a lighter solution, look at LiPo battery from R/C model cheers a -- do it yourself http://antoine.villeret.free.fr 2013/4/26 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com hey folks, anyone have recomendations for battery packs for audio cards? wanna try some stuff going mobile, anybody doing that? Looking for some high capacity for my multiface/RME (takes 9-.12V, 2A) thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- ~Pierre-Olivier Boulant ~ -o- www.puffskydd.net -o- ~ www.flickr.com/pob31/sets ~ -o-www.lepixophone.net-o- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
- Original Message - From: IOhannes zmölnig zmoel...@iem.at To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 5:21 AM Subject: Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency On 04/25/2013 04:36 PM, o...@onyx-ashanti.com wrote: Thanks for getting back to me do quickly. Is there a network audio object (s) that can output standard formatted audio? i've started writing an RTP infrastructure for Pd [1], though it currently only supports uncompressed audio. RTP is a pretty standard protocol, and latency can go down to a few ms. there are also RTCP components. keep in mind though, that this is not a plug-and-play object, but instead a framework (so you might need to know what RTP is and ow it works in order to get it do what you want). whether it works in browser or not, i don't know. keep in mind, that browsers are still mainly consumer goods, and as such latency doesn't matter so much (if you only listen to a stream on a remote place it doesn't matter if it is 10ms behind or 2mins - since there is no feedback and nothing to compare with, tere is no absolute time) www.webrtc.org/ There's already a working demo for audio/video conferencing with firefox nightly (and maybe chrome). One of the claimed benefits is the ability to connect and send data peer-to-peer with nat traversal, although the claim is made in such a cavalier manner about such a disruptive feature that I'm suspicious there are a thousand catches. -Jonathan gfamdr IOhannes [1] https://github.com/iem-projects/pd-iemrtp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] batteries for audio cards
Hi, batteries have been used for field recording for quite a while. Some discussions on the topic: http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=4.0 These are told to be killer but not cheap batteries: http://www.idxtek.com/ András On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.comwrote: hey folks, anyone have recomendations for battery packs for audio cards? wanna try some stuff going mobile, anybody doing that? Looking for some high capacity for my multiface/RME (takes 9-.12V, 2A) thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
From: katja katjavet...@gmail.com To: o...@onyx-ashanti.com onyxasha...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list Pd-list@iem.at; Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency Hi Onyx, What is your aim, do you want to entertain your (physically present) audience via smart phones instead of PA system? I have a similar quest pending: to send Pd audio from a wearable computer over wireless to PA system. Why not send FUDI to a box connected directly to the PA system? -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] batteries for audio cards
There are the Li-Fe batteries from rc planes or cars. This chemistry is more resilient and at the same time very little self discharge compared to li-on. They do have less kick out, but since you wouldn't need more than 2 or 3 amps you are more then ok. Search for chargers and batteries on hobbyking.com or similar rc sites. The prices are very cheap. No dia 26/04/2013 21:25, András Murányi muran...@gmail.com escreveu: Hi, batteries have been used for field recording for quite a while. Some discussions on the topic: http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=4.0 These are told to be killer but not cheap batteries: http://www.idxtek.com/ András On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hey folks, anyone have recomendations for battery packs for audio cards? wanna try some stuff going mobile, anybody doing that? Looking for some high capacity for my multiface/RME (takes 9-.12V, 2A) thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
That's a fairly brilliant idea. No need for fancy audio-quality wireless units, either. Phil On 4/26/13 1:19 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: From: katja katjavet...@gmail.com To: o...@onyx-ashanti.com onyxasha...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list Pd-list@iem.at; Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency Hi Onyx, What is your aim, do you want to entertain your (physically present) audience via smart phones instead of PA system? I have a similar quest pending: to send Pd audio from a wearable computer over wireless to PA system. Why not send FUDI to a box connected directly to the PA system? -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
Yeah, sending FUDI would be good. Or OSC. In case of synthesis, better send controller data instead of audio. In my case (sending processed acoustic audio input) that wouldn't work, but never mind. Katja On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Phil Stone pkst...@ucdavis.edu wrote: That's a fairly brilliant idea. No need for fancy audio-quality wireless units, either. Phil On 4/26/13 1:19 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: __**__ From: katja katjavet...@gmail.com To: o...@onyx-ashanti.com onyxasha...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list Pd-list@iem.at; Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency Hi Onyx, What is your aim, do you want to entertain your (physically present) audience via smart phones instead of PA system? I have a similar quest pending: to send Pd audio from a wearable computer over wireless to PA system. Why not send FUDI to a box connected directly to the PA system? -Jonathan __**_ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/** listinfo/pd-list http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list __**_ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/** listinfo/pd-list http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
On Apr 26, 2013 10:08 PM, katja katjavet...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Onyx, What is your aim, do you want to entertain your (physically present) audience via smart phones instead of PA system? Actually it a sonic space I want to explore. To play to people on their own personal bionic ear. Click and listen. The scope for experimentation intrigues me. Gestural binaural processing will be fun. I have a similar quest pending: to send Pd audio from a wearable computer over wireless to PA system. It's simpler than your purpose (because it does not involve an internet browser), but still complicated enough. So far I've learned that UDP is the preferred protocol for real time audio transmission, because it can go one way without the time-consuming error-checking and recovery. I use UDP with the new wireless system I put together and it completely overhauled my latency. I think the new HTML 5 components for real-time audio will work since they are also primed for VoIP. I am also tweaking this shout cast server to buffer maybe 2-3kbps so I can try for a hoped for 100-300ms latency. I think it's just a matter of tweaking a few things. I am looking into possibly using mp3streamout to stream directly into a stream input in the browser itself, without any other code. I don't know how yet but everything I read makes me believe it is very doable to get 50 stable, low latency 128kbps mp3 streams at 1000ms or less. Smart phones only do wireless, and wireless suffers a lot from packet loss, and packet loss must be concealed with clever dsp routines. Besides that, there is the (in this case relatively minor) issue of clock drift between two sound card clocks. Even if you send audio between two computers with [udpsend~] / [udpreceive~] over an ad hoc (point to point) wireless network you'll notice these issues. Just try it with two laptops and you'll see what I mean to say (here's how to set up ad hoc wireless network: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Adhoc). At this point, I'd rather have crackly-fast low quality sound, than ok-3 second lag-sound. Which of the audio network able objects work without a receive object? Still I think that ad hoc networking would be the way to go for low latency local wireless connection. It would not work with regular internet browsers though. A yet to design (Pd or Jack based) app would be required at the receiving end, which does packet concealment and clock drift compensation. About clock drift compensation, Miller Puckette had a hint a while ago, very probably referring to this article: http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/papers/adapt-resamp.pdf I will check that out. Thank you. Hope you are well. Onyx Katja On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 4:14 PM, o...@onyx-ashanti.com onyxasha...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings! I hope all is well with you. I wanted to ask if i might gain some of your insight on a project i am undertaking. I am currently attempting to stream my audio into html5 capable web browsers of smartphones. i have created a local network and installed nginx as my webserver. i and a friend got everything working with the oggcast~ and mp3cast~ objects and the icecast 2 server, but the latency was horrific-5-15seconds. I would like to investigate the idea of taking advantage of the plugin-less nature of these modern fast browsers and pipe the audio directly into it as directly as possible the same way voip works but lower bandwidth and only one way. I see that udpsend~ can do alot of what i think i want, but i am confused as to how i might connect it with the audio socket in the client browser (if socket is even the right term). Any insight would be greatly appreciated. and if i get it working, as before, i will document the findings in a step by step once it works. thank you. cheers! Onyx -- www.onyx-ashanti.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
Why not send FUDI to a box connected directly to the PA system? The sound space is the headphone s.I want to use the digital sonic space to play in live. And there Afr so many smartphones in circulation that it is viable as a presentation platform now. And if it isn't. I can always connect to a speaker system normally. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency
From: katja katjavet...@gmail.com To: Phil Stone pkst...@ucdavis.edu Cc: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com; pd-list Pd-list@iem.at Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency Yeah, sending FUDI would be good. Or OSC. In case of synthesis, better send controller data instead of audio. In my case (sending processed acoustic audio input) that wouldn't work, but never mind. Btw-- are you sending compressed or uncompressed audio? Katja On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Phil Stone pkst...@ucdavis.edu wrote: That's a fairly brilliant idea. No need for fancy audio-quality wireless units, either. Phil On 4/26/13 1:19 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: From: katja katjavet...@gmail.com To: o...@onyx-ashanti.com onyxasha...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list Pd-list@iem.at; Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [PD] direct connection from pd to webrowser, low latency Hi Onyx, What is your aim, do you want to entertain your (physically present) audience via smart phones instead of PA system? I have a similar quest pending: to send Pd audio from a wearable computer over wireless to PA system. Why not send FUDI to a box connected directly to the PA system? -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
