Re: [PD] reading tables indices with liner interpoation
[line ] with arguments to make it smoother 1 initial value 2 time grain in milliseconds check line help is that what you are looking for ? 2013/10/5 peiman khosravi peimankhosr...@gmail.com: I'm trying to figure out if there is an object to read table indices with linear interpolation? Other than linear_path (Gem). Or perhaps there is a simpler way of doing it? Many Thanks Peiman www.peimankhosravi.co.uk || RSS Feed || Concert News ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] reading tables indices with liner interpoation
Hello, Thanks for the reply. The thing is that I need to get discrete values to write to another table. So if I input 0.5 I want to get the exact mean of the first and second array elements. I guess it could be done manually in an abstract, but it'd probably be much slower. Thanks Peiman *www.peimankhosravi.co.uk || RSS Feedhttp://peimankhosravi.co.uk/miscposts.rss || Concert News http://spectralkimia.wordpress.com/* On 5 October 2013 08:39, Py Fave pyf...@gmail.com wrote: [line ] with arguments to make it smoother 1 initial value 2 time grain in milliseconds check line help is that what you are looking for ? 2013/10/5 peiman khosravi peimankhosr...@gmail.com: I'm trying to figure out if there is an object to read table indices with linear interpolation? Other than linear_path (Gem). Or perhaps there is a simpler way of doing it? Many Thanks Peiman www.peimankhosravi.co.uk || RSS Feed || Concert News ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] reading tables indices with liner interpoation
On 05/10/13 15:52, peiman khosravi wrote: Hello, Thanks for the reply. The thing is that I need to get discrete values to write to another table. So if I input 0.5 I want to get the exact mean of the first and second array elements. I guess it could be done manually in an abstract, but it'd probably be much slower. why not use the [linear_path] object you mentioned, if you want to avoid doing the calculations directly??? there is no reason for another external to do the same job as an already existing one. Simon ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] Radium 1.9.31 released for Linux
Radium 1.9.31 is a big release with many new features and bug fixes. 1.9.31 is the first release with Pd embedded. Pd embedded in Radium has got approximately the same features as Max for Ableton Live. (https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/) Screenshot: http://folk.uio.no/ksvalast/radiumpd.png Video 1: http://folk.uio.no/ksvalast/radium_pd.ogv Video 2: http://folk.uio.no/ksvalast/radium-pd-invertnote.ogv A windows version will be released later. Radium homepage: http://users.notam02.no/~kjetism/radium/ Most important changes 1.9.30 - 1.9.31: * New demo song: BlowFish! Made by www.magnetophon.nl * Save hashmap elements in sorted order so that songs can more easily be compared textually * Menu entry to show name of all included pd externals * Help menu options to edit keybindings and menues * Song comment dialog * Fix Switch Window Configuration menu option * Removed Error. y2=window-height: ... error. Just print to stderr instead. * Removed the Something strange just happened in the function Blt_markVisible warning (print to stderr instead) * Option to set number of scrolls per second. Scrolling too often can be tiresome for the eyes. * Make it easier to connect objects and see connections in the mixer, plus adjust object sizes * Patchbay sound object * Fix crash loading Soundfonts in the Fluidsynth and Sampler instrument * Show stars around filename if theres unsaved data * When quitting or loading, only ask sure/yes/no if edited since last save. * Change Set Patch For Track to Set Instrument For Track in the instruments menu. The word patch should not be exposed to the user anymore. * Be able to load files with DOS char set * Changed internal radium block size to 64 (similar to Pd) * Sending note events between sound objects (green lines) * Enable undo for on/off effect controllers * Pd extended is included as a sound object. 921 externals are included. GUI is working. Several instances is working. Can be used to write both audio effects and note effects. * Fix qt paths on Archlinux (Javafant/archlinux) * Many minor bug fixes ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] reading tables indices with liner interpoation
That's really nice. Thanks very much indeed. Best, Peiman *www.peimankhosravi.co.uk || RSS Feedhttp://peimankhosravi.co.uk/miscposts.rss || Concert News http://spectralkimia.wordpress.com/* On 5 October 2013 11:44, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote: On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 12:23:00AM +0100, peiman khosravi wrote: I'm trying to figure out if there is an object to read table indices with linear interpolation? Other than linear_path (Gem). Or perhaps there is a simpler way of doing it? I made one as an abstraction some time ago, it's attached. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] reading tables indices with liner interpoation
I want the patch to have a minimum requirement for installing complex libraries of objects. But if it comes to it I'll use it for sure. Thanks Peiman *www.peimankhosravi.co.uk || RSS Feedhttp://peimankhosravi.co.uk/miscposts.rss || Concert News http://spectralkimia.wordpress.com/* On 5 October 2013 09:33, Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/10/13 15:52, peiman khosravi wrote: Hello, Thanks for the reply. The thing is that I need to get discrete values to write to another table. So if I input 0.5 I want to get the exact mean of the first and second array elements. I guess it could be done manually in an abstract, but it'd probably be much slower. why not use the [linear_path] object you mentioned, if you want to avoid doing the calculations directly??? there is no reason for another external to do the same job as an already existing one. Simon __**_ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/** listinfo/pd-list http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [biquad~] as cyclone's [allpass~]?
but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's). cheers 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com You only need one delay line for the allpass. feedforward = input * -gain feedback = delayout * gain delayin = input + feedback output = delayout + feedforward http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right? cheers 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter. Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines. seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? cheers 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and Q parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [biquad~] as max's phaseshift? (was [biquad~] as cyclone's [allpass~]?)
Anyway, next on my list is finding out how to implement max's [phaseshift~], which is also an allpass filter. There's no Pd clone for it so it seems, right? Well, it doesn't really what it is other than a 2nd order filter. From that I could think you can generate it with [biquad~], but the phase response given in phaseshift's help file suggest otherwise. any contributions welcome thanks a lot 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's). cheers 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com You only need one delay line for the allpass. feedforward = input * -gain feedback = delayout * gain delayin = input + feedback output = delayout + feedforward http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right? cheers 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter. Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines. seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? cheers 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and Q parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [biquad~] as cyclone's [allpass~]?
That means cyclone's allpass~ is not done properly. Why not do it the standard and more efficient way? When it comes time to do dozens of allpasses it will make a difference. On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.comwrote: but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's). cheers 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com You only need one delay line for the allpass. feedforward = input * -gain feedback = delayout * gain delayin = input + feedback output = delayout + feedforward http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right? cheers 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter. Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines. seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? cheers 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and Q parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [biquad~] as cyclone's [allpass~]?
i dont think there is one way or proper way of doing this, and it is a general form, from an equation you can find in other references. So, I don't know why, but Max/Cyclone's allpass use this one: y(n) = -g x(n) + x(n)-(DR/1000) + g y(n)-(DR/1000) 2013/10/5 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com That means cyclone's allpass~ is not done properly. Why not do it the standard and more efficient way? When it comes time to do dozens of allpasses it will make a difference. On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.comwrote: but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's). cheers 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com You only need one delay line for the allpass. feedforward = input * -gain feedback = delayout * gain delayin = input + feedback output = delayout + feedforward http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right? cheers 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter. Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines. seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? cheers 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and Q parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [biquad~] as max's phaseshift? (was [biquad~] as cyclone's [allpass~]?)
the phase response given in phaseshift's help file suggest otherwise. it's more like the response from miller's H14 example... So I guess you can have a 2nd order one (lie phaseshift) by putting two of these together, right? And I suspect it doesn't really need to have anything to do biquad just for being 2nd order, huh? cheers 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com Anyway, next on my list is finding out how to implement max's [phaseshift~], which is also an allpass filter. There's no Pd clone for it so it seems, right? Well, it doesn't really what it is other than a 2nd order filter. From that I could think you can generate it with [biquad~], but the phase response given in phaseshift's help file suggest otherwise. any contributions welcome thanks a lot 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's). cheers 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com You only need one delay line for the allpass. feedforward = input * -gain feedback = delayout * gain delayin = input + feedback output = delayout + feedforward http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right? cheers 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter. Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines. seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? cheers 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and Q parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Legal restrictions for apps
please do! I would gladly test it out with some of my apps It would remove a bunch of this While we are on the subject does anyone on here have Supercollider working on IOS? I have a version working but the whole fear of selling it issue unfortunately for me has IMHO limited that lists willingness to help me get a working version on my ipad i know that is OT but it's related in my opinion. I want Pure Data Supercollider and csound to work on my IOS devices to to make a million dollars in the app store but to make art pp From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [pd-list-boun...@iem.at] on behalf of Dan Wilcox [danomat...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 1:42 AM To: i go bananas Cc: pd-list@iem.at List Subject: Re: [PD] Legal restrictions for apps Ok. I'll make a patch for it if no one else does ... maybe in a few days. On Oct 5, 2013, at 1:41 PM, i go bananas hard@gmail.commailto:hard@gmail.com wrote: just to clarify, Shahrokh Yadegari, IRCAM, and the JMax developers, ALL agreed with the switch to LGPL license. so AFAIK, the 'GPL' claim in the source code is still there simply because no-one has changed it. On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.commailto:danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Well, it seems like all the authors agree and there's already an LGPL license. I only brought up all of this due to the inconsistency between whats actually there in the source files. I'd love for that to just be changed and we all move on. It's not like this is a huge patent / money maker thing. If being anal and bringing this to light truly means I *can't* use it in the long run, well than I should have done what most everyone else does in these situations: use it and keep my mouth shut :P. We know what is allowed / not allowed by Apple, don't need a lawyer for that. On Oct 5, 2013, at 4:22 AM, pd-list-requ...@iem.atmailto:pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: On 10/04/2013 01:44 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: One (not so minor) note on this... expr is copyright IRCAM (hahrokh Yadegari was working for IRCAM at the time) and is also included in Max, so it might be sbject to agreements between IRCAM and Cycling '74. I was under the impression it was under GPL, not LGPL. I just looked and saw that, indeed, the LICENSE.txt file says LGPL and the expr source code print out GPL on startup. The reason I think it's actually GPL is that that is how IRCAM released it -- as part of jMAX, years ago. The current code is based on that original code. Although it was extensively reworked by Shahrokh, I presume the GPL terms under which he was working required him to release the result under GPL too. So for the moment at least, I'm afraid FUD rules. My vote would be to keep all the original GPL licenses in Pd vanilla's expr, and to remove the LGPL readme. GPL was the licensed under which expr was originally released, so we can reasonably assume all the copyright holders agreed to that license. If the consensus was that it should be changed in order to accomodate Pure Data builds on IOS, then everyone who wants to use expr on IOS should pool their resources and hire a lawyer to explain what is and isn't allowed under the LGPL and Apple's TOS. The lawyer should also find out if it was indeed possible to change the license to LGPL in light of what Miller brings up about the original licensing. That's two unknowns wrt LGPL expr, and they won't be solved by revising the source nor IANAL discussions. Best, Jonathan Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.comhttp://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.comhttp://robotcowboy.com/ ___ Pd-list@iem.atmailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.comhttp://danomatika.com robotcowboy.comhttp://robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Legal restrictions for apps
Hmm... Looking back in the git repo i saw: commit 42f3e5f8dbc60ad644e9f8a1c5b61d1847e19470 Author: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu Date: Thu Nov 3 11:40:35 2011 -0700 change expr~ source to LGPL license (with IRCAMs permission :) I had quite forgotten about this (and still can't remember this ever having happened) but here's the e-mail I got from Shahrokh: On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 02:50:53AM -0700, Shahrokh Yadegari wrote: Dear Max and Miller, I got news from IRCAM that they are willing to release expr code on LGPL. Will that solve the current licensing problems? Max, could you communicate to the list and let me know what they think about this. I hope this helps. thanks, Shahrokh So I think we're in the clear (although I hope Shahrokh kept the mail from IRCAM authorizing this!) I'll go on and change the source over here so that it appears in the git repo. (This will take some time as I first want to merge my 0.45 fixes into 'master'.) cheers Miller On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 02:41:48PM +0900, i go bananas wrote: just to clarify, Shahrokh Yadegari, IRCAM, and the JMax developers, ALL agreed with the switch to LGPL license. so AFAIK, the 'GPL' claim in the source code is still there simply because no-one has changed it. On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Well, it seems like all the authors agree and there's already an LGPL license. I only brought up all of this due to the inconsistency between whats actually there in the source files. I'd love for that to just be changed and we all move on. It's not like this is a huge patent / money maker thing. If being anal and bringing this to light truly means I *can't* use it in the long run, well than I should have done what most everyone else does in these situations: use it and keep my mouth shut :P. We know what is allowed / not allowed by Apple, don't need a lawyer for that. On Oct 5, 2013, at 4:22 AM, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: On 10/04/2013 01:44 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: One (not so minor) note on this... expr is copyright IRCAM (hahrokh Yadegari was working for IRCAM at the time) and is also included in Max, so it might be sbject to agreements between IRCAM and Cycling '74. I was under the impression it was under GPL, not LGPL. I just looked and saw that, indeed, the LICENSE.txt file says LGPL and the expr source code print out GPL on startup. The reason I think it's actually GPL is that that is how IRCAM released it -- as part of jMAX, years ago. The current code is based on that original code. Although it was extensively reworked by Shahrokh, I presume the GPL terms under which he was working required him to release the result under GPL too. So for the moment at least, I'm afraid FUD rules. My vote would be to keep all the original GPL licenses in Pd vanilla's expr, and to remove the LGPL readme. GPL was the licensed under which expr was originally released, so we can reasonably assume all the copyright holders agreed to that license. If the consensus was that it should be changed in order to accomodate Pure Data builds on IOS, then everyone who wants to use expr on IOS should pool their resources and hire a lawyer to explain what is and isn't allowed under the LGPL and Apple's TOS. The lawyer should also find out if it was indeed possible to change the license to LGPL in light of what Miller brings up about the original licensing. That's two unknowns wrt LGPL expr, and they won't be solved by revising the source nor IANAL discussions. Best, Jonathan Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Legal restrictions for apps
OK... done and pushed to git repo. cheers M On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 12:18:23PM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote: Hmm... Looking back in the git repo i saw: commit 42f3e5f8dbc60ad644e9f8a1c5b61d1847e19470 Author: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu Date: Thu Nov 3 11:40:35 2011 -0700 change expr~ source to LGPL license (with IRCAMs permission :) I had quite forgotten about this (and still can't remember this ever having happened) but here's the e-mail I got from Shahrokh: On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 02:50:53AM -0700, Shahrokh Yadegari wrote: Dear Max and Miller, I got news from IRCAM that they are willing to release expr code on LGPL. Will that solve the current licensing problems? Max, could you communicate to the list and let me know what they think about this. I hope this helps. thanks, Shahrokh So I think we're in the clear (although I hope Shahrokh kept the mail from IRCAM authorizing this!) I'll go on and change the source over here so that it appears in the git repo. (This will take some time as I first want to merge my 0.45 fixes into 'master'.) cheers Miller ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [biquad~] as cyclone's [allpass~]?
on curtis roads' computer music tutorial, page 418, it shows the same formula, but the figure of the design seems to contradict it. I'm confused. I don't seem to get the same result with one delay line. maybe if you send me a patch that sounds the same as cyclone's allpass I can check it. cheers 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com i dont think there is one way or proper way of doing this, and it is a general form, from an equation you can find in other references. So, I don't know why, but Max/Cyclone's allpass use this one: y(n) = -g x(n) + x(n)-(DR/1000) + g y(n)-(DR/1000) 2013/10/5 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com That means cyclone's allpass~ is not done properly. Why not do it the standard and more efficient way? When it comes time to do dozens of allpasses it will make a difference. On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's). cheers 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com You only need one delay line for the allpass. feedforward = input * -gain feedback = delayout * gain delayin = input + feedback output = delayout + feedforward http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right? cheers 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter. Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines. seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? cheers 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and Q parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [biquad~] as max's phaseshift? (was [biquad~] as cyclone's [allpass~]?)
From looking at the helpfile for [phaseshift~], this sounds very much like the all-pass filter from Robert Bristow-Johnson's EQ Cookbook. You can calculate the biquad coefficients for it like this: w0 = 2*pi*frequency_in_Hz / sample_rate alpha = sin(w0)*sinh(ln(2)/2*Q*w0/sin(w0)) fb1 = 2*cos(w0) / (1+alpha) fb2 = (-1+alpha) / (1+alpha) ff1 = -fb2 ff2 = -fb1 ff3 = 1 .mmb On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.comwrote: the phase response given in phaseshift's help file suggest otherwise. it's more like the response from miller's H14 example... So I guess you can have a 2nd order one (lie phaseshift) by putting two of these together, right? And I suspect it doesn't really need to have anything to do biquad just for being 2nd order, huh? cheers 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com Anyway, next on my list is finding out how to implement max's [phaseshift~], which is also an allpass filter. There's no Pd clone for it so it seems, right? Well, it doesn't really what it is other than a 2nd order filter. From that I could think you can generate it with [biquad~], but the phase response given in phaseshift's help file suggest otherwise. any contributions welcome thanks a lot 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's). cheers 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com You only need one delay line for the allpass. feedforward = input * -gain feedback = delayout * gain delayin = input + feedback output = delayout + feedforward http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right? cheers 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter. Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines. seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? cheers 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and Q parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [biquad~] as max's phaseshift? (was [biquad~] as cyclone's [allpass~]?)
hi mmb, thanks for showing up :) h, my problem was that the phase response graph generated from your Pd patch based on RBJ looks different than the one from max's phaseshift. But it just occurred to me that one thing about it might only be a matter of normalizing it and displaying in the same way. For example, your patch gives us a drop from 0 to -1 and then from 1 to 0, while phaseshift in Max is from 0 to -2pi continuously. I'm now considering that both behaviours could be related, only that your patch wraps it around -1 back to 1. What do you think? But even so, there's also the issue of getting the Q parameter to behave in the same way. Max's phaseshift, when set to Q = 0.1 and freq = 4KHz will give you a linear drop from 0 to -2pi. Now, I can't seem to get that based on RBJ's cookbook formulas and your patch. But then, another thing I haven't thought of might be a difference in the scale plot... One way or another, the Q parameter seems off. So, as you can see, there are these plotting differences, but I know what you mean, that is what I was suspecting too, it sure looks like the same thing at a first glance, meaning you can get to it from a biquad coefficient perspective. The problem is that max's phaseshift isn't very clear about what it really is, other than saying it is a second order filter. But that doesn't have to imply it is the same as a second order biquad, does it? Thanks 2013/10/5 Mike Moser-Booth mmoserbo...@gmail.com From looking at the helpfile for [phaseshift~], this sounds very much like the all-pass filter from Robert Bristow-Johnson's EQ Cookbook. You can calculate the biquad coefficients for it like this: w0 = 2*pi*frequency_in_Hz / sample_rate alpha = sin(w0)*sinh(ln(2)/2*Q*w0/sin(w0)) fb1 = 2*cos(w0) / (1+alpha) fb2 = (-1+alpha) / (1+alpha) ff1 = -fb2 ff2 = -fb1 ff3 = 1 .mmb On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: the phase response given in phaseshift's help file suggest otherwise. it's more like the response from miller's H14 example... So I guess you can have a 2nd order one (lie phaseshift) by putting two of these together, right? And I suspect it doesn't really need to have anything to do biquad just for being 2nd order, huh? cheers 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com Anyway, next on my list is finding out how to implement max's [phaseshift~], which is also an allpass filter. There's no Pd clone for it so it seems, right? Well, it doesn't really what it is other than a 2nd order filter. From that I could think you can generate it with [biquad~], but the phase response given in phaseshift's help file suggest otherwise. any contributions welcome thanks a lot 2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's). cheers 2013/10/3 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com You only need one delay line for the allpass. feedforward = input * -gain feedback = delayout * gain delayin = input + feedback output = delayout + feedforward http://www.spinsemi.com/knowledge_base/effects.html#Reverberation On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right? cheers 2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter. Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines. seems that it is related to a comb filter, right? cheers 2013/10/2 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~. I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb. On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and Q parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such). One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects? thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___
[PD] Sound on sound delay
Does anyone have an example if an eno-esque sound on sound delay system I can gander at and tweak? Patrick Pagano B.S,M.F.A Asst. in Digital Art and Science Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida (352) 294-2020 On Oct 5, 2013, at 3:19 PM, Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu wrote: Hmm... Looking back in the git repo i saw: commit 42f3e5f8dbc60ad644e9f8a1c5b61d1847e19470 Author: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu Date: Thu Nov 3 11:40:35 2011 -0700 change expr~ source to LGPL license (with IRCAMs permission :) I had quite forgotten about this (and still can't remember this ever having happened) but here's the e-mail I got from Shahrokh: On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 02:50:53AM -0700, Shahrokh Yadegari wrote: Dear Max and Miller, I got news from IRCAM that they are willing to release expr code on LGPL. Will that solve the current licensing problems? Max, could you communicate to the list and let me know what they think about this. I hope this helps. thanks, Shahrokh So I think we're in the clear (although I hope Shahrokh kept the mail from IRCAM authorizing this!) I'll go on and change the source over here so that it appears in the git repo. (This will take some time as I first want to merge my 0.45 fixes into 'master'.) cheers Miller On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 02:41:48PM +0900, i go bananas wrote: just to clarify, Shahrokh Yadegari, IRCAM, and the JMax developers, ALL agreed with the switch to LGPL license. so AFAIK, the 'GPL' claim in the source code is still there simply because no-one has changed it. On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Well, it seems like all the authors agree and there's already an LGPL license. I only brought up all of this due to the inconsistency between whats actually there in the source files. I'd love for that to just be changed and we all move on. It's not like this is a huge patent / money maker thing. If being anal and bringing this to light truly means I *can't* use it in the long run, well than I should have done what most everyone else does in these situations: use it and keep my mouth shut :P. We know what is allowed / not allowed by Apple, don't need a lawyer for that. On Oct 5, 2013, at 4:22 AM, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: On 10/04/2013 01:44 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: One (not so minor) note on this... expr is copyright IRCAM (hahrokh Yadegari was working for IRCAM at the time) and is also included in Max, so it might be sbject to agreements between IRCAM and Cycling '74. I was under the impression it was under GPL, not LGPL. I just looked and saw that, indeed, the LICENSE.txt file says LGPL and the expr source code print out GPL on startup. The reason I think it's actually GPL is that that is how IRCAM released it -- as part of jMAX, years ago. The current code is based on that original code. Although it was extensively reworked by Shahrokh, I presume the GPL terms under which he was working required him to release the result under GPL too. So for the moment at least, I'm afraid FUD rules. My vote would be to keep all the original GPL licenses in Pd vanilla's expr, and to remove the LGPL readme. GPL was the licensed under which expr was originally released, so we can reasonably assume all the copyright holders agreed to that license. If the consensus was that it should be changed in order to accomodate Pure Data builds on IOS, then everyone who wants to use expr on IOS should pool their resources and hire a lawyer to explain what is and isn't allowed under the LGPL and Apple's TOS. The lawyer should also find out if it was indeed possible to change the license to LGPL in light of what Miller brings up about the original licensing. That's two unknowns wrt LGPL expr, and they won't be solved by revising the source nor IANAL discussions. Best, Jonathan Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Legal restrictions for apps
Awesome, thank you. I'm glad we could figure it out. I remember checking a few times and we discussed this in libpd. I kept getting confused by the different licenses. On Oct 6, 2013, at 3:55 AM, Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu wrote: OK... done and pushed to git repo. cheers M On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 12:18:23PM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote: Hmm... Looking back in the git repo i saw: commit 42f3e5f8dbc60ad644e9f8a1c5b61d1847e19470 Author: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu Date: Thu Nov 3 11:40:35 2011 -0700 change expr~ source to LGPL license (with IRCAMs permission :) I had quite forgotten about this (and still can't remember this ever having happened) but here's the e-mail I got from Shahrokh: On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 02:50:53AM -0700, Shahrokh Yadegari wrote: Dear Max and Miller, I got news from IRCAM that they are willing to release expr code on LGPL. Will that solve the current licensing problems? Max, could you communicate to the list and let me know what they think about this. I hope this helps. thanks, Shahrokh So I think we're in the clear (although I hope Shahrokh kept the mail from IRCAM authorizing this!) I'll go on and change the source over here so that it appears in the git repo. (This will take some time as I first want to merge my 0.45 fixes into 'master'.) cheers Miller Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Legal restrictions for apps
AFAIK, [expr]/[expr~] are not built into any libpd produced binaries, nor any other GPL/LGPL components. The user has to opt into those by adding them to their project. So you should be good. On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: If your using libpd, you can simple remove the pure-data/extra/expr~ folder and com[ile it without expr. On Oct 3, 2013, at 10:58 PM, Tony Hillerson tony.hiller...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, great. That's helpful everyone, thank you. -- Tony Hillerson On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 at 18:35 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote: My approach with PdParty so far is: - GPL source code is incompatible with the Apple App Store due to the static linking requirement which means you cannot distribute GPL libs as dynamic libs which can be updated or replaced by the user - GPL patches are fine, they are text files which are not compiled into your app binary so can be freely replaced, I expose all of the GPL patches I use to the user so they can modify or update them to satisfy the distribution requirement of the GPL - I leave out [expr] [expr~] for now. The license in the expr src folder is LGPL, but the license in the source headers is GPL and the following is printed to console when first loading the external: expr, expr~, fexpr~ version 0.4 under GNU General Public License . I will leave it out until those parts of the code are explicitly changed. If this has already happened, then we need to merge in those changes to libpd. So far, as Miller suggests, I've been replacing [expr] with regular math objects. Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Legal restrictions for apps
Please pardon my ignorance, but would it be possible to publish an app through XYZ store and in case XYZ store does not have ability to also include source that the project author host such source on its own page and have the link to it embedded inside the app? On Oct 6, 2013 12:09 AM, Rich E reakina...@gmail.com wrote: AFAIK, [expr]/[expr~] are not built into any libpd produced binaries, nor any other GPL/LGPL components. The user has to opt into those by adding them to their project. So you should be good. On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: If your using libpd, you can simple remove the pure-data/extra/expr~ folder and com[ile it without expr. On Oct 3, 2013, at 10:58 PM, Tony Hillerson tony.hiller...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, great. That's helpful everyone, thank you. -- Tony Hillerson On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 at 18:35 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote: My approach with PdParty so far is: - GPL source code is incompatible with the Apple App Store due to the static linking requirement which means you cannot distribute GPL libs as dynamic libs which can be updated or replaced by the user - GPL patches are fine, they are text files which are not compiled into your app binary so can be freely replaced, I expose all of the GPL patches I use to the user so they can modify or update them to satisfy the distribution requirement of the GPL - I leave out [expr] [expr~] for now. The license in the expr src folder is LGPL, but the license in the source headers is GPL and the following is printed to console when first loading the external: expr, expr~, fexpr~ version 0.4 under GNU General Public License . I will leave it out until those parts of the code are explicitly changed. If this has already happened, then we need to merge in those changes to libpd. So far, as Miller suggests, I've been replacing [expr] with regular math objects. Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
