[PD] Analog square wave?
Dear List, I need a square wave to use as an LFO in a ring mod patch. Though i could simply use [expr~ $v10.5], I m wondering if I could get a smoother square wave. I tried to use a bandlimited square wave, but I don't have enough harmonics and the top of the wave isn't flat enough. Incidentally, what do analog square waves from old synths look like? Anyway, I think i want a square wave with no jumps between 0 and 1. Cheers! Pierre. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
Don't know about real analog squares, probably way more complex, but attached is my simplistic approach: a soft-clipped triangle wave gr, Tim 2012/2/6 Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com Dear List, I need a square wave to use as an LFO in a ring mod patch. Though i could simply use [expr~ $v10.5], I m wondering if I could get a smoother square wave. I tried to use a bandlimited square wave, but I don't have enough harmonics and the top of the wave isn't flat enough. Incidentally, what do analog square waves from old synths look like? Anyway, I think i want a square wave with no jumps between 0 and 1. Cheers! Pierre. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list #N canvas 78 164 512 433 10; #X obj 47 138 *~ 2; #X obj 46 185 tanh~; #X obj 66 324 metro 100; #X obj 66 306 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 1 1; #X floatatom 47 20 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 143 123 hsl 128 15 2.8 20 0 0 empty empty empty -2 -8 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 5000 1; #X obj 47 41 phasor~ 299; #X obj 46 74 expr~ 4*(if($v10.5 \, 1-$v1 \, $v1))-1; #X floatatom 140 141 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 157 104 smooth - sharp; #X obj 66 286 loadbang; #X text 98 186 soft-clip; #X text 265 73 make triangle; #N canvas 0 0 450 300 (subpatch) 0; #X array vis 400 float 1; #A 0 0.37 0.999895 0.999823 0.999703 0.999501 0.999161 0.998591 0.997634 0.996029 0.993345 0.988866 0.981428 0.969177 0.949263 0.917576 0.868835 0.797626 0.70106 0.582534 0.453636 0.330669 0.227176 0.148869 0.0942622 0.0583135 0.0355367 0.0214535 0.012877 0.0077022 0.00459728 0.00274053 0.00163248 0.000971973 0.000578582 0.000344336 0.000204921 0.000121951 7.25687e-05 4.31836e-05 2.56896e-05 1.52886e-05 9.08971e-06 5.42402e-06 3.21865e-06 1.90735e-06 1.13249e-06 6.85453e-07 4.17233e-07 2.38419e-07 1.49012e-07 8.9407e-08 5.96046e-08 2.98023e-08 2.98023e-08 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.98023e-08 2.98023e-08 5.96046e-08 8.9407e-08 1.78814e-07 2.68221e-07 4.76837e-07 7.7486e-07 1.3411e-06 2.23517e-06 3.75509e-06 6.28829e-06 1.05798e-05 1.7792e-05 2.98917e-05 5.02467e-05 8.44598e-05 0.000141919 0.000238508 0.000400782 0.000673354 0.00113115 0.0018996 0.0031884 0.00534692 0.0089536 0.0149566 0.0248832 0.041123 0.0672309 0.108046 0.169147 0.254925 0.365089 0.491457 0.618927 0.731877 0.821029 0.885188 0.928354 0.956096 0.973403 0.984002 0.990419 0.994277 0.996587 0.997966 0.998789 0.999279 0.999571 0.999745 0.999848 0.1 0.46 0.68 0.81 0.89 0.93 0.96 0.98 0.99 0.99 1 1 1 0.99 0.99 0.98 0.96 0.94 0.9 0.83 0.71 0.51 0.18 0.999863 0.99977 0.999613 0.99935 0.998908 0.998166 0.996921 0.994836 0.991352 0.985552 0.975954 0.960238 0.934936 0.895289 0.835727 0.751681 0.643004 0.517308 0.389382 0.275063 0.184184 0.118426 0.0740147 0.0454008 0.0275201 0.0165595 0.00991961 0.00592613 0.00353462 0.00210616 0.00125426 0.000746697 0.00012 0.000264496 0.000157386 9.36687e-05 5.57303e-05 3.317e-05 1.97291e-05 1.17421e-05 6.97374e-06 4.14252e-06 2.47359e-06 1.46031e-06 8.64267e-07 5.06639e-07 2.98023e-07 1.78814e-07 1.19209e-07 5.96046e-08 2.98023e-08 2.98023e-08 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.98023e-08 2.98023e-08 5.96046e-08 8.9407e-08 1.19209e-07 2.08616e-07 3.57628e-07 6.25849e-07 1.01328e-06 1.72853e-06 2.89083e-06 4.88758e-06 8.19564e-06 1.37985e-05 2.31564e-05 3.89218e-05 6.54161e-05 0.000109971 0.000184774 0.00031051 0.000521749 0.000876546 0.00147229 0.00247189 0.00414738 0.00695062 0.0116264 0.0193864 0.032157 0.0528865 0.0857944 0.136234 0.20953 0.308191 0.428146 0.557186 0.678943 0.780415 0.856591 0.909408 0.944044 0.965933 0.979446 0.987668 0.992625 0.995599 0.997377 0.998437 0.99907 0.999446 0.99967 0.999804 0.999883 0.31 0.59 0.75 0.85 0.91 0.95 0.97 0.98 0.99 0.99 1 1 0.99 0.99 0.98 0.97 0.95 0.92 0.87 0.78 0.62 0.37 0.999894 0.999822 0.9997 0.999496 0.999154 0.998578 0.997613 0.995995 0.993287 0.98877 0.981269 0.968917 0.948843 0.916917 0.867842 0.796221 0.699238 0.580421 0.451486 0.328752 0.225655 0.147773 0.0935241 0.0578387 0.0352404 0.0212721 0.0127672 0.00763613 0.0045577 0.00271693 0.00161839 0.000963598 0.000573575 0.000341356 0.000203133 0.000120878 7.19428e-05 4.27961e-05 2.5481e-05 1.51396e-05 9.0301e-06 5.36442e-06 3.18885e-06 1.90735e-06 1.13249e-06 6.85453e-07 3.8743e-07 2.38419e-07 1.49012e-07 8.9407e-08 5.96046e-08 2.98023e-08 2.98023e-08 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.98023e-08 2.98023e-08 5.96046e-08 8.9407e-08 1.78814e-07 2.68221e-07 4.76837e-07 8.04663e-07 1.3411e-06 2.23517e-06 3.78489e-06 6.34789e-06 1.06692e-05 1.7941e-05 3.016e-05 5.06938e-05 8.5175e-05 0.00014317 0.000240594 0.000404269 0.000679225 0.00114101 0.00191611 0.00321609 0.00539327 0.00903094 0.015085 0.0250947 0.0414666 0.062 0.108885; #X coords 0 1 399 -1 200 140 2 0 0; #X
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
In an analog synth the square wave has some distortion to it: the rise is not instantaneous and there is some overshoot of the peak too. Over the years this was minimized by using high slew rate amp circuits and the like so an old Moog pulse wave is less ideal in shape than a new one. For a digital square wave you would want to use band limiting to avoid alias artifacts which are quite severe for a square or sawtooth wave. As the frequency goes higher both of those waves will begin to look more like sine waves as the partials are filtered out. Pretty much every commercial digital synth and plugin uses anti-aliased waveforms. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I need a square wave to use as an LFO in a ring mod patch. Though i could simply use [expr~ $v10.5], I m wondering if I could get a smoother square wave. I tried to use a bandlimited square wave, but I don't have enough harmonics and the top of the wave isn't flat enough. Incidentally, what do analog square waves from old synths look like? Anyway, I think i want a square wave with no jumps between 0 and 1. Cheers! Pierre. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
* chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com [2012-02-06 15:49]: In an analog synth the square wave has some distortion to it: the rise is not instantaneous and there is some overshoot of the peak too. Over the years this was minimized by using high slew rate amp circuits and the like so an old Moog pulse wave is less ideal in shape than a new one. For a digital square wave you would want to use band limiting to avoid alias artifacts which are quite severe for a square or sawtooth wave. As the frequency goes higher both of those waves will begin to look more like sine waves as the partials are filtered out. Pretty much every commercial digital synth and plugin uses anti-aliased waveforms. out of interest Chris, do they use wavetables (possible of different lengths for different octaves) or internal oversampling a la Millers example in the doc patches? best, P On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I need a square wave to use as an LFO in a ring mod patch. Though i could simply use [expr~ $v10.5], I m wondering if I could get a smoother square wave. I tried to use a bandlimited square wave, but I don't have enough harmonics and the top of the wave isn't flat enough. Incidentally, what do analog square waves from old synths look like? Anyway, I think i want a square wave with no jumps between 0 and 1. Cheers! Pierre. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 09:43:29AM -0500, chris clepper wrote: In an analog synth the square wave has some distortion to it: the rise is not instantaneous and there is some overshoot of the peak too. Over the years this was minimized by using high slew rate amp circuits and the like so an old Moog pulse wave is less ideal in shape than a new one. For a digital square wave you would want to use band limiting to avoid alias artifacts which are quite severe for a square or sawtooth wave. As the frequency goes higher both of those waves will begin to look more like sine waves as the partials are filtered out. Pretty much every commercial digital synth and plugin uses anti-aliased waveforms. However when using this as a LOW frequency oscillator, I would simply ignore the literature on bandlimiting and go with a pure digital aliased wave full force! :) Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Peter Plessas ples...@mur.at wrote: For a digital square wave you would want to use band limiting to avoid alias artifacts which are quite severe for a square or sawtooth wave. As the frequency goes higher both of those waves will begin to look more like sine waves as the partials are filtered out. Pretty much every commercial digital synth and plugin uses anti-aliased waveforms. out of interest Chris, do they use wavetables (possible of different lengths for different octaves) or internal oversampling a la Millers example in the doc patches? I can't really speak for any manufacturers but it probably varies based on the hardware being used. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
something like this? http://vimeo.com/groups/puredata/videos/36172013 Am 06.02.2012 um 18:03 schrieb chris clepper: On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Peter Plessas ples...@mur.at wrote: For a digital square wave you would want to use band limiting to avoid alias artifacts which are quite severe for a square or sawtooth wave. As the frequency goes higher both of those waves will begin to look more like sine waves as the partials are filtered out. Pretty much every commercial digital synth and plugin uses anti-aliased waveforms. out of interest Chris, do they use wavetables (possible of different lengths for different octaves) or internal oversampling a la Millers example in the doc patches? I can't really speak for any manufacturers but it probably varies based on the hardware being used. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
Dear List, I need a square wave to use as an LFO in a ring mod patch. Though i could simply use [expr~ $v10.5], I m wondering if I could get a smoother square wave. I tried to use a bandlimited square wave, but I don't have enough harmonics and the top of the wave isn't flat enough. Incidentally, what do analog square waves from old synths look like? Anyway, I think i want a square wave with no jumps between 0 and 1. Cheers! Pierre. Do you think a wave file of an analog square could be helpful? -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
On Mon, 2012-02-06 at 17:56 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: However when using this as a LOW frequency oscillator, I would simply ignore the literature on bandlimiting and go with a pure digital aliased wave full force! :) Good practical advice... if you really start thinking about what is going to happen when you take a digital square wave and use it as a modulator on some other signal, probably by something evil and nonlinear like multiplying the signals together, you can give yourself a headache quite quickly! Just remember, one person's aliasing artifacts all over the spectrum is another person's gritty, trashy, beautiful dirt. Thanks, Bill Gribble ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
You can use [mrpeach/sqosc~] bandlimited to a low frequency as an LFO. Since [sqosc~] is slew-rate limited according to the bandwidth limit, the peaks are absolutely flat and there is no overshoot, and the transitions are smooth. Martin On 2012-02-06 09:43, chris clepper wrote: In an analog synth the square wave has some distortion to it: the rise is not instantaneous and there is some overshoot of the peak too. Over the years this was minimized by using high slew rate amp circuits and the like so an old Moog pulse wave is less ideal in shape than a new one. For a digital square wave you would want to use band limiting to avoid alias artifacts which are quite severe for a square or sawtooth wave. As the frequency goes higher both of those waves will begin to look more like sine waves as the partials are filtered out. Pretty much every commercial digital synth and plugin uses anti-aliased waveforms. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com mailto:pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I need a square wave to use as an LFO in a ring mod patch. Though i could simply use [expr~ $v10.5], I m wondering if I could get a smoother square wave. I tried to use a bandlimited square wave, but I don't have enough harmonics and the top of the wave isn't flat enough. Incidentally, what do analog square waves from old synths look like? Anyway, I think i want a square wave with no jumps between 0 and 1. Cheers! Pierre. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Analog square wave?
Thank you all for your advice. The plain digital square wave doesn't sound well (I use it as an LFO in a ring modulator. I've just added some partials to my bandlimited square wave and now it works ok. I'll try [sqosc~] though. Cheers, Pierre. 2012/2/6 Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca You can use [mrpeach/sqosc~] bandlimited to a low frequency as an LFO. Since [sqosc~] is slew-rate limited according to the bandwidth limit, the peaks are absolutely flat and there is no overshoot, and the transitions are smooth. Martin On 2012-02-06 09:43, chris clepper wrote: In an analog synth the square wave has some distortion to it: the rise is not instantaneous and there is some overshoot of the peak too. Over the years this was minimized by using high slew rate amp circuits and the like so an old Moog pulse wave is less ideal in shape than a new one. For a digital square wave you would want to use band limiting to avoid alias artifacts which are quite severe for a square or sawtooth wave. As the frequency goes higher both of those waves will begin to look more like sine waves as the partials are filtered out. Pretty much every commercial digital synth and plugin uses anti-aliased waveforms. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com mailto:pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Dear List, I need a square wave to use as an LFO in a ring mod patch. Though i could simply use [expr~ $v10.5], I m wondering if I could get a smoother square wave. I tried to use a bandlimited square wave, but I don't have enough harmonics and the top of the wave isn't flat enough. Incidentally, what do analog square waves from old synths look like? Anyway, I think i want a square wave with no jumps between 0 and 1. Cheers! Pierre. __**_ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/**listinfo/pd-listhttp://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list __**_ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/** listinfo/pd-list http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
